Zone1 A Brief Look at Blacks and Jews in America(take 2)

[flacaltenn]

And I'm certain they know more about this than the people who wrote that stuff you used from Wikkipedia.

Your "certainty" on stuff is not absolute. ISRAEL where that org exists is in a DIFFERENT environment than Jews in America,. Opinions are MORE diverse in Israel about "jewish issues" than they are HERE in the US. So YOU "being certain" that this ONE AUTHOR in ONE of hundreds of Policy institutes in Israel writing about the AMERICAN Jewish experience is kinda sad and cute at the same time.

Then we have your comment about blacks being resentful of jewish progress. In nearly every post you have made to me you seem to think you get to claim a false black victimhood which is a term made up by white racists, or that racism is overused, another claim made by white racists.

The relationship between blacks and Jews is CONSTANTLY DEGRADING over the decades since the NAACP formed and rights marches/voter registration drives where Jews were on the front lines. I just posted how BLM joined UNCONDITIONALLY with antisemitic anti-Israel forces. WAS THAT OUT OF SELF INTEREST perhaps? I'm sure I'd find at least ONE black author I could quote. Black victimhood was NOT made up. It made a lot of MEDIA stars out of black activists shaking down govts and corporations for cash. What are REPARATIONS FOR IF THERE ARE NO VICTIMS?

You deny deny deny -- but youve LOST THAT argument half a dozen times already, Because you never OFFERED any counter-evidence/arguments. Just flailed away at insinuating racism for arguing AGAINST you. Doesn't work that way. Answer my question above in bold HONESTLY and we'll go back to your victimhood thread and have a REAL discussion.

But what is frequently ignored is the degree to which these government programs helped whites and left blacks behind, and how that related to creating a legacy to pass on to the next generation.

That's the subject of DOZENS of other IM2 screeds in this forum. Why is it neccessary to screw with the history of the Civil Rights movement and Jewish involvement -- JUST to take a SEPARATE poke at Jews? I suppose he's already done the Irish, the Germans, the Italians and Chinese - so why the heck not?

 

[flacaltenn]

And let's address this garbage of resentment of Jews by blacks.

This is an example of the ability some here have to ignore complex things to create a claim in order to further a narrative. Jews were able tp start businesses in black communities because they got government backed business loans that blacks were denied. Some Jews proceeded to price gouge members of the black communities they had businesses in. There were Jews who were able to buy rental property in black communities and charged high prices while being slumlords. Some even participated in contract selling. These thngs created animosity. These things are also ignored here by white Jews and white conservatives. Instead we get the poor jewish victim of black anti semitism because JEWS were successful and blacks are not claim.

Oh here we go.. Thought there was no black victimhood. NOW you're victims of successful Jewish landlords? Thought there was NO black resentment of Jews being successful in the 2nd or 3rd generation as Americans? Then where the heck did that post come from if not RESENTMENT or maybe hate?

Never said blacks are not successful. I'd be lying. There's a fair portion of the brother/sisterhood who live VERY well. Usually the ones focused on THEIR FUTURES and not grieving/obsessing about the PAST 300 years.

 

[Coyote]

That was a blog written by a young, liberal college student. Colleges are breeding grounds for antisemitism these days. Just saying.

It was written for the museum he was interning for, it’s not antisemitic.

Welcome to Eldridge Street - Museum at Eldridge Street

Experience Sanctuary Within the City Our Museum Step inside history and explore an icon of New York City resilience. The Museum at Eldridge Street tells the story of the 19th-century Eldridge Street Synagogue and the Jewish immigrants who built it. Our signature self-guided tour invites ... Read...

www.eldridgestreet.org

 

[Coyote]

So why focus on how perhaps some Jews weren’t welcoming to other Jews, when in fact the majority of Jews bent over backwards to help them adjust to their new world? Just another way to make Jews look bad?

Why do you ignore the fact that the many (not “some” didn’t want them, but finally resigned themselves to Americanizing them out of admitted self interest? Not making Jews look bad, simply humanizing them. They aren’t a monolith, they are as good/bad/fallible as any other group of people. They didn’t want East European (heavily Marxist and liberal) riff raff moving into their neighborhood causing problems and making them look bad.

What about the racist attitudes that light-skinned blacks have toward dark-skinned blacks?

Yup. That to.

Why has this thread turned into one criticizing Jews, and trying to make them look bad? I don’t hear liberals willing to utter one word of criticism about blacks, but they are happy to post articles making Jews look bad.

It’s history.

And while you’re at it, do you have any problem with IM2’s attacks on me, in a Zone 1 thread?

Report them please.

 

[flacaltenn]

I read everything I link critically. There was nothing sketchy. That was an article written by a member of the Jewish Community. My comment was that the relationship between Jews and blacks is complex. Stop thinking you can tell me what was. Not when you are stupid enough to buuy into the lie of liberals telling blacks what to think.

WHOA bro -- I ASKED what the EVIDENCE AND PROOF WAS that all that Jewish bonding with the Civil Rights movement was ENTIRELY OUT OF SELF INTEREST. The Author never PROVED that. You NEVER proved that. It was the MAIN POINT of the article. If you read it CRITICALLY -- you would know that.


Jews KNOW they are white. They dont need some grad student scholar in Israel to point out their white privileges. We are NOT a race. We're a "people" with common religious/cultural heritage and a long history of common roots. We are DISTINCT ENOUGH as white people to have been persecuted and tossed into ghettos, shettles, concentration camps and FORCED SEGREGATION in dozens of countries.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

Oh please, try and pull that crap on the “useful idiots.” As you note, I’m not stupid.

Government money COMES from taxpayers. And when you collect taxes on everyone, and then redistribute it to the 14% of people who are blacks, everyone who isn’t black is paying for it. And most of the non-blacks are whites.

Nooo, I'm pretty sure I indicated that you are, but that's neither here nor there.

Did it ever occur to you that black people have been taxed same as whites but received inferior goods and services compared to what they paid in?

Have you forgotten that SCOTUS determined that "separate but equal [and most times inferior]" was a violation of the U.S. Constitution? That means that all of the things that were done to black people under the doctrine of separate but equal resulting in lawful desegregation was a violation of the rights of black people impacted everywhere in the U.S.

I know because I haven't researched specifically how violations of Constitutional rights for a century or more should be remediated but I'm pretty sure there are no statutory damages, at least not the violations we're talking about which affected an entire race of people. Reparations seem to be the most appropriate response IF the United States is sincere in making amends. There's not a whole lot of evidence that they are since they always manage to come up with reasons not to move forward or why the task is impossible.

Nonetheless, aside from all that, I hope it hurts like hell when it does finally happen, in fact I'm sure it will.

 

[IM2]

Flacaltenn you continue ignoring the role Jewish racism has had in whatever deterioration you claim. Secondly, if racism csn't be called out in this zone neither can anti semitism. If a white person cannot be called a racist, then blacks or anyone else cannot be called Anti Semites. And again, blacks stood with Jews during a time when other white ethnic groups weren't even as there were some jewish businesspeople ripping blacks off. Stop ignoring this fact. I say there is no black victimhood and you know exactly what I mean. I am talking about the made up victimhood those luke you put on us for simply stating our experience and what white racism has caused. Opposing that and stating that truth is not victmhood.

 

[flacaltenn]

Coming to America: Divides in the Jewish-American Community - Museum at Eldridge Street

This blog post was written by Museum intern Brendan Hyatt. During the height of Eastern European Jewish immigration to the United States – the phenomenon which drove the establishment of the Eldridge Street Synagogue – opinions on how the newly massive Jewish population ought to ... Read more

www.eldridgestreet.org

Now ponder the situation of the author here. Works for a foundation that built this ESQUISITE Synagogue in the late 1800s. Rivals many of the houses of worship UPTOWN for christians. All that is described is a "class war" caused by "generous immigration quotas". Pictures in the UPTOWN people's heads about getting standing room only in their TEMPLE lined with all those brand new immigrants.

Author NEVER quotes dates. Just refers to "earlier and later", but this GRAPH gives some perspective.

In ONE LIFETIME -- the number of Jews in America increased (1890 -- 1930) more than 10FOLD!!! That's the period MY family came thru Ellis Island and they were TOO BUSY SURVIVING to CARE about what the elitists uptown thought about them.

That synagogue was built WHEN? About the time of the influx. AND more than 80% of those newer JEWS came thru NYCity. They didn't have the infrastructure and the new-comers walked squarely into the GREAT DEPRESSION.

Author lacks a lot of common sense to NOT GIVE the context and timing. Probably too young to have gotten the feel for the history. And I'm CERTAIN the story changed DRASTICALLY, when the NYTimes was writing adoring puff pieces on Hitler coming to power and those EARLY German jews' RELATIVES were LOCKED into Germany with this madman. No whining then about quotas and unwashed masses THEN -- I ASSURE YOU...

 

[flacaltenn]

Flacaltenn you continue ignoring the role Jewish racism has had in whatever deterioration you claim. Secondly, if racism csn't be called out in this zone neither can anti semitism. I

WHAT "jewish racism"? Owning a bunch of property for rent? Renting to blacks in NYCity when folks like Trumps' dad WOULD NOT? Relations have NEVER been this bad between blacks and jews in general. And STILL jews are nowhere NEAR the biggest white hater group. It's getting WORSE because of POLITICAL splits in the party that used to have TOTAL LOYALTY from BOTH GROUPS. And now they wont.

You can call out racism AND antisemitism on this board. Even in Zone1 -- but you can never ACCUSE another member of either personally. You can attack their assertions and show WHY somebodys' statement can be construed as bias, racism, etc. But - no personal attacks on THEM.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

He gained an education the same way the blacks in his class (late 1940s) gained theirs: by making the right choices, being motivated, having discipline, and of course being smart.

Why keep denying the obvious: masses of poor, uneducated Jewish immigrants arrived here, and a generation their children were almost all successful. That you keep denying that it could be done without assistance just speaks to your resentment that a persecuted minority can move from poverty to the middle class in a single generation.

You're being inconsistent again and even more vague if that is even possible. You mean to tell me you have no idea how he did it?

I'm not asking you to keep rehashing the same claim over & over again. I'm asking you how SPECIFICALLY he did it? Such as in the case of someone wanting to become a doctor or lawyer today and they are penniless and uneducated, how do you get into a good law school or go to medical school without an education? How do you get someone to pay your tuition and expenses while in school without the stellar grades you insist black people didn't have due to affirmative action in spite of obvious accomplishments? I'm asking you what the plan was, your euphemisms regarding choices, motivation, discipline sound like something coming from a child because you are unable to explain how they work in action. You can have all the discipline in the world but if you have nothing to apply it to or the means to acquire the things you need, you won't be able to accomplish a whole lot.

And if any of the money came from government grants or state or federal funding, that money came from the taxpayers and you were just bitching about you not wanting "white people" paying reparations to blacks for all of the unconstitutional violations of our rights. Such as our taxes going into funds to pay for white students to attend schools that we were legally barred from.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

But in the end, blacks would be net gainers from all the taxes collected, and whites net losers.

Say there is a neighborhood of 100 families, 10% black and 90% white, and $1000 is collected from each of them for reparations to blacks. The $100,000 collected would be distributed among the 10 black families.

Subtracting out the $1000 they paid in, blacks would be getting $9000. Whites would be out $1000. The whites paid the cost of reparations.

It's funny how you all weren't the least bit concerned with the concept of EQUITY when the net gain was almost exclusively going to whites.

 

[flacaltenn]

It’s history.

It's OPINION in the OPost. Not proven opinion meant to stir the pot and queer up the ACTUAL HISTORY of jewish alliances with the Civil Rights movement. OF COURSE alliances are made up of MUTUAL INTEREST. So 2 SELF-INTERESTED parties decide to join arm and go combat something together.

It's so fundamental and yet this ESCAPES the "scholar" from Israel who was writing this. BLM ALLIED 1000% with the Palestinian cause. Just posted the links. THERE IS YOUR MARXIST SUPPORT.

Gives BLM the image of having BROAD based support at the expense of allowing antisemitic riots and pillaging to take place with their blessing. Not a good direction for black interests.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

Then why promulgate distrust and hatred of Jews? Lumping them with ALL whites just to infer they NEVER SUPPORTED the civil rights movement strongly -- is just pathethic.

THIS is why the modern day Marxist reincarnation of the Democrat party is bleeding support from Jews, Blacks, Hispanics, Asians. Because there's too many buses lined up to toss the NON-BELIEVERS under.



So Jews get their "ally card" cancelled 50 years later for being "self-serving" whites after traveling the same ROAD for anti-discrimination with blacks for all that time? Kinda fickle and suspicious in my opinion. Jews got no "special benefits" or credit points from govt as a minority other than constantly changing immigration quotas.. Good luck retaining them in the Dem party that is anti-religion, not a supporter of Israel, and as "woke" as they have become.

Ask Lisa if affirmative action has assisted her or if the Civil Rights Act of 1964 applies to her

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

Blacks and leftists are trying to deny the extent to which Jews supported them during the Civil Rights movement - risking and even GIVING their lives for it - because:

a) it kills the victimhood mantra being elevated to a cult-like status in which they insist everyone was against them and nobody lifted a finger to help, but even more importantly….

b) they resent that a downtrodden minority, persecuted for millenia and suffering the most horrific antisemitism just 80 years ago (I still meet Holocaust survivors) can be in abject poverty in one generation and in middle-class comfort the next with nothing more than their motivation, discipline, hard work, and good values.

Finally, as far as Jews getting benefits, plenty of them didn’t get ANYTHING that wasn’t also available to blacks. My father did not get the GI bill, and yet he was in college just the same as his black classmates.

Did your father serve?

 

[flacaltenn]

It's funny how you all weren't the least bit concerned with the concept of EQUITY when the net gain was almost exclusively going to whites.

Economic viability for ANY group is NEVER "Zero sum game". Meaning that there is NO PIE to slice and dole out and share. The economy USUALLY GROWS all the time. My parents success did not ROB any black people. BUT -- Blacks were robbed largely by govt initiated programs to ENCOURAGE economic growth that excluded them. Whole CITIES were built to segregate them in isolation from the REST of the economy.

Reparations not being the topic here, but JEWS were robbed by ATTITUDES of christians and other whites of jobs, housing, private clubs and schools, etc. AND largely worked around that to become the MIDDLE CLASS that they were in the old country.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

As bad as it was, the antisemitism in this country was not as bad as the legalized racism and abuse under Jim Crowe. You constantly downplay that but it’s part of the whole picture. It is a fact that Jews, had more opportunities then did the black community at the time.

Not only did they have more OPPORTUNITIES than blacks because they are WHITE and NOT BLACK, but they also have been subjected to antisemitism for about 1/4 of the time that blacks have had to deal with anti-black discrimination - barely 100 years versus 400 plus years.

It's not just how horrible any type of race based discrimination and violence is, it's also how long it's been going on that determines the degree of damage and impact of the victims.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

Economic viability for ANY group is NEVER "Zero sum game". Meaning that there is NO PIE to slice and dole out and share. The economy USUALLY GROWS all the time. My parents success did not ROB any black people. BUT -- Blacks were robbed largely by govt initiated programs to ENCOURAGE economic growth that excluded them. Whole CITIES were built to segregate them in isolation from the REST of the economy.

Reparations not being the topic here, but JEWS were robbed by ATTITUDES of christians and other whites of jobs, housing, private clubs and schools, etc. AND largely worked around that to become the MIDDLE CLASS that they were in the old country.

Because they were/are WHITE and NOT BLACK.

Why are you all pretending that not just our government but most of society worked in concert to prevent the rise in society of the black race and that many of the advances made by whites were made at the expense of blacks?

WHY is that so hard to accept?

 

[IM2]

WHOA bro -- I ASKED what the EVIDENCE AND PROOF WAS that all that Jewish bonding with the Civil Rights movement was ENTIRELY OUT OF SELF INTEREST. The Author never PROVED that. You NEVER proved that. It was the MAIN POINT of the article. If you read it CRITICALLY -- you would know that.


Jews KNOW they are white. They dont need some grad student scholar in Israel to point out their white privileges. We are NOT a race. We're a "people" with common religious/cultural heritage and a long history of common roots. We are DISTINCT ENOUGH as white people to have been persecuted and tossed into ghettos, shettles, concentration camps and FORCED SEGREGATION in dozens of countries.

If Jews know they are white then stop trying to compare youraelves to blacks. Your whiteness afforded you things blacks could not get. Your distinctness allowed you to buy property in black communities that some Jews overcharged for rent. That's how and why Jews have been able to prosper. Therefore end all the malarkey, strawman arguments, denial and false equivalences.

I'm going to look into restrictive covenants because I don't think that involved Jews. And some Jews were white enough to change their last names, become property owners a hold racist beliefs. Ask Donald Sterling. Or Michael Allen Weiner, better known as Michael Savage.

The same Michael Savage who said Arabs were non human and who has ranted anti black bs on the radio for years. Then you have Mark Levin, another white Jew who has spewed racism for years.

Mark Levin Suggests Blacks Are Too Stupid To Vote Republican​

Mark Levin's Pitch For Blacks To Vote Republican Is Insulting

www.newshounds.us

How about Dennis Prager?

Dennis Prager Thinks It's 'Idiotic That You Cannot Say the N-Word,' Blames the 'Disgusting' Left​

Dennis Prager Thinks It's 'Idiotic That You Cannot Say the N-Word'

"The left has made it impossible to say the n-word any longer. That's disgusting, it's a farce. It's the only word that you can't say in the English language."

www.newsweek.com

Don't even try making the same comparison to the k word because there aren't a lot of blacks running around complaining because we can't use that word. And don't try using what Jessie Jackson said in the 1980's for a whataboutism.

Even as he said these things he whines about anti semitism.

Dennis Prager: Anti-Semitism Is the Worst Form of Racism Because It Seeks to Exterminate an Entire Ethnicity

'The left's condemnation of Israel and sympathy for Hamas is just another example of the morally inverted world the left has constructed.'

www.westernjournal.com

Then we have Ben Shapiro.

All of these are Jewish people with anti black views. Weiner,Levin, Prager and Shapiro all are on airwaves daily spewing racism. You won't find 4 black talk radio hosts who rant endlessly anti semitic views on an almost daily basis anywhere. But you blame the NAACP for the growing gulf. That's hilarious.

That's how white some Jews know they are. And then we have those like you trying to equalize the experience of blacks and jews in order to dismiss what blacks say about our experience.

 

[IM2]

Because they were/are WHITE and NOT BLACK.

Why are you all pretending that not just our government but most of society worked in concert to prevent the rise in society of the black race and that many of the advances made by whites were made at the expense of blacks?

WHY is that so hard to accept?

Cognitive dissonance sister.

 

[flacaltenn]

Because they were/are WHITE and NOT BLACK.

Why are you all pretending that not just our government but most of society worked in concert to prevent the rise in society of the black race and that many of the advances made by whites were made at the expense of blacks?

WHY is that so hard to accept?

I guess Mariyam, it's because most of the arguments here about HISTORICAL racism DO have to do with things like the grotesque GI bill snafu, or ALLOWING DISCRIMATION for 70 years until the CRA. Those examples are MAJOR IDENTIFIABLE IMPEDIMENTS to black achievement. We've got 100 years of a steadfast refusal to GRANT economic freedom by govt even tho the social freedom issue was fixed from the beginning. The IDEA of lack of equality in the MILITARY thru 2 World Wars is a CONCRETE MARKER of the major obstructions.

When you get into nasty ATTITUDES and PERSONAL biases, like in the Jewish version of discrimination, it gets into the weeds trying to point at MARKERS that block people from achievement socially or economically. Because NO one is going to let a minority of haters DICTATE their future. And there ARE paths around that. Thru churches, public institutions, MOVING to another location for example.