Why is the whining over the payroll tax holiday expiration only starting now?

[midcan5]

You gotta say one thing for Ronald Reagan and his administration, they raised taxes constantly, and yet the right wing hadn't yet become the Pavlov dog of taxes. Reagan's folks fooled the right wing fools into thinking they were getting tax cuts. One of the great cons of modern American history. Paid pipers will create a history for the braindead republicans and they will all bark on cue. Today like puppies they yap and yap whenever the word tax is mentioned. They are some of the most trained citizens the world has ever known. Pavlov would have loved them.

To be fair, I do give Reagan credit for raising taxes many times, and in a bipartisan manner helping social security. http://www.usmessageboard.com/education/126617-reagan-and-taxes.html

"It’s conservative lore that Reagan the icon cut taxes, while George H.W. Bush the renegade raised them. As Stockman recalls, "No one was authorized to talk about tax increases on Ronald Reagan’s watch, no matter what kind of tax, no matter how justified it was." Yet raising taxes is exactly what Reagan did. He did not always instigate those hikes or agree to them willingly–but he signed off on them. One year after his massive tax cut, Reagan agreed to a tax increase to reduce the deficit that restored fully one-third of the previous year’s reduction. (In a bizarre bit of self-deception, Reagan, who never came to terms with this episode of ideological apostasy, persuaded himself that the three-year, $100 billion tax hike–the largest since World War II–was actually "tax reform" that closed loopholes in his earlier cut and therefore didn’t count as raising taxes.)

Faced with looming deficits, Reagan raised taxes again in 1983 with a gasoline tax and once more in 1984, this time by $50 billion over three years, mainly through closing tax loopholes for business. Despite the fact that such increases were anathema to conservatives–and probably cost Reagan’s successor, George H.W. Bush, reelection–Reagan raised taxes a grand total of four times just between 1982-84." Newsflash: Ronald Reagan Raised Taxes (You Idiots) | Firedoglake

 

[NYcarbineer]

If Social Security was not part of the general fund, it would be a bad thing.

Since Social Security is being raided anyway, the cut didn't really matter because Social Security is going to go bankrupt. It is a given.

So, your position that it is a gimmick is correct. The ending of this gimmick will harm people in real time.

Good work.

Social Security was one year away from bankruptcy in 1983. Tell us, in your own words, why it didn't go bankrupt.

Why it wasn't a 'given'.

They raised taxes. Duh.

FICA & SECA Tax Rates


And they kept raising them...and will raise them in the future.

Don't you find it telling that SS plus Medicare taxes are more than the tax rate on the EVUL Rich when the income tax was first adopted?

U.S. Federal Individual Income Tax Rates History, 1913-2011 (Nominal and Inflation-Adjusted Brackets) | Tax Foundation

So in your opinion, the 1983 fix of SS involved raising the payroll tax (I won't bother to go into why that's only a partial answer)

and yet you're now complaining both that SS is going to go bankrupt AND that the payroll tax is being raised back to where it was.

You're not making any sense whatsoever.

 

[NYcarbineer]

My IRA (as well as my 401K and after tax investment) accounts are invested in a variety of stock, bonds, and MM funds. The assets backing these are not IOUs owed by future taxpayers.

And all of them are judged to be higher risk than US treasuries. Why is that?

(except perhaps your money market funds which is probably in large part invested in US treasuries, ironically)

Because the Federal Government has GUNS with which to force taxpayers into submission.

What rate are people earning on Treasuries these days, btw?

Now you're off in the weeds. You need to learn to cope better with losing an argument.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Those you listed are all your money isn't it? You can leave that money to your family if you wish right? With Social Security you die its gone. The money you didn't pay in payroll tax will grow much better than the money would have in Social Security right? Social Security is a Ponzi scheme and even if you like it was never meant to be raided and spent by politicians, the whole system needs to be reformed....Anything else?

Social Security has always been invested in treasuries.

Social Security is not a Ponzi scheme because Ponzi schemes deplete their principal. Trust fund assets at this time are continuing to go UP annually.

The SS Lockbox is a ponzi scheme. It's principal (if you actually believe IOUs to be paid by future taxpayers are principal) is systematically being depleted via Inflation.

All principal in any bond is an IOU owed by someone. Why is that concept so alien to rightwingers.

Do you know nothing about finance?

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

You gotta say one thing for Ronald Reagan and his administration, they raised taxes constantly, and yet the right wing hadn't yet become the Pavlov dog of taxes. Reagan's folks fooled the right wing fools into thinking they were getting tax cuts. One of the great cons of modern American history. Paid pipers will create a history for the braindead republicans and they will all bark on cue. Today like puppies they yap and yap whenever the word tax is mentioned. They are some of the most trained citizens the world has ever known. Pavlov would have loved them.

To be fair, I do give Reagan credit for raising taxes many times, and in a bipartisan manner helping social security. http://www.usmessageboard.com/education/126617-reagan-and-taxes.html

"It’s conservative lore that Reagan the icon cut taxes, while George H.W. Bush the renegade raised them. As Stockman recalls, "No one was authorized to talk about tax increases on Ronald Reagan’s watch, no matter what kind of tax, no matter how justified it was." Yet raising taxes is exactly what Reagan did. He did not always instigate those hikes or agree to them willingly–but he signed off on them. One year after his massive tax cut, Reagan agreed to a tax increase to reduce the deficit that restored fully one-third of the previous year’s reduction. (In a bizarre bit of self-deception, Reagan, who never came to terms with this episode of ideological apostasy, persuaded himself that the three-year, $100 billion tax hike–the largest since World War II–was actually "tax reform" that closed loopholes in his earlier cut and therefore didn’t count as raising taxes.)

Faced with looming deficits, Reagan raised taxes again in 1983 with a gasoline tax and once more in 1984, this time by $50 billion over three years, mainly through closing tax loopholes for business. Despite the fact that such increases were anathema to conservatives–and probably cost Reagan’s successor, George H.W. Bush, reelection–Reagan raised taxes a grand total of four times just between 1982-84." Newsflash: Ronald Reagan Raised Taxes (You Idiots) | Firedoglake

Exactly.

The Reagan WH didn’t have to deal with the idiocy of the radical fiscal right Obama must deal with today.

 

[Charles_Main]

Why is the whining over the payroll tax holiday expiration only starting now? You righties had to have known it was going to happen - you did nothing. Did FOX just not give their marching orders until now?

Why is it happening? It's not the right driving the bitching moron. It's the poor. It's all those fools that believed Obama when he said taxes would only go up on the rich. Who are now getting their first pay checks and noticing they are smaller.

God but you are blind to reality.

 

[Charles_Main]

Social Security has always been invested in treasuries.

Social Security is not a Ponzi scheme because Ponzi schemes deplete their principal. Trust fund assets at this time are continuing to go UP annually.

The SS Lockbox is a ponzi scheme. It's principal (if you actually believe IOUs to be paid by future taxpayers are principal) is systematically being depleted via Inflation.

All principal in any bond is an IOU owed by someone. Why is that concept so alien to rightwingers.

Do you know nothing about finance?

Do you know anything about SS? It was never suppose to be used in this way, or issued IOU's. The money is suppose to be there, Earning interest, not funding every spending program DC dreams up but does not want to pay for.

 

[boedicca]

Social Security has always been invested in treasuries.

Social Security is not a Ponzi scheme because Ponzi schemes deplete their principal. Trust fund assets at this time are continuing to go UP annually.

The SS Lockbox is a ponzi scheme. It's principal (if you actually believe IOUs to be paid by future taxpayers are principal) is systematically being depleted via Inflation.

All principal in any bond is an IOU owed by someone. Why is that concept so alien to rightwingers.

Do you know nothing about finance?

I know the difference between corporate bonds which are backed by the assets and cashflow of a viable business and ones which are backed by the government seizing the earnings of people who are currently young children.

Do you no nothing about Morality and Ethics?

 

[NYcarbineer]

The SS Lockbox is a ponzi scheme. It's principal (if you actually believe IOUs to be paid by future taxpayers are principal) is systematically being depleted via Inflation.

All principal in any bond is an IOU owed by someone. Why is that concept so alien to rightwingers.

Do you know nothing about finance?

I know the difference between corporate bonds which are backed by the assets and cashflow of a viable business and ones which are backed by the government seizing the earnings of people who are currently young children.

Do you no nothing about Morality and Ethics?

Taxation is immoral now? What sort of government do you propose we have, that cannot tax?

 

[NYcarbineer]

The SS Lockbox is a ponzi scheme. It's principal (if you actually believe IOUs to be paid by future taxpayers are principal) is systematically being depleted via Inflation.

All principal in any bond is an IOU owed by someone. Why is that concept so alien to rightwingers.

Do you know nothing about finance?

Do you know anything about SS? It was never suppose to be used in this way, or issued IOU's. The money is suppose to be there, Earning interest, not funding every spending program DC dreams up but does not want to pay for.

LOLOL you idiot. Who pays you interest to keep your money in a bag at the bank? Have you no idea why ANYONE borrows money and pays interest on it?

To USE it you stupid idiot.

 

[boedicca]

Social Security was one year away from bankruptcy in 1983. Tell us, in your own words, why it didn't go bankrupt.

Why it wasn't a 'given'.

They raised taxes. Duh.

FICA & SECA Tax Rates


And they kept raising them...and will raise them in the future.

Don't you find it telling that SS plus Medicare taxes are more than the tax rate on the EVUL Rich when the income tax was first adopted?

U.S. Federal Individual Income Tax Rates History, 1913-2011 (Nominal and Inflation-Adjusted Brackets) | Tax Foundation

So in your opinion, the 1983 fix of SS involved raising the payroll tax (I won't bother to go into why that's only a partial answer)

and yet you're now complaining both that SS is going to go bankrupt AND that the payroll tax is being raised back to where it was.

You're not making any sense whatsoever.

I'm not complaining, bub. I'm pointing out how the working classes have been duped by this tax increase on The Rich.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Why is the whining over the payroll tax holiday expiration only starting now? You righties had to have known it was going to happen - you did nothing. Did FOX just not give their marching orders until now?

Because all the idiots that voted for Obama believed he his lies about not raising taxes on the middle class?

 

[NYcarbineer]

You have to laugh at these people who think their money would be safer if it wasn't going to SS, because SS is going to go bankrupt and the US government is going to default on its obligations.

You think that same money in stocks will be better off if the US starts defaulting on its debts?

lol, you people are truly children.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Why is the whining over the payroll tax holiday expiration only starting now? You righties had to have known it was going to happen - you did nothing. Did FOX just not give their marching orders until now?

Lol, conservatives knew this was coming, and it's just stating. Liberals are whining about it , and some are blaming bush for their tax increase. That's what they get for believing everything obama says, like only the rich taxes going up. I thought stupid was forever, but liberals are proving ignorance could be also.

All the threads "whining" about this have been started by "Conservatives".

I must admit I haven't been paying attention, do you have links?

 

[NYcarbineer]

They raised taxes. Duh.

FICA & SECA Tax Rates


And they kept raising them...and will raise them in the future.

Don't you find it telling that SS plus Medicare taxes are more than the tax rate on the EVUL Rich when the income tax was first adopted?

U.S. Federal Individual Income Tax Rates History, 1913-2011 (Nominal and Inflation-Adjusted Brackets) | Tax Foundation

So in your opinion, the 1983 fix of SS involved raising the payroll tax (I won't bother to go into why that's only a partial answer)

and yet you're now complaining both that SS is going to go bankrupt AND that the payroll tax is being raised back to where it was.

You're not making any sense whatsoever.

I'm not complaining, bub. I'm pointing out how the working classes have been duped by this tax increase on The Rich.

If you believed the payroll tax should never have been cut in the first place then you should be praising Obama for not pushing to extend the cut.

 

[JoeB131]

I find it amusing (not!) the whining and gnashing of teeth over the tax cut expiration astronomically exceeds the cheering and thanking given by them to Obama when the tax cut was enacted in the first place.

They have paid less taxes for the past two years than they otherwise would have, thanks to Obama, and have somehow managed to find a way to piss and moan about it!

Because Obama...

A lot of us never saw that tax cut. When the SS tax was cut, the State of IL raised state income taxes by a reciporical amount. So our tax rate actually remained about the same.

 

[boedicca]

So in your opinion, the 1983 fix of SS involved raising the payroll tax (I won't bother to go into why that's only a partial answer)

and yet you're now complaining both that SS is going to go bankrupt AND that the payroll tax is being raised back to where it was.

You're not making any sense whatsoever.

I'm not complaining, bub. I'm pointing out how the working classes have been duped by this tax increase on The Rich.

If you believed the payroll tax should never have been cut in the first place then you should be praising Obama for not pushing to extend the cut.

I don't believe that. I believe we should move to a Chilean style system in which individuals own their retirement savings accounts, instead of one in which the government plunders it to spend on rewarding their Cronies.

 

[boedicca]

I find it amusing (not!) the whining and gnashing of teeth over the tax cut expiration astronomically exceeds the cheering and thanking given by them to Obama when the tax cut was enacted in the first place.

They have paid less taxes for the past two years than they otherwise would have, thanks to Obama, and have somehow managed to find a way to piss and moan about it!

Because Obama...

A lot of us never saw that tax cut. When the SS tax was cut, the State of IL raised state income taxes by a reciporical amount. So our tax rate actually remained about the same.

Nobody realized a benefit from the temporary SS tax cut. Energy and food inflation ate up the entire amount.

 

[JoeB131]

I'm not complaining, bub. I'm pointing out how the working classes have been duped by this tax increase on The Rich.

If you believed the payroll tax should never have been cut in the first place then you should be praising Obama for not pushing to extend the cut.

I don't believe that. I believe we should move to a Chilean style system in which individuals own their retirement savings accounts, instead of one in which the government plunders it to spend on rewarding their Cronies.

Right.

I keep a copy of my 401K statement from 2008, Q4, to remind myself of how asspoundingly retarded that idea is.

 

[JoeB131]

I find it amusing (not!) the whining and gnashing of teeth over the tax cut expiration astronomically exceeds the cheering and thanking given by them to Obama when the tax cut was enacted in the first place.

They have paid less taxes for the past two years than they otherwise would have, thanks to Obama, and have somehow managed to find a way to piss and moan about it!

Because Obama...

A lot of us never saw that tax cut. When the SS tax was cut, the State of IL raised state income taxes by a reciporical amount. So our tax rate actually remained about the same.

Nobody realized a benefit from the temporary SS tax cut. Energy and food inflation ate up the entire amount.

So you didn't get any raises in the last four years. I'll admit, mine have been pretty pathetic, but I got them. So did most people.

Incidently, inflation has been relatively weak in the last four years. We even had deflation for a while there in 2009.