Carl in Michigan
Diamond Member
- Aug 15, 2016
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You have mo say in anythingSo your trans political then....I'm not a libertarian. Maybe you could call me a comservatarian, but I dont believe in open borders, legalizingcevery damn mind altering drug, legalizing abortion or prostitution.Yeah, and should never have any power over policy. But you fucking libertarian conservatives keep believing....What libertarians, or libertarian policies are in effect in Miami? Or Florida for that matter?You spent the last 6 or 7 comments defending "Libertarianism" and speaking for "libertarians" only to say "I'm not a libertarian" when I ask you a simple question??I am not a libertarian when it comes to building codes issues. Go find a libertarian message forum to argue with people. You said libertarians don't believe in building codes. They do believe in codes and those codes should from within the industry and would likely surpass government codes. You can probably find a national association of barber shops who thinks they can write professional codes for their industry better than government.Libertarians don't believe in the monolopy of force you moron...You just moved the goalposts. You said "libertarians don't believe in federal or state building codes. Now you say who will enforce building codes.Who enforces building codes??From the article.oh yea??Same here. Unstable ground, with the building already noted to have been slowly sinking.Sink holes crossed my mindJust look at these heroes risking their lives in an attempt to save complete strangers who may be trapped.
They are getting ready to attempt to drill through the roof of the parking garage, while standing in water...
Reportedly, building was known to be sinking...
Collapsed Miami beach condo tower hadn't been certified since 1981 when it was built and has been 'sinking into the ground since the NINETIES'
- Champlain Towers South in Surfside, Florida, was built in 1981 and hasn't been recertified since then
- Shimon Wdowinski, a professor in the Department of Earth and Environment at Florida International University, did a study on the building last year
- He found that it had been sinking 2mm a year since the 1990s into the ground
- Miami Dade Building Code states buildings only have to be certified every 40 years
- The Champlain Towers South Association hired an engineer to review structural and electrical updates ahead of its first certification
- It was also in the process of re-roofing when the building partially collapsed on Thursday
- Officials have no idea what caused the building to collapse yet
- There are now fears the rest of it will collapse soon, further reducing the chances of finding any survivors
- One person is dead, with 99 others linked to the building still missing
- Bruce Masia, a local building manager, said the roof renovation will be looked at
- He asked whether it put any additional weight on the building that it couldn't withstand
Collapsed Miami beach condo tower hadn't been certified since 1981
Champlain Towers South was completed in 1981 but hasn't been updated significantly since then. There are 136 condos inside and most belong to first-time homeowners.www.dailymail.co.uk
In this picture I previously posted, it shows the ground level has sunk about five or six feet. All of those white columns used to be underground in the parking garage below, and they now protrude through the ground level deck. The rebar has literally been ripped out of the ground level deck; you can see it hanging from column 72 on the left.
Florida is known for this problem with porous limestone and underground water issues.
That is a total fucking lie. Everyone believes in strong building codes.Prayers to those still trapped in the rubble and their families....
Seen a couple of encouraging stories....like how a guy walking his dog nearby heard a cry for help and got the attention of rescuers who saved the person.....hopefully there are more of these stories...
As for causes......my guess would be that it's a sediment problem....since there are claims it has been sinking since the 90's.....I heard the land the condos were built on was reclaimed marsh.....
“When we measure subsidence or when we see movement of the buildings, it’s worth checking why it happens,” Wdowinski said. “We cannot say what is the reason for that from the satellite images but we can say there was movement here.”
FIU professor: Collapsed Surfside building showed signs of subsidence in ‘90s
The area where a building partially collapsed in Surfside, Fla. showed signs of land subsidence in the 1990s, according to space-based radar data analyzed by an FIU professor.news.fiu.edu
I guess the reason I see some folks bringing up libertarianism is because libertarians don't believe in federal or state building codes....they believe the "free market" will ultimately do the right thing......and if they don't -- and you die, your relatives can sue.....but since lots of libertarians don't believe in a monopoly of force to enforce building codes; I don't see how they think any civil court decisions would be enforced either...
Well who enforces these building codes??
Surely not the government...
Why Libertarians Reject Government Building Codes and Licensing
Think government licensing stops buildings from falling down, restaurants poisoning diners and people driving on the wrong side of the road? It doesn’t. You do.discover.hubpages.com
In a libertarian society everyone connected with construction, including people who buy, sell and live in buildings, will enforce the standards in their own self-interests.
Contractors who knowingly build shoddy structures that fall down and kill people will be sued into bankruptcy and, since there will be no shield law treating a corporation as a "fictional person" for contractors to hide behind they'll face the prospect of personal bankruptcy and prison time.
Self-interest.
Structural and electrical and plumbing and every other kind of inspector will be held accountable since they will be required by the building and insurance and lending industries to certify that standards have been met.
Self-interest.
Libertarians don't want shoddy construction and the erosion of building codes.
It's a simple question......
The libertarian argument as I said earlier is libertarians believe "the free market" will fix the problem....even tho there is no such thing as "the free market"....and yall also believe that no builders would cut corners or do shoddy work because of "self interests" -- reality says otherwise
so.....in your fantasy world of no monopolization of force.....when someone sues for shoddy construction.....who enforces that court decision?
I'll wait
So without the monopoly of force..how do you enforce building codes? You can't
You think people are just supposed to sue after their family dies in a fucked up building collapse...
So....when that family sues....who will enforce the settlement?
There is a reason you can't answer that question.....
it is the same reason there are over 90281727 different kinds of liberatians...because a new strain of libertarian is invented everytime their fantasy ideology gets challenged by reality...
You're arguing nonsense. Libertarians have ZERO to do with what happened.
Got it.
you can’t compete in politics then.