Zone1 A Major Difference of the Catholic Faith

[Meriweather]

How long do you have to be punished in Purgatory for the sins you think Jesus failed to cover, before God decides He has been repaid for salvaging you, and grants you entry into Heaven? How much is the obligation for your eternity worth? Wouldn't you have to work for an eternity to pay for an eternity of redemption?
It is a gift. Your participation is not required.

Once again you change words and meanings. Purgatory is not a time of punishment. It is a time of purification. Do you believe you will die in perfect purity, or is it safe to assume you may still be working on ridding yourself of some bad habits/behaviors up to the day you die?

Do you believe heaven is a place where bad habits/behaviors are welcome along with your soul/spirit? Do you believe that in heaven there is a garden of bad habits, and that God is there to welcome you into his house, bad habits and all? Perhaps you picture yourself pointing to Jesus and saying, "You already punished him for all my bad habits throughout all time."

Just as darkness cannot exist in sunlight, what is bad (like habits) cannot exist in what is good. What is good expels (purifies) that which is bad. If who we are is a bundle of bad habits, how can we expect to have an existence near God? What is pure is not repelled, but drawn closer.

 

[Meriweather]

If you believe that doing good in appreciation of and as a thank you to God for the gift God gave you, then good on you. Work heartily for the Lord.

I.do.not.believe.that.

If you believe you need to work off your portion of the redemption procedure to pay for your part in that redemption, then grace doesn't apply, but work is necessary to pay what you owe on your heavenly account. It is a debt you cannot afford or pay off.

I.do.not.believe.that.either.

Perhaps take in what I actually say?

 

[The Irish Ram]

In either case, it is God who helps us to repay what is owed him.

Why should we expect to be rewarded for repaying what we owe.

with God. I am not in debt to him, he is not in debt to me.

Pick a lane.
How does God help us to repay what is owed Him?? We are not repaying God for our redemption. That is a gift. So, what are you repaying God for?

 

[The Irish Ram]

It is a contract. One person offers something in return for another person doing something. Put any other words you want, but it remains a contract, an agreement. There is an exchange on both sides.

Call it a contract, a new covenant, or agreement, the exchange is one sided. Christ died on a cross covered in my sin and gave me His pure record to enter Heaven with. He exchanged my record for His. What He asks for in return, (our side of the contract) is NOTHING. It is a gift.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Once again you change words and meanings. Purgatory is not a time of punishment. It is a time of purification. Do you believe you will die in perfect purity, or is it safe to assume you may still be working on ridding yourself of some bad habits/behaviors up to the day you die?

Do you believe heaven is a place where bad habits/behaviors are welcome along with your soul/spirit? Do you believe that in heaven there is a garden of bad habits, and that God is there to welcome you into his house, bad habits and all? Perhaps you picture yourself pointing to Jesus and saying, "You already punished him for all my bad habits throughout all time."

Just as darkness cannot exist in sunlight, what is bad (like habits) cannot exist in what is good. What is good expels (purifies) that which is bad. If who we are is a bundle of bad habits, how can we expect to have an existence near God? What is pure is not repelled, but drawn closer.

It is safe to assume that my bad habits and behavior are covered by the blood of the Lamb. There is therefore NO CONDEMNATION directed toward me. I am sin free in the eyes of God, and God remembers my inequities no more. Why does God put my sin behind Him and not yours?

Romans 8:1-4 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free

Hebrews 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness. I will remember their sins no more​

It's a gift...

 

[otto105]

It hit me this morning when I read this in a post by The Irish Ram:



Compare this to, "Thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven."

God's Kingdom is flourishing in heaven and the will of God is being done, salvation ever present.

It is not heaven that is fallen, it is Earth. We wake up on earth. In the Catholic faith we wake up each morning with the goal of building the Kingdom of God here on earth, with seeking and doing the will of God in our present lives.
Thinking that salvation is as The Irish Ram explains...


...misses God's plan for Earth, misses Jesus' point of salvation for this entire planet. We are not meant to endure a fallen life on a fallen planet until we wake up in heaven. We, as God's children are builders, are creators of God's Kingdom here on earth, human leaders of the Way of Salvation here and now.

So, do we pollute heaven as much as we do on earth.

 

[Anathema]

The Catholic life is about being a servant of God, discerning the will of God, to serve God and others. Salvation is for all in this life in this place

That’s part of why I could never be a Catholic… when I do physical work, I expect to be PAID regularly, not just when I retire.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Perhaps you picture yourself pointing to Jesus and saying, "You already punished him for all my bad habits throughout all time."

No, I picture Jesus, my intercessor, pointing at me and proclaiming to God, and my accuser, Satan, " I was already punished in her place for all of her inequities and died for it, therefore there is NO condemnation that can be levied against her now. Her debt is paid in full. But we could reward her and throw her a bone for trying to get Meri out of Purgatory...

 

[Meriweather]

Pick a lane.
How does God help us to repay what is owed Him?? We are not repaying God for our redemption. That is a gift. So, what are you repaying God for?

You have never had children then. Or, if you did, you never helped them with one of their chores?

 

[Meriweather]

Pick a lane.
How does God help us to repay what is owed Him?? We are not repaying God for our redemption. That is a gift. So, what are you repaying God for?

What are your children and your spouse repaying your for? What do they owe you?

 

[Meriweather]

Call it a contract, a new covenant, or agreement, the exchange is one sided. Christ died on a cross covered in my sin and gave me His pure record to enter Heaven with. He exchanged my record for His. What He asks for in return, (our side of the contract) is NOTHING. It is a gift.

So all you care about is that someone was punished for your sins and since you said Christ is my savior he owes you. He owes you entrance into heaven. He is in your debt because you claimed him as savior. Right?

 

[Meriweather]

It is safe to assume that my bad habits and behavior are covered by the blood of the Lamb. There is therefore NO CONDEMNATION directed toward me. I am sin free in the eyes of God, and God remembers my inequities no more. Why does God put my sin behind Him and not yours?

So you believe God is blind to your bad habits and behaviors. No matter what you do, you believe that to God, it never happened. And that is how it will be when you enter heaven with all bad habits and behaviors intact. God just doesn't see them.

 

[Meriweather]

So, do we pollute heaven as much as we do on earth.

I believe the answer to that is no. Irish Ram appears to believe that yes we will pollute heaven, but God won't notice.

 

[Meriweather]

That’s part of why I could never be a Catholic… when I do physical work, I expect to be PAID regularly, not just when I retire.

I grew up in a family of eight kids. We all had responsibilities, our parents' expectations of us were high but not unreasonable. It was just better when we all worked together. (We also played together and prayed together.) A chore well-done meant extra play time and extra-happy parents. And that made us happy. What I like being about being Catholic is that I never learned to worry about money or how much I'm being paid. The flowers of the field don't concern themselves with such things, so why should I?

 

[Meriweather]

No, I picture Jesus, my intercessor, pointing at me and proclaiming to God, and my accuser, Satan, " I was punished for all of her sin and died for it, therefore there is NO condemnation that can be levied against her now. Her debt is paid in full.

I picture Jesus shedding his blood as the sign of the New Covenant/Testament between God and mankind: Our repentance for God's forgiveness of our sins. Adam and Eve led the way to disobedience. Jesus led the way of obedience, of discerning the will of God and following it, all the days of our lives. During his lifetime, Jesus often said, "Your sins are forgiven," and religious authorities were adamant that he had no right to say such a thing--i.e., there was no such covenant with God. Can you point to one person Jesus healed saying, "No worries, I will accept every punishment for all the sins you ever committed?"

 

[sparky]

No, true Christians are AMBASSADORS for the Kingdom of God.

nothing could possibly be further from the truth Carl

~S~

 

[ding]

.
No, true Christians are AMBASSADORS for the Kingdom of God. Of course true Christians are to live their lives as those who's citizenship is first and foremost in Heaven. Good works ALONE aren't enough. They understand that they will bring the Kingdom. That is for the Father in His own time. The true Christian doesn't embrace the pagan rituals and traditions of the pagan culture they live in on this earth. Nobody has done this like the Catholic Church

You guys are hammers looking for nails. Catholics don't believe what you believe they believe.

EVERYTHING IS THROUGH THE GRACE OF GOD.

Does that clear it up for you guys?

 

[Anathema]

What I like being about being Catholic is that I never learned to worry about money or how much I'm being paid. The flowers of the field don't concern themselves with such things, so why should I?

I have bills that need to be paid, and my creditors don’t take smiles or IOUs. I work the same way. If I’m working for my employer or some higher power I expect to be paid regularly. I’m not deferring the compensation to some later time.

 

[Meriweather]

I have bills that need to be paid, and my creditors don’t take smiles or IOUs. I work the same way. If I’m working for my employer or some higher power I expect to be paid regularly. I’m not deferring the compensation to some later time.

I've never had a bill that went unpaid.

When it comes to the afterlife, I take it you feel you are due something in this life instead?

 

[The Irish Ram]

So all you care about is that someone was punished for your sins and since you said Christ is my savior he owes you. He owes you entrance into heaven. He is in your debt because you claimed him as savior. Right?

If I claim you are my savior, are you in my debt? Do you then owe me entrance?
It was Jesus Christ that said He was my Savior, all I did was believe Him. And love Him for it.