A multistory residential building partially collapsed in the South Florida

[CarlinAnnArbor]

Just look at these heroes risking their lives in an attempt to save complete strangers who may be trapped.

They are getting ready to attempt to drill through the roof of the parking garage, while standing in water...

https://videos.dailymail.co.uk/video/mol/2021/06/24/7337056344606788873/640x360_MP4_7337056344606788873.mp4

Reportedly, building was known to be sinking...

Collapsed Miami beach condo tower hadn't been certified since 1981 when it was built and has been 'sinking into the ground since the NINETIES'​

• Champlain Towers South in Surfside, Florida, was built in 1981 and hasn't been recertified since then
• Shimon Wdowinski, a professor in the Department of Earth and Environment at Florida International University, did a study on the building last year
• He found that it had been sinking 2mm a year since the 1990s into the ground
• Miami Dade Building Code states buildings only have to be certified every 40 years
• The Champlain Towers South Association hired an engineer to review structural and electrical updates ahead of its first certification
• It was also in the process of re-roofing when the building partially collapsed on Thursday
• Officials have no idea what caused the building to collapse yet
• There are now fears the rest of it will collapse soon, further reducing the chances of finding any survivors
• One person is dead, with 99 others linked to the building still missing
• Bruce Masia, a local building manager, said the roof renovation will be looked at
• He asked whether it put any additional weight on the building that it couldn't withstand

Collapsed Miami beach condo tower hadn't been certified since 1981

Champlain Towers South was completed in 1981 but hasn't been updated significantly since then. There are 136 condos inside and most belong to first-time homeowners.

www.dailymail.co.uk

In this picture I previously posted, it shows the ground level has sunk about five or six feet. All of those white columns used to be underground in the parking garage below, and they now protrude through the ground level deck. The rebar has literally been ripped out of the ground level deck; you can see it hanging from column 72 on the left.

Sink holes crossed my mind

Same here. Unstable ground, with the building already noted to have been slowly sinking.
Florida is known for this problem with porous limestone and underground water issues.

Prayers to those still trapped in the rubble and their families....

Seen a couple of encouraging stories....like how a guy walking his dog nearby heard a cry for help and got the attention of rescuers who saved the person.....hopefully there are more of these stories...

As for causes......my guess would be that it's a sediment problem....since there are claims it has been sinking since the 90's.....I heard the land the condos were built on was reclaimed marsh.....

“When we measure subsidence or when we see movement of the buildings, it’s worth checking why it happens,” Wdowinski said. “We cannot say what is the reason for that from the satellite images but we can say there was movement here.”

FIU professor: Collapsed Surfside building showed signs of subsidence in ‘90s

The area where a building partially collapsed in Surfside, Fla. showed signs of land subsidence in the 1990s, according to space-based radar data analyzed by an FIU professor.

news.fiu.edu

I guess the reason I see some folks bringing up libertarianism is because libertarians don't believe in federal or state building codes....they believe the "free market" will ultimately do the right thing......and if they don't -- and you die, your relatives can sue.....but since lots of libertarians don't believe in a monopoly of force to enforce building codes; I don't see how they think any civil court decisions would be enforced either...

That is a total fucking lie. Everyone believes in strong building codes.

oh yea??

Well who enforces these building codes??

Surely not the government...

Why Libertarians Reject Government Building Codes and Licensing

Think government licensing stops buildings from falling down, restaurants poisoning diners and people driving on the wrong side of the road? It doesn’t. You do.

discover.hubpages.com

From the article.
In a libertarian society everyone connected with construction, including people who buy, sell and live in buildings, will enforce the standards in their own self-interests.

Contractors who knowingly build shoddy structures that fall down and kill people will be sued into bankruptcy and, since there will be no shield law treating a corporation as a "fictional person" for contractors to hide behind they'll face the prospect of personal bankruptcy and prison time.

Self-interest.

Structural and electrical and plumbing and every other kind of inspector will be held accountable since they will be required by the building and insurance and lending industries to certify that standards have been met.

Self-interest.

Libertarians don't want shoddy construction and the erosion of building codes.

Who enforces building codes??

It's a simple question......

The libertarian argument as I said earlier is libertarians believe "the free market" will fix the problem....even tho there is no such thing as "the free market"....and yall also believe that no builders would cut corners or do shoddy work because of "self interests" -- reality says otherwise

so.....in your fantasy world of no monopolization of force.....when someone sues for shoddy construction.....who enforces that court decision?


I'll wait

You just moved the goalposts. You said "libertarians don't believe in federal or state building codes. Now you say who will enforce building codes.

Libertarians don't believe in the monolopy of force you moron...

So without the monopoly of force..how do you enforce building codes? You can't

You think people are just supposed to sue after their family dies in a fucked up building collapse...

So....when that family sues....who will enforce the settlement?

There is a reason you can't answer that question.....

it is the same reason there are over 90281727 different kinds of liberatians...because a new strain of libertarian is invented everytime their fantasy ideology gets challenged by reality...

I am not a libertarian when it comes to building codes issues. Go find a libertarian message forum to argue with people. You said libertarians don't believe in building codes. They do believe in codes and those codes should from within the industry and would likely surpass government codes. You can probably find a national association of barber shops who thinks they can write professional codes for their industry better than government.

You spent the last 6 or 7 comments defending "Libertarianism" and speaking for "libertarians" only to say "I'm not a libertarian" when I ask you a simple question??

What libertarians, or libertarian policies are in effect in Miami? Or Florida for that matter?

You're arguing nonsense. Libertarians have ZERO to do with what happened.

Yeah, and should never have any power over policy. But you fucking libertarian conservatives keep believing....

I'm not a libertarian. Maybe you could call me a comservatarian, but I dont believe in open borders, legalizingcevery damn mind altering drug, legalizing abortion or prostitution.

So your trans political then....

Got it.

you can’t compete in politics then.

You have mo say in anything

 

[Grumblenuts]

Lately I'm finding "Show ignored content" to be a complete waste of time.

 

[beautress]

I think maybe the building inspector and the builders might have to answer some questions.

The building was stated as being 40 years when it was first reported. I'm thinking that in four decades a building so close to the ocean has seen numerous storms and at least 2 or more of them were cat 4 or cat 5 in intensity which could rearrange earth and sand half a mile in and a quarter mile deep. The building is not quite that tall and having a few cracks may be comparable to hundreds of other resort buildings along coastal waters and in the Florida Keys. Pardon my conspiracy theory, but I think the problem lies with the barrage of seasonal stoms that make sand part of an undertow-like systemic chain unbeknownst to the people above.

 

[Jim H - VA USA]

Just look at these heroes risking their lives in an attempt to save complete strangers who may be trapped.

They are getting ready to attempt to drill through the roof of the parking garage, while standing in water...

https://videos.dailymail.co.uk/video/mol/2021/06/24/7337056344606788873/640x360_MP4_7337056344606788873.mp4

Reportedly, building was known to be sinking...

Collapsed Miami beach condo tower hadn't been certified since 1981 when it was built and has been 'sinking into the ground since the NINETIES'​

• Champlain Towers South in Surfside, Florida, was built in 1981 and hasn't been recertified since then
• Shimon Wdowinski, a professor in the Department of Earth and Environment at Florida International University, did a study on the building last year
• He found that it had been sinking 2mm a year since the 1990s into the ground
• Miami Dade Building Code states buildings only have to be certified every 40 years
• The Champlain Towers South Association hired an engineer to review structural and electrical updates ahead of its first certification
• It was also in the process of re-roofing when the building partially collapsed on Thursday
• Officials have no idea what caused the building to collapse yet
• There are now fears the rest of it will collapse soon, further reducing the chances of finding any survivors
• One person is dead, with 99 others linked to the building still missing
• Bruce Masia, a local building manager, said the roof renovation will be looked at
• He asked whether it put any additional weight on the building that it couldn't withstand

Collapsed Miami beach condo tower hadn't been certified since 1981

Champlain Towers South was completed in 1981 but hasn't been updated significantly since then. There are 136 condos inside and most belong to first-time homeowners.

www.dailymail.co.uk

In this picture I previously posted, it shows the ground level has sunk about five or six feet. All of those white columns used to be underground in the parking garage below, and they now protrude through the ground level deck. The rebar has literally been ripped out of the ground level deck; you can see it hanging from column 72 on the left.

Sink holes crossed my mind

Same here. Unstable ground, with the building already noted to have been slowly sinking.
Florida is known for this problem with porous limestone and underground water issues.

Prayers to those still trapped in the rubble and their families....

Seen a couple of encouraging stories....like how a guy walking his dog nearby heard a cry for help and got the attention of rescuers who saved the person.....hopefully there are more of these stories...

As for causes......my guess would be that it's a sediment problem....since there are claims it has been sinking since the 90's.....I heard the land the condos were built on was reclaimed marsh.....

“When we measure subsidence or when we see movement of the buildings, it’s worth checking why it happens,” Wdowinski said. “We cannot say what is the reason for that from the satellite images but we can say there was movement here.”

FIU professor: Collapsed Surfside building showed signs of subsidence in ‘90s

The area where a building partially collapsed in Surfside, Fla. showed signs of land subsidence in the 1990s, according to space-based radar data analyzed by an FIU professor.

news.fiu.edu

I guess the reason I see some folks bringing up libertarianism is because libertarians don't believe in federal or state building codes....they believe the "free market" will ultimately do the right thing......and if they don't -- and you die, your relatives can sue.....but since lots of libertarians don't believe in a monopoly of force to enforce building codes; I don't see how they think any civil court decisions would be enforced either...

That is a total fucking lie. Everyone believes in strong building codes.

oh yea??

Well who enforces these building codes??

Surely not the government...

Why Libertarians Reject Government Building Codes and Licensing

Think government licensing stops buildings from falling down, restaurants poisoning diners and people driving on the wrong side of the road? It doesn’t. You do.

discover.hubpages.com

From the article.
In a libertarian society everyone connected with construction, including people who buy, sell and live in buildings, will enforce the standards in their own self-interests.

Contractors who knowingly build shoddy structures that fall down and kill people will be sued into bankruptcy and, since there will be no shield law treating a corporation as a "fictional person" for contractors to hide behind they'll face the prospect of personal bankruptcy and prison time.

Self-interest.

Structural and electrical and plumbing and every other kind of inspector will be held accountable since they will be required by the building and insurance and lending industries to certify that standards have been met.

Self-interest.

Libertarians don't want shoddy construction and the erosion of building codes.

Who enforces building codes??

It's a simple question......

The libertarian argument as I said earlier is libertarians believe "the free market" will fix the problem....even tho there is no such thing as "the free market"....and yall also believe that no builders would cut corners or do shoddy work because of "self interests" -- reality says otherwise

so.....in your fantasy world of no monopolization of force.....when someone sues for shoddy construction.....who enforces that court decision?


I'll wait

You just moved the goalposts. You said "libertarians don't believe in federal or state building codes. Now you say who will enforce building codes.

Libertarians don't believe in the monolopy of force you moron...

So without the monopoly of force..how do you enforce building codes? You can't

You think people are just supposed to sue after their family dies in a fucked up building collapse...

So....when that family sues....who will enforce the settlement?

There is a reason you can't answer that question.....

it is the same reason there are over 90281727 different kinds of liberatians...because a new strain of libertarian is invented everytime their fantasy ideology gets challenged by reality...

I am not a libertarian when it comes to building codes issues. Go find a libertarian message forum to argue with people. You said libertarians don't believe in building codes. They do believe in codes and those codes should from within the industry and would likely surpass government codes. You can probably find a national association of barber shops who thinks they can write professional codes for their industry better than government.

You spent the last 6 or 7 comments defending "Libertarianism" and speaking for "libertarians" only to say "I'm not a libertarian" when I ask you a simple question??

What libertarians, or libertarian policies are in effect in Miami? Or Florida for that matter?

You're arguing nonsense. Libertarians have ZERO to do with what happened.

>Libertarians have ZERO to do with what happened.

Yep.

Debbie Wasserman's federal district.

Miami-Dade County Mayor is Democrat Daniella Levine Cava.

County voted Blue in 2020 election.

But the collapse probably had nothing to do with politics, and everything to do with lack of proper inspections.

Still standing and occupied are Champlain Towers East and Champlain Towers North.

 

[Quasar44]

Seems the god damn building was anti Semitic

 

[skye]

We shall see said the blind man.

 

[Quasar44]

I'm hearing that the FBI has been summoned to the collapsed condominium in Miami.


The FBI ....wow just wow

Anybody can confirm this?

The FBI is there. The idiots are already trying to pin the collapse on Trump.

And 20 Jews are dead !!!

 

[martybegan]

Video of actual collapse...

https://videos.dailymail.co.uk/video/mol/2021/06/24/7628767855580265207/960x540_MP4_7628767855580265207.mp4

Thank you for the video...it's seem that it start to collapse from the roof ?

Maybe, but you can't see inside the building, and it is possible the failure happened lower inside and resulted in the outside upper parts appearing to fall first.

I'm an Engineer, but not a structural one. What I have done in the past is failure analysis.

I read earlier...that the collapse first happened in the garage area----then after that, the other sides went down. So few details, many are missing and it isn't looking good for them.

If it was a "pancake failure" where the floors collapsed on each other they aren't going to find many bodies.

 

[martybegan]

Video of actual collapse...

https://videos.dailymail.co.uk/video/mol/2021/06/24/7628767855580265207/960x540_MP4_7628767855580265207.mp4

Thank you for the video...it's seem that it start to collapse from the roof ?

Maybe, but you can't see inside the building, and it is possible the failure happened lower inside and resulted in the outside upper parts appearing to fall first.

I'm an Engineer, but not a structural one. What I have done in the past is failure analysis.

I read earlier...that the collapse first happened in the garage area----then after that, the other sides went down. So few details, many are missing and it isn't looking good for them.

From some of the photos, it appears that unstable ground beneath the building caused the collapse.

I was reading about a "sink rate" in the area but there were other buildings settling quicker in the area. right now we simply don't have the data.

All of Florida is shitty ground, if you notice very few houses have basements due to the water table and general poor soil quality.

 

[Ray9]

Does anyone besides me wonder why the building inspectors that have been rubber stamping code violations have not been identified?

 

[AMart]

Does anyone besides me wonder why the building inspectors that have been rubber stamping code violations have not been identified?

Are you saying building inspectors, relative to this building, hit the building with code violations or the building was worthy of code violations and inspectors refrained with issuing code violations?

Rubber stamping code violations would translate to giving the building code violations when it didn't deserve the violations. "approve automatically without proper consideration".

Do you have a link?

 

[Ray9]

Does anyone besides me wonder why the building inspectors that have been rubber stamping code violations have not been identified?

Are you saying building inspectors, relative to this building, hit the building with code violations or the building was worthy of code violations and inspectors refrained with issuing code violations?

Rubber stamping code violations would translate to giving the building code violations when it didn't deserve the violations. "approve automatically without proper consideration".

Do you have a link?

Not very clever. Could you do better? I think so.

 

[beagle9]

Anyone consider terrorism yet ? There was an excruciating loud noise in accordance with the witnesses prior to the collapse right ? Any indicators of that noise yet ?? The collapse looked like a controlled demolition in that security camera footage. Could charges have been placed strategically by someone, and therefore it then put the collapse in motion ? Finding all the bodies is highly important, where as to make sure anyone at ground level don't have bullet holes in them as the cause of death.

 

[Likkmee]

It's a setup by JD.
He tweeted his 30 tb of data were stored in there 10 days before the "terrible accident".
They aint there.They're in Guatemala

 

[surada]

Anyone consider terrorism yet ? There was an excruciating loud noise in accordance with the witnesses prior to the collapse right ? Any indicators of that noise yet ?? The collapse looked like a controlled demolition in that security camera footage. Could charges have been placed strategically by someone, and therefore it then put the collapse in motion ? Finding all the bodies is highly important, where as to make sure anyone at ground level don't have bullet holes in them as the cause of death.

Ground water undermined the foundation.

 

[beagle9]

Anyone consider terrorism yet ? There was an excruciating loud noise in accordance with the witnesses prior to the collapse right ? Any indicators of that noise yet ?? The collapse looked like a controlled demolition in that security camera footage. Could charges have been placed strategically by someone, and therefore it then put the collapse in motion ? Finding all the bodies is highly important, where as to make sure anyone at ground level don't have bullet holes in them as the cause of death.

Ground water undermined the foundation.

Proof of that yet ?

 

[surada]

Anyone consider terrorism yet ? There was an excruciating loud noise in accordance with the witnesses prior to the collapse right ? Any indicators of that noise yet ?? The collapse looked like a controlled demolition in that security camera footage. Could charges have been placed strategically by someone, and therefore it then put the collapse in motion ? Finding all the bodies is highly important, where as to make sure anyone at ground level don't have bullet holes in them as the cause of death.

Look it up. Building failures come with a loud cracking sound. You are so typical of a Trumpie.

Ground water undermined the foundation.

Proof of that yet ?

 

[gipper]

Does anyone besides me wonder why the building inspectors that have been rubber stamping code violations have not been identified?

Are you saying building inspectors, relative to this building, hit the building with code violations or the building was worthy of code violations and inspectors refrained with issuing code violations?

Rubber stamping code violations would translate to giving the building code violations when it didn't deserve the violations. "approve automatically without proper consideration".

Do you have a link?

Not very clever. Could you do better? I think so.

We need a link Raymond. Got one?

 

[Ray9]

Anyone consider terrorism yet ? There was an excruciating loud noise in accordance with the witnesses prior to the collapse right ? Any indicators of that noise yet ?? The collapse looked like a controlled demolition in that security camera footage. Could charges have been placed strategically by someone, and therefore it then put the collapse in motion ? Finding all the bodies is highly important, where as to make sure anyone at ground level don't have bullet holes in them as the cause of death.

Look it up. Building failures come with a loud cracking sound. You are so typical of a Trumpie.

Ground water undermined the foundation.

Proof of that yet ?

Slope Creep: Warning Signs, Causes And Structural Damage To A House - Buyers Ask

Slope creep often results in damage to a house over time. The damage may include foundation or framing damage, sewer line damage, roof damage, doors and window sticking, garage floor and slab cracks as well as cracks in swimming pools and spas, etc. When your home sits on a lot that has slope...

buyersask.com

 

[beagle9]

Anyone consider terrorism yet ? There was an excruciating loud noise in accordance with the witnesses prior to the collapse right ? Any indicators of that noise yet ?? The collapse looked like a controlled demolition in that security camera footage. Could charges have been placed strategically by someone, and therefore it then put the collapse in motion ? Finding all the bodies is highly important, where as to make sure anyone at ground level don't have bullet holes in them as the cause of death.

Look it up. Building failures come with a loud cracking sound. You are so typical of a Trumpie.

Ground water undermined the foundation.

Proof of that yet ?

So does controlled demolitions, now give me some proof of your ground water theory.