The Neocons Were Right, After All

[jimnyc]

Sorry, Wade, not one damn bit of proof there. It's all a bunch of theories, and again zero substance. Do you have any direct and irrefutable proof that Bush/Cheney or anyone in the administration is currently profiting or is guaranteed profits? Please cite reputable source (BTW - an angelfire site is not what I would consider reputable).

I'll be waiting (probably for quite some time as conspiracy theorists rarely. if ever, provide any evidence).

 

[wade]

Jimmy, you're just a blind man. There's pleanty of proof here, you just don't want to see it so you refuse to see it. But it's right in front of your face - there is such a huge conflict of interest going on with the revolving door policies of the Bush Administration and the private sector profiteers at the expense of the American public that they cannot be trusted to look out for our interests.

There is no way you could even have read the articles (6 minutes between my post and yours) in the time it took you to post! LOL - you post your bull shit by reflex.

Wade.

 

[jimnyc]

Jimmy, you're just a blind man. There's pleanty of proof here, you just don't want to see it so you refuse to see it. But it's right in front of your face - there is such a huge conflict of interest going on with the revolving door policies of the Bush Administration and the private sector profiteers at the expense of the American public that they cannot be trusted to look out for our interests.

There is no way you could even have read the articles in the time it took you to post! LOL - you post your bull shit by reflex.

Wade.

Plenty of proof? Then list them here one by one, direct from the articles. I don't want to read your theories over and over again, JUST POST THE IRREFUTABLE PROOF OF THEIR PROFITS. Can you do that, Wade, or is this task too tough?

I read 2 of the articles. I skipped over the angelfire dogshit and I had already read the 4 pack of theories.

I'll ask again, and to make it easier for all of this to put it to an end - do it like this. List (numbered) the irrefutable proof. Quote the reputable articles and link directly to where you see this that I am apparently blind to. Theories won't cut it. Show me just how blind I am AND SHOW US THE IRREFUTABLE EVIDENCE.

I'll ask again, is this too tough for you?

 

[NightTrain]

disinfopedia and Britons4peace are hardly considered reputuable sources.

A reputable source would be something like an AP affiliate. With the left leaning bias of most reporters, you should have no problem whatsoever in backing up your conspiracy claims with a legitimate site.

We've all heard the conspiracy theorists say hundreds of times the same thing you do. Every one of them couldn't back it up with legit proof.

That's why your claims are not taken very seriously, your views are hardly original and lack the same backup as all of the others in the Tinfoil Brigade.

 

[wade]

The info is correct. Many sources provide the same data.

You don't like the info so you attack the credibilty of the source, but this is all public info and the references are given. Why don't you admit the truth of the matter - that Bush cronies are making a fortune off the war in Iraq, the Bush environmental policies, and the Bush medical policies?

Meet the Carlyle Group

Are you disputing that G.H.Bush Sr is making a mint as part of he Carlyle group, and that G.W.Bush stands to inherit the lions share of this loot, and therefore Bush's policies are putting a fortune into his own pocket? Why do you think Bush wants to get rid of the inheritance tax so badly? The answers simple - it'll be worth hundreds of millions of dollars to him!

I know you'd rather pretend it's not true and avoid actually discussing the issue, but that just makes you non-credible.

Wade.

 

[Annie]

The info is correct. Many sources provide the same data.

You don't like the info so you attack the credibilty of the source, but this is all public info and the references are given. Why don't you admit the truth of the matter - that Bush cronies are making a fortune off the war in Iraq, the Bush environmental policies, and the Bush medical policies?

Meet the Carlyle Group

Are you disputing that G.H.Bush Sr is making a mint as part of he Carlyle group, and that G.W.Bush stands to inherit the lions share of this loot, and therefore Bush's policies are putting a fortune into his own pocket? Why do you think Bush wants to get rid of the inheritance tax so badly? The answers simple - it'll be worth hundreds of millions of dollars to him!

I know you'd rather pretend it's not true and avoid actually discussing the issue, but that just makes you non-credible.

Wade.

Again with Angelfire. thought jim made that clear? Give us a break! We don't send you to Rush's site...

 

[William Joyce]

Sigh. The Carlyle Group intrigues all amount to very little... just left-wing distractions from what's really going on. It's appealing for Michael Moore and friends because there is surface plausibility to someone doing something "just for profit." And while I don't work up soaking sweats trying to refute all that stuff, it's all just conspiracy fantasy for the smelly white guys with dreadlocks who've been in grad school way too long.

The driving reason we went to war was because the neocons, most of whom are Jewish, sought to advance Israel's interests in the middle east by attacking Iraq. The are the but-for of the war. Without their steadfast and relentless pursuit of the issue, it NEVER would have happened. Just read Pat Buchanan's "Whose War?" cover story in The American Conservative. It's all set forth.

Or, if you don't want to read anything by (gasp!) an actual conservative, read "A Clean Break," which was written by the neocons themselves.

Here:

http://www.israeleconomy.org/strat1.htm

 

[NightTrain]

The info is correct. Many sources provide the same data.

That's Fan-Fucking-Tastic! Now get some legitimate info from a reputable source.

Why the reluctance? We already know why. You can't provide it! This tired old bullshit has been run before, and every one of you conspiracy nuts can't provide legit info!

Funny, really, in a sad sort of way.

 

[wade]

LOL - you know damn well that AP news articles, which is what you requested, cost $ and cannot be linked. The same is true of all the major newspapers - or they have no search capability. The Washington post for instance, will return almost the same results a wide variety of different seach criteria - it seems it does not really use the input text for the search.

So you are trying to rig the system and exclude all contrary points of view by labeling the sources as not credible and defining "credible" sources which cannot be referenced.

The point still stands. Bush Sr. is making hundreds of millions of $ on the way the war on terror, particularly the war in Iraq, is being waged. And Pres. Bush stands to inherit this money, so he is in effect putting huge profits right into his own pocket. You cannot deny this, so you use every method available to avoid the issue.

Wade.

 

[NightTrain]

Is that a fact?

How odd, I myself have linked and posted hundreds of AP news articles. If not thousands of them. For free.

Do you think it's because there are no AP news articles supporting your theories because no such articles exist in legitimate news services?

Is that why you're forced to post tidbits from Angelfire, commondreams and workingforchange?

Yep. I think so.

 

[onedomino]

Sigh. The Carlyle Group intrigues all amount to very little... just left-wing distractions from what's really going on. It's appealing for Michael Moore and friends because there is surface plausibility to someone doing something "just for profit." And while I don't work up soaking sweats trying to refute all that stuff, it's all just conspiracy fantasy for the smelly white guys with dreadlocks who've been in grad school way too long.

The driving reason we went to war was because the neocons, most of whom are Jewish, sought to advance Israel's interests in the middle east by attacking Iraq. The are the but-for of the war. Without their steadfast and relentless pursuit of the issue, it NEVER would have happened. Just read Pat Buchanan's "Whose War?" cover story in The American Conservative. It's all set forth.

Or, if you don't want to read anything by (gasp!) an actual conservative, read "A Clean Break," which was written by the neocons themselves.

Here:

http://www.israeleconomy.org/strat1.htm

William, when you are not bashing Blacks and Latinos, the putrid smell of your anti-Semitic remarks poison discussion on this board. Why don't you move to France or Germany where neo-Nazism is on the rise. You would fit right in.

 

[Avatar4321]

LOL - you know damn well that AP news articles, which is what you requested, cost $ and cannot be linked. The same is true of all the major newspapers - or they have no search capability. The Washington post for instance, will return almost the same results a wide variety of different seach criteria - it seems it does not really use the input text for the search.

So you are trying to rig the system and exclude all contrary points of view by labeling the sources as not credible and defining "credible" sources which cannot be referenced.

The point still stands. Bush Sr. is making hundreds of millions of $ on the way the war on terror, particularly the war in Iraq, is being waged. And Pres. Bush stands to inherit this money, so he is in effect putting huge profits right into his own pocket. You cannot deny this, so you use every method available to avoid the issue.

Wade.

I deny it. You have no evidence. Have yet to prove any of your assertions. I deny it. Thus we see you have lied because i can and just have denied it. have a nice day.

 

[wade]

Is that a fact?

How odd, I myself have linked and posted hundreds of AP news articles. If not thousands of them. For free.

Do you think it's because there are no AP news articles supporting your theories because no such articles exist in legitimate news services?

Is that why you're forced to post tidbits from Angelfire, commondreams and workingforchange?

Yep. I think so.

You can find recent AP articles, but you cannot access archives or search them. So you can come accross them via searches, but not by going to the AP website and doing a search. Try it for yourself:

http://hosted.ap.org

I'd pay for access to the archives, but I'd still not be able to post the contents here (legally) under the contract they require.

Still refusing to face the issue I see. Again, are you denying that Pres. Bush stands to profit greatly through the war on Iraq? Why do you make such a big deal about where the facts come from, but refuse to argue the facts themselvs? Could it be you know there is no way to defend the corrupt policies of your heros? I think so!

Here's a quote from a conservative source:

....Remember, though, with the George W. Bush gang, there is no such thing as a conflict of interest.

Just ask Richard Perle. He's a member and former chairman of the Defense Policy Board, a group that meets regularly and advises top Pentagon officials.

In August, Perle co-authored an op-ed piece in the Wall Street Journal, giving glowing praise to a deal in which the Air Force would lease 100 aircraft refueling tankers from Boeing. Critics howled that the plan to spend $20 billion to refit the 767s for military purposes was unnecessary and ridiculously costly.

Several weeks ago, I wrote about the stench of the deal, and now we learn the Air Force procurement officer who worked on the Boeing proposal was at the same time negotiating an employment contract to go to work for the aircraft manufacturer.

Dareen Druyan did become a Boeing vice president, but when the lid on her self-dealing blew, she and the chief financial officer were fired. Boeing's CEO, Phil Condit, later walked the plank. There should be a criminal investigation, but don't count on John Ashcroft's Justice Department.

Back to Perle. He's known as the intellectual visionary behind the war with Iraq and he used his influence to convince the defense establishment of the wisdom of the pre-emptive attack.

Perle since said the war was "illegal," but what the hell, it's been great fun and profit for all those who didn't actually have to fight and die in the process. It turns out Perle, the mental giant, is a moral pygmy.

The British Financial Times found out this dirty little secret about Perle, the Prince of Darkness. It seems Boeing invested $20 million in the venture capital fund he runs. That's one of the largest stakes in Perle's little enterprise.

But he insists all those millions had no influence on his thinking about Boeing and he is sure the people from Boeing who handed him all that money had nothing to do with the tanker deal.

For Perle and so many Bush associates, government service, public policy, corporate and personal gain are all part of a seamless garment of influence and power. They are looting the treasury for their own enrichment and will continue to do so until the American people realize what's happening.

George W. Bush and his sleazy gang have but one guiding principle that dominates all they do.

They use public power and influence for private gain and will do just about anything to keep the power in order to keep the gain.
http://www.niagarafallsreporter.com/gallagher144.html

The author of the article above now works for - Fox News! Fox is as conservative as it gets.

The true conservatives, like me, aren't at all happy with what is going on. The Bush adminstration is all about entitlements - they just are for the rich not the poor. The one thing they are not, which to me is the most important thing for any Adminstration or Congress, is fiscally responsible. The "Borrow and Spend" policy of this Adminstration is going to bankrupt this nation. But they don't care as they are making fortunes in doing it. They will be rich no matter how bad it gets for the average American, so they will be insolated from the consequenses of thier avarice.

A few more links for you:

http://www.fortune.com/fortune/articles/0,15114,370593,00.html

http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0218/gray.php

Wade.

 

[Comrade]

You can find recent AP articles, but you cannot access archives or search them. So you can come accross them via searches, but not by going to the AP website and doing a search. Try it for yourself:

http://hosted.ap.org

I'd pay for access to the archives, but I'd still not be able to post the contents here (legally) under the contract they require.

http://news.search.yahoo.com/search/news?p=&ei=UTF-8&fr=FP-tab-news-t&cop=mss&tab=5

Still refusing to face the issue I see. Again, are you denying that Pres. Bush stands to profit greatly through the war on Iraq?

"Hmm...", Bush muses, "I'm worth 14 Million today, but if I don't get a second term my future memos and speeches and appearances will be worth peanuts. But as a two-termed president with a war record? Hell that's at least worth 20 million in speeches."

But that would be the shallow money grubbing sort of Bush you want to attribute in your mindset.

And even then Iraq is an no personal money making endevour when it risks his second term. Unless you know how exactly much Bush Sr. is on the take from Carlye via consulting fees due to war in Iraq what else do we have?

Why do you make such a big deal about where the facts come from, but refuse to argue the facts themselvs? Could it be you know there is no way to defend the corrupt policies of your heros? I think so!

"George Bush the Elder has collected "consulting fees" from Carlyle. He won't say how much."

A 'fact'.

The author of the article above now works for - Fox News! Fox is as conservative as it gets.

The true conservatives, like me, aren't at all happy with what is going on.

You, wade, a true conservative?

You previously said:

"And you seem to think that communism is by default totalitarian. It is not, it can even be somewhat democratic."

"Remember, the USA is not really a democracy"

"The main difference in theory between what we call communism and what we call democracy is not "democracy vs. totalitarianism", it is "capitalism vs. socialism".

"Pres. Bush is the biggest lair in American history! He took this country to war in Iraq on the basis of a lie."

You share Moveon.org and Democratic Underground sentiments almost verbatim. Do you need some intervention to see you are a bonified Bush hating leftist extremist? What ever led you to imagine you share any conservative fundamentals?

The Bush adminstration is all about entitlements - they just are for the rich not the poor. The one thing they are not, which to me is the most important thing for any Adminstration or Congress, is fiscally responsible. The "Borrow and Spend" policy of this Adminstration is going to bankrupt this nation. But they don't care as they are making fortunes in doing it. They will be rich no matter how bad it gets for the average American, so they will be insolated from the consequenses of thier avarice.

Like I said, smells like a lefty, looks like a lefty, drools like a lefty, you is a lefty my friend.

A few more links for you:

http://www.fortune.com/fortune/articles/0,15114,370593,00.html

http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0218/gray.php

Wade.

The Village Voice? REAL conservative.

 

[NightTrain]

You can find recent AP articles, but you cannot access archives or search them. So you can come accross them via searches, but not by going to the AP website and doing a search. Try it for yourself:

Okay, let me humor and embarass you. How about some stories about Saddam and WMDs prior to Operation Iraqi Freedom and France's stance?


http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2003-03-17-france-iraq_x.htm
http://www.examiner.com/headlines/default.jsp?story=n.diplomacy.0311w
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/mai...iplomacy.0311wxml=/news/2003/04/27/walq27.xml
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/04/30/iraq/main551632.shtml
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/2845245.stm

It's all available. Just gotta want to find the truth, instead of being content with MoveOn.

I'd pay for access to the archives, but I'd still not be able to post the contents here (legally) under the contract they require.

Nice cop out. I promise I won't turn you in. Since I posted those links, feel free to rat me out. I stand right here and Jimnyc knows my address. Posting a legit news article with proper kudos is legit. Honest Injun.

Still refusing to face the issue I see. Again, are you denying that Pres. Bush stands to profit greatly through the war on Iraq? Why do you make such a big deal about where the facts come from, but refuse to argue the facts themselvs? Could it be you know there is no way to defend the corrupt policies of your heros? I think so!

You cite bogus sites and your logic is flawed. AP news services only, please. Do this and we'll discuss. Bwahahahahahahhahaaa!!!

Here's a quote from a conservative source:


The author of the article above now works for - Fox News! Fox is as conservative as it gets.

The true conservatives, like me, aren't at all happy with what is going on. The Bush adminstration is all about entitlements - they just are for the rich not the poor. The one thing they are not, which to me is the most important thing for any Adminstration or Congress, is fiscally responsible. The "Borrow and Spend" policy of this Adminstration is going to bankrupt this nation. But they don't care as they are making fortunes in doing it. They will be rich no matter how bad it gets for the average American, so they will be insolated from the consequenses of thier avarice.

This idiot isn't conservative at all, thanks for the humor.

A few more links for you:

http://www.fortune.com/fortune/articles/0,15114,370593,00.html

http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0218/gray.php

Wade.

I didn't bother looking. VillageVoice? Bwahahahahahaahhaaa!! I get enough info during the day, don't need to look at fucknuts.com to get propaganda. Thanks for the effort, though. It shows you're on board.

 

[wade]

http://news.search.yahoo.com/search/news?p=&ei=UTF-8&fr=FP-tab-news-t&cop=mss&tab=5

This url returns nothing but the Yahoo search engine

"Hmm...", Bush muses, "I'm worth 14 Million today, but if I don't get a second term my future memos and speeches and appearances will be worth peanuts. But as a two-termed president with a war record? Hell that's at least worth 20 million in speeches."

But that would be the shallow money grubbing sort of Bush you want to attribute in your mindset.

You think small. I'm saying Bush stands to profit to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars over the course of this war.

And even then Iraq is an no personal money making endevour when it risks his second term. Unless you know how exactly much Bush Sr. is on the take from Carlye via consulting fees due to war in Iraq what else do we have?

"George Bush the Elder has collected "consulting fees" from Carlyle. He won't say how much."

A 'fact'.

Yes, it is a fact Bush Sr. will not disclose the fees or stock he's aquired and is aquiring. If he did, his son would have no chance to be re-elected.

You, wade, a true conservative?

You are totally mis-reading the sentance. I said the "true conservatives, like me,....", not "the true conservatives like me". I guess your reading skills need improvement, in the first case, it means that I am in accord with the true conservatives, in the latter case it would mean I was a true conservative. The comma makes all the difference.

You previously said:

....What ever led you to imagine you share any conservative fundamentals?

I'm a fiscal conservative first and formost Comrade. I believe that more than anything else the economy must be protected. This means the goverment cannot engage in excessive protracted deficit spending for any reason, as the long term costs always far outweigh the short term benifits. I don't support such spending for any purpose, be it for a liberal or conservative cause.

Anyone who does support such spending is not really a conservative, they are a neoconservative, which means they don't really understand, or worse don't care, about how the economy works or what the consequences of high deficits and high debt loading are.

Beyond that, I believe that nobody in America should be malnurished or freeze to death, and nobody in america should be ill or maimed because they cannot afford basic medical care or medicines.

I also believe the current medical system, which denies reasonable health care to a huge segment of our population, but then puts the costs of end-of-life care upon the tax payer, is absolutey stupid. Many children and young adults in this country suffer needlessly through their entire lives for want of decent care when they need it. But then if they can reach sufficient age, more money than would have been required to care for them when they really needed it, by many fold, will be spent to sustain them through the least productive and enjoyable part of their life - their death. As the baby-boomers become seniors, this simply must change.

I also believe we should be trying to make our world a utopia, but to do this we need to be smart and not spend ourselves into bankruptcy or destroy the ecology to satiate the greed of the very few.

Wade.

 

[Annie]

This url returns nothing but the Yahoo search engine



You think small. I'm saying Bush stands to profit to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars over the course of this war.



Yes, it is a fact Bush Sr. will not disclose the fees or stock he's aquired and is aquiring. If he did, his son would have no chance to be re-elected.



You are totally mis-reading the sentance. I said the "true conservatives, like me,....", not "the true conservatives like me". I guess your reading skills need improvement, in the first case, it means that I am in accord with the true conservatives, in the latter case it would mean I was a true conservative. The comma makes all the difference.




I'm a fiscal conservative first and formost Comrade. I believe that more than anything else the economy must be protected. This means the goverment cannot engage in excessive protracted deficit spending for any reason, as the long term costs always far outweigh the short term benifits. I don't support such spending for any purpose, be it for a liberal or conservative cause.

Anyone who does support such spending is not really a conservative, they are a neoconservative, which means they don't really understand, or worse don't care, about how the economy works or what the consequences of high deficits and high debt loading are.

Beyond that, I believe that nobody in America should be malnurished or freeze to death, and nobody in america should be ill or maimed because they cannot afford basic medical care or medicines.

I also believe the current medical system, which denies reasonable health care to a huge segment of our population, but then puts the costs of end-of-life care upon the tax payer, is absolutey stupid. Many children and young adults in this country suffer needlessly through their entire lives for want of decent care when they need it. But then if they can reach sufficient age, more money than would have been required to care for them when they really needed it, by many fold, will be spent to sustain them through the least productive and enjoyable part of their life - their death. As the baby-boomers become seniors, this simply must change.

I also believe we should be trying to make our world a utopia, but to do this we need to be smart and not spend ourselves into bankruptcy or destroy the ecology to satiate the greed of the very few.

Wade.

Wade, the reason for the yahoo search engine, was a not so subtle hint to use it, instead of the 'pay for ap articles' whine you gave. You should try it, since the above truly needs some backing-which everyone has told you.

Your 'beliefs' mean nothing if not backed up. That's all your giving to us, 'your thinking' which apparently stays at the affective mode, never maturing into something that could change anything...

 

[wade]

Okay, let me humor and embarass you. How about some stories about Saddam and WMDs prior to Operation Iraqi Freedom and France's stance?


http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2003-03-17-france-iraq_x.htm
http://www.examiner.com/headlines/default.jsp?story=n.diplomacy.0311w
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/mai...iplomacy.0311wxml=/news/2003/04/27/walq27.xml
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/04/30/iraq/main551632.shtml
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/2845245.stm

It's all available. Just gotta want to find the truth, instead of being content with MoveOn.

You've got to be kidding. Just because you can find some articles from a chosen topic does not mean you can find articles on any topic. France is a popular target since the war began, so there are lots of recent articles on it. Bush however, is generally not a popular target because of the war status of the nation, so the articles on the Carlyle group are older and not easily available. BTW: I originally saw the story on the Bush revolving door on PBS.

Nice cop out. I promise I won't turn you in. Since I posted those links, feel free to rat me out. I stand right here and Jimnyc knows my address. Posting a legit news article with proper kudos is legit. Honest Injun.

Post something from the AP archives, not the current AP stories caried on newspaper websites.

Wade.

 

[Annie]

You've got to be kidding. Just because you can find some articles from a chosen topic does not mean you can find articles on any topic. France is a popular target since the war began, so there are lots of recent articles on it. Bush however, is generally not a popular target because of the war status of the nation, so the articles on the Carlyle group are older and not easily available. BTW: I originally saw the story on the Bush revolving door on PBS.



Post something from the AP archives, not the current AP stories caried on newspaper websites.

Wade.

How to use search engines: http://www.monash.com/spidap4.html#meta

 

[wade]

Wade, the reason for the yahoo search engine, was a not so subtle hint to use it, instead of the 'pay for ap articles' whine you gave. You should try it, since the above truly needs some backing-which everyone has told you.

Your 'beliefs' mean nothing if not backed up. That's all your giving to us, 'your thinking' which apparently stays at the affective mode, never maturing into something that could change anything...

Kathianne, I use google and search.com, extensively.

When using search engines and typing in "Bush revolving door", I get 36,900 on google and 126,000 hits on yahoo. Search.com works differently so I have no idea how many hits it is getting, but it must be at least the sum of those two.

The bottom line is that the info itself is good, but you don't like the source of the figures, so you quibble about the source rather than getting into the heart of the topic itself, profiteering by the Bush Administration.

I'll be laughing at the right wingers on this board in less than 2 years, because the economy is going down the toilet and there will be no denying that. But it will not be a happy laugh. Many are going to suffer very badly.

Wade.