Zone1 Why Does God Allow Us to Suffer?

[Hellbilly]

He is arguing against such a thing, which indicates he thinks that it's even possible. Think about it. Do you argue against not being able to tear toilet paper? I thought you had the ability to make that leap in logic?

The question I am asking is how are we born with sin?

 

[Meriweather]

The question I am asking is how are we born with sin?

We are born with human nature, which--in time--leads to the ability to commit personal sin--meaning we can choose to do wrong over choosing to do right. Babies are not born with the knowledge of right and wrong--or the capability of choosing right from wrong--any more than they are born with the knowledge of numbers and the capability of reciting addition and subtraction tables.

Why are you confused about this? Have you witnessed newborns doing something wrong?

 

[Hellbilly]

We are born with human nature, which--in time--leads to the ability to commit personal sin--meaning we can choose to do wrong over choosing to do right. Babies are not born with the knowledge of right and wrong--or the capability of choosing right from wrong--any more than they are born with the knowledge of numbers and the capability of reciting addition and subtraction tables.

Why are you confused about this? Have you witnessed newborns doing something wrong?

What I would like is a straight answer. Are we born with sin or not.
I only need to read one of two words from you.
Those words are either yes or no.

 

[Meriweather]

What I would like is a straight answer. Are we born with sin or not.
I only need to read one of two words from you.
Those words are either yes or no.

Shrug. Then choose one, either one for all I care. Or perhaps you can explain your point? What are you arguing about and who are you arguing with?

 

[Hellbilly]

Shrug. Then choose one, either one for all I care. Or perhaps you can explain your point? What are you arguing about and who are you arguing with?

OK. So either you can't answer a simple question or you won't.

 

[Meriweather]

OK. So either you can't answer a simple question or you won't.

I did answer your question--and from two different perspectives. Wishing you a pleasant day.

 

[Hellbilly]

I did answer your question--and from two different perspectives. Wishing you a pleasant day.

You did nothing of the kind. Conversing with you is pointless.

 

[Meriweather]

You did nothing of the kind. Conversing with you is pointless.

When you know a few basics about either babies or sin, perhaps we can try again. Can you at least tell me what sin(s) you believe babies are capable of committing? If you don't believe they are capable of committing any, then what are you talking about?

 

[Hellbilly]

Can you at least tell me what sin(s) you believe babies are capable of committing? I

None whatsoever.

If you don't believe they are capable of committing any, then what are you talking about?

Road Runner claims Jesus is the only person this was born without sin.

Except for Jesus Christ. He was the only person born without sin.

Which means anyone who is not Jesus Christ is born with sin.
Is Road Runner correct when she says that only Jesus is born without sin? If she is right tell me how a baby can be born with sin.

 

[Meriweather]

Which means anyone who is not Jesus Christ is born with sin.
Is @Road Runner correct when she says that only Jesus is born without sin? If she is right tell me how a baby can be born with sin.

Which means Road Runner is using shorthand for what is commonly known as Original Sin, or the potential of all mankind to choose doing wrong over doing what is right. Christians believe Jesus was born with two natures, one divine, and one human, and that he always chose right over wrong. Now, Catholic Christians believe that Mary, too, was born without Original Sin or that potential of all mankind to choose doing wrong over doing what is right. Non-Catholic Christians believe Mary sinned as much as any other person.

Road Runner said nothing about a newborn being capable of personal sin--of choosing to do something wrong instead of doing what it somehow knew to be right.

I explained both of these in previous posts and still don't understand your confusion. Is it human nature to sometimes choose to do what is wrong instead of choosing to do what is right? Yes. Does a newborn have knowledge of what is right and what is wrong? No. Sin is deliberately choosing to do what one knows is wrong. Therefore, since a newborn has no knowledge of right and wrong, it cannot yet choose to do wrong (sin).

Now, while the Abrahamic religions all believe in the Fall of Man, I believe it is only Christianity that sometimes uses the term for the Fall of Man as "Original Sin." The Fall of Man affected of mankind, and by this definition Jews and Muslims most likely believe Jesus and Mary were as affected by the Fall of Man as any other person who was born. As atheists hold no belief in God, it follows they have no belief in the Fall of Man/Original Sin, either. I certainly know of no atheist who believes a newborn commits sin--and I know quite a few atheists.

 

[Road Runner]

That is why I also believe that Jesus wasn't born knowing the difference between right and wrong. He was all human as well as all God so I believe that He had to be taught just like everybody else and that He was told no from time to time until He learned what was acceptable and what wasn't, the only difference is that when He was told no He obeyed right from the beginning. Sin doesn't become sin until you actually can comprehend that what you're doing is wrong therefore Jesus wasn't sinning as a young child if He didn't know any better yet.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

He is arguing against such a thing, which indicates he thinks that it's even possible.

No it doesn't. By any stretch of fantasy. It would only mean that it is possible someone else believes it.

Do better. We have enough dishonest trolls around here that waste pages by misrepresenting people.

 

[ding]

My fiancee and I currently feel abandoned by God with some real life struggles and are currently feeling miserable about it.


We're both wondering if He loves us so much then why does it currently seem like He's ignoring our prayers and allowing us to suffer without getting any answers whether they be yes or no? Just some kind of acknowledgement at least that He's listening.



I thought that Jesus was supposed to answer when you called on His name, but I called for Him until I was blue in the face last night and still nothing.

Ahhh... the story of Job so to speak. There's a couple of different ways that can be answered. But the easiest is that we don't have perfect knowledge. God does. Steel requires a stone to sharpen it.

 

[ding]

I thought that Jesus was supposed to answer when you called on His name, but I called for Him until I was blue in the face last night and still nothing.

I don't think it works like that.

 

[ding]

None whatsoever.


Road Runner claims Jesus is the only person this was born without sin.

Which means anyone who is not Jesus Christ is born with sin.
Is Road Runner correct when she says that only Jesus is born without sin? If she is right tell me how a baby can be born with sin.

God isn't a mystery to be solved through theology. God is a relationship to be entered into.

Seems to me you are looking for excuses not to take that step. Seems like a waste of your time to me. You don't need to rationalize your choice.

 

[Road Runner]

I don't think it works like that.

So then, how do you think it works?

 

[ding]

So then, how do you think it works?

Prayer is for asking God what he wants us to do for him.

Everyone is subject to impositions. That's just life. Find something to be thankful for and then ask what it was you were supposed to learn. That's how one brings about order from chaos. Or at least that's the first step.

 

[there4eyeM]

Why Does God Allow Us to Suffer?​

This question has been asked for thousands of years and an answer that satisfies people has not been provided. When a question keeps being posed so long without finding a response, it is found to be the wrong question.

 

[Meriweather]

This question has been asked for thousands of years and an answer that satisfies people has not been provided. When a question keeps being posed so long without finding a response, it is found to be the wrong question.

That is an outstanding point. Most likely the best thought of the day.
One different question: What do we learn from suffering?

What other questions should we be investigating?

 

[ding]

Why Does God Allow Us to Suffer?​

This question has been asked for thousands of years and an answer that satisfies people has not been provided. When a question keeps being posed so long without finding a response, it is found to be the wrong question.

I think there are several answers to that question. The reason it keeps getting asked is because people won't accept the valid answers that have been given. So from that perspective it is a wrong question because it has been asked and answered.