90 Minutes in Heaven... wasn't--questioning my Catholic beliefs?

[Meriweather]

Please cite where Jesus said you would go to some middle place to be "purified"

If Jesus' references to a holding place and purification interests you enough, you will locate them for yourself. I tend to think that if you had any interest, you would have already found them. There is a lot I don't know about Muhammad, not because it cannot be found, but simply because I don't have the interest/motivation to pursue it.

 

[Likkmee]

That means you will stay in your temporary place until the "end of time", whereas your time may vary. Then the next "round" starts. Comprende?

Sounds like the waiting room at the S. Carolina DMV.

 

[rightnow909]

If Jesus' references to a holding place and purification interests you enough, you will locate them for yourself. I tend to think that if you had any interest, you would have already found them. There is a lot I don't know about Muhammad, not because it cannot be found, but simply because I don't have the interest/motivation to pursue it.

yeh, I read some of the koran once and... snooze fest mostly but the parts that wake u up are... OMG...

the koran says to either kill non-believers or force them to pay a tax, which of course can be as high as the muslims want...

it says to force people into their religion or (see above)

 

[rightnow909]

I don't necessarily believe all these near death experiences.

But also.

Purgatory is not in the Bible. It's not Scriptural. Jesus never mentions it. Basically the Catholics made it up, I'm sorry to tell you. They made up a lot of stuff that's not in the Bible.

shows what u know... there are plenty of psgs about a place of purification before Heaven

but since u don't have enough interest to even attend a RCIA class, apparently... or even just look on-line to find the TRUE teachings of the RCC

why should I myself bother to try to persuade u?

 

[rightnow909]

Do you believe we will be resurrected with all our imperfections? No, Catholics do not "invent" things. Jesus opened the way to eternal life with God. If he did away with individual imperfections/impurities, we would all be perfect/pure now. We would be without sin now, always rightly discerning and following the will of God on earth as it is in heaven.

Would you like to go before God as pure gold, or as gold with impurities still present? While scripture does contain verses of fire burning everything way, there are scriptural references to fire being used to purify.

one psg is Revelation where it says "no impure thing will enter" HeaVEN

IF any human calls him or herself Pure... I'm going to avoid that person like the plague

This is why most people go to Purgatory... almost impossible to become perfectly purified in THIS life..

source Mary at Fatima

 

[rightnow909]

I really believe that God wanted this guy to do his purgation (Purgatory) on Earth

all his sufferings (medical problems, etc) can be offered up in reparation for his sins

I hope he learned to do such.... As Padre Pio said... something like

There is nothing worse than wasted suffering

 

[Batcat]

You can guarantee me that Jesus drank alcohol and was a sinless drunkard? Do you even think about the words you put together? You cannot guarantee me that at all. There is no indication Jesus drank any wine. I've been in groups where alcohol is being drunk and didn't touch a drop. I've attended Passover with family and they gave me grape juice while they drank wine. And, where in the Bible is he accused of being a drunkard?

Why are you asking me about fun with family? Of course I have fun and joy. That isn't my question you are dodging again. My question is why doesn't the one true Catholic church know anything about the afterlife? The answer is simple. They aren't communicating with God and haven't the authority to teach about the afterlife and how it affects our decisions in this life. It isn't that alcohol, tobacco and other things is spiritual bad. It's we have been commanded not to partake of any of it. And, sacrifice brings for the blessings for sure. Unless you think lung cancer and cirrhosis are blessings. You will find LDS are very fun and joyful people to associate with without the booze and cussing.

You can drink alcohol everyday and not be a “drunkard.”

Why the French Are Better Drinkers Than Americans

We could learn a thing or six from the French.

www.thrillist.com

 

[CrusaderFrank]

In Autobiography of a Yogi. Paramahansa describes that he had a conversation with Jesus

 

[Cougarbear]

You can drink alcohol everyday and not be a “drunkard.”

Why the French Are Better Drinkers Than Americans

We could learn a thing or six from the French.

www.thrillist.com

Nice try. Again, you haven't answered a single question. Dodging is your game.

 

[Batcat]

Nice try. Again, you haven't answered a single question. Dodging is your game.

Well if drinking wine is sinful than you explain why the first miracle Jesus preformed was to turn water into wine. Plus it was not just a little wine.

How much wine did Jesus create at Cana? A lot.

www.catholicmannight.com

***snip***


Here is what happened at Cana:

***snip***

• The wine at Cana ran out (John 2:3), leaving the hosts embarrassed.
• Jesus directed the servants to fill 6 purification the stone water jars with water (John 2:6-7).
• The servants did that exactly, filling the stone jars to the brim.
• Each jar held 20-30 gallons (John 2:6) for a total of 120-180 gallons of water; about 680 liters.
• When the steward tasted the “water” it was “wine”; not only wine, but “good wine” (John 2:10).

To put the miracle in perspective, consider that Jesus created about 2 pallets of wine. Here’s a picture of what two pallets of wine looks like. Now, that is impressive.

What Does The Bible Say About Drinking Alcohol? - Wine-is

Galatians 5:19–21: "The acts of the sinful nature are obvious:drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this

www.wine-is.com

***snip***

Is drinking alcohol a sin in the Bible?​

​

They held that both the Bible and Christian tradition taught that alcohol is a gift from God that makes life more joyous, but that over-indulgence leading to drunkenness is sinful.

Can Christians drink alcohol?​

Excessive consumption of alcohol is a sin against God. It is not possible to drink heavily, to be addicted to alcohol, or to drink for the purpose of being drunk and to do so in a Godly way. Any time that you do, you stray from His path.

 

[Cougarbear]

Well if drinking wine is sinful than you explain why the first miracle Jesus preformed was to turn water into wine. Plus it was not just a little wine.

How much wine did Jesus create at Cana? A lot.

www.catholicmannight.com

***snip***


Here is what happened at Cana:

***snip***

• • The wine at Cana ran out (John 2:3), leaving the hosts embarrassed.
  • Jesus directed the servants to fill 6 purification the stone water jars with water (John 2:6-7).
  • The servants did that exactly, filling the stone jars to the brim.
  • Each jar held 20-30 gallons (John 2:6) for a total of 120-180 gallons of water; about 680 liters.
  • When the steward tasted the “water” it was “wine”; not only wine, but “good wine” (John 2:10).

To put the miracle in perspective, consider that Jesus created about 2 pallets of wine. Here’s a picture of what two pallets of wine looks like. Now, that is impressive.

View attachment 640960

What Does The Bible Say About Drinking Alcohol? - Wine-is

Galatians 5:19–21: "The acts of the sinful nature are obvious:drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this

www.wine-is.com

***snip***

Is drinking alcohol a sin in the Bible?​

​

They held that both the Bible and Christian tradition taught that alcohol is a gift from God that makes life more joyous, but that over-indulgence leading to drunkenness is sinful.

Can Christians drink alcohol?​

Excessive consumption of alcohol is a sin against God. It is not possible to drink heavily, to be addicted to alcohol, or to drink for the purpose of being drunk and to do so in a Godly way. Any time that you do, you stray from His path.

There were also things that in the Bible at times were forbidden to eat. We eat them now, don't we as Christians? Yep. So, each dispensation has their food laws. Some for the betterment of the health of people. But, mainly for sacrifice and willingness to live the life God asks of us. Giving up alcohol in our days is no big deal unless you are a drunkard. Isaiah 5:22-23, "Woe unto them that are mighty to drink wine, and men of strength to mingle strong drink: Which justify the wicked for reward, and take away the righteousness of the righteous from him!"

But, then again, in Jesus time, it was new wine he made overnight. Not enough time to ferment to strong drink. More like grape juice. The New Testament, translated from Greek, uses the word OINOS (wine) for both fermented and unfermented drink. In Matthew 9:17, OINOS means new or unfermented wine. The wine Christ made was of high quality, not because of its alcohol content, but because, as Henry Morris explains, it was ‘new wine, freshly created! It was not old, decayed wine, as it would have to be if it were intoxicating. There was no time for the fermentation process to break down the structure of its energy-giving sugars into disintegrative alcohols. It thus was a fitting representation of his glory and was appropriate to serve as the very first of his great miracles (John 2:11). - What is the difference between old & new wine? - Christian Questions Bible Podcast

 

[Batcat]

There were also things that in the Bible at times were forbidden to eat. We eat them now, don't we as Christians? Yep. So, each dispensation has their food laws. Some for the betterment of the health of people. But, mainly for sacrifice and willingness to live the life God asks of us. Giving up alcohol in our days is no big deal unless you are a drunkard. Isaiah 5:22-23, "Woe unto them that are mighty to drink wine, and men of strength to mingle strong drink: Which justify the wicked for reward, and take away the righteousness of the righteous from him!"

But, then again, in Jesus time, it was new wine he made overnight. Not enough time to ferment to strong drink. More like grape juice. The New Testament, translated from Greek, uses the word OINOS (wine) for both fermented and unfermented drink. In Matthew 9:17, OINOS means new or unfermented wine. The wine Christ made was of high quality, not because of its alcohol content, but because, as Henry Morris explains, it was ‘new wine, freshly created! It was not old, decayed wine, as it would have to be if it were intoxicating. There was no time for the fermentation process to break down the structure of its energy-giving sugars into disintegrative alcohols. It thus was a fitting representation of his glory and was appropriate to serve as the very first of his great miracles (John 2:11). - What is the difference between old & new wine? - Christian Questions Bible Podcast

If God felt drinking was a sin he would have labeled it as such.

Reformed Earth | Mischelle Sandowich | Substack

Tips, Truths, and Techniques to restore HOPE to the earth by applying God's ways to all of life and declaring Christ's Lordship over all creation. Click to read Reformed Earth, by Mischelle Sandowich, a Substack publication with thousands of subscribers.

reformedhealth.net

Reformed Earth | Mischelle Sandowich | Substack

Tips, Truths, and Techniques to restore HOPE to the earth by applying God's ways to all of life and declaring Christ's Lordship over all creation. Click to read Reformed Earth, by Mischelle Sandowich, a Substack publication with thousands of subscribers.

reformedhealth.net

 

[Cougarbear]

If God felt drinking was a sin he would have labeled it as such.

Reformed Earth | Mischelle Sandowich | Substack

Tips, Truths, and Techniques to restore HOPE to the earth by applying God's ways to all of life and declaring Christ's Lordship over all creation. Click to read Reformed Earth, by Mischelle Sandowich, a Substack publication with thousands of subscribers.

reformedhealth.net

Reformed Earth | Mischelle Sandowich | Substack

Tips, Truths, and Techniques to restore HOPE to the earth by applying God's ways to all of life and declaring Christ's Lordship over all creation. Click to read Reformed Earth, by Mischelle Sandowich, a Substack publication with thousands of subscribers.

reformedhealth.net

The question is what was Jesus drinking at the wedding? It was new wine, not old wine. It was made the day prior and on the day. So, it was new wine without the alcohol. I gave you the proof of this. You quoted wine that those in iniquity were doing when told not to drink strong drink and get drunk. You lose again...

 

[Batcat]

The question is what was Jesus drinking at the wedding? It was new wine, not old wine. It was made the day prior and on the day. So, it was new wine without the alcohol. I gave you the proof of this. You quoted wine that those in iniquity were doing when told not to drink strong drink and get drunk. You lose again...

You can have your opinion and I can have mine. As I said if God felt drinking wine was a sin he would have labeled it as such. Therefore to me drinking wine is not a sin.

To you it is. So if I was around you I would not drink wine.

Did Jesus drink wine/alcohol? | GotQuestions.org

Did Jesus drink wine? Did Jesus drink alcohol? Would it have been a sin for Jesus to drink alcohol?

www.gotquestions.org

***snip***

Christ’s first miracle of turning water into wine at the wedding at Cana almost certainly involved a fermented beverage. According to Jewish wedding tradition, fermented wine was always served at weddings; if Jesus had provided only grape juice, the master of the feast would have complained. Instead, he said the wine was better than what was previously served; it was apparently a “fine” wine (John 2:10–11).

***snip***


In Luke 7:33–44, Jesus said, “For John the Baptist has come eating no bread and drinking no wine, and you say, ‘He has a demon.’ The Son of Man has come eating and drinking, and you say, ‘Look at him! A glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’” (emphasis added). In verse 33 Jesus is making a contrast between John the Baptist’s “drinking no wine” and His own practice. Jesus goes on to say the religious leaders accused Him (falsely) of being a drunkard. Jesus was never a drunkard, any more than He was a glutton. He lived a completely sinless life (1 Peter 2:22); however, Luke 7 strongly suggests that Jesus did indeed partake of alcoholic wine.

The Passover celebration would also have commonly included fermented wine. The Scriptures use the term “fruit of the vine” (Matthew 26:27–29; Mark 14:23–25; Luke 22:17–18). Of course, Christ participated in drinking from the Passover cup (Mark 14:23).

 

[Cougarbear]

You can have your opinion and I can have mine. As I said if God felt drinking wine was a sin he would have labeled it as such. Therefore to me drinking wine is not a sin.

To you it is. So if I was around you I would not drink wine.

Did Jesus drink wine/alcohol? | GotQuestions.org

Did Jesus drink wine? Did Jesus drink alcohol? Would it have been a sin for Jesus to drink alcohol?

www.gotquestions.org

***snip***

Christ’s first miracle of turning water into wine at the wedding at Cana almost certainly involved a fermented beverage. According to Jewish wedding tradition, fermented wine was always served at weddings; if Jesus had provided only grape juice, the master of the feast would have complained. Instead, he said the wine was better than what was previously served; it was apparently a “fine” wine (John 2:10–11).

***snip***


In Luke 7:33–44, Jesus said, “For John the Baptist has come eating no bread and drinking no wine, and you say, ‘He has a demon.’ The Son of Man has come eating and drinking, and you say, ‘Look at him! A glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’” (emphasis added). In verse 33 Jesus is making a contrast between John the Baptist’s “drinking no wine” and His own practice. Jesus goes on to say the religious leaders accused Him (falsely) of being a drunkard. Jesus was never a drunkard, any more than He was a glutton. He lived a completely sinless life (1 Peter 2:22); however, Luke 7 strongly suggests that Jesus did indeed partake of alcoholic wine.

The Passover celebration would also have commonly included fermented wine. The Scriptures use the term “fruit of the vine” (Matthew 26:27–29; Mark 14:23–25; Luke 22:17–18). Of course, Christ participated in drinking from the Passover cup (Mark 14:23).

You are giving disinformation and slandering Jesus Christ. I gave you information that the wine was prepared on the day and the prior day before the feast. So, it was not something to get drunk on. As far as if it is a sin, when the Lord says don't drink wine and strong drink as he did with Isaiah, then it is a sin. And in Luke 7, he is talking about what the pharisees are sayin of him, which they lie as he's pointing out. It doesn't mean he's a winebibber. The definition of a winebibber is a habitual drinker of alcohol. How would they know this? Pharisees didn't follow him around. Want to try again?

 

[jehanne1431]

Catholics teach u are judged as soon as u die... sent to Purgatory, Hell or Heaven... Purgatory ends in Heaven

You are 100% correct about purgatory. And it is ALL OVER Scripture, especially in the New Testament. I could cite 25 passages that directly or indirectly refer to purgatory. But my experience with most Protestants is they are virtually intransigent on the subject. They dismiss the passages out of hand, or they provide their own passages --- “to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord, etc. --- and refuse to even try to offer an explanation of the passages I cite. Anyone who thinks they can ask Jesus to forgive them of their sins and accept Christ as their Lord and Savior (sincerely) -- such as at an altar call -- and then believe they are guaranteed heaven the moment they die no matter what sins enters their lives after that “moment of conversion” ---- well, that’s not only preposterous, it flies in the face of a hundred verses in Scripture.

 

[Batcat]

You are giving disinformation and slandering Jesus Christ. I gave you information that the wine was prepared on the day and the prior day before the feast. So, it was not something to get drunk on. As far as if it is a sin, when the Lord says don't drink wine and strong drink as he did with Isaiah, then it is a sin. And in Luke 7, he is talking about what the pharisees are sayin of him, which they lie as he's pointing out. It doesn't mean he's a winebibber. The definition of a winebibber is a habitual drinker of alcohol. How would they know this? Pharisees didn't follow him around. Want to try again?

You make a very serious allegation when you say I am slandering Jesus. You are judging me and not only judging me but judging me unfairly. As a practicing Christian you should be careful not to do that. Judging people is above our pay grade.

I am not just giving you my opinion but the opinion of other Christian writers. If I am slandering Jesus as you claim then so are they. In passing it is not unusual to disagree on what the Bible says about a number of topics.

I have no problem with what you believe but as for me I will continue to believe that drinking in moderation is not a sin. It may be to you but it isn’t to me. If I was to visit your home I would not drink. If you were opposed to eating pork and came to my house I would not serve you ham for dinner. Your beliefs are yours and as long as they don’t harm others I have no problem with them. In passing I am not trying to convince you to start drinking. I am just presenting my views on the issue.

I had a doctor once recommend I drink a glass of wine with my dinner. That reminds me of the advise Paul gave Timothy in 1 Timothy 5:23).

Stop drinking only water, and use a little wine because of your stomach and your frequent illnesses.

To be honest I am not fond of wine but I do drink a beer with my dinner.

6 Truths About Alcohol in the Bible (is drinking a sin?)

Is drinking a sin? What does the Bible say about drinking alcohol? Few topics have been debated in Christian circles as much as alcohol in the Bible. What’s interesting about the debate surrounding this topic

www.rethinknow.org

Is It Wrong to Drink Alcohol?

Does the Bible say drinking alcohol is wrong and a sin? Is it also unacceptable to have wine?

www.biblestudy.org

Is Drinking a Sin?

Is drinking a sin, or is just drunkenness a sin? Can having one drink be a sin for some people but not for others? Catholic apologist Steve Ray explains.

www.catholic.com

The Bible Says Drunkenness is a Sin (Galatians 5:21). But is Occasional Social Drinking Okay for Christians?

It is fair to say that both total abstinence and moderate use were acceptable to Jesus.

www.christianitytoday.com

 

[Cougarbear]

You make a very serious allegation when you say I am slandering Jesus. You are judging me and not only judging me but judging me unfairly. As a practicing Christian you should be careful not to do that. Judging people is above our pay grade.

I am not just giving you my opinion but the opinion of other Christian writers. If I am slandering Jesus as you claim then so are they. In passing it is not unusual to disagree on what the Bible says about a number of topics.

I have no problem with what you believe but as for me I will continue to believe that drinking in moderation is not a sin. It may be to you but it isn’t to me. If I was to visit your home I would not drink. If you were opposed to eating pork and came to my house I would not serve you ham for dinner. Your beliefs are yours and as long as they don’t harm others I have no problem with them. In passing I am not trying to convince you to start drinking. I am just presenting my views on the issue.

I had a doctor once recommend I drink a glass of wine with my dinner. That reminds me of the advise Paul gave Timothy in 1 Timothy 5:23).

Stop drinking only water, and use a little wine because of your stomach and your frequent illnesses.

To be honest I am not fond of wine but I do drink a beer with my dinner.

6 Truths About Alcohol in the Bible (is drinking a sin?)

Is drinking a sin? What does the Bible say about drinking alcohol? Few topics have been debated in Christian circles as much as alcohol in the Bible. What’s interesting about the debate surrounding this topic

www.rethinknow.org

Is It Wrong to Drink Alcohol?

Does the Bible say drinking alcohol is wrong and a sin? Is it also unacceptable to have wine?

www.biblestudy.org

Is Drinking a Sin?

Is drinking a sin, or is just drunkenness a sin? Can having one drink be a sin for some people but not for others? Catholic apologist Steve Ray explains.

www.catholic.com

The Bible Says Drunkenness is a Sin (Galatians 5:21). But is Occasional Social Drinking Okay for Christians?

It is fair to say that both total abstinence and moderate use were acceptable to Jesus.

www.christianitytoday.com

I am careful the judge righteously. I have not judged you but warned you of slandering Jesus like the Pharisees did. And, those scholars are more in danger than you because of their high Pharisee positions.
Strengthen your testimony of Jesus and you will find you don’t need the wine and beer. Jesus will replace that need.
In any event, my knowledge of the scriptures and the making of wine showed you the error that scholars make to justify their weaknesses. One such minister in our town recently found out the hard way when he drank some beer and hit a bicyclist and killed him. He said he thought he hit a deer and kept on driving. Now he’s facing 30 years in jail. Never have to worry by listening to the prophets and apostles.

 

[Blackrook]

It's hard to rely on NDE's as proof of the afterlife because they're subjective and people tend to see what they expect to see.

 

[Batcat]

I am careful the judge righteously. I have not judged you but warned you of slandering Jesus like the Pharisees did. And, those scholars are more in danger than you because of their high Pharisee positions.
Strengthen your testimony of Jesus and you will find you don’t need the wine and beer. Jesus will replace that need.
In any event, my knowledge of the scriptures and the making of wine showed you the error that scholars make to justify their weaknesses. One such minister in our town recently found out the hard way when he drank some beer and hit a bicyclist and killed him. He said he thought he hit a deer and kept on driving. Now he’s facing 30 years in jail. Never have to worry by listening to the prophets and apostles.

I am 75 years old and have been drinking in moderation all my adult life. Never been arrested for driving drunk or arrested for being intoxicated. I have only been drunk a few times years ago. I didn’t enjoy the experience.

Most people drink for effect. I drink because I enjoy the taste. For a period of time I made my own beer. I have also made wine in the past. Obviously I don’t consider making beer or wine sinful either. My grandfather also made his own beer. He was Pennsylvania Dutch.

I don’t see drinking in moderation as sinful in any way. I am well aware of the dangers of drinking as my son in law was an alcoholic and recently died. He had an addictive personality and I don’t. He was also addicted to pain killers.

You believe drinking is sinful, so for you it is. That’s is why I wouldn’t drink in front of you. Nor am I trying to convince you that you can drink.

If I have had more than one beer I do not drive for a couple of hours. If I am at a restaurant I might have a beer with my meal. ( I love a Guinness Stout with a meal).

If I am visiting someone I might have one beer and no more unless I am staying overnight.

As I said above I am not trying to change your viewpoint. There are a number of topics Christians disagree on. Is it sinful to drink wine in moderation is just one.

50 things on which Christans disagree

Issues which have divided Christians. Things which have divided congregations. Things which have split churches. Why churches split. why people leave church. why people quit church.

abiblecommentary.com