Tolerance and Bigotry: What happens when the shoe is on the other foot?

[Andylusion]

It is not about refusing business but doing business that benefits the community as a whole.

You can't do business with a business that has been shut down because a thin skinned customer sued them under the law because he or she had his or her feelings hurt by the religious consciences of the proprietor. Tell me, you speak of business and community... yet this kind of behavior, (i.e. suing a religious cake maker for not catering a gay wedding, and subsequently having them eviscerated from the marketplace) only harms the community, does it not? The glue that should bind business and community should be tolerance, on both sides of the spectrum, but neither side is willing to show it.

Nobody wants to meet in the middle, simply because they are too busy prejudging each other.

Yes, actually that's true. You are harming the entire community by eliminate jobs and services, when you drive someone out of business because they have a religious belief you don't like.

But... I for one, will just open another business. You shut that down, and I'll open another. Some you will drive out, and they'll go somewhere else that is more tolerant, and benefit that community.

However, what you will not do, is change our faith. You are not going to change what we believe, or us worshiping our G-d. That's never going away.

Prejudging? We're not prejudging anything. Homosexuality is a sin in our belief. That's what G-d said, and that's what we believe. There is nothing prejudging about it.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

It is not about refusing business but doing business that benefits the community as a whole.

You can't do business with a business that has been shut down because a thin skinned customer sued them under the law because he or she had his or her feelings hurt by the religious consciences of the proprietor. Tell me, you speak of business and community... yet this kind of behavior, (i.e. suing a religious cake maker for not catering a gay wedding, and subsequently having them eviscerated from the marketplace) only harms the community, does it not? The glue that should bind business and community should be tolerance, on both sides of the spectrum, but neither side is willing to show it.

Nobody wants to meet in the middle, simply because they are too busy prejudging each other.

Yes, actually that's true. You are harming the entire community by eliminate jobs and services, when you drive someone out of business because they have a religious belief you don't like.

But... I for one, will just open another business. You shut that down, and I'll open another. Some you will drive out, and they'll go somewhere else that is more tolerant, and benefit that community.

However, what you will not do, is change our faith. You are not going to change what we believe, or us worshiping our G-d. That's never going away.

Prejudging? We're not prejudging anything. Homosexuality is a sin in our belief. That's what G-d said, and that's what we believe. There is nothing prejudging about it.

What kind of Jew are you with the G-d bit?

And, someone puts a gun to head as says either renounce your faith or die. What do you do?

 

[Andylusion]

It is not about refusing business but doing business that benefits the community as a whole.

You can't do business with a business that has been shut down because a thin skinned customer sued them under the law because he or she had his or her feelings hurt by the religious consciences of the proprietor. Tell me, you speak of business and community... yet this kind of behavior, (i.e. suing a religious cake maker for not catering a gay wedding, and subsequently having them eviscerated from the marketplace) only harms the community, does it not? The glue that should bind business and community should be tolerance, on both sides of the spectrum, but neither side is willing to show it.

Nobody wants to meet in the middle, simply because they are too busy prejudging each other.

Yes, actually that's true. You are harming the entire community by eliminate jobs and services, when you drive someone out of business because they have a religious belief you don't like.

But... I for one, will just open another business. You shut that down, and I'll open another. Some you will drive out, and they'll go somewhere else that is more tolerant, and benefit that community.

However, what you will not do, is change our faith. You are not going to change what we believe, or us worshiping our G-d. That's never going away.

Prejudging? We're not prejudging anything. Homosexuality is a sin in our belief. That's what G-d said, and that's what we believe. There is nothing prejudging about it.

What kind of Jew are you with the G-d bit?

And, someone puts a gun to head as says either renounce your faith or die. What do you do?

I would die. Absolutely.

What do you think those Coptic Christians from Egypt being beheaded was all about?

The video made public on Feb. 15 shows each of the men dressed in orange jumpsuits, kneeling on a beach, with their black-clothed attackers standing behind them. Each one is systematically beheaded and the video clearly shows many of the men praying “Lord Jesus Christ” in their final moments.

According to reports, Mathew Ayairga was not a Christian. However, when moments before his death the IS extremists demanded that he follow Islam, Mathew turned them down. After reportedly witnessing the “immense faith” of the Egyptian believers, and he decided to become a follower of Christ.

On camera, one of the terrorists asked Matthew, “Do you reject Christ?”

“Their God is my God,” he responded, and he became one of the 21 men laying down their lives for their faith in Christ.
​

You people have been trying to stamp out Christianity for 2,000 years. Christians have died for their faith, from the time of the Romans, until today.

Yes sir. I would choose death. Praise G-d that isn't likely here. But if push comes to shove... I will go with the Coptics.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

It is not about refusing business but doing business that benefits the community as a whole.

You can't do business with a business that has been shut down because a thin skinned customer sued them under the law because he or she had his or her feelings hurt by the religious consciences of the proprietor. Tell me, you speak of business and community... yet this kind of behavior, (i.e. suing a religious cake maker for not catering a gay wedding, and subsequently having them eviscerated from the marketplace) only harms the community, does it not? The glue that should bind business and community should be tolerance, on both sides of the spectrum, but neither side is willing to show it.

Nobody wants to meet in the middle, simply because they are too busy prejudging each other.

Yes, actually that's true. You are harming the entire community by eliminate jobs and services, when you drive someone out of business because they have a religious belief you don't like.

But... I for one, will just open another business. You shut that down, and I'll open another. Some you will drive out, and they'll go somewhere else that is more tolerant, and benefit that community.

However, what you will not do, is change our faith. You are not going to change what we believe, or us worshiping our G-d. That's never going away.

Prejudging? We're not prejudging anything. Homosexuality is a sin in our belief. That's what G-d said, and that's what we believe. There is nothing prejudging about it.

What kind of Jew are you with the G-d bit?

And, someone puts a gun to head as says either renounce your faith or die. What do you do?

I would die. Absolutely.

Good. That's faith.

 

[TemplarKormac]

I have co-workers where I work now. Two in fact, that are gay. And, we get along fine.

See? People can get along! What a concept, right?

 

[JoeB131]

[ May I remind you that such a responsibility lies with the customer to find what is adequate for his or her needs. However, such a need should not completely trump the religious conscience of the proprietor if such a service requires the proprietor to take part in something his religious teachings tell him is reprehensible.

Shouldn't it be on the proprietor to not engage in a business where he might do something hedoesn't like or engage in behavior his fairy tales says is bad.

Here's the key thing. There are a whole bunch of behaviors the Bible says are bad.

But I'm willing to bet that your bakers and photographers and florists will still take their money if the bride isn't a virgin on her wedding night or if she has braids in her hair. (Both of wich the bible says is bad.)

 

[aris2chat]

ISIS Executes Pigeon and Bird Breeders in Diyala Iraq - NBC News

It is not about refusing business but doing business that benefits the community as a whole.

You can't do business with a business that has been shut down because a thin skinned customer sued them under the law because he or she had his or her feelings hurt by the religious consciences of the proprietor. Tell me, you speak of business and community... yet this kind of behavior, (i.e. suing a religious cake maker for not catering a gay wedding, and subsequently having them eviscerated from the marketplace) only harms the community, does it not? The glue that should bind business and community should be tolerance, on both sides of the spectrum, but neither side is willing to show it.

Nobody wants to meet in the middle, simply because they are too busy prejudging each other.

Yes, actually that's true. You are harming the entire community by eliminate jobs and services, when you drive someone out of business because they have a religious belief you don't like.

But... I for one, will just open another business. You shut that down, and I'll open another. Some you will drive out, and they'll go somewhere else that is more tolerant, and benefit that community.

However, what you will not do, is change our faith. You are not going to change what we believe, or us worshiping our G-d. That's never going away.

Prejudging? We're not prejudging anything. Homosexuality is a sin in our belief. That's what G-d said, and that's what we believe. There is nothing prejudging about it.

and yet churches and even the pope are welcoming gays. Some are even being led by gay ministers

Jesus did not say anything about it being a sin. He did mention not throwing stones if you are not without sin.

so can you truly say you are without any sin at all, at any time in you life?

How about prejudice and hate? Not loving your brother? Defaming others? Not treating others are equals or as you would want others to treat you?

 

[aris2chat]

It is not about refusing business but doing business that benefits the community as a whole.

You can't do business with a business that has been shut down because a thin skinned customer sued them under the law because he or she had his or her feelings hurt by the religious consciences of the proprietor. Tell me, you speak of business and community... yet this kind of behavior, (i.e. suing a religious cake maker for not catering a gay wedding, and subsequently having them eviscerated from the marketplace) only harms the community, does it not? The glue that should bind business and community should be tolerance, on both sides of the spectrum, but neither side is willing to show it.

Nobody wants to meet in the middle, simply because they are too busy prejudging each other.

Yes, actually that's true. You are harming the entire community by eliminate jobs and services, when you drive someone out of business because they have a religious belief you don't like.

But... I for one, will just open another business. You shut that down, and I'll open another. Some you will drive out, and they'll go somewhere else that is more tolerant, and benefit that community.

However, what you will not do, is change our faith. You are not going to change what we believe, or us worshiping our G-d. That's never going away.

Prejudging? We're not prejudging anything. Homosexuality is a sin in our belief. That's what G-d said, and that's what we believe. There is nothing prejudging about it.

What kind of Jew are you with the G-d bit?

And, someone puts a gun to head as says either renounce your faith or die. What do you do?

I would die. Absolutely.

What do you think those Coptic Christians from Egypt being beheaded was all about?

The video made public on Feb. 15 shows each of the men dressed in orange jumpsuits, kneeling on a beach, with their black-clothed attackers standing behind them. Each one is systematically beheaded and the video clearly shows many of the men praying “Lord Jesus Christ” in their final moments.

According to reports, Mathew Ayairga was not a Christian. However, when moments before his death the IS extremists demanded that he follow Islam, Mathew turned them down. After reportedly witnessing the “immense faith” of the Egyptian believers, and he decided to become a follower of Christ.

On camera, one of the terrorists asked Matthew, “Do you reject Christ?”

“Their God is my God,” he responded, and he became one of the 21 men laying down their lives for their faith in Christ.
​

You people have been trying to stamp out Christianity for 2,000 years. Christians have died for their faith, from the time of the Romans, until today.

Yes sir. I would choose death. Praise G-d that isn't likely here. But if push comes to shove... I will go with the Coptics.

Sounds suicidal

 

[aris2chat]

sorry, got interrupted with one post and came back to answer another later on

 

[TemplarKormac]

Jesus did not say anything about it being a sin.

We both know that isn't true.

"They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator-- who is forever praised. Amen. Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion."

Romans 1:25-27 NIV

That is a direct condemnation of Homosexuality. And since the person who wrote this was Paul, it then serves to reason that as one of Jesus' disciples, he was reflecting Jesus' and ultimately God's will. Thusly one can only reason that both Jesus and God would condemn homosexuality as sinful, and Paul was merely conveying such sentiment.

 

[TemplarKormac]

so can you truly say you are without any sin at all, at any time in you life?

For me, I never claimed I wasn't. In some ways I am backslidden in my faith. None of us are perfect.

How about prejudice and hate? Not loving your brother? Defaming others? Not treating others are equals or as you would want others to treat you?

And this is where I lose patience. Prejudice and hatred are...for the one hundred millionth time... universal. You cite the golden rule, but are propensed to treat dissent in the exact same hateful and prejudiced fashion. Like I've pointed out to others in this thread, practice what you preach.

 

[Pogo]

Jesus did not say anything about it being a sin.

We both know that isn't true.

"They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator-- who is forever praised. Amen. Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion."

Romans 1:25-27 NIV

That is a direct condemnation of Homosexuality. And since the person who wrote this was Paul, it then serves to reason that as one of Jesus' disciples, he was reflecting Jesus' and ultimately God's will. Thusly one can only reason that both Jesus and God would condemn homosexuality as sinful, and Paul was merely conveying such sentiment.

Riiiiiiiight. "I am only a messenger". Like a writer has no power over his own words.

Delusionists...

 

[aris2chat]

Jesus did not say anything about it being a sin.

We both know that isn't true.

"They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator-- who is forever praised. Amen. Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion."

Romans 1:25-27 NIV

That is a direct condemnation of Homosexuality. And since the person who wrote this was Paul, then it serves to reason that as Jesus' disciple, he was reflecting Jesus' and ultimately God's will. Thusly one can only reason that both Jesus and God would condemn homosexuality as sinful, and Paul was merely conveying such sentiment.

Paul was not a disciple and did not follow Jesus till after his death. A lot of what Paul taught had nothing to do with Jesus or what he said.

In the gospels, even Luke and Thomas, Jesus did not speak about homosexuality

He did speak about loving thy brother. If we are all brothers, why the hate or condemnation of others?

Hate is a greater sin than love.

 

[aris2chat]

The debate of human rights for gays is not about sexual abuse or rape, it is about two people of the same sex falling in love and sharing their lives.
It is not about sin, but about people at fall in love.
Why is this so hateful to others? What are they so afraid of? They don't have a plague that is contagious. They are not proselytizing a religion. They are not forcing others to join in their bedroom activities. They just want not to be condemned or abuse because of who they are genetically attracted to.

 

[Andylusion]

I have co-workers where I work now. Two in fact, that are gay. And, we get along fine.

See? People can get along! What a concept, right?

Part of the Christian faith.

"If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone."
Romans 12:18

 

[TemplarKormac]

Paul was not a disciple and did not follow Jesus till after his death. A lot of what Paul taught had nothing to do with Jesus or what he said.

That's the thing, he still followed Jesus. Jesus appeared to him (as Saul) on his way to Damascus. Paul the Apostle was originally Saul of Tarsus, who made it his then life's work to persecute and kill Christians. In Acts, Jesus appeared to Saul on the road to Demascus, and in so doing blinded him for three days, asking "why dost thou persecutest me?" At that point, his conversion to Christianity had been set in motion. For three days he sat in deep meditation, after a visit from the Christian disciple Ananias, he recovered his eyesight and began to preach Jesus' gospel. Jesus hand picked Paul to be one of the most ardent messengers of the gospel. What he was transcended the role of a simple disciple, he effectuated the the rise of the Christian faith throughout the ancient world, and secured its dominance as one of the largest religions on the planet.

Paul is one of the most well known figures in Christianity, aside from Jesus.

So, what he wrote was the actual will of God, and thus reflected the sentiments of Jesus himself. You really don't know much about the Bible do you?

 

[TemplarKormac]

In the gospels, even Luke and Thomas, Jesus did not speak about homosexuality

There's a meme you keep repeating. Jesus doesn't have to say it himself. There were reasons he had disciples and apostles, they were there to convey his will, yes, even Paul. Paul didn't have to be a disciple to be a key instrument of God's will.

Just because Paul was not a disciple doesn't mean you get to sit there and say "what he said had nothing to do with Jesus."

What a colossal display of biblical ignorance.

 

[Pogo]

Paul was not a disciple and did not follow Jesus till after his death. A lot of what Paul taught had nothing to do with Jesus or what he said.

That's the thing, he still followed Jesus. Jesus appeared to him (as Saul) on his way to Damascus. Paul the Apostle was originally Saul of Tarsus, who made it his then life's work to persecute and kill Christians. In Acts, Jesus appeared to Saul on the road to Demascus, and in so doing blinded him for three days, asking "why dost thou persecutest me?" At that point, his conversion to Christianity had been set in motion. For three days he sat in deep meditation, after a visit from the Christian disciple Ananias, he recovered his eyesight and began to preach Jesus' gospel. Jesus hand picked Paul to be one of the most ardent messengers of the gospel. What he was transcended the role of an of a simple disciple, he effectuated the the rise of the Christian faith throughout the ancient world, and secured its dominance as one of the largest religions on the planet.

Paul is one of the most well known figures in Christianity, aside from Jesus.

So, what he wrote was the actual will of God, and thus reflected the sentiments of Jesus himself. You really don't know much about the Bible do you?

No -- he wrote a bunch of babble and claimed it was the actual will of God. That's easy. Hell, I could claim that with this post.
And you can too. Talk is cheap.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Hate is a greater sin than love.

And you are more deluded than I thought.

An old aphorism I once heard:

"Hell is full of good meanings, but heaven is full of good works."

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

That OP desperately needs a nutgraph.