Zone1 A Brief Look at Blacks and Jews in America(take 2)

[Lisa558]

On the part you bolded - absolutely. In terms of the avenues of help available by the government, Jews were treated like any other white group.

I am not sure that the divisions between Jews and Blacks have to do with “resenting success”, I’ll need to read up on that. My personal feeling is that many Jews joined the Civil Rights movement because they knew what it was like to be persecuted, and it was the right thing to do. What I seem to see lately is a pitting of of one group against the other.

But what is frequently ignored is the degree to which these government programs helped whites and left blacks behind, and how that related to creating a legacy to pass on to the next generation.

One example would be the GI bill, that propelled many whites into the middle class.

1) Jews were NOT treated like any white group. They found themselves unable to get hired because they were Jewish, and they found themselves facing anti-Jew quotas at colleges. You are denying the antisemitism that Jews faced, and lumping them in as “all,other whites,” because it helps you deny that a persecuted minority was able to succeed so well.

2) That “legacy” you mention, to the extent it existed (my father didn’t get the GI bill, for example, and had the same chance as blacks in his college class) should have disappeared by now, given that blacks have had two generations of favored college admissions while Jews moved up in one generation - and with the opposite of favored admissions.

I still say it’s resentment against a successful minority. As another poster upthread noted, you see it against Asians as well.

 

[MizMolly]

Start naming laws and policies made by blacks that denied whites of opportunity. And AA is not that. Because the link you posted is about a man who is an example of what white racism can do to a person. He was broken by such racism and the feeling of helplessness led him to make a poor decision. This is akin to the woman who has been abused so much that she finally murders her husband. Without white racism there is no Justin Tyron Roberts. But in your delusion where you discount the effects of white racism because you are white and don't face it, among other problems you have, you try comparing this to white racism.

I don’t make excuses either. The abused woman might kill an abuser in self defense, not innocent people. You excuse someone who kills innocent victims .

 

[flacaltenn]

On the part you bolded - absolutely. In terms of the avenues of help available by the government, Jews were treated like any other white group.

Then why promulgate distrust and hatred of Jews? Lumping them with ALL whites just to infer they NEVER SUPPORTED the civil rights movement strongly -- is just pathethic.

THIS is why the modern day Marxist reincarnation of the Democrat party is bleeding support from Jews, Blacks, Hispanics, Asians. Because there's too many buses lined up to toss the NON-BELIEVERS under.

Actually, the Civil Rights Act of 1964, also addressed religous discrimination, so it made sense for Jews to join the Civil Rights movement.

"The vast majority of Jewish supporters of desegregation argued that institutional discrimination was a threat to all minorities, including Jews and, therefore, the civil rights movement warranted public Jewish support"

Source:

Jews and the Civil Rights Movement

On October 12, 1958, 50 sticks of dynamite exploded near the entrance of the Hebrew Benevolent Congregation in Atlanta, Georgia. The attack wasn’t simply

jewishunpacked.com

Obviously MLK was at the forefront of the Civil Rights movement and publically empathized with their persecution.

As far as benefits like the GI Bill, you are correct. My Dad was in the Navy during the Korean War, and was one of the fortunate ones who got the benefits of the GI Bill, but quite a few of his peers for various reasons did not.

This article covered some of it.

Many Black veterans were denied G.I. Bill benefits after World War II. Some lawmakers want to correct the historical error.

The G.I. Bill is largely credited with helping build America's middle class — but that economic opportunity was wrongly denied to many Black veterans.

www.cbsnews.com

So Jews get their "ally card" cancelled 50 years later for being "self-serving" whites after traveling the same ROAD for anti-discrimination with blacks for all that time? Kinda fickle and suspicious in my opinion. Jews got no "special benefits" or credit points from govt as a minority other than constantly changing immigration quotas.. Good luck retaining them in the Dem party that is anti-religion, not a supporter of Israel, and as "woke" as they have become.

 

[Lisa558]

Then why promulgate distrust and hatred of Jews? Lumping them with ALL whites just to infer they NEVER SUPPORTED the civil rights movement strongly -- is just pathethic.

THIS is why the modern day Marxist reincarnation of the Democrat party is bleeding support from Jews, Blacks, Hispanics, Asians. Because there's too many buses lined up to toss the NON-BELIEVERS under.



So Jews get their "ally card" cancelled 50 years later for being "self-serving" whites after traveling the same ROAD for anti-discrimination with blacks for all that time? Kinda fickle and suspicious in my opinion. Jews got no "special benefits" or credit points from govt as a minority other than constantly changing immigration quotas.. Good luck retaining them in the Dem party that is anti-religion, not a supporter of Israel, and as "woke" as they have become.

Blacks and leftists are trying to deny the extent to which Jews supported them during the Civil Rights movement - risking and even GIVING their lives for it - because:

a) it kills the victimhood mantra being elevated to a cult-like status in which they insist everyone was against them and nobody lifted a finger to help, but even more importantly….

b) they resent that a downtrodden minority, persecuted for millenia and suffering the most horrific antisemitism just 80 years ago (I still meet Holocaust survivors) can be in abject poverty in one generation and in middle-class comfort the next with nothing more than their motivation, discipline, hard work, and good values.

Finally, as far as Jews getting benefits, plenty of them didn’t get ANYTHING that wasn’t also available to blacks. My father did not get the GI bill, and yet he was in college just the same as his black classmates.

 

[BackAgain]

Then why promulgate distrust and hatred of Jews? Lumping them with ALL whites just to infer they NEVER SUPPORTED the civil rights movement strongly -- is just pathethic.

THIS is why the modern day Marxist reincarnation of the Democrat party is bleeding support from Jews, Blacks, Hispanics, Asians. Because there's too many buses lined up to toss the NON-BELIEVERS under.



So Jews get their "ally card" cancelled 50 years later for being "self-serving" whites after traveling the same ROAD for anti-discrimination with blacks for all that time? Kinda fickle and suspicious in my opinion. Jews got no "special benefits" or credit points from govt as a minority other than constantly changing immigration quotas.. Good luck retaining them in the Dem party that is anti-religion, not a supporter of Israel, and as "woke" as they have become.

True dat. Along those lines, it remains a very curious phenomenon that so many Jewish people choose to remain allies with the Democrap Party.

 

[Lisa558]

True dat. Along those lines, it remains a very curious phenomenon that so many Jewish people choose to remain allies with the Democrap Party.

That’s because, contrary to OP’s accusation of Jews acting in their own self-interest, they often put their own interests LAST. I was on a Zoom class on how to combat antisemitism, and one of the participants - liberal Jew - said that Jews should be focused on fighting racism and not worry about antisemitism.

Can you imagine? A Jewish Democrat joins an antisemitism class to tell us we should be fighting racism instead.

 

[IM2]

I'm not going to argue with you about this flacaltenn. Your assessment is incorrect. It's just that simple

 

[IM2]

Then why promulgate distrust and hatred of Jews? Lumping them with ALL whites just to infer they NEVER SUPPORTED the civil rights movement strongly -- is just pathethic.

THIS is why the modern day Marxist reincarnation of the Democrat party is bleeding support from Jews, Blacks, Hispanics, Asians. Because there's too many buses lined up to toss the NON-BELIEVERS under.



So Jews get their "ally card" cancelled 50 years later for being "self-serving" whites after traveling the same ROAD for anti-discrimination with blacks for all that time? Kinda fickle and suspicious in my opinion. Jews got no "special benefits" or credit points from govt as a minority other than constantly changing immigration quotas.. Good luck retaining them in the Dem party that is anti-religion, not a supporter of Israel, and as "woke" as they have become.

Nobody is promulgating that but you. White Jews have admitted how they benefitted from whiteness. There is no modern day Marxist doing jack shit. The facts of history are what they are and instead of defending racist Jews like Lisa, you should be denigrating her, Azog and other Jews in this forum for creating a division where there was friendship. But in standard ass backwards thinking that goes with the inability to accept responsibility you try finding a way to blame blacks.

And I guess this is why you don't rush in here trying to "teach" the OP.

Zone1 - Why is antisemitism so much more prevalent among blacks than whites - 4x worse in the most antisemitic category?

The study linked below references how much more common antisemitism is among blacks, and the question is “why,” considering that Jews - well out of proportion to their numbers - put their lives on the line to march with blacks during Civil Rights. (In another thread, a black claims they did this...

www.usmessageboard.com

White Jews got benefits from government programs that excluded blacks. That's a fact. No matter what you say, that IS what happened. But you have repeated a white racist lie about black resentment of Jewish sucess which not only shows what you are, but that you are intellectually lazy and choose to accept a simple conclusion about a complex relationship because it fits your narrative.

 

[Coyote]

Then why promulgate distrust and hatred of Jews? Lumping them with ALL whites just to infer they NEVER SUPPORTED the civil rights movement strongly -- is just pathethic.

Don’t know.

THIS is why the modern day Marxist reincarnation of the Democrat party is bleeding support from Jews, Blacks, Hispanics, Asians. Because there's too many buses lined up to toss the NON-BELIEVERS under.

It’s not Marxist. That’s rubbish.

So Jews get their "ally card" cancelled 50 years later for being "self-serving" whites after traveling the same ROAD for anti-discrimination with blacks for all that time? Kinda fickle and suspicious in my opinion. Jews got no "special benefits" or credit points from govt as a minority other than constantly changing immigration quotas.. Good luck retaining them in the Dem party that is anti-religion, not a supporter of Israel, and as "woke" as they have become.

Don’t see the Republican Party with it’s nationalist fascist tilt doing much better.

 

[Coyote]

Blacks and leftists are trying to deny the extent to which Jews supported them during the Civil Rights movement - risking and even GIVING their lives for it - because:

a) it kills the victimhood mantra being elevated to a cult-like status in which they insist everyone was against them and nobody lifted a finger to help, but even more importantly….

b) they resent that a downtrodden minority, persecuted for millenia and suffering the most horrific antisemitism just 80 years ago (I still meet Holocaust survivors) can be in abject poverty in one generation and in middle-class comfort the next with nothing more than their motivation, discipline, hard work, and good values.

Finally, as far as Jews getting benefits, plenty of them didn’t get ANYTHING that wasn’t also available to blacks. My father did not get the GI bill, and yet he was in college just the same as his black classmates.

As bad as it was, the antisemitism in this country was not as bad as the legalized racism and abuse under Jim Crowe. You constantly downplay that but it’s part of the whole picture. It is a fact that Jews, had more opportunities then did the black community at the time.

 

[IM2]

Don’t know.



It’s not Marxist. That’s rubbish.


Don’t see the Republican Party with it’s nationalist fascist tilt doing much better.

Flacaltenn is full of crap. Nobody said what he claims and furthermore, it was a Jew who wrote the article.

shall I just delete the entire post? Or are you done with the flaming now? IM2

 

[Coyote]

Flacaltenn is full of crap. Nobody said what he claims and furthermore, it was a Jew who wrote the article.

No he isn’t, he makes some good points . The Jews were in the forefront of the Civil Rights movement, so why the antisemitism? Why now? For the same reason, why the racism on the part of some Jews?

 

[IM2]

Good luck retaining them in the Dem party that is anti-religion, not a supporter of Israel, and as "woke" as they have become.

Democrats are truly spiritual, not pretenders like Republicans, they do support Israel and what you call woke, isn't.

 

[Lisa558]

As bad as it was, the antisemitism in this country was not as bad as the legalized racism and abuse under Jim Crowe. You constantly downplay that but it’s part of the whole picture. It is a fact that Jews, had more opportunities then did the black community at the time.

And you constantly downplay that Jews were living through an unbelievable nightmare - their own relatives were being murdered - and they STILL managed to move from poverty to the middle class ima generation.

Your mistake is comparing the 1940s Jews to 1940s blacks (and as o mentioned, my dad had blacks in his college class), when the comparison is Jews of the 1940s - advancing so quickly despite having their grandparents killed WHILE they were studying for college, and knowing that many colleges had anti-Jew quote to the blacks of the last two generations - since the 70s, knowing that they would be getting favoritism in the college admissions office,

So the question is: how why Jews in the 1940s, under the shadow of Hitler and losing their own relatives due to Jew-hate, and with the disadvantage of Jew-hate at the college admissions office, able to become successful in a SINGLE generation when blacks, starting from the 1970s, and with the advantage of pro-black favoritism, still have double the poverty rate, after TWO generations?

Answer: high out of wedlock birth rate and a far less emphasis on education compares to Jews.

 

[Coyote]

1) Jews were NOT treated like any white group. They found themselves unable to get hired because they were Jewish, and they found themselves facing anti-Jew quotas at colleges. You are denying the antisemitism that Jews faced, and lumping them in as “all,other whites,” because it helps you deny that a persecuted minority was able to succeed so well.

Not denying anything, just pointing out the antisemitism in this country was not as bad as the racism, which was legislated by law.

Quotas in schools are bad, but at least they could GET into schools.

Did they get the GI bill?

Were they prevented from voting or murdered for trying to vote?

The reason I “lump them in” with other whites is not that they haven’t suffered persecution, it is that at the end of the day, they look any other white person. Most blacks do not have that option.

2) That “legacy” you mention, to the extent it existed (my father didn’t get the GI bill, for example, and had the same chance as blacks in his college class) should have disappeared by now, given that blacks have had two generations of favored college admissions while Jews moved up in one generation - and with the opposite of favored admissions.

I still say it’s resentment against a successful minority. As another poster upthread noted, you see it against Asians as well.

 

[Lisa558]

I’m not saying blacks don’t like me. I am saying that antisemitism is more prevalent among blacks, and to a great degree, as evidenced by studies.

The fact that you are hunting up stories and quoting anti-Jew black authors is proof of that. You are doing EXACTLY what you accuse others of.

 

[IM2]

No he isn’t, he makes some good points . The Jews were in the forefront of the Civil Rights movement, so why the antisemitism? Why now? For the same reason, why the racism on the part of some Jews?

That's your opinion. I disagree. The articles I posted were from JEWs. You talk about Jews being in the forefront of the civil rights movement but blacks stood with Jews against Nazi Germany when most white ethnic Americans would not long before the civil rights movement and that keeps gettting ignored in these discussions. And instead of asking about anto semitism, why not ask about the long history of anti black racism among members of the Jewish community?

 

[Lisa558]

No he isn’t, he makes some good points . The Jews were in the forefront of the Civil Rights movement, so why the antisemitism? Why now? For the same reason, why the racism on the part of some Jews?

It’s not a balance. There might be some racism on the part of some Jews, but the antisemitism coming from blacks is much more prevalent.

But it’s a good question. Why, after Jews were willing to sacrifice their lives to support blacks in the Civil Rights movement, are so many blacks antisemitic? Why, like IM2, are they discrediting Jews for their life-risking efforts during the Civil Rights movement, and they now saying Jews did it for selfish reasons?

I could broaden the question. Why, after all the progress and calm of the 80s and 90s and 00s, are blacks now demanding reparations and perpetuating this “oppression narrative”? It’s not like slavery is a new issue.

My fear, as the economy worsens and a recession takes hold, antisemitism will increase even more. Jews have been made scapegoats throughout history, and a bad economy - like in the lead-up to Hitler - enables antisemites to turn up the hate even further. Threads like this, by a black intending to make Jews look bad, don’t help.

 

[Lisa558]

Quotas in schools are bad, but at least they could GET into schools.

And blacks could get into schools too. You are perpetuating the false idea that blacks couldn’t get into colleges.

Did they get the GI bill?

My dad didn’t. Lots of Jews didn’t.

Were they prevented from voting or murdered for trying to vote?

No, they we’re murdered for being Jewish.

The reason I “lump them in” with other whites is not that they haven’t suffered persecution, it is that at the end of the day, they look any other white person. Most blacks do not have that option.

Actually, they don’t look like any other whitr person, and they have been discriminated against in ways that other white people havent.

 

[Coyote]

And you constantly downplay that Jews were living through an unbelievable nightmare - their own relatives were being murdered - and they STILL managed to move from poverty to the middle class ima generation.

I’m talking about the situation in our country only. It might helpful to point out that American Jews were no more willing to take in the hordes of East European Jews than any other Anerican at tbe time. They considered them dirty, ignorant, superstitious. Jews in America did not suffer through what those in Europe and Russia did, or what Blacks did in this country, something you relentlessly downplay.

Your mistake is comparing the 1940s Jews to 1940s blacks (and as o mentioned, my dad had blacks in his college class), when the comparison is Jews of the 1940s - advancing so quickly despite having their grandparents killed WHILE they were studying for college, and knowing that many colleges had anti-Jew quote to the blacks of the last two generations - since the 70s, knowing that they would be getting favoritism in the college admissions office,

Almost every discussion you bring this up.

So the question is: how why Jews in the 1940s, under the shadow of Hitler and losing their own relatives due to Jew-hate, and with the disadvantage of Jew-hate at the college admissions office, able to become successful in a SINGLE generation when blacks, starting from the 1970s, and with the advantage of pro-black favoritism, still have double the poverty rate, after TWO generations?

The 1940’s and the 1970’s are a whole generation apart. How can prepare people from one with people from the other?