Why is the whining over the payroll tax holiday expiration only starting now?

[boedicca]

Low information voters who elected Obama are finally getting whacked with a clue stick.

Raising Taxes on The Rich is just Trojan Horse to raise them on everyone. And in the real world, taking away a temporary cut feels like an increase.

If you go on Twitter you’ll find lots of stuff like this. The clueless-cool set who voted overwhelmingly for Obama are now wondering how come he said taxes weren’t going to go up on 98 percent of the American people when here’s their first paycheck and taxes went up.

Call it Schadenfreude if you like. It’s a nasty habit. But considering that Obama managed to get himself re-elected despite a record more suited for the guillotine by playing Santa Claus, and considering that the media has rightly cast the fiscal cliff deal as a victory for the president and a loss for the Republicans, there’s a valuable silver lining here.

You can’t blame this on the GOP. Obama owns this.

Now, as a matter of policy rather than politics the two percent increase in Social Security withholding today isn’t exactly a tax hike. In fact, folks are paying today what they should have been paying for the last two years; the gimmicky payroll tax holiday was a raid on Social Security’s solvency at a time the program absolutely couldn’t afford it and putting that money back into the system was an urgent necessity.

Particularly given that the economic stimulus the tax holiday was supposed to generate was nonexistent. Which gives the lie to the Democrat idea that tax cuts on middle-class people will goose the economy – people who actually understand economics recognize that true growth comes from savings and investment, which can fuel innovation and technology and the resultant increases in productivity that provide a better standard of living for everybody, but when Nancy Pelosi can claim unemployment benefits create jobs and isn’t laughed out of Congress it’s clear that lessons in reality are sorely needed.

So we’ve now had one of those lessons, and it’s not just an economic lesson – the Social Security tax holiday offered negligible benefits – but a political one as well.

Obama didn’t run on cutting Social Security taxes last year, and he didn’t fight to make those cuts permanent this year. Meaning he didn’t see any political benefit in doing so.

Except today he’s getting the political downside to the shrinkage in take-home pay....

http://thehayride.com/2013/01/silver-linings-reality-comes-to-low-information-voters/

 

[Jroc]

Social Security is separate. Social Security is the lender; the general fund is the borrower. The payroll tax receipts that come in are either paid out in benefits or are used to purchase treasury securities, which are the interest yielding investment by which the Trust Fund grows its assets.

Thanks for explaining the shell game There is nothing in the" trust fund" but paper

And there's probably nothing but paper in your IRA, or your stock portfolio, or your employee pension, your 401K, your savings account, your checking account, or your wallet, for that matter.

Did you have a point?

Those you listed are all your money isn't it? You can leave that money to your family if you wish right? With Social Security you die its gone. The money you didn't pay in payroll tax will grow much better than the money would have in Social Security right? Social Security is a Ponzi scheme and even if you like it was never meant to be raided and spent by politicians, the whole system needs to be reformed....Anything else?

 

[Katzndogz]

It's starting now because up until now the zombies believed that they were punishing the rich. They were so blinded by promises of the rich being shaken down and money falling from the sky that it never occurred to them that when obama meant rich, he meant everyone but him. He is a po black chile after all.

 

[boedicca]

Thanks for explaining the shell game There is nothing in the" trust fund" but paper

And there's probably nothing but paper in your IRA, or your stock portfolio, or your employee pension, your 401K, your savings account, your checking account, or your wallet, for that matter.

Did you have a point?

Those you listed are all your money isn't it? You can leave that money to your family if you wish right? With Social Security you die its gone. The money you didn't pay in payroll tax will grow much better than the money would have in Social Security right? Social Security is a Ponzi scheme and even if you like it was never meant to be raided and spent by politicians, the whole system needs to be reformed....Anything else?

It's very telling that NYC cannot tell the difference between privately held assets and government IOUs stuffed in a fake lockbox that will require taxes on future people to increase.

 

[alan1]

I put the full amount of my payroll tax cut, effectively, into my IRA. How many of you rightwingers here who are always harping about privatizing SS did that?

Eh?

Smart move.
I actually shifted mine to my 401k instead of my IRA. In my situation, that was slightly more beneficial.
I'll leave my 401k as is and just suck up the 2% tax increase to my income.

 

[freedombecki]

Why is the whining over the payroll tax holiday expiration only starting now? You righties had to have known it was going to happen - you did nothing. Did FOX just not give their marching orders until now?

It may have something to do with the implementation of the highest tax hike in American History on its way to be deducted from payrolls in the form of the Affordable Health Care Act.

I found this article, published November 27, 2012 (and some proposals may have already changed one or two items):

Post-Election 2012 Tax Planning Alert: Practical Tax Planning Tips for You, Your Family, and Your business

This article shows that not only will several tax-cuts cause an increase in payroll deductions, but that the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (aka Obamacare) will add more than 20 new taxes, which may or may not be repealed in whole or in part. Due to the uncertainty, the complexity of tax law for 2012 has wrought havoc and may continue to do so in 2013

If congress does nothing:

• January 1, 2013 will represent the date of the largest tax hikes in the history of America
• Long-term capital gains rates will increase from 15% to as high as 23.8%
• The regular tax brackets will change and go up from a high of 35% to the new high of 43.4%, including a new 3.8 Medicare surtax.
• The qualified dividend rate will jump from 15% to as high as 43.4%.
• The payroll and self-employment tax, which were reduced by two percentage points will go up:
• Higher-income families (those married filing jointly taxpayers with income greater than $174,450, and married filing separaely taxpayers with incomes greater than $87,225 will be faced with the itemized deduction phasse-out and exemption phase-out, both of whihc iwll have the effect of increasing tax bite
• 30 million taxpayers could be subject to the harsh and little understood AMT
• The federal estate tax exemption sharply drops from 5.12 million to $1 million and the federal estate tax rate jumps from 35% to 55%.

​

I think this is going to be a very unhappy consumer year. I noticed that already, gasoline is up $.20 a gallon, from Dec. 31 to Jan. 1.

 

[alan1]

Why is the whining over the payroll tax holiday expiration only starting now? You righties had to have known it was going to happen - you did nothing. Did FOX just not give their marching orders until now?

It may have something to do with the implementation of the highest tax hike in American History on its way to be deducted from payrolls in the form of the Affordable Health Care Act.

I found this article, published November 27, 2012 (and some proposals may have already changed one or two items):

Post-Election 2012 Tax Planning Alert: Practical Tax Planning Tips for You, Your Family, and Your business

This article shows that not only will several tax-cuts cause an increase in payroll deductions, but that the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (aka Obamacare) will add more than 20 new taxes, which may or may not be repealed in whole or in part. Due to the uncertainty, the complexity of tax law for 2012 has wrought havoc and may continue to do so in 2013

If congress does nothing:

• January 1, 2013 will represent the date of the largest tax hikes in the history of America
• Long-term capital gains rates will increase from 15% to as high as 23.8%
• The regular tax brackets will change and go up from a high of 35% to the new high of 43.4%, including a new 3.8 Medicare surtax.
• The qualified dividend rate will jump from 15% to as high as 43.4%.
• The payroll and self-employment tax, which were reduced by two percentage points will go up:
• Higher-income families (those married filing jointly taxpayers with income greater than $174,450, and married filing separaely taxpayers with incomes greater than $87,225 will be faced with the itemized deduction phasse-out and exemption phase-out, both of whihc iwll have the effect of increasing tax bite
• 30 million taxpayers could be subject to the harsh and little understood AMT
• The federal estate tax exemption sharply drops from 5.12 million to $1 million and the federal estate tax rate jumps from 35% to 55%.

​

I think this is going to be a very unhappy consumer year. I noticed that already, gasoline is up $.20 a gallon, from Dec. 31 to Jan. 1.

I've never understood why the mere act of dieing suddenly entitles the government to confiscate part of the wealth of the dead person.

 

[freedombecki]

Why is the whining over the payroll tax holiday expiration only starting now? You righties had to have known it was going to happen - you did nothing. Did FOX just not give their marching orders until now?

It may have something to do with the implementation of the highest tax hike in American History on its way to be deducted from payrolls in the form of the Affordable Health Care Act.

I found this article, published November 27, 2012 (and some proposals may have already changed one or two items):

Post-Election 2012 Tax Planning Alert: Practical Tax Planning Tips for You, Your Family, and Your business

This article shows that not only will several tax-cuts cause an increase in payroll deductions, but that the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (aka Obamacare) will add more than 20 new taxes, which may or may not be repealed in whole or in part. Due to the uncertainty, the complexity of tax law for 2012 has wrought havoc and may continue to do so in 2013

If congress does nothing:

• January 1, 2013 will represent the date of the largest tax hikes in the history of America
• Long-term capital gains rates will increase from 15% to as high as 23.8%
• The regular tax brackets will change and go up from a high of 35% to the new high of 43.4%, including a new 3.8 Medicare surtax.
• The qualified dividend rate will jump from 15% to as high as 43.4%.
• The payroll and self-employment tax, which were reduced by two percentage points will go up:
• Higher-income families (those married filing jointly taxpayers with income greater than $174,450, and married filing separaely taxpayers with incomes greater than $87,225 will be faced with the itemized deduction phasse-out and exemption phase-out, both of whihc iwll have the effect of increasing tax bite
• 30 million taxpayers could be subject to the harsh and little understood AMT
• The federal estate tax exemption sharply drops from 5.12 million to $1 million and the federal estate tax rate jumps from 35% to 55%.

​

I think this is going to be a very unhappy consumer year. I noticed that already, gasoline is up $.20 a gallon, from Dec. 31 to Jan. 1.

I've never understood why the mere act of dieing suddenly entitles the government to confiscate part of the wealth of the dead person.

Because we are not rising up and voting out big spenders of other people's money. This is creating a society that rewards loafing and punishes working. The majority pushes for a "something for nothing" paradigm in which the mere being born into a family that endured slavery up until 150 years ago (1863, Emancipation Proclamation became law) entitles one to eternal taking. The people who were taxed without representation like slaves until 1776 may have to work to entitle others to freebies. In that regard, workers will be treated like colonists--pay all profits to somebody else whether you like it or not.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Thanks for explaining the shell game There is nothing in the" trust fund" but paper

And there's probably nothing but paper in your IRA, or your stock portfolio, or your employee pension, your 401K, your savings account, your checking account, or your wallet, for that matter.

Did you have a point?

Those you listed are all your money isn't it? You can leave that money to your family if you wish right? With Social Security you die its gone. The money you didn't pay in payroll tax will grow much better than the money would have in Social Security right? Social Security is a Ponzi scheme and even if you like it was never meant to be raided and spent by politicians, the whole system needs to be reformed....Anything else?

Social Security has always been invested in treasuries.

Social Security is not a Ponzi scheme because Ponzi schemes deplete their principal. Trust fund assets at this time are continuing to go UP annually.

 

[boedicca]

And there's probably nothing but paper in your IRA, or your stock portfolio, or your employee pension, your 401K, your savings account, your checking account, or your wallet, for that matter.

Did you have a point?

Those you listed are all your money isn't it? You can leave that money to your family if you wish right? With Social Security you die its gone. The money you didn't pay in payroll tax will grow much better than the money would have in Social Security right? Social Security is a Ponzi scheme and even if you like it was never meant to be raided and spent by politicians, the whole system needs to be reformed....Anything else?

Social Security has always been invested in treasuries.

Social Security is not a Ponzi scheme because Ponzi schemes deplete their principal. Trust fund assets at this time are continuing to go UP annually.

The SS Lockbox is a ponzi scheme. It's principal (if you actually believe IOUs to be paid by future taxpayers are principal) is systematically being depleted via Inflation.

 

[NYcarbineer]

And there's probably nothing but paper in your IRA, or your stock portfolio, or your employee pension, your 401K, your savings account, your checking account, or your wallet, for that matter.

Did you have a point?

Those you listed are all your money isn't it? You can leave that money to your family if you wish right? With Social Security you die its gone. The money you didn't pay in payroll tax will grow much better than the money would have in Social Security right? Social Security is a Ponzi scheme and even if you like it was never meant to be raided and spent by politicians, the whole system needs to be reformed....Anything else?

It's very telling that NYC cannot tell the difference between privately held assets and government IOUs stuffed in a fake lockbox that will require taxes on future people to increase.

Is your IRA paper or not?

 

[Londoner]

The Right opposed the payroll tax holiday because it only helps the working poor. They are the reason taxes went up on the poor. Don't ever forget it.

 

[Londoner]

Excerpt below taken from here

The payroll tax holiday has the funny effect of flipping the traditional partisan orientation on its head, with Democrats supporting the tax cut and Republicans opposing it.

Why would Republicans, a party with an almost theological devotion to tax cuts, suddenly object to one?

Critics argue it’s because the payroll tax disproportionately benefits the working poor and middle class, and gives a relatively smaller benefit to the wealthy. Social Security taxes are capped at just over $100,000, meaning that any income over that amount doesn’t get taxed at all. So when you cut the tax rate, people who make under $100,000 get a cut on all their income, while those making more than the cap only get it on part. Thus, the richer you are, the less you benefit proportionately from the payroll tax holiday.

The last times the payroll tax cut came up in Congress, at the end of 2011, Republicans insisted that the cost of the holiday be offset with spending cuts so as not to swell the deficit. Curiously, they never made the same demand about the Bush tax cuts, which were never offset.

When it comes to the poor, the Republicans insist tax cuts must be paid for. They don't seem to understand that the poor immediately spend those tax cuts because they're poor and have trouble affording life's necessities. Which is to say: the payroll tax holiday provided a direct stimulus to the economy. Republicans hate this. They'd rather see all the tax cuts go to the wealthy, who have the luxury of being able to save any tax gains they get. That money very rarely finds its way back to the economy. It typically gets routed to an inheritance so that their children don't have to work either.

 

[Darkwind]

What ever happened to the party of fiscal responsibility?
The party that wanted Social Security to pay for itself?

Payroll tax was a nice short term gimmick but it never should have been extended

At least you called it what it was, A GIMMICK used by Obama and Democrats..but that doesn't BOTHER you people..

Wow

So which is it? Payroll tax cut was a good thing or not?

If Social Security was not part of the general fund, it would be a bad thing.

Since Social Security is being raided anyway, the cut didn't really matter because Social Security is going to go bankrupt. It is a given.

So, your position that it is a gimmick is correct. The ending of this gimmick will harm people in real time.

Good work.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Those you listed are all your money isn't it? You can leave that money to your family if you wish right? With Social Security you die its gone. The money you didn't pay in payroll tax will grow much better than the money would have in Social Security right? Social Security is a Ponzi scheme and even if you like it was never meant to be raided and spent by politicians, the whole system needs to be reformed....Anything else?

Social Security has always been invested in treasuries.

Social Security is not a Ponzi scheme because Ponzi schemes deplete their principal. Trust fund assets at this time are continuing to go UP annually.

The SS Lockbox is a ponzi scheme. It's principal (if you actually believe IOUs to be paid by future taxpayers are principal) is systematically being depleted via Inflation.

Are you saying that no one who holds a US treasury bond holds anything of value? that's insane.

 

[boedicca]

Those you listed are all your money isn't it? You can leave that money to your family if you wish right? With Social Security you die its gone. The money you didn't pay in payroll tax will grow much better than the money would have in Social Security right? Social Security is a Ponzi scheme and even if you like it was never meant to be raided and spent by politicians, the whole system needs to be reformed....Anything else?

It's very telling that NYC cannot tell the difference between privately held assets and government IOUs stuffed in a fake lockbox that will require taxes on future people to increase.

Is your IRA paper or not?

My IRA (as well as my 401K and after tax investment) accounts are invested in a variety of stock, bonds, and MM funds. The assets backing these are not IOUs owed by future taxpayers.

 

[NYcarbineer]

At least you called it what it was, A GIMMICK used by Obama and Democrats..but that doesn't BOTHER you people..

Wow

So which is it? Payroll tax cut was a good thing or not?

If Social Security was not part of the general fund, it would be a bad thing.

Since Social Security is being raided anyway, the cut didn't really matter because Social Security is going to go bankrupt. It is a given.

So, your position that it is a gimmick is correct. The ending of this gimmick will harm people in real time.

Good work.

Social Security was one year away from bankruptcy in 1983. Tell us, in your own words, why it didn't go bankrupt.

Why it wasn't a 'given'.

 

[boedicca]

Wow

So which is it? Payroll tax cut was a good thing or not?

If Social Security was not part of the general fund, it would be a bad thing.

Since Social Security is being raided anyway, the cut didn't really matter because Social Security is going to go bankrupt. It is a given.

So, your position that it is a gimmick is correct. The ending of this gimmick will harm people in real time.

Good work.

Social Security was one year away from bankruptcy in 1983. Tell us, in your own words, why it didn't go bankrupt.

Why it wasn't a 'given'.

They raised taxes. Duh.

FICA & SECA Tax Rates


And they kept raising them...and will raise them in the future.

Don't you find it telling that SS plus Medicare taxes are more than the tax rate on the EVUL Rich when the income tax was first adopted?

U.S. Federal Individual Income Tax Rates History, 1913-2011 (Nominal and Inflation-Adjusted Brackets) | Tax Foundation

 

[NYcarbineer]

It's very telling that NYC cannot tell the difference between privately held assets and government IOUs stuffed in a fake lockbox that will require taxes on future people to increase.

Is your IRA paper or not?

My IRA (as well as my 401K and after tax investment) accounts are invested in a variety of stock, bonds, and MM funds. The assets backing these are not IOUs owed by future taxpayers.

And all of them are judged to be higher risk than US treasuries. Why is that?

(except perhaps your money market funds which is probably in large part invested in US treasuries, ironically)

 

[boedicca]

Is your IRA paper or not?

My IRA (as well as my 401K and after tax investment) accounts are invested in a variety of stock, bonds, and MM funds. The assets backing these are not IOUs owed by future taxpayers.

And all of them are judged to be higher risk than US treasuries. Why is that?

(except perhaps your money market funds which is probably in large part invested in US treasuries, ironically)

Because the Federal Government has GUNS with which to force taxpayers into submission.

What rate are people earning on Treasuries these days, btw?