Zone1 A Major Difference of the Catholic Faith

[Meriweather]

Boy, you don't seem to be all laughing your head off. You sound kinda testy.

Yet...I was laughing. And...I told you I was laughing. But here you are telling me (yet again) what I am "really" doing. You don't think that is amusing? I can't help it, but it really is.

I get it. You owe God nothing, not love, not obedience, not allegiance, not worship or adoration...nothing.

 

[The Irish Ram]

I get it, since ignorance is bliss, then you should be down right euphoric.

Sadly, it's apparent you don't get God, or Christ, or scripture, since you never site any of it and refute everything Christ and God say.
So, because I have faith in Christ, I'm going to Heaven when I die. Look me up if you ever get out of Purgatory...

 

[Meriweather]

I get it, since ignorance is bliss, then you should be down right euphoric.

Sadly, it's apparent you don't get God, or Christ, or scripture, since you never site any of it and refute everything Christ and God say.
So, because I have faith in Christ, I'm going to Heaven when I die. Look me up if you ever get out of Purgatory...

You might get "it", but try getting the discussion point introduced in this thread. The intent was a discussion on a major difference in how denominations, and therefore their adherents, approach the Bible/scripture.

One way is, "The Bible teaches me how to get to heaven" and this was articulated in your post where you asked:

1. Do you believe that Jesus Christ is your Lord and Savior?
2. Do you believe that God raised Jesus from the dead?
3. Do you believe that Christ died on the cross for your sins?

If you answered yes to those questions then you are going to be so happy when you wake up in Heaven

One way of seeing/reading the Bible/scripture is as a self-help book on how to get oneself into heaven.

How the Bible/scripture has always been presented in Judaism and therefore a great influence on the Catholic/Early Church, is God's plan for earth and the people inhabiting it in the here and now. God's plan throughout the Bible was the redemption and salvation of the entire world and all its people. Redemption and salvation are meant for the here and now--today--not just for the someday in an afterlife. The Bible is more about God's plan for his world and the people currently living here, and less about the goal of someone who wants to have a heavenly afterlife.

The questions to ask: Do I want to be part of God's plan for his world, or do I just want to get myself into heaven and call it good enough? And....Do I regard the Bible as only my own self-help book into heaven, or do I regard the Bible as God's great plan for this world and its people? And....How can I be a part of God's plan to build/create a world where his will is done here as it is in heaven? How can I help?

How do you feel about the world? Do you owe the world anything, such as protecting and preserving its resources, leaving any environment, any place, better than when you arrived? Or is that also the same as seeing yourself in "debt" and as you reject being in "debt" or owing anything to the greater good, people can just live in the litter and erosion you leave in your wake? On the simple basis that you live here, do you owe anything to the daily spiritual life of this planet or do you want no part of that and therefore turn your back to it?

 

[ding]

You misunderstood that I was only offering advice, based on my belief that the other churches in America haven't sold out on Genesis.

Who has sold out Genesis, other than atheists?

 

[ding]

The details on whether creation or evolution took place in 24 hours or 24 million years, is another topic for debate.

Evolution of energy and matter began the moment the universe was created from nothing and has not stopped since. Hope that helps.

 

[The Irish Ram]

You might get "it", but try getting the discussion point introduced in this thread. The intent was a discussion on a major difference in how denominations, and therefore their adherents, approach the Bible/scripture.

One way is, "The Bible teaches me how to get to heaven" and this was articulated in your post where you asked:

1. Do you believe that Jesus Christ is your Lord and Savior?
2. Do you believe that God raised Jesus from the dead?
3. Do you believe that Christ died on the cross for your sins?

If you answered yes to those questions then you are going to be so happy when you wake up in Heaven

One way of seeing/reading the Bible/scripture is as a self-help book on how to get oneself into heaven.

How the Bible/scripture has always been presented in Judaism and therefore a great influence on the Catholic/Early Church, is God's plan for earth and the people inhabiting it in the here and now. God's plan throughout the Bible was the redemption and salvation of the entire world and all its people. Redemption and salvation are meant for the here and now--today--not just for the someday in an afterlife. The Bible is more about God's plan for his world and the people currently living here, and less about the goal of someone who wants to have a heavenly afterlife.

The questions to ask: Do I want to be part of God's plan for his world, or do I just want to get myself into heaven and call it good enough? And....Do I regard the Bible as only my own self-help book into heaven, or do I regard the Bible as God's great plan for this world and its people? And....How can I be a part of God's plan to build/create a world where his will is done here as it is in heaven? How can I help?

How do you feel about the world? Do you owe the world anything, such as protecting and preserving its resources, leaving any environment, any place, better than when you arrived? Or is that also the same as seeing yourself in "debt" and as you reject being in "debt" or owing anything to the greater good, people can just live in the litter and erosion you leave in your wake? On the simple basis that you live here, do you owe anything to the daily spiritual life of this planet or do you want no part of that and therefore turn your back to it?

Do you completely shun scripture? You never go near it.

We are going to take this earth to the brink of total destruction. God cares about the earth about as much as He cared about the destruction of the Temple. Stop trying to back track your owe/debt debacle and listen to the Word:

Regarding our "debt" to the earth:
For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.
the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken
“If those days are not cut short, no life would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened."

If God gave one shit about the earth He created, He wouldn't wait so long to stop it's destruction. It's not what is important to God. He can create a brand new earth with the snap of His fingers. He stops our destruction of the earth and each other not because He cares about the earth, but because He made a promise to Abraham. The elect He comes back to preserve are the remnants of the tribes of Israel.

So, before you start with the, you hate the earth diatribe, I love this earth. And am not looking forward to nuclear winter. I also know that me planting a tree isn't going to stop it.
There ya go.

 

[ding]

Do you completely shun scripture?

Much deeper than you can ever imagine or have likely done yourself. We are taught the context and nuances of the account. For instance, do you know what the significance of Jesus sleeping on the boat during the storm on the sea (Matthew 8:23-27)? Or the significance of why the woman at the well was alone (John 4:4-42)? Or what the significance of Jesus ignoring the gentile who was pleading for Jesus to heal her daughter (Mathew 15:22-28)?

And I'm just scratching the surface. So, do you think you understand scripture well enough to be casting stones?

 

[The Irish Ram]

Ding, who is "we"? Who taught you the meaning behind what you read? And do you know scripture well enough to discern whether what you are being taught is valid?
and
I know enough about scripture to recognize dogma when I see it. And to share my opinion on it.
We, as Christians, can also read context and cover all the bases as far as possible meanings and nuances, mysteries and and the various layers contained in the Bible. Do you assume we don't?
For instance, if you read the context of Jesus sleeping on the boat, Jesus gives you the answer. It's in the context.

This is a call out thread. Meri wants a pissing contest and will stop at nothing to get it. I had 14 Meri alerts in a row. As far as throwing stones, I am, at this point, throwing them back.

 

[Meriweather]

Do you completely shun scripture? You never go near it.

You are truly on a roll. You have yet to get right anything I've said in this thread, or anything about me. Since this thread is beyond your grasp, I'll read through this latest post of yours, but from the introduction, I think the recommendation will be that we move on.

 

[Meriweather]

So, before you start with the, you hate the earth diatribe

Listen. It is nothing about hating or loving the earth. Why would you--or anyone--hate the earth? Apparently my point wasn't clear.

 

[ninja007]

^ the insult.

Irish Ram is smart enough to know that if she is in Heaven, she is pollution free.

John 8:36

I have said over and over and over. My sins, in total, were nailed to the cross right up to the second I take my last breath here and my first breath in Heaven. And God didn't say He'd try not to notice my sins, HE SAID HE:
Put them behind Him.
Put them as far from Him as the East is from the West.
Is merciful to my unrighteousness, and will remember my sins no more

Col. 2 “Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross”
Hebrews 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness. I will remember their sins no more
It's like you don't believe a thing Christ and His Father say!


Nope. What I said was you believing that if I call you my savior, you are obligated to become my savior. That's not just incorrect, that's nuts! If I call you my maid, are you obligated to scrub my floors? Let me know, cause..

I didn't obligate Jesus into taking the cross for me by calling Him my Savior. He made Himself my Savior and gave me His pure record to enter Heaven with years ago. He gave it to me as a gift.

she needs to realize God (Jesus) would know every sin in our lives that we would commit.

 

[ninja007]

the bottom line like I told you Irish Ram, this is why catholics arent saved. they dont trust in Jesus' finished work.

 

[ding]

Ding, who is "we"? Who taught you the meaning behind what you read? And do you know scripture well enough to discern whether what you are being taught is valid?
and
I know enough about scripture to recognize dogma when I see it. And to share my opinion on it.
We, as Christians, can also read context and cover all the bases as far as possible meanings and nuances, mysteries and and the various layers contained in the Bible. Do you assume we don't?
For instance, if you read the context of Jesus sleeping on the boat, Jesus gives you the answer. It's in the context.

This is a call out thread. Meri wants a pissing contest and will stop at nothing to get it. I had 14 Meri alerts in a row. As far as throwing stones, I am, at this point, throwing them back.

I thought you might not know those answers but now I know you don't know the answers because you didn't explain them. The answers are pretty short. Would you like for me explain them for you and then you can be the judge of if they are valid or not? Then you will have a better understanding of the level of biblical study performed by Catholics.

Because my point here is don't assume you are superior at reading and especially understanding these passages. They are actually quite deep and packed with information that only makes sense when placed into the proper context of the day. Scripture is nuanced to a level I don't think you have considered or were taught.

The we is the Body of Christ with 2 millennia of study. You assume Catholics aren't well versed in scripture but that just isn't the case.

 

[Meriweather]

This is a call out thread. Meri wants a pissing contest and will stop at nothing to get it. I had 14 Meri alerts in a row. As far as throwing stones, I am, at this point, throwing them back.

No, the intent was not a call out thread. I had read your post with great interest, and it dawned on me how different approaches to scripture result in varying perspectives and therefore responses and positive reactions.

You're mistaken. I was not after a contest of any kind, but was interested in an in depth discussion more on the order of the many ways a ball can bounce depending on how and where it hits on a surface. Your changing words and the meanings of words I was using deflected and side-tracked any meaningful exchange of the main idea.

Since you have not taken my 14 responses as either enthusiasm or as a great interest in engaging someone who also responded enthusiastically to scripture, but only as insulting and throwing stones of all things, it seems a good time to now end the thread. And I'm sorry.

 

[ding]

she needs to realize God (Jesus) would know every sin in our lives that we would commit.

So God knows all the times you bore false witness against your neighbor?

 

[ding]

the bottom line like I told you Irish Ram, this is why catholics arent saved. they dont trust in Jesus' finished work.

Wow! Speaking for God. I much prefer the Catholic belief that no one knows the fate of others over your judgmental "theology." Be careful how you judge. I think that's somewhere in the bible but I'm only a Catholic and we don't know the Bible so good.

 

[The Irish Ram]

You are truly on a roll. You have yet to get right anything I've said in this thread, or anything about me. Since this thread is beyond your grasp, I'll read through this latest post of yours, but from the introduction, I think the recommendation will be that we move on.

More of your opinion, no scripture.
Not only do I get it your insults right, I quote them. For instance:

How do you feel about the world? Do you owe the world anything, such as protecting and preserving its resources, leaving any environment, any place, better than when you arrived? Or is that also the same as seeing yourself in "debt" and as you reject being in "debt" or owing anything to the greater good, people can just live in the litter and erosion you leave in your wake? On the simple basis that you live here, do you owe anything to the daily spiritual life of this planet or do you want no part of that and therefore turn your back to it?

Love the earth, hate the world. Love nature, hate what this vile world has turned into.
As for what I owe nature? When my kids were small they were watching Thomasina. There was a good witch who lived in the forest and had an assortment of injured wildlife that she was caring for. My youngest child's eyes got real wide and her head slowly turned in my direction. Cracked me up. I thought about just winking at her as I walked by, Instead I just said, "No honey, mommy's not a witch." I take care of God's animals. Because I care, not out of any obligation.

As for what you think I owe the world, it's 0. Cover your eyes I am about to unleash some scripture on ya:

1John 2: 15-17 Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For everything in the world-the cravings of sinful man, the lust of his eyes and the boasting of what he has and does-comes not from the Father but from the world.

 

[The Irish Ram]

she needs to realize God (Jesus) would know every sin in our lives that we would commit.

Which makes me wonder about believing that there is sin Christ fails to catch. Exactly how long it takes Christ to remove sin is revealed in the Bible. And why do all those that will be caught up in the Rapture not have to be dropped off in Purgatory first?
Here is how efficient Christ is:
It takes Christ 0 seconds to raise corruptible bodies, reunite the bodies to their respective souls, make them incorruptible, remove the sin of those who are still alive at the time of the Rapture, and make them incorruptible, and remove us to Heaven. To be exact, it will take Jesus 0.0000000001 of a second to achieve all that. That is how fast He can wipe out any residual sin hanging on.

 

[The Irish Ram]

I thought you might not know those answers but now I know you don't know the answers because you didn't explain them. The answers are pretty short. Would you like for me explain them for you and then you can be the judge of if they are valid or not? Then you will have a better understanding of the level of biblical study performed by Catholics.

Because my point here is don't assume you are superior at reading and especially understanding these passages. They are actually quite deep and packed with information that only makes sense when placed into the proper context of the day. Scripture is nuanced to a level I don't think you have considered or were taught.

The we is the Body of Christ with 2 millennia of study. You assume Catholics aren't well versed in scripture but that just isn't the case.

Start a new thread on it where we can discuss the different meanings and nuances in the Bible. I would very much like that. I am dying to know all about Purgatory.
and
I assumed Meri wasn't well versed in scripture. She simply ignores it. On the other hand, I am surrounded by Catholics. In laws, husband, his 9 siblings, 90% of my friends since childhood. And there isn't a bad one in the bunch. And all well versed.

 

[The Irish Ram]

I much prefer the Catholic belief that no one knows the fate of others

Why don't you know what fate awaits someone who is in Christ? The Bible tells us.