90 Minutes in Heaven... wasn't--questioning my Catholic beliefs?

[Cougarbear]

Q. Why are we here on earth?
A. To learn and to have fun.

Catholics know and accept that we do not know the mind of God. We know God is love; we know He values free choice; we know God is good.

Before we were born, did we know what this world had in store for us? Even so, did we thrive? Did we learn? Did we have fun? In the same way, we do not know what the afterlife has in store for us other than we will be with God. We expect to thrive, to learn, and to have fun.

In Catholicism, the idea of being bored doesn't even exist. Apparently it is a worry or concern the LDS faith felt/feels the need to address? They shouldn't worry.

Actually, the Bible is full of information on the hereafter and now. I agree that part of what is necessary is to learn. But, learn what? And, what is the "fun" thing? I know Catholics drink booze like a fish drinks water. But, God wants us to have "joy" not just fun. He doesn't want loud boisterous laughter and evil speaking of God and his anointed servants. He wants us to have joy in our posterity. He wants us to have eternal happiness. I'm sorry that you refuse to learn all that is given by God to us and fall for the idea that we can't know the will and mind of God's plan of salvation and exaltation. He's told us. We enjoy sharing our knowledge with others.

 

[Meriweather]

And, what is the "fun" thing?

You had/have no fun raising a family? No fun in learning, in celebrating anniversaries and rituals? Gardening, storytelling, reading, nature walks, caring for pets, visiting family brought you no fun and therefore no joy? Plays, movies, dance, sports, music recitals, and picnics are simply chores?

You begrudge and judge members of my family whose intake of alcohol doesn't even amount to six small glasses of wine in a year--if that? Is it the LDS position that Jesus drank only grape juice, and that the Bible verse accusing him of being a drunkard is ignored? I can guarantee you Jesus drank more in a year than most Catholics partake today. While I am certain there must be some Catholics who drink to excess, I have never met up with a single one.

 

[Meriweather]

He wants us to have joy in our posterity.

Joy but no fun. Catholics embrace both. Fun is an offshoot of joy. You must know that. Joy has us celebrating all the good things life presents. It is quietly there even during life's sorrows. Hope it is the same for you.

 

[The Original Tree]

I read the book 90 Minutes in Heaven...

Even as a Catholic reading about a Protestant, I liked this book.. felt great empathy for this guy who got into a car wreck and was considered (by medical people) to be dead as a doornail... then came back after people prayed for him... lived in hell for a long time bc of all the med procedures (great pain) he had to endure... should NOT have lived but miraculously did.

But here's the deal

When i first started reading this book, I began to question my Catholic belief, specifically the one RE Purgatory. Catholics have been told for centuries by their Church that very rarely does a person, no matter how saintly go to Heaven as soon as he or she dies. And I have believed that, not only bc of Church teaching but because of experiences in life... seeing massive and egregious EVIL everywhere...

so I thought: He went straight to Heaven? and he's not even Catholic? What the.....?!

But then I got some answers

The dude was NOT in Heaven... the book sshould not be called that..

he says himself that when he came to this great, anxiety-less place... he was going toward a big gate beyond which was a great light... and that he did NOT see Jesus, just a loto f people who had died b4 him... Before he could get to the gate, however, he was sent back to Earth

so the guy was NOT judged... never even spoke to Jesus...

so... Catholic beliefs have not suffered in the l east...

Abraham's Bosom or Hell is where everyone went prior to The Crucifixion and Resurrection of Christ. Even righteous people did not actually go to Heaven from what I understand and went to Abraham's Bosom. Between Abraham's Bosom and Hell was a great Gulf so that no one could cross between the two.

When Christ died, He descended to Abraham's Bosom and took all the Old Testament Saints with Him to Heaven, then He went to The Mercy Seat in Heaven, sprinkled His blood upon it to sanctify everyone past, present and future, then returned to Earth for 50 days before ascending again. The next time He returns will be near the end of The Battle of Armageddon at The End of The Tribulation.

It may be that when people have NDE's that where they go if God is going to return them to Earth and they are not sanctified in Christ is Abraham's Bosom. There is no doctrine of purgatory though. That is not canonized doctrine.

 

[Cougarbear]

You had/have no fun raising a family? No fun in learning, in celebrating anniversaries and rituals? Gardening, storytelling, reading, nature walks, caring for pets, visiting family brought you no fun and therefore no joy? Plays, movies, dance, sports, music recitals, and picnics are simply chores?

You begrudge and judge members of my family whose intake of alcohol doesn't even amount to six small glasses of wine in a year--if that? Is it the LDS position that Jesus drank only grape juice, and that the Bible verse accusing him of being a drunkard is ignored? I can guarantee you Jesus drank more in a year than most Catholics partake today. While I am certain there must be some Catholics who drink to excess, I have never met up with a single one.

You can guarantee me that Jesus drank alcohol and was a sinless drunkard? Do you even think about the words you put together? You cannot guarantee me that at all. There is no indication Jesus drank any wine. I've been in groups where alcohol is being drunk and didn't touch a drop. I've attended Passover with family and they gave me grape juice while they drank wine. And, where in the Bible is he accused of being a drunkard?

Why are you asking me about fun with family? Of course I have fun and joy. That isn't my question you are dodging again. My question is why doesn't the one true Catholic church know anything about the afterlife? The answer is simple. They aren't communicating with God and haven't the authority to teach about the afterlife and how it affects our decisions in this life. It isn't that alcohol, tobacco and other things is spiritual bad. It's we have been commanded not to partake of any of it. And, sacrifice brings for the blessings for sure. Unless you think lung cancer and cirrhosis are blessings. You will find LDS are very fun and joyful people to associate with without the booze and cussing.

 

[Meriweather]

You will find LDS are very fun and joyful people to associate with without the booze and cussing.

If you are truly of the mind that there is "booze and cussing" at Catholic gatherings, I will leave you to your delusions. They will fit nicely by what I know of your version of the afterlife. Which I reject.

 

[Cougarbear]

If you are truly of the mind that there is "booze and cussing" at Catholic gatherings, I will leave you to your delusions. They will fit nicely by what I know of your version of the afterlife. Which I reject.

Then you are rejecting the Bible. Nice... 1Corinthians chapter 15:40-42 and verse 29...Why do you people fight this so much!

 

[Meriweather]

Then you are rejecting the Bible. Nice... 1Corinthians chapter 15:40-42 and verse 29...Why do you people fight this so much!

I reject your accusation. Go ahead and interpret 1 Corinthians as you like and how it fits your own needs. I think it is interesting that while Paul notes a practice in only one Christian community, he does not endorse it, nor does he recommend it to any of his other communities.

Jesus and the other Apostles never teach it, never recommend it, never even note it. To most of us, if LDS wants to add to scripture, it is their business, but most of the rest of us don't recommend the practice. It is certainly not the first instance where the LDS Church feels a need to add to scripture. The rest of us do not. Peace.

 

[rightnow909]

Abraham's Bosom or Hell is where everyone went prior to The Crucifixion and Resurrection of Christ. Even righteous people did not actually go to Heaven from what I understand and went to Abraham's Bosom. Between Abraham's Bosom and Hell was a great Gulf so that no one could cross between the two.

When Christ died, He descended to Abraham's Bosom and took all the Old Testament Saints with Him to Heaven, then He went to The Mercy Seat in Heaven, sprinkled His blood upon it to sanctify everyone past, present and future, then returned to Earth for 50 days before ascending again. The next time He returns will be near the end of The Battle of Armageddon at The End of The Tribulation.

It may be that when people have NDE's that where they go if God is going to return them to Earth and they are not sanctified in Christ is Abraham's Bosom. There is no doctrine of purgatory though. That is not canonized doctrine.

I've read the entire Bible and never heard of the part of your post RE sprinkling His blood on the Mercy Seat and etc...

so yeh... maybe you and I read different Bibles.. I read the Douay Rheims which is the most reliable (does not interpret, just translates word-4-word from one language to another)

 

[Michelle420]

rightnow909 I've never read it. Sounds good.

 

[rightnow909]

rightnow909 I've never read it. Sounds good.

never read what?

douay rheims Bible?

or 90 Minutes...?

 

[rightnow909]

I reject your accusation. Go ahead and interpret 1 Corinthians as you like and how it fits your own needs. I think it is interesting that while Paul notes a practice in only one Christian community, he does not endorse it, nor does he recommend it to any of his other communities.

Jesus and the other Apostles never teach it, never recommend it, never even note it. To most of us, if LDS wants to add to scripture, it is their business, but most of the rest of us don't recommend the practice. It is certainly not the first instance where the LDS Church feels a need to add to scripture. The rest of us do not. Peace.

other non Catholic religions add to scripture and take away as well

I've heard them say the most godawful things are "in the Bible" when really, they are paraphrasing so badly, by the time they get done with a "psg" there's no resemblance to any scripture at all...

VERY bad...

this is one reason i like the Douay Rheims... it is NON interpretive... just translates from one language to another... originally from Hebrew/Aramaic, spoken by Jesus...

 

[Meriweather]

I've heard them say the most godawful things are "in the Bible" when really, they are paraphrasing so badly, by the time they get done with a "psg" there's no resemblance to any scripture at all...

You are right. Between paraphrasing and not keeping the verse in context, great misunderstandings are in the works.

 

[rightnow909]

You are right. Between paraphrasing and not keeping the verse in context, great misunderstandings are in the works.

yeh, i forgot about context but that is very important

if you are going to go by Bible alone (which I highly do NOT recommend), at least know the heck it says

 

[Michelle420]

rightnow909 90 minutes.

 

[SweetSue92]

It appears non Catholics have no answer

speechless?

doesn't surprise me

I don't necessarily believe all these near death experiences.

But also.

Purgatory is not in the Bible. It's not Scriptural. Jesus never mentions it. Basically the Catholics made it up, I'm sorry to tell you. They made up a lot of stuff that's not in the Bible.

 

[Meriweather]

Purgatory is not in the Bible. It's not Scriptural. Jesus never mentions it. Basically the Catholics made it up, I'm sorry to tell you. They made up a lot of stuff that's not in the Bible.

You are probably looking for the word "purgatory" which, like the word "Trinity" is not found in the Bible. Etymology of purgatory is purification, and the Bible does talk about purification. There are also passages in the Bible that reference a holding place after death and prayers for people who have passed on. This happened in Maccabees and also the first form of Kaddish (from the first century before Christ).

The scriptures Catholics point to as references to purification, a holding place (purgatory) are dismissed by most Protestants. They decided there is no such thing as purification after death, or a holding place, so no need to take note of references.

 

[SweetSue92]

You are probably looking for the word "purgatory" which, like the word "Trinity" is not found in the Bible. Etymology of purgatory is purification, and the Bible does talk about purification. There are also passages in the Bible that reference a holding place after death and prayers for people who have passed on. This happened in Maccabees and also the first form of Kaddish (from the first century before Christ).

The scriptures Catholics point to as references to purification, a holding place (purgatory) are dismissed by most Protestants. They decided there is no such thing as purification after death, or a holding place, so no need to take note of references.

It's explicit all over Scripture that there is no purgatory. Hebrews 9:27. Catholics invented many things to be honest.

 

[Meriweather]

It's explicit all over Scripture that there is no purgatory. Hebrews 9:27.

Do you believe we will be resurrected with all our imperfections? No, Catholics do not "invent" things. Jesus opened the way to eternal life with God. If he did away with individual imperfections/impurities, we would all be perfect/pure now. We would be without sin now, always rightly discerning and following the will of God on earth as it is in heaven.

Would you like to go before God as pure gold, or as gold with impurities still present? While scripture does contain verses of fire burning everything way, there are scriptural references to fire being used to purify.

 

[SweetSue92]

Do you believe we will be resurrected with all our imperfections? No, Catholics do not "invent" things. Jesus opened the way to eternal life with God. If he did away with individual imperfections/impurities, we would all be perfect/pure now. We would be without sin now, always rightly discerning and following the will of God on earth as it is in heaven.

Would you like to go before God as pure gold, or as gold with impurities still present? While scripture does contain verses of fire burning everything way, there are scriptural references to fire being used to purify.

Please cite where Jesus said you would go to some middle place to be "purified"