TN: Miscarriage will be murder

[Liability]

The wording is too loose. I've had a miscarriage. My daughter has had a miscarriage. So - what? We'd be in deep serious? Because we 'might' have done something to harm the fetus?

The wording is actually fairly specific. It talks of deliberate acts and appears to contemplate an assault on a woman by some criminal that causes the victim to miscarry.

 

[AnonymousIV]

Add TN HB 3517 to the list.

The Tennessee House last week voted 80-18 to make miscarriage — or the killing of any fertilized egg — murder. Last night, the Tennessee Senate passed by a 28-2 margin a companion version of the bill. The bill specifically includes all embryos “at any state of gestation in utero.” Tennessee’s Republican Governor Bill Haslam has not indicated if he will sign the bill.

To be clear, this bill goes further than covering, say, a violent attacker harming an expectant mother who then, unfortunately, miscarries. This bill, House Bill 3517 and the Senate’s companion, makes anyone’s actions that presumably cause a miscarriage murder. Opponents of the bill question how law enforcement would actually enforce this law or determine if someone’s action was a direct cause of a miscarriage.

Tennessee: Miscarriage Will Be Murder — Legislature Passes Embryo Bill | The New Civil Rights Movement

so... you're OK with someone repeatedly punching a pregnant woman in the stomach and causing a miscarriage?

I'm anxious to see if Governor Haslem signs the bill. Also I'm anxious to see how the courts might interrupt the law. The right screaming for people to be put to death for abortion. Does the punishment fit the crime? Thank-god we have the judicial system we do.

 

[Liability]

Just to be clear. Here is the TN 1st degree murder law:

39-13-202. First degree murder.

(a) First degree murder is:

(1) A premeditated and intentional killing of another;

(2) A killing of another committed in the perpetration of or attempt to perpetrate any first degree murder, act of terrorism, arson, rape, robbery, burglary, theft, kidnapping, aggravated child abuse, aggravated child neglect, rape of a child, aggravated rape of a child or aircraft piracy; or

(3) A killing of another committed as the result of the unlawful throwing, placing or discharging of a destructive device or bomb.

(b) No culpable mental state is required for conviction under subdivision (a)(2) or (a)(3), except the intent to commit the enumerated offenses or acts in those subdivisions.

* * * *

THE NEW law (not yet signed into law by the Governor, apparently) reads in pertinent part:

BE IT ENACTED BY THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF THE STATE OF TENNESSEE:
SECTION 1. Tennessee Code Annotated, Section 39-13-214, is amended by deleting
subsection (a) in its entirety and substituting in its place the following:
(a) For the purposes of this part, "another" and "another person" include a human
embryo or fetus at any stage of gestation in utero, when any such term refers to the
victim of any act made criminal by this part, and when at the time of the criminal act the
victim was pregnant.
* * * *

See, Bill Text: TN House Bill 3517 - 107th General Assembly | LegiScan

39-13-202 is directly impacted by the new law, Tennessee Code Annotated, Section 39-13-214, is amended by deleting subsection (a) in its entirety and substituting in its place the language quoted above.

The section which would be changed has read (and will continue to read as follows until/unless the Governor signs it and the date for its effectiveness then arrives):

2010 Tennessee Code
Title 39 - Criminal Offenses
Chapter 13 - Offenses Against Person
Part 2 - Criminal Homicide
39-13-214 - Viable fetus as victim.


39-13-214. Viable fetus as victim.

(a) For purposes of this part, “another” and “another person” include a viable fetus of a human being, when any such term refers to the victim of any act made criminal by the provisions of this part.

39-13-214 - Viable fetus as victim. :: 2010 Tennessee Code :: US Codes and Statutes :: US Law :: Justia

Taken together, then, the law is pretty clear. It amends a criminal (murder 1st degree) statute to now explicitly cover a viable fetus as a human being in relation to criminal acts committed against a pregnant woman which cause the viable fetus to be miscarried.

 

[Katzndogz]

Once again democrats demonstrate that they support the rights of a violent criminal over the rights of an innocent victim. Intentionally attacking woman with the intent to cause a miscarriage is a personal matter between the woman and her doctor, ONLY in the minds of democrats. One of the reasons that make them despicable.

 

[buckeye45_73]

The wording is too loose. I've had a miscarriage. My daughter has had a miscarriage. So - what? We'd be in deep serious? Because we 'might' have done something to harm the fetus?

I think the word is intent. If you attack a women and kill her and she was pregnant, chalk two on the scoreboard. I love how liberal women are pro choice, but only on abortion, these people then want kids off family farms, they want the govenment to control healthcare, your home, your kids, it's amazing how not pro choice these people are.

 

[AnonymousIV]

The wording is too loose. I've had a miscarriage. My daughter has had a miscarriage. So - what? We'd be in deep serious? Because we 'might' have done something to harm the fetus?

I think the word is intent. If you attack a women and kill her and she was pregnant, chalk two on the scoreboard. I love how liberal women are pro choice, but only on abortion, these people then want kids off family farms, they want the govenment to control healthcare, your home, your kids, it's amazing how not pro choice these people are.

I think Pro-Choice is a bad depiction of what I think, I think I'm Pro-Self, after my own self interests. I always thought the control your home, your kids, was being pushed, on the left, by the right.
By the way are you a veteran?

 

[buckeye45_73]

The wording is too loose. I've had a miscarriage. My daughter has had a miscarriage. So - what? We'd be in deep serious? Because we 'might' have done something to harm the fetus?

I think the word is intent. If you attack a women and kill her and she was pregnant, chalk two on the scoreboard. I love how liberal women are pro choice, but only on abortion, these people then want kids off family farms, they want the govenment to control healthcare, your home, your kids, it's amazing how not pro choice these people are.

I think Pro-Choice is a bad depiction of what I think, I think I'm Pro-Self, after my own self interests. I always thought the control your home, your kids, was being pushed, on the left, by the right.
By the way are you a veteran?

nope, I'm not a veteran. The left is the ones that want to control every aspect of us. They tell us how to raise kids (though idiots like Dr Spock) and they want to tell us what we can do with our homes and now even farms, it's amazing how hypocritical these people are.

 

[The Infidel]

I think the word is intent. If you attack a women and kill her and she was pregnant, chalk two on the scoreboard. I love how liberal women are pro choice, but only on abortion, these people then want kids off family farms, they want the govenment to control healthcare, your home, your kids, it's amazing how not pro choice these people are.

I think Pro-Choice is a bad depiction of what I think, I think I'm Pro-Self, after my own self interests. I always thought the control your home, your kids, was being pushed, on the left, by the right.
By the way are you a veteran?

nope, I'm not a veteran. The left is the ones that want to control every aspect of us. They tell us how to raise kids (though idiots like Dr Spock) and they want to tell us what we can do with our homes and now even farms, it's amazing how hypocritical these people are.

 

[Newby]

Add TN HB 3517 to the list.



Tennessee: Miscarriage Will Be Murder — Legislature Passes Embryo Bill | The New Civil Rights Movement

Whats so new about this? There have been cases in the past where A woman is Pregnant and Murdered and the Person who did it is Charged with 2 Murders.

Why is it so hard for some people to get it? Even if you are for Abortion. If You walk up to a chick who is pregnant and punch her so hard in the Stomach she miscarries you just stopped a Life, Period.

But does our gov't see the fetus as a life.

I am pro life... I say it is murder, but if they can convict someone for killing the baby in the moms womb in that way, why not the mom and doctor at an abortion clinic?

Basically, what this implies is that it's only a life if the Mother deems it to be a life. How nice is that?

 

[whitehall]

First of all the bill is like a million other bills unless it is signed into law by the governor. As usual the article is an opinion or op-ed rather than news containing a series of scenarios imagined by the author.

 

[BDBoop]

The wording is too loose. I've had a miscarriage. My daughter has had a miscarriage. So - what? We'd be in deep serious? Because we 'might' have done something to harm the fetus?

I think the word is intent. If you attack a women and kill her and she was pregnant, chalk two on the scoreboard. I love how liberal women are pro choice, but only on abortion, these people then want kids off family farms, they want the govenment to control healthcare, your home, your kids, it's amazing how not pro choice these people are.

But what party is the one actually signing bill after bill after bill after bill into LAW regarding women's reproductive rights.

Which party is that, again.

 

[BDBoop]

First of all the bill is like a million other bills unless it is signed into law by the governor. As usual the article is an opinion or op-ed rather than news containing a series of scenarios imagined by the author.

Based on the bill. I know you don't care unless it's posted on Faux News or World Nut Daily, but the article is based on the bill.

And? Really, you want to go there? "Like a million other bills" so just calm down, lil missy. It's not like it actually became law!" What the hell are they doing in there? They sure as shit aren't working to make their State a better place! Where are all the jobs, like the Tea Party ran on?

 

[Katzndogz]

It isn't the mother's reproductive rights this time, it's the rights of a killer. Do women's reproductive rights to end a pregnancy extend to a murderer who intentionally causes a miscarriage? Or more pertinent, does a woman have a right to be pregnant at all?

 

[Vidi]

People should never value themselves about all else. That's called narcissism, and it's a mental illness. When you value yourself above all others, you're a sociopath.

So you're an altruist?

 

[Papageorgio]

The wording is too loose. I've had a miscarriage. My daughter has had a miscarriage. So - what? We'd be in deep serious? Because we 'might' have done something to harm the fetus?

That is not what the bill said, it is protecting the woman and her choice on having a child. You cause harm to the mother whose choice is to have the child, and the child dies, then because the mother chose to have have the child, then it is considered a life and is treated as such by the law.

 

[koshergrl]

People should never value themselves about all else. That's called narcissism, and it's a mental illness. When you value yourself above all others, you're a sociopath.

So you're an altruist?

No, I'm a non-narcissist, non-mentally ill, non-sociopath.

 

[Unkotare]

Add TN HB 3517 to the list.

The Tennessee House last week voted 80-18 to make miscarriage — or the killing of any fertilized egg — murder. Last night, the Tennessee Senate passed by a 28-2 margin a companion version of the bill. The bill specifically includes all embryos “at any state of gestation in utero.” Tennessee’s Republican Governor Bill Haslam has not indicated if he will sign the bill.

To be clear, this bill goes further than covering, say, a violent attacker harming an expectant mother who then, unfortunately, miscarries. This bill, House Bill 3517 and the Senate’s companion, makes anyone’s actions that presumably cause a miscarriage murder. Opponents of the bill question how law enforcement would actually enforce this law or determine if someone’s action was a direct cause of a miscarriage.

Tennessee: Miscarriage Will Be Murder — Legislature Passes Embryo Bill | The New Civil Rights Movement

If a bartender keeps serving a clearly intoxicated customer all night long and that customer then goes out and kills someone in a drunk driving incident, do you think the bartender and the owner of the bar are liable?

 

[koshergrl]

The wording is too loose. I've had a miscarriage. My daughter has had a miscarriage. So - what? We'd be in deep serious? Because we 'might' have done something to harm the fetus?

I think the word is intent. If you attack a women and kill her and she was pregnant, chalk two on the scoreboard. I love how liberal women are pro choice, but only on abortion, these people then want kids off family farms, they want the govenment to control healthcare, your home, your kids, it's amazing how not pro choice these people are.

But what party is the one actually signing bill after bill after bill after bill into LAW regarding women's reproductive rights.

Which party is that, again.

Murder isn't a reproductive right.

 

[Katzndogz]

The wording is too loose. I've had a miscarriage. My daughter has had a miscarriage. So - what? We'd be in deep serious? Because we 'might' have done something to harm the fetus?

That is not what the bill said, it is protecting the woman and her choice on having a child. You cause harm to the mother whose choice is to have the child, and the child dies, then because the mother chose to have have the child, then it is considered a life and is treated as such by the law.

You know this makes no sense don't you?

 

[Vidi]

Just to be clear. Here is the TN 1st degree murder law:

39-13-202. First degree murder.

(a) First degree murder is:

(1) A premeditated and intentional killing of another;

(2) A killing of another committed in the perpetration of or attempt to perpetrate any first degree murder, act of terrorism, arson, rape, robbery, burglary, theft, kidnapping, aggravated child abuse, aggravated child neglect, rape of a child, aggravated rape of a child or aircraft piracy; or

(3) A killing of another committed as the result of the unlawful throwing, placing or discharging of a destructive device or bomb.

(b) No culpable mental state is required for conviction under subdivision (a)(2) or (a)(3), except the intent to commit the enumerated offenses or acts in those subdivisions.

* * * *

THE NEW law (not yet signed into law by the Governor, apparently) reads in pertinent part:

BE IT ENACTED BY THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF THE STATE OF TENNESSEE:
SECTION 1. Tennessee Code Annotated, Section 39-13-214, is amended by deleting
subsection (a) in its entirety and substituting in its place the following:
(a) For the purposes of this part, "another" and "another person" include a human
embryo or fetus at any stage of gestation in utero, when any such term refers to the
victim of any act made criminal by this part, and when at the time of the criminal act the
victim was pregnant.
* * * *

See, Bill Text: TN House Bill 3517 - 107th General Assembly | LegiScan

39-13-202 is directly impacted by the new law, Tennessee Code Annotated, Section 39-13-214, is amended by deleting subsection (a) in its entirety and substituting in its place the language quoted above.

The section which would be changed has read (and will continue to read as follows until/unless the Governor signs it and the date for its effectiveness then arrives):

2010 Tennessee Code
Title 39 - Criminal Offenses
Chapter 13 - Offenses Against Person
Part 2 - Criminal Homicide
39-13-214 - Viable fetus as victim.


39-13-214. Viable fetus as victim.

(a) For purposes of this part, “another” and “another person” include a viable fetus of a human being, when any such term refers to the victim of any act made criminal by the provisions of this part.

39-13-214 - Viable fetus as victim. :: 2010 Tennessee Code :: US Codes and Statutes :: US Law :: Justia

Taken together, then, the law is pretty clear. It amends a criminal (murder 1st degree) statute to now explicitly cover a viable fetus as a human being in relation to criminal acts committed against a pregnant woman which cause the viable fetus to be miscarried.

Thank you.

Seeing the legislation, there is a clear distinction.

A criminal act must be committed for the fetus to be considered life and therefore a human being. Provided that a doctor performed abortion is legal, a doctor aborted fetus would not be considered a human being.

This legislation allows for the prosecution of criminals without changing the rights of a woman to choose. I can foresee a year or two down the road there will be some weird application of this law that will cause a national stir, but we can cross that bridge when we come to it.

That being said, I still feel that life in one instance but not another is a contradiction.


Anyone care to explain the distinction? ( without the partisan bullshit.)