Zone1 A Brief Look at Blacks and Jews in America(take 2)

[IM2]

And let's address this garbage of resentment of Jews by blacks.

This is an example of the ability some here have to ignore complex things to create a claim in order to further a narrative. Jews were able tp start businesses in black communities because they got government backed business loans that blacks were denied. Some Jews proceeded to price gouge members of the black communities they had businesses in. There were Jews who were able to buy rental property in black communities and charged high prices while being slumlords. Some even participated in contract selling. These thngs created animosity. These things are also ignored here by white Jews and white conservatives. Instead we get the poor jewish victim of black anti semitism because JEWS were successful and blacks are not claim.

 

[Lisa558]

I’m talking about the situation in our country only. It might helpful to point out that American Jews were no more willing to take in the hordes of East European Jews than any other Anerican at tbe time. They considered them dirty, ignorant, superstitious. Jews in America did not suffer through what those in Europe and Russia did, or what Blacks did in this country, something you relentlessly downplay.

That’s not true. Jews in this country set up all sorts of relief programs to help newly arriving Jews.

Almost every discussion you bring this up.

Because it’s the most blatant example of systemic racism in existence today - and it’s against whites.

The 1940’s and the 1970’s are a whole generation apart. How can prepare people from one with people from the other?

Because that’s the appropriate comparison: Jews suffering horrific antisemitism moved up in a single generation. Blacks today, and for the past two generations, are experiencing nowhere NEAR the level of hatred that Jews did, and yet they are not moving up at anywhere near the same speed.

 

[Lisa558]

And let's address this garbage of resentment of Jews by blacks.

This is an example of the ability some here have to ignore complex things to create a claim in order to further a narrative. Jews were able tp start businesses in black communities because they got government backed business loans that blacks were denied. Some Jews proceeded to price gouge members of the black communities they had businesses in. There were Jews who were able to buy rental property in black communities and charged high prices while being slumlords. Some even participated in contract selling. These thngs created animosity. These things are also ignored here by white Jews and white conservatives. Instead we get the poor jewish victim of black anti semitism because JEWS were successful and blacks are not claim.

All you’re doing is showing your disdain and contempt for Jews.

Jews rented to blacks when others didn’t want them in their property…..they hired them when others didn’t want blacks in their place of business….and they died fighting for black civil rights.

But to you, the Jews were slumlords….the Jews exploited blacks by giving them jobs….and the Jews were selfish risking their lives for blacks down south.

You just hate everybody.

 

[Coyote]

It’s not a balance. There might be some racism on the part of some Jews, but the antisemitism coming from blacks is much more prevalent.

But it’s a good question. Why, after Jews were willing to sacrifice their lives to support blacks in the Civil Rights movement, are so many blacks antisemitic? Why, like IM2, are they discrediting Jews for their life-risking efforts during the Civil Rights movement, and they now saying Jews did it for selfish reasons?

I could broaden the question. Why, after all the progress and calm of the 80s and 90s and 00s, are blacks now demanding reparations and perpetuating this “oppression narrative”? It’s not like slavery is a new issue.

My fear, as the economy worsens and a recession takes hold, antisemitism will increase even more. Jews have been made scapegoats throughout history, and a bad economy - like in the lead-up to Hitler - enables antisemites to turn up the hate even further. Threads like this, by a black intending to make Jews look bad, don’t help.

Actually, reparations is not new, they been arguing for it a long and has nothing to do with present circumstances but with righting historic wrongs.


On your last paragraph, I worry about that too. But I’ve worried about it for much longer than just recently. Over the last decade we’ve been hearing increasingly strident nativist rhetoric demonizing immigrants and Muslims in America, by groups trying to portray themselves as mainstream and pro-America, and pretending they are no longer anti-Semitic. But it’s still there, leaking out in anti-Semitic memes and tweets. Get rid of the immigrants and Muslims, and the Jews are next. Minorities make easy scapegoats even when they are well integrated.

 

[flacaltenn]

I'm not going to argue with you about this flacaltenn. Your assessment is incorrect. It's just that simple

What motivated you to post sketchy opinion on how Jewish involvement in Civil Rights movement was ALL SELF INTEREST? The author NEVER PROVES THIS. He ALLEDGES it was said somewhere, but no time, place, or date by ONE Rabbi who LATER sat on the NAACP Board of Directors.

Self interest in allying for common causes IS THE NORM. That's why the Big 3 at the Yalta conference INCLUDED STALIN. Was not because Churchill and FDR were Commie fans or approved of ANYTHING that was happening in Russia.

You focused on the "special privileges" that the Jews got in the early 20th century of America. There WERE NO special privileges for Jews. They MIGHT have been INCLUDED in some WHITE privileges that were instituted, but the discrimination against them was a burden that OTHER whites did not have to carry.

The COMMON CAUSE was discrimination in EMPLOYMENT, HOUSING, access to clubs and private institutions like country clubs or political office. The early 20th century had the IRISH, the ASIANS, and other ethnic groups in similar binds.

I dont think you read this article critically. Because there's NO MEAT to assertions made in there.

 

[Lisa558]

We are reading racism from a person who does it then complains about anti semitism. If that's not cognitive dissonance, nothing is.

I’ve said nothing racist. To you, anyone who doesn’t blame whites (or anyone else) for problems in the black community, but instead holds blacks responsible for their own actions, is a racist.

You, on the other hand, started a thread to disparage Jews, despite how they supported blacks - more, were willing to DIE for blacks - in the search for civil rights, and were often the only people willing to hire or rent to blacks. In each of these cases, you ascribe a sinister reason.

Talk about cognitive dissonance!

 

[Coyote]

That’s not true. Jews in this country set up all sorts of relief programs to help newly arriving Jews.

It’s true, but actually more nuanced then what I said and also tied to antisemitism in the US.

How to explain the ‘timid’ reaction of American Jewish leaders to Kristallnacht?

Amid the worst pogrom to take place in Germany since the Middle Ages, most US Jewish communal leaders told their constituents to keep quiet

www.timesofisrael.com

This one is interesting, starting around pg 18 it talks about tbe difficulty in getting American Jewish leaders to speak out about what was happening.

https://dc.etsu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1802&context=etd

 

[IM2]

What motivated you to post sketchy opinion on how Jewish involvement in Civil Rights movement was ALL SELF INTEREST? The author NEVER PROVES THIS. He ALLEDGES it was said somewhere, but no time, place, or date by ONE Rabbi who LATER sat on the NAACP Board of Directors.

Self interest in allying for common causes IS THE NORM. That's why the Big 3 at the Yalta conference INCLUDED STALIN. Was not because Churchill and FDR were Commie fans or approved of ANYTHING that was happening in Russia.

You focused on the "special privileges" that the Jews got in the early 20th century of America. There WERE NO special privileges for Jews. They MIGHT have been INCLUDED in some WHITE privileges that were instituted, but the discrimination against them was a burden that OTHER whites did not have to carry.

The COMMON CAUSE was discrimination in EMPLOYMENT, HOUSING, access to clubs and private institutions like country clubs or political office. The early 20th century had the IRISH, the ASIANS, and other ethnic groups in similar binds.

There were ONLY six Jews ever to serve in US Congress prior to 1949 !!!!

I dont think you read this article critically. Because there's NO MEAT to assertions made in there.

I read everything I link critically. There was nothing sketchy. That was an article written by a member of the Jewish Community. My comment was that the relationship between Jews and blacks is complex. Stop thinking you can tell me what was. Not when you are stupid enough to buuy into the lie of liberals telling blacks what to think. What you say the common cause was is not so, the Irish,Italians, Poles and other white etnic groups were not in similar binds. I have posted information debunking that claim consistently. I don't care how many Jews served in congress before 1949 because Jews could chang their names. You do all this work trying to show me that the racism I speak about wasn't so but my question is:

Why are you not questioning modern racism from a member of the Jewish community in this and other threads?

Do you have some problem addressing that? Or is it that you believe the same things. I know what I am talking about flacaltenn and I'm getting kind of tired of a condescending attitude coming from a person who knows less than I do about this and who also ignores things coming from whites, never questions them, then decides he can lecture me about things I've studied for more than half my life.

 

[Lisa558]

It’s true, but actually more nuanced then what I said and also tied to antisemitism in the US.

How to explain the ‘timid’ reaction of American Jewish leaders to Kristallnacht?

Amid the worst pogrom to take place in Germany since the Middle Ages, most US Jewish communal leaders told their constituents to keep quiet

www.timesofisrael.com

This one is interesting, starting around pg 18 it talks about tbe difficulty in getting American Jewish leaders to speak out about what was happening.

https://dc.etsu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1802&context=etd

I skimmed it - it’s late and I’m getting tired, but it definitely deserves a close read - but at first glance, it seems that Jews were afraid of the reaction if it appeared they were standing up too strongly for Jews, given how much antisemitism existed here in America.

This is a sad phenomenon, as I see the same thing happen in current times. There is such antisemitism brewing under the surface that Jews are afraid that standing up for themselves will bring it out and make it worse.

We saw this with the case I mentioned to you - a black Democrat repeated an anti-Jew Rothschild conspiracy theory, advanced by Farrakhan, in which he blamed “greedy Jews” for the snowy weather. The response to this was mixed among Jews: many wanted him to apologize, at a minimum (some thought repeating antisemitic crap warranted his resignation), but others thought that “making a fuss” about it would just engender more Jew-hate.

This seems to be something with Jews that you don’t see with blacks. Blacks are hitting back hard against racism - too hard, IMO, as seen with the BLM riots - yet so many Jews are afraid to stand up for themselves.

 

[Lisa558]

I read everything I link critically. There was nothing sketchy. That was an article written by a member of the Jewish Community. My comment was that the relationship between Jews and blacks is complex. Stop thinking you can tell me what was. Not when you are stupid enough to buuy into the lie of liberals telling blacks what to think. What you say the common cause was is not so, the Irish,Italians, Poles and other white etnic groups were not in similar binds. I have posted information debunking that claim consistently. I don't care how many Jews served in congress before 1949 because Jews could chang their names. You do all this work trying to show me that the racism I speak about wasn't so but my question is:

Why are you not questioning modern racism from a member of the Jewish community in this and other threads?

Do you have some problem addressing that? Or is it that you believe the same things. I know what I am talking about flacaltenn and I'm getting kind of tired of a condescending attitude coming from a person who knows less than I do about this and who also ignores things coming from whites, never questions them, then decides he can lecture me about things I've studied for more than half my life.

Stop it! I‘ve said nothing racist. I just disagree with you. You are just angry that a Jew isn’t submitting to your rage and bigotry.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Stop it! Ive said nothing racist. I just disagree with you.

By IM2’s definition, that’s the quintisential act of racism.

 

[flacaltenn]

Don’t know.



It’s not Marxist. That’s rubbish.


Don’t see the Republican Party with it’s nationalist fascist tilt doing much better.

Ignore the smoking ruins of your party at your own peril.

Democrats are truly spiritual, not pretenders like Republicans, they do support Israel and what you call woke, isn't.

Must be why they think conservatives are fixed on "God, Guns and the Bible" eh?? Remember that line?

Black Lives Matter comes out in solidarity with Palestinians

Black Lives Matter has thrown its full support behind the Palestinians in the ongoing bloody conflict between their Hamas backers and Israel.

nypost.com

The Blogs: Black Lives Matter’s Jewish Problem – In Their Own Words

From the blog of Joshua Washington at The Times of Israel

blogs.timesofisrael.com

In December 2019, BLM co-founder Patrisse Cullors stated in an Al Jazeera interview that:

We realized we need to take our (Palestinian) solidarity a step further. We need to be more public. And so one of the first delegations that went to Palestine was led by the Dream Defenders. It was folks from Ferguson, folks from Black Lives Matter, folks from Dream Defenders, and we went on a solidarity trip… And [we] took several delegations to Palestine after that, and I think in some ways have been laying the foundation for the more public face in solidarity. And I think it’s been incredibly powerful for our movement.

Fairfax, Los Angeles is another prominent example, as one of BLM’s most senior organizers, Professor Melina Abdullah, led the rally that turned into a violent demonstration against one of the oldest Jewish communities in LA. The synagogue and Jewish owned stores were vandalized, and the violence was so bad that Rabbi Shimon Raichik, a Chabad Rabbi in Los Angeles, wrote:

It’s no coincidence that the riots here escalated in Fairfax, the icon of the Jewish community. I saw the Watts and the Rodney King riots. They never touched a synagogue or house of prayer. The graffiti showed blatant antisemitism. It’s Kristallnacht all over again.”

Many in the Jewish community have expressed their desire to support BLM, but hesitate as obscenities about the Jews are found spray painted on Jewish schools, stores, and synagogues.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wow dude.. Think there is some "SELF-INTEREST" involved in BLM siding AGAINST Jews and Israel? YOU -- should check into that.

 

[flacaltenn]

’m talking about the situation in our country only. It might helpful to point out that American Jews were no more willing to take in the hordes of East European Jews than any other Anerican at tbe time. They considered them dirty, ignorant, superstitious. Jews in America did not suffer through what those in Europe and Russia did, or what Blacks did in this country, something you relentlessly downplay.

Wow. This is news to me. What period was that? I taught Sunday School and read all the resources and NEVER heard about Jews standing in way of E. Euro immigration because "they considered them dirty, ignorant, superstitious". Other WHITE ETHNIC GROUPS did this tho.

 

[Coyote]

Wow. This is news to me. What period was that? I taught Sunday School and read all the resources and NEVER heard about Jews standing in way of E. Euro immigration because "they considered them dirty, ignorant, superstitious". Other WHITE ETHNIC GROUPS did this tho.

It was an article I read sometime back, I’ll have to find it.

 

[IM2]

If someone asked you to name the most urgent crisis facing the Jewish community, “anti-blackness” or “intra-community racism” might not be among your first thoughts.

But it should be. That’s because anti-blackness in the Jewish community is pushing black Jews out. Countless black Jews have made the difficult decision to leave Judaism completely, no longer identifying as Jewish.

Why did they leave those identities behind? They could no longer deal with the constant racism.

Opinion | Black Jews Are Being Chased Out Of the Jewish Community By Racism. Here Are Their Stories.

Anti-blackness in the Jewish community is pushing black Jews out. Countless black Jews have made the decision to leave Judaism because of racism

forward.com

‘Racism is very prevalent in the Jewish community.’ A Black, Jewish, gay leader speaks out.​

Black-Jewish relations, of course, have a complicated history. Though the two minority communities partnered during the civil rights movement, racial and class tensions later developed in some of the urban neighborhoods they shared. Ever since, their trajectories have diverged: While Jewish integration into America is more or less complete, the Black community continues to fight for greater equity and equality.

“Racism is very prevalent in the Jewish community.” A Black, Jewish, gay leader speaks out.

"Racism is very prevalent in the Jewish community." A Black, Jewish, gay leader speaks out.

forward.com

In the year after she graduated from rabbinical school, Rabbi Sandra Lawson found herself the finalist for two congregational leadership positions.

The boards of both synagogues were enthusiastic about hiring her.

But when they presented Lawson to the entire congregation, the membership backed down, acknowledging that while she was obviously qualified, they were not ready for a Black rabbi.
February 12, 2021

American Jews are taking a hard look at racism in their midst

(RNS) — The challenge for white American Jews is to understand that they can be both targets of white supremacy and also accomplices.

religionnews.com

My father fought in WW2 and took a bullet in the shoulder fighting to save Jews from Hitler. One of my uncles I never got to see, because he died in that war. So let's recognize that with the blacks should be grateful to Jews because they were in the civil rights movement and call out the racism repeated by Jews in this forum.

Blacks face Jewish racism then get called anti semites for calling it out. That's bullshit and it needs to end. And I am not talking about things said by some members of the NOI, because that crap is uncalled for.

 

[Lisa558]

Wow. This is news to me. What period was that? I taught Sunday School and read all the resources and NEVER heard about Jews standing in way of E. Euro immigration because "they considered them dirty, ignorant, superstitious". Other WHITE ETHNIC GROUPS did this tho.

American Jews set up ulpans (night schools for adults) to help the new Eastern European learn English, and they helped them find homes and jobs.

 

[Coyote]

It was an article I read sometime back, I’ll have to find it.

Wow. This is news to me. What period was that? I taught Sunday School and read all the resources and NEVER heard about Jews standing in way of E. Euro immigration because "they considered them dirty, ignorant, superstitious". Other WHITE ETHNIC GROUPS did this tho.

Coming to America: Divides in the Jewish-American Community - Museum at Eldridge Street

This blog post was written by Museum intern Brendan Hyatt. During the height of Eastern European Jewish immigration to the United States – the phenomenon which drove the establishment of the Eldridge Street Synagogue – opinions on how the newly massive Jewish population ought to ... Read more

www.eldridgestreet.org

 

[Coyote]

American Jews set up ulpans (night schools for adults) to help the new Eastern European learn English, and they helped them find homes and jobs.

Eventually…but it wasn’t that clean cut.

 

[Lisa558]

Coming to America: Divides in the Jewish-American Community - Museum at Eldridge Street

This blog post was written by Museum intern Brendan Hyatt. During the height of Eastern European Jewish immigration to the United States – the phenomenon which drove the establishment of the Eldridge Street Synagogue – opinions on how the newly massive Jewish population ought to ... Read more

www.eldridgestreet.org

That was a blog written by a young, liberal college student. Colleges are breeding grounds for antisemitism these days. Just saying.

 

[Lisa558]

Eventually…but it wasn’t that clean cut.

So why focus on how perhaps some Jews weren’t welcoming to other Jews, when in fact the majority of Jews bent over backwards to help them adjust to their new world? Just another way to make Jews look bad?

What about the racist attitudes that light-skinned blacks have toward dark-skinned blacks?

Why has this thread turned into one criticizing Jews, and trying to make them look bad? I don’t hear liberals willing to utter one word of criticism about blacks, but they are happy to post articles making Jews look bad.

And while you’re at it, do you have any problem with IM2’s attacks on me, in a Zone 1 thread?