Zone1 A Brief Look at Blacks and Jews in America(take 2)

[flacaltenn]

Jews were not involved in civil rights because they were liberals – which they were – or because it was the right thing to do – which it was. What motivated Jews, rather, was Jewish self-interest. Wise and other Jewish leaders understood that the struggle for minority rights strengthened the fiber of society and benefited all minorities, especially (at the time) Jews.

That's an opinion. NOT a fact. EVERY sect of society should have "healthy self interest". If you are a target of discrimination, SOMETIMES your interests in FIXING that FIRST is a PREREQUISITE for helping other discriminated minorities in society.

But I reject FULLY the insinuations that Jews GAINED anything from joining in the black Civil Rights movement. And a DISHONEST historian COULD make the assertion that the NAACP and other black justice groups USED this early foundational support from the Jewish community and about 2000 started to BETRAY that help and support.

From the Wikipedia page on NAACP

The Jewish community contributed greatly to the NAACP's founding and continued financing.[37] Jewish historian Howard Sachar writes in his book A History of Jews in America that "In 1914, Professor Emeritus Joel Spingarn of Columbia University became chairman of the NAACP and recruited for its board such Jewish leaders as Jacob Schiff, Jacob Billikopf, and Rabbi Stephen Wise."[37]

THE SAME Rabbi Wise that your article dishonestly calls "self-serving".

Lee Alcorn controversy
During the 2000 presidential election, Lee Alcorn, president of the Dallas NAACP branch, criticized Al Gore's selection of Senator Joe Lieberman for his vice-presidential candidate because Lieberman was Jewish. On a gospel talk radio show on station KHVN, Alcorn stated, "If we get a Jew person, then what I'm wondering is, I mean, what is this movement for, you know? Does it have anything to do with the failed peace talks? ... So I think we need to be very suspicious of any kind of partnerships between the Jews at that kind of level because we know that their interest primarily has to do with money and these kind of things."[51]

NAACP President Kweisi Mfume immediately suspended Alcorn and condemned his remarks. Mfume stated,

I strongly condemn those remarks. I find them to be repulsive, anti-Semitic, anti-NAACP and anti-American. Mr. Alcorn does not speak for the NAACP, its board, its staff or its membership. We are proud of our long-standing relationship with the Jewish community and I personally will not tolerate statements that run counter to the history and beliefs of the NAACP in that regard.[51]

What HAPPENED to this alliance was that MODERN leaders of the NAACP did not have the historically HIGH -- objectivity and VISION of including Jews in "intersectional" bias and discrimination fights, because they started to RESENT the success of Jews in America.

And I need you to SPECIFICALLY TELL US - outside of IMMIGRATION priorities on Africa and European jews -- WHAT SPECIAL DEALS AND PROGRAMS Jews got from government that OTHER white groups did not?

Because this is another stinky assertion from your weak OPost article.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

Also, I didn’t say poverty to affluence in 10 years. i said poverty to the middle class in 10 years.

So if that happened explain it. How do you gain an education that allows you to work at a professional level and go from being penniless with no education in 10 years?

With no assistance of any kind? And money is not the only coin of the realm.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

And very few blacks alive today did, either, yet you are demanding that ****** fork over money to ALL blacks.

Quit playing stupid, you've been told repeatedly that it's the government who pays reparations not "******" lol

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

….could have been another Ahmaud Arbery.

It's the exact same attitude of entitlement.

 

[BackAgain]

Quit playing stupid, you've been told repeatedly that it's the government who pays reparations not "******" lol

The government never pays anything. Taxpayers do. Taxpayers of all colors. So some of the reparations would be paid for by people of color. I can’t help but see a little humor in that.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

.

Seriously ... Why are you talking to me about Lisa?
What is it you think I need to understand better ...

.

​

I'm not actually talking TO you I used your comment to make a point to the board.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

I don’t buy your premises. If you’re suggesting that some subsequent laws had an effect that was (intentionally or unintentionally) discriminatory on a race basis, then I have zero opposition to correcting them as warranted. That said, SOME of the arguments about racially disparate effects of some laws (like voting laws) are, in my view, disingenuous or wholly dishonest.

Jim Crow laws were legally and morally an abomination. They have been snuffed out.

I’ll go a bit further. I have (since a particular college course I took which was a kinda long time ago) understood and accepted and believed in this: there CAN be and ARE some present day effects of past discrimination. I believe that, to a degree, these ongoing problems deserve attention even though most people alive today had nothing to do with their causes.

Finally, I agree with you that there ARE some people here at USMB who support segregation. I wonder if you realize that those folks include some black members as well as some white members? In our society, even some colleges and universities buy into segregation. I maintain that they’re all wrong.

Are you aware that many of the black organizations were not created out of a desire by black people to segregate themselves, but because black people were excluded from participating in many events due and organizations due to racism. So the options were to miss out entirely or create a parallel event, organization, etc. for black people.

One thing you'll find is that almost all black organizations that I've encountered, while created for black people, do not exclude people of other races from their membership.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Quit playing stupid, you've been told repeatedly that it's the government who pays reparations not "******" lol

Where does the government get its money?

 

[BackAgain]

Are you aware that many of the black organizations were not created out of a desire by black people to segregate themselves, but because black people were excluded from participating in many events due and organizations due to racism.

Yes. Not exactly a revelation. And?

So the options were to miss out entirely or create a parallel event, organization, etc. for black people.

Ok. And?

One thing you'll find is that almost all black organizations that I've encountered, while created for black people, do not exclude people of other races from their membership.

No. I won’t find anything about what you have encountered. And I am also frankly not even discussing this sidebar conversation which you just deflected to. Instead, I was addressing the fact that (as we’ve seen in recent years in several college campuses), black students have been seeking not only separate dorms but separate classes. And college administrations have gone along with such shit.

On a slightly larger matter, I notice something else which I don’t know if you’ve noticed. But it used to be that the goal of liberals (on the matter of race and race relations) was to work to achieve a color blind society. However, those days seem to have gone into the dustbin of history. Nowadays the current thinking is very different. Now it appears that many of the liberal intelligentsia espouse the belief that we should NOT seek a colorblind society.

I guess I’m left wondering (partly at least) if the new antagonism toward “color blind society” as an objective correlates with the new expressed desire of some black people FOR segregation.

Frankly, I don’t view any of that as actually being progressive. I see it as quite regressive.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

Where does the government get its money?

I know where it doesn't get it.

There is no check box on the IRS 1040 form that asks "do you want some of your tax money to go to paying reparations to black people for all of the wrongs the government allowed or participated in"

 

[IM2]

That's an opinion. NOT a fact. EVERY sect of society should have "healthy self interest". If you are a target of discrimination, SOMETIMES your interests in FIXING that FIRST is a PREREQUISITE for helping other discriminated minorities in society.

But I reject FULLY the insinuations that Jews GAINED anything from joining in the black Civil Rights movement. And a DISHONEST historian COULD make the assertion that the NAACP and other black justice groups USED this early foundational support from the Jewish community and about 2000 started to BETRAY that help and support.

From the Wikipedia page on NAACP



THE SAME Rabbi Wise that your article dishonestly calls "self-serving".



What HAPPENED to this alliance was that MODERN leaders of the NAACP did not have the historically HIGH -- objectivity and VISION of including Jews in "intersectional" bias and discrimination fights, because they started to RESENT the success of Jews in America.

And I need you to SPECIFICALLY TELL US - outside of IMMIGRATION priorities on Africa and European jews -- WHAT SPECIAL DEALS AND PROGRAMS Jews got from government that OTHER white groups did not?

Because this is another stinky assertion from your weak OPost article.

Flacaltenn, I find it funny how you see that everything whites say are facts without question but you think you can question or doubt everything blacks say.

Jews are not a race. There are white jews, black jews, asians jews, etc. Whites who were jewish got the same benefits from government programs that excluded blacks as did every other white person who took advantage of the government programs after WW2. You are wrong about the NAACP. In fact your entire post is another fact free full of flacaltenn nonsense rant.

Do not quote me wikkipedia when I use quotes from Jewsh organizations annd leaders talking about the history btween blacks and jews.

The weak OP is from.

And I'm certain they know more about this than the people who wrote that stuff you used from Wikkipedia. Then we have your comment about blacks being resentful of jewish progress. In nearly every post you have made to me you seem to think you get to claim a false black victimhood which is a term made up by white racists, or that racism is overused, another claim made by white racists. You are on a crusade to eliminate people being called racists and white supremacists but its fine for blacks to be told how we play victim, or that somehow we resent success of other groups, that we are being made to believe all kinds of things by democrats, or how we blame racism for our failure (lol) even as the blacks here are more accomplished than 90 of the white people here based on the lack of knowledge I see posted about topics by some of the members including you.

Your lack of knowledge was displayed in another thread where you tried thinking that you were instructing me about reality when you declared that no black colleges were teaching engineering when you worked in Silicon Valley because I refused to agree that no discrimination existed there.

I don't know everything but when it comes to issues affect blacks and the overall impact of white racism on the black community, I know more than you do. Your post was weak and intellectually lazy. You are wrong in every aspect of your argument. This has been standard for you. Because when you ask somebody to explain to you how Jews benefitted, it shows that you are ignorant about such matters. Jews even admit to having benefitted from being white but you seem to believe that your lack of knowledge supercedes my 30 plus years of studying these matters and have the nerve to demand that I show you where Jews benefitted.

Go study American publicy policy as it pertains to race for about 20 years before you start to think you can call what I say weak.

 

[BackAgain]

I know where it doesn't get it.

It’s not a Mystery. The government gets its money from taxpayers.

There is no check box on the IRS 1040 form that asks "do you want some of your tax money to go to paying reparations to black people for all of the wrongs the government allowed or participated in"

Not needed. They also don’t ask if we want any sum to go to the department of education. But it goes there, too, all the same.

 

[IM2]

I know where it doesn't get it.

There is no check box on the IRS 1040 form that asks "do you want some of your tax money to go to paying reparations to black people for all of the wrongs the government allowed or participated in"

Yeah. The government got from the same place where it others reparations from.

 

[IM2]

"Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 prohibits employers from discriminating against individuals because of their religion (or lack of religious belief) in hiring, firing, or any other terms and conditions of employment. The law also prohibits job segregation based on religion, such as assigning an employee to a non-customer contact position because of actual or feared customer preference.

In addition, the Act requires employers to reasonably accommodate the religious beliefs and practices of applicants and employees, unless doing so would cause more than a minimal burden on the operation of the employer's business. A reasonable religious accommodation is any adjustment to the work environment that will allow the employee to practice his religion. Flexible scheduling, voluntary shift substitutions or swaps, job reassignments lateral transfers, and exceptions to dress or grooming rules are examples of accommodating an employee's religious beliefs."

Jews did indeed have something to gain by joining blacks in the Civil Rights Movement.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

But, Jewish comedians and entertainers are quite rare. On the whole, we're a serious and boring bunch.

Rare!!!! RARE!
Here is just the top 20.

The Top 20 Jewish Comedians of All-Time

It was hard to pick just 20.

www.mentalfloss.com

The Borsht circuit in New York was composed entirely of Jewish comedians.

 

[Lisa558]

Quit playing stupid, you've been told repeatedly that it's the government who pays reparations not "******" lol

Oh please, try and pull that crap on the “useful idiots.” As you note, I’m not stupid.

Government money COMES from taxpayers. And when you collect taxes on everyone, and then redistribute it to the 14% of people who are blacks, everyone who isn’t black is paying for it. And most of the non-blacks are whites.

 

[Lisa558]

So if that happened explain it. How do you gain an education that allows you to work at a professional level and go from being penniless with no education in 10 years?

With no assistance of any kind? And money is not the only coin of the realm.

He gained an education the same way the blacks in his class (late 1940s) gained theirs: by making the right choices, being motivated, having discipline, and of course being smart.

Why keep denying the obvious: masses of poor, uneducated Jewish immigrants arrived here, and a generation their children were almost all successful. That you keep denying that it could be done without assistance just speaks to your resentment that a persecuted minority can move from poverty to the middle class in a single generation.

 

[Lisa558]

The government never pays anything. Taxpayers do. Taxpayers of all colors. So some of the reparations would be paid for by people of color. I can’t help but see a little humor in that.

But in the end, blacks would be net gainers from all the taxes collected, and whites net losers.

Say there is a neighborhood of 100 families, 10% black and 90% white, and $1000 is collected from each of them for reparations to blacks. The $100,000 collected would be distributed among the 10 black families.

Subtracting out the $1000 they paid in, blacks would be getting $9000. Whites would be out $1000. The whites paid the cost of reparations.

 

[Coyote]

That's an opinion. NOT a fact. EVERY sect of society should have "healthy self interest". If you are a target of discrimination, SOMETIMES your interests in FIXING that FIRST is a PREREQUISITE for helping other discriminated minorities in society.

But I reject FULLY the insinuations that Jews GAINED anything from joining in the black Civil Rights movement. And a DISHONEST historian COULD make the assertion that the NAACP and other black justice groups USED this early foundational support from the Jewish community and about 2000 started to BETRAY that help and support.

From the Wikipedia page on NAACP



THE SAME Rabbi Wise that your article dishonestly calls "self-serving".



What HAPPENED to this alliance was that MODERN leaders of the NAACP did not have the historically HIGH -- objectivity and VISION of including Jews in "intersectional" bias and discrimination fights, because they started to RESENT the success of Jews in America.

And I need you to SPECIFICALLY TELL US - outside of IMMIGRATION priorities on Africa and European jews -- WHAT SPECIAL DEALS AND PROGRAMS Jews got from government that OTHER white groups did not?

Because this is another stinky assertion from your weak OPost article.

On the part you bolded - absolutely. In terms of the avenues of help available by the government, Jews were treated like any other white group.

I am not sure that the divisions between Jews and Blacks have to do with “resenting success”, I’ll need to read up on that. My personal feeling is that many Jews joined the Civil Rights movement because they knew what it was like to be persecuted, and it was the right thing to do. What I seem to see lately is a pitting of of one group against the other.

But what is frequently ignored is the degree to which these government programs helped whites and left blacks behind, and how that related to creating a legacy to pass on to the next generation.

One example would be the GI bill, that propelled many whites into the middle class.

 

[katsteve2012]

On the part you bolded - absolutely. In terms of the avenues of help available by the government, Jews were treated like any other white group.

I am not sure that the divisions between Jews and Blacks have to do with “resenting success”, I’ll need to read up on that. My personal feeling is that many Jews joined the Civil Rights movement because they knew what it was like to be persecuted, and it was the right thing to do. What I seem to see lately is a pitting of of one group against the other.

But what is frequently ignored is the degree to which these government programs helped whites and left blacks behind, and how that related to creating a legacy to pass on to the next generation.

One example would be the GI bill, that propelled many whites into the middle class.

Actually, the Civil Rights Act of 1964, also addressed religous discrimination, so it made sense for Jews to join the Civil Rights movement.

"The vast majority of Jewish supporters of desegregation argued that institutional discrimination was a threat to all minorities, including Jews and, therefore, the civil rights movement warranted public Jewish support"

Source:

Jews and the Civil Rights Movement

On October 12, 1958, 50 sticks of dynamite exploded near the entrance of the Hebrew Benevolent Congregation in Atlanta, Georgia. The attack wasn’t simply

jewishunpacked.com

Obviously MLK was at the forefront of the Civil Rights movement and publically empathized with their persecution.

As far as benefits like the GI Bill, you are correct. My Dad was in the Navy during the Korean War, and was one of the fortunate ones who got the benefits of the GI Bill, but quite a few of his peers for various reasons did not.

This article covered some of it.

Many Black veterans were denied G.I. Bill benefits after World War II. Some lawmakers want to correct the historical error.

The G.I. Bill is largely credited with helping build America's middle class — but that economic opportunity was wrongly denied to many Black veterans.

www.cbsnews.com