50% of Americans do not pay income tax?

[DontBeStupid]

America has some of the highest corporate tax rates in the world.

How will raising taxes on those bastard rich people create jobs? How will it spur economic growth?!?!?!?

That chart is for new investment. And p.s., a corporation is not a person.

In its August 2008 report, the GAO estimated that "[t]he average U.S. effective tax rate on the domestic income of large corporations with positive domestic income in 2004 was an estimated 25.2 percent."

WSJ ignored effective tax rate in claiming U.S. corporate tax rate "is higher than in all of Europe" | Media Matters for America

 

[edjax1952]

3 years ago, I started doing my own taxes again, it's easy to do online now.

since then, I have gotten more back than I have put in every year.

so unless my tax credits or breaks are removed/lowered, I will continue to get more back.

I don't know if the 50% claim is true, but the claim that it does occur is very true.

That has never happened to me. But I have witnessed it.

My FUTURE DAUGHTER IN LAW PAID IN 800, GOT BACK 3000.

Same year my son paid in 1500, got back 2500.

I just get the shaft.

And you know how we got to this point, where so many get back more than they paid in? At a time when tax rates were higher for everyone, Republicans wanted to reduce the rates. Those who were the lowest earners never paid income taxes, but they also did not get money back; they just didn't owe anything. But when they Republicans decided that they wanted to reduce the tax rates on higher income earners, they needed to show that they were not just cut taxes for the well to do, so they added in these credits for low income earners that actually gave them money back.

Besides the fact that it was part of a tax cutting strategy, it was also done to help offset what was considered to be spending cuts in welfare programs at the time. What it all boils down to is that this all took place as Republicans and Dems scratched each others backs giving and taking here and there. The problem was that we reduced revenue in the long run to our own detriment. While it worked fine when the economy was booming, nobody stopped to think what would happen in times when the economy tanked. By reducing tax rates as much as we did, we lost revenue from the top income earners all the way down to those who never paid anything as we started giving them money back.

The big problem is that nobody likes to raise taxes, even when it is in everyone's best interest.

This is the best response of the whole thread. Thank you!

Another problem is that people will percieve that Congress has raised taxes if they eliminate some of the credits and loopholes.

 

[Big Fitz]

corporate profits are way up.

when will you catch on?

America has some of the highest corporate tax rates in the world.

How will raising taxes on those bastard rich people create jobs? How will it spur economic growth?!?!?!?

Do you understand what effective rate is? Do you think corporations just pay the standard rates you listed?

If you have a problem with exemptions and subsidies most often supported by liberals and globalists, maybe you should start speaking out against them instead of saying "they aren't paying their fair share" instead of trying to play 'three card monte' with the tax rates.

 

[edjax1952]

If a person gets more credit for their taxes than they owe for taxes, their tax owed balance should be zero, not a negative liability. This is why I call the tax credits endowments.

Semantics.

You seem hung up on the semantics of all this. Call it whatever you want, the clear fact is that almost 50% of Americans, when it comes to tax time, pay in zero income taxes or get money back. That percentage fluctuates every year, obviously, but that's about it.

Now, if you want to call that an endowment or a chicken sandwich, it doesn't matter to me. What matters to me is what you think about it.

What I think about it is that it is not necessary to "raise taxes" if the endowments and tax loopholes were reduced. I am also concerned about how politicians are using these figures in an attempt to say that Americans are not paying taxes. If I recieve 52 paychecks a week and have tax money taken out of each of those checks I consider myself paying taxes. If Uncle Sams deems to give it all back after collecting it is beside the point. I paid the taxes throughout the year. It is an insult to the American people to protray them as freeloaders when their weekly check is diminished by taxes.

 

[Big Fitz]

If a person gets more credit for their taxes than they owe for taxes, their tax owed balance should be zero, not a negative liability. This is why I call the tax credits endowments.

Semantics.

You seem hung up on the semantics of all this. Call it whatever you want, the clear fact is that almost 50% of Americans, when it comes to tax time, pay in zero income taxes or get money back. That percentage fluctuates every year, obviously, but that's about it.

Now, if you want to call that an endowment or a chicken sandwich, it doesn't matter to me. What matters to me is what you think about it.

What I think about it is that it is not necessary to "raise taxes" if the endowments and tax loopholes were reduced. I am also concerned about how politicians are using these figures in an attempt to say that Americans are not paying taxes. If I recieve 52 paychecks a week and have tax money taken out of each of those checks I consider myself paying taxes. If Uncle Sams deems to give it all back after collecting it is beside the point. I paid the taxes throughout the year. It is an insult to the American people to protray them as freeloaders when their weekly check is diminished by taxes.

Ahhh withholding... the elephant in the room. Whenever flat taxes are talked about, and eliminating loopholes and credits and exemptions, people rail about how it hurts the poor if they don't get them.

Of course they conveniently forget that if you leave withholding alone (Milton Friedman's cardinal sin) nothing would change except the end of 'second christmas' for the poor.

Of course even if you just stopped 'overpaying' withholding back to the taxpayer, that alone would generate around a trillion bucks in lost revenues with no major change to their lifestyle.

 

[editec]

The MEDIAN income in this nation is $21,000 per year.

A single person isn't on the hook to pay taxes until their income is about $25,000 a year.

Median, I will remind you, means that half the people filing taxes didn't make the minimum wage to BE taxed.

If anything should upset us about that, it's the fact that half the population who works makes so damned little money.

 

[Big Fitz]

The MEDIAN income in this nation is $21,000 per year.

A single person isn't on the hook to pay taxes until their income is about $25,000 a year.

Median, I will remind you, means that half the people filing taxes didn't make the minimum wage to BE taxed.

If anything should upset us about that, it's the fact that half the population who works makes so damned little money.

Thank you "service economy" and globalist trade policies.

Also means that 'no tax' level needs to drop significantly.

 

[RDD_1210]

America has some of the highest corporate tax rates in the world.

How will raising taxes on those bastard rich people create jobs? How will it spur economic growth?!?!?!?

Do you understand what effective rate is? Do you think corporations just pay the standard rates you listed?

If you have a problem with exemptions and subsidies most often supported by liberals and globalists, maybe you should start speaking out against them instead of saying "they aren't paying their fair share" instead of trying to play 'three card monte' with the tax rates.

We have been speaking out against these tax loopholes enjoyed by the wealthy and big business. That's the whole point.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

50% of Americans do not pay income tax.

I have been hearing this mantra from the media and politicians for several weeks now. I have not seen any statistical or logical explanation of this statement.

I am hoping that, in this post, I can wrap my head around this monumental claim. How is it that Congress has allowed a set of rules to evolve that facilitates half of the country not paying income tax?

What I suspect is that the real situation involves a few Orwellian idioms which imply that many of these people are not paying income tax when, in fact, they are.

Let me first explain the Orwellian idioms:

Tax credit: A person with children gets a “tax credit”. It is applied to the amount owed the IRS for income tax. For each child $1000 “credit” is added. If that person has three children and owes $1,000 his income tax owed becomes -$2,000 ……..(1000x3) – 1000 = 2000…….. If this were actually a “tax credit” he would owe nothing and he would not receive any refund as he had “credit” for the amount he owed. The IRS ends up paying the man $2000 dollars. This makes the “credit” not a credit at all but an endowment.

Paid income tax: If a person did not make a payment to the IRS in any given year, he did not “pay income tax”
Did he pay income tax that year?

My assumption is that in the statement of “50% of Americans do not pay income tax.” He is included in not paying income tax as he was not required to write a check to the IRS.

In fact he did “pay his income tax” for that year. The IRS elected to pay him (not give credit for) $1000/child and he had three children.

He paid $1000 and received $2000 balance.

Please let me know if I am correct in assuming that these people are included in the 50% tally.

If not, how is it that the Federal Government has gotten us to a point that only half of our citizens pay income tax.

Those people who were responsible for $1,000.00 in taxes but due to "tax credits" did not end up actually paying, out of pocket, any federal income tax are included in the 50% number you hear in the media.

Any other questions?

 

[edjax1952]

50% of Americans do not pay income tax.

I have been hearing this mantra from the media and politicians for several weeks now. I have not seen any statistical or logical explanation of this statement.

I am hoping that, in this post, I can wrap my head around this monumental claim. How is it that Congress has allowed a set of rules to evolve that facilitates half of the country not paying income tax?

What I suspect is that the real situation involves a few Orwellian idioms which imply that many of these people are not paying income tax when, in fact, they are.

Let me first explain the Orwellian idioms:

Tax credit: A person with children gets a “tax credit”. It is applied to the amount owed the IRS for income tax. For each child $1000 “credit” is added. If that person has three children and owes $1,000 his income tax owed becomes -$2,000 ……..(1000x3) – 1000 = 2000…….. If this were actually a “tax credit” he would owe nothing and he would not receive any refund as he had “credit” for the amount he owed. The IRS ends up paying the man $2000 dollars. This makes the “credit” not a credit at all but an endowment.

Paid income tax: If a person did not make a payment to the IRS in any given year, he did not “pay income tax”
Did he pay income tax that year?

My assumption is that in the statement of “50% of Americans do not pay income tax.” He is included in not paying income tax as he was not required to write a check to the IRS.

In fact he did “pay his income tax” for that year. The IRS elected to pay him (not give credit for) $1000/child and he had three children.

He paid $1000 and received $2000 balance.

Please let me know if I am correct in assuming that these people are included in the 50% tally.

If not, how is it that the Federal Government has gotten us to a point that only half of our citizens pay income tax.

Those people who were responsible for $1,000.00 in taxes but due to "tax credits" did not end up actually paying, out of pocket, any federal income tax are included in the 50% number you hear in the media.

Any other questions?

You do not consider that when a man gets a paycheck and has a tax deduction taken from his paycheck is "out of pocket"?

 

[Lovebears65]

I know for us as a family last year 9000 taxes were taken out . We received a 3000 refund but that still 6000 went towards our taxes. We itemize our taxes so that is with . The only reason we got a refund this year is we pay out of pocket my sons school and that got credited. This year will be the last year of any child credits so who knows if we will get any refund or will have to pay next year. That is just federal taxes. We also pay Georgia taxes. Also pay county and city taxes for owning a house here.

 

[Big Fitz]

Do you understand what effective rate is? Do you think corporations just pay the standard rates you listed?

If you have a problem with exemptions and subsidies most often supported by liberals and globalists, maybe you should start speaking out against them instead of saying "they aren't paying their fair share" instead of trying to play 'three card monte' with the tax rates.

We have been speaking out against these tax loopholes enjoyed by the wealthy and big business. That's the whole point.

Huh... Everytime I hear about a flattening of tax rates and lowering of the brackets but eliminating loopholes...

All I hear is psychotic screaming from the left as their meds wear off and need to be sedated for their own safety....

...again.

 

[RDD_1210]

If you have a problem with exemptions and subsidies most often supported by liberals and globalists, maybe you should start speaking out against them instead of saying "they aren't paying their fair share" instead of trying to play 'three card monte' with the tax rates.

We have been speaking out against these tax loopholes enjoyed by the wealthy and big business. That's the whole point.

Huh... Everytime I hear about a flattening of tax rates and lowering of the brackets but eliminating loopholes...

All I hear is psychotic screaming from the left as their meds wear off and need to be sedated for their own safety....

...again.

Remind me on whether or not you wanted to let the Bush tax cuts expire. Remind me on when the debt ceiling issue was being debated and your view on the deal that proposed larger spending cuts with no tax increases, just the closing of loopholes.

 

[Big Fitz]

We have been speaking out against these tax loopholes enjoyed by the wealthy and big business. That's the whole point.

Huh... Everytime I hear about a flattening of tax rates and lowering of the brackets but eliminating loopholes...

All I hear is psychotic screaming from the left as their meds wear off and need to be sedated for their own safety....

...again.

Remind me on whether or not you wanted to let the Bush tax cuts expire. Remind me on when the debt ceiling issue was being debated and your view on the deal that proposed larger spending cuts with no tax increases, just the closing of loopholes.

My ideal solution would be a return to the last CLINTON budget, and eliminate all agencies or regulations not pertained there-in, and freeze spending there for 10 years.

The tax cuts could then remain and therefore not threaten growth because we should (since we're collecting record revenues) handle that no problem. I know this much, I saw the bush tax cuts in my tax bill that year and helped me while I was not making much money.

I still say ideally we need a flat tax for all brackets on domestically earned income no higher than 10-15% for both individual and corporate income tax with no exemptions or credits... even income based.

You willing to stand up and say that?

 

[DontBeStupid]

I still say ideally we need a flat tax for all brackets on domestically earned income no higher than 10-15% for both individual and corporate income tax with no exemptions or credits... even income based.

You willing to stand up and say that?

I sure as hell won't. That's a massive cut for the wealthy and for corporations while a massive hike for the working poor. While at the same time leaving in place the payroll taxes, which the poor pay a higher percentage of their income on than the wealthy.

Basically, your plan would have it so that the more money you make the LESS is taken out in taxes.

 

[DontBeStupid]

My ideal solution would be a return to the last CLINTON budget, and eliminate all agencies or regulations not pertained there-in, and freeze spending there for 10 years.

Oh, and I forgot to ask, how would you handle the rapid rise in unemployment and unemployment insurance? I mean, after all, you're talking about firing a whole lot of people.

 

[Nic_Driver]

What do the Republicans plan to do with the throngs of homeless that will be created under their Plutocracy?

Seriously, are they going to throw them into an institution of some kind? Do they plan to develop slums and move them all there en mass? Out of sight, out of mind?

Do they want to marginalize them to the point where we have our own version of the "Arab Spring"?

Do they want to take away every single opportunity with which the poor could achieve the "American Dream"?

I just don't understand, do they think the poor are just going to go away when they take their very last cent?

 

[Big Fitz]

My ideal solution would be a return to the last CLINTON budget, and eliminate all agencies or regulations not pertained there-in, and freeze spending there for 10 years.

Oh, and I forgot to ask, how would you handle the rapid rise in unemployment and unemployment insurance? I mean, after all, you're talking about firing a whole lot of people.

Better than Obama. That's how I'd handle it.

 

[Big Fitz]

I still say ideally we need a flat tax for all brackets on domestically earned income no higher than 10-15% for both individual and corporate income tax with no exemptions or credits... even income based.

You willing to stand up and say that?

I sure as hell won't. That's a massive cut for the wealthy and for corporations while a massive hike for the working poor. While at the same time leaving in place the payroll taxes, which the poor pay a higher percentage of their income on than the wealthy.

Basically, your plan would have it so that the more money you make the LESS is taken out in taxes.

Dumbasfuck... I'm not going to bother explaining basic economics and taxation to you. You're too blinded by dogma.

 

[RDD_1210]

My ideal solution would be a return to the last CLINTON budget, and eliminate all agencies or regulations not pertained there-in, and freeze spending there for 10 years.

Oh, and I forgot to ask, how would you handle the rapid rise in unemployment and unemployment insurance? I mean, after all, you're talking about firing a whole lot of people.

Better than Obama. That's how I'd handle it.

You could have just said "I don't know".