The Neocons Were Right, After All

[NightTrain]

Commondreams?

Let's hear the other shoe drop, surely you've got a few gems from MoveOn too?

And then the Coup de Grace with some Bart Cop!

 

[wade]

Are you disputing the numbers in the article? I don't goto moveon.org or any other specific political agenda site. I search the web for articles with data in them, and try to find one that presents a lot of data in as few a pages as possible. In this case I think I searched on "Halliburton Iraq gasoline", do that search for yourself there are pleanty of articles about it from lots of sources.

I knew what I was looking for, it was on the news about a year ago.

Wade.

 

[onedomino]

And Bush cronies will be doing the construction and other no-bid jobs and pocketing billions. Read for yourself:

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/1210-07.htm

It's outragous. And they make the claim that part of this is because of the security costs - but the US army provides security at no cost to Halliburton. The lost cargo cost in no way justifies the gouging that is going on.

You really do not see how this war is being used to pad the pockets of the Bush cronies? Wake up!

Wade.

I am fully awake, thank you.

Since your objections to my original post on this topic

wade: "This all assumes that oil production is expected to remain at a mere 3 million barrels per day. The expectation would be something on the order of 2 to 3 times that level, and probably outside the OPEC alliance quotas, driving down the price of oil sharply.

But really you miss the point. On the one hand you are talking about the cost of the war vs. the value of the oil, and saying "it's a bad deal". And yes, it is, for the American people. But for the oil barons who will be involved in getting that oil out of the ground and putting it on the market, it will be a bonanza - and who is that??? Halliburton and other Bush cronies. What do they care if the real costs to the American public amount to $123 per barrel as you have outlined? As long as they are going to pocket billions, it's a "good deal".

As I've said all along, the Iraq war is a huge wealth transfer from the American public to the select few."

were refuted:

onedomino: "So you think the invasion of Iraq was a secret plan to make a few companies and individuals rich? That is paranoid and not supported by any facts. Iraqi oil will be sold at market prices and will make individuals and companies no more rich than oil from any other source. Of course they are not the "select few." The oil companies are owned by millions of stockholders throughout the world. Are you a member of a pension fund or 401K? If so, then you own stock in oil companies. Would you have preferred that Saddam and his murderous pals obtain the oil money to pay homicide bombers and purchase weapons?

The Iraqi oil industry is in an extreme state of disrepair and increased production will require years of construction and billions in investment. In 2003, it was estimated that it would be 2010 before Iraqi oil production could be ramped up by 6 million barrels per day. Due to terrorist attacks that date will probably extend beyond 2010. http://www.brookings.edu/fp/saban/luftmemo20040617.htm"

you have changed topics to the US Army protecting Halliburton? You think the America Army is Halliburton’s private security force? On the contrary, the US Army is trying to provide security throughout Iraq for every non-terrorist organization. You object to Halliburton overcharging for fuel? So does everyone else. The US Army audit addressing the situation has corrected the overcharges. Due to being refuted, you have changed topics from making money on oil exports to making money on construction contracts. Beyond Halliburton, name one other US company capable of mobilizing the resources necessary to perform construction in Iraq in the immediate aftermath of the invasion. If you think such companies exist, then name them. The largest US construction companies include Peter Kiewit, Washington Construction, Perini Construction, Bechtel, etc. http://www.forbes.com/lists/results.jhtml?passListId=21&passYear=2002&passListType=Company&searchParameter1=unset&searchParameter2=unset&resultsHowMany=25&resultsSortProperties=%2Bstringfield5%2C%2Bnumberfield1&resultsSortCategoryName=industry&fromColumnClick=&bktDisplayField=&bktDisplayFieldLength=&category1=category&category2=category&passKeyword=&resultsStart=76 None of these companies have international experience integrating construction and logistic supply in combat conditions as does Halliburton. Again, if you think such competitors to Halliburton do exist, then name them. Provide links to where they have complained about not being able to bid on desired contracts in Iraq.

 

[wade]

Onedomino,

You are missing the point. A large part of what this war is about is huge profits for the "right" people, mostly at taxpayer expense. We pay $10 billion and $1 billion goes into those pockets. It's just a mechanism to affect that wealth transfer. I used a specific example, but the point is that this is what the war is really about - making the right people even richer and more powerful than they already are.

Wade.

 

[Comrade]

Onedomino,

You are missing the point. A large part of what this war is about is huge profits for the "right" people, mostly at taxpayer expense. We pay $10 billion and $1 billion goes into those pockets. It's just a mechanism to affect that wealth transfer. I used a specific example, but the point is that this is what the war is really about - making the right people even richer and more powerful than they already are.

Wade.

The right people? Just BUY Haliburton stock and reap the rewards nobody in the Bush administration can since they divested. Get feelthy stinking rich and stop this defeatest attitude. BUY BUY BUY!

 

[wade]

The right people? Just BUY Haliburton stock and reap the rewards nobody in the Bush administration can since they divested. Get feelthy stinking rich and stop this defeatest attitude. BUY BUY BUY!

Ahhh... but to buy you have to have $ to start with. They don't buy, they get stock options and commisions. There is no comparison in the wealth that can be had by buying stock as compared to getting it for free.

Wade.

 

[jimnyc]

Ahhh... but to buy you have to have $ to start with. They don't buy, they get stock options and commisions. There is no comparison in the wealth that can be had by buying stock as compared to getting it for free.

Wade.

Can you please list for us exactly who is getting free stock options and commissions? Please cite reputable sources. Thanks

 

[wade]

Can you please list for us exactly who is getting free stock options and commissions? Please cite reputable sources. Thanks

Everyone on the Halliburton board of directors for one. It's standard business practice. I don't have time to look up data now, my hour for goofing around is almost up. Maybe if I have time tonight I'll do some deeper research into the issue. But one of the big problems is that, under the current laws, you are not required to make public outstanding stock options until they are converted. You can thank Newt and the "Moral Majority" for blocking the requirement that such info be made public.

Wade.

 

[NightTrain]

You know. They-who-send-black-helicopters.

 

[jimnyc]

Everyone on the Halliburton board of directors for one. It's standard business practice. I don't have time to look up data now, my hour for goofing around is almost up. Maybe if I have time tonight I'll do some deeper research into the issue. But one of the big problems is that, under the current laws, you are not required to make public outstanding stock options until they are converted. You can thank Newt and the "Moral Majority" for blocking the requirement that such info be made public.

Wade.

I would expect those on the board to profit, at least that is if they plan on running a successful company. You sure did make it sound as if Bush, Cheney and the rest of those in the decision making with Iraq are doing so for profit. I'd like to see direct evidence to back this up, or at least a retraction on unfounded comments.

 

[jimnyc]

You know. They-who-send-black-helicopters.

Funny how whenever I expect direct and irrefutable proof on a lot of Bush 'theories', these damn black helicopters end up swirling on by!

 

[Annie]

Funny how whenever I expect direct and irrefutable proof on a lot of Bush 'theories', these damn black helicopters end up swirling on by!

:scratch: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :bat:

 

[wade]

I would expect those on the board to profit, at least that is if they plan on running a successful company. You sure did make it sound as if Bush, Cheney and the rest of those in the decision making with Iraq are doing so for profit. I'd like to see direct evidence to back this up, or at least a retraction on unfounded comments.

I never said Bush and Cheney specifically. Rather their cronies, who support them, such as Halliburton. Bush and Cheney will not collect their share until after their life in the White house is over. Then they will be given seats on the boards of a bunch of companies and collect.

How do you think Powell made his 10's of millions? Doesn't it seem kinda wrong to you that a General should, after he retires, gets put on the boards of companies who he had direct purchasing influence for and made a multi-millionair overnight? Doesn't that seem like a big conflict of interest to you?

Profits had through stock options are hardly normal profits. I know, I've made $ this way on IPO's. I though it was some how wrong though - the public buys 20,000,000 shares and does not have any idea that an additional 3,000,000 shares exist in the form of options, which when they mature will dilute the value of the stock they bought.

Wade.

 

[jimnyc]

I never said Bush and Cheney specifically. Rather their cronies, who support them, such as Halliburton. Bush and Cheney will not collect their share until after their life in the White house is over. Then they will be given seats on the boards of a bunch of companies and collect.

Are you clairvoyant, or do you have proof of an offer available to them for when they leave office?

How do you think Powell made his 10's of millions? Doesn't it seem kinda wrong to you that a General should, after he retires, gets put on the boards of companies who he had direct purchasing influence for and made a multi-millionair overnight? Doesn't that seem like a big conflict of interest to you?

It would seem like a conflict of interest to me if there was anything solid to show that he had direct relations while the purchasing was being made. If these purchases were legit and part of good decision making, I really don't give a crap what he does later. Maybe they liked him and his resume, is that possible? Why does everything have to be a conspiracy?

Profits had through stock options are hardly normal profits. I know, I've made $ this way on IPO's. I though it was some how wrong though - the public buys 20,000,000 shares and does not have any idea that an additional 3,000,000 shares exist in the form of options, which when they mature will dilute the value of the stock they bought.

Wade.

Could care less unless I see direct and irrefutable evidence that the administration is currently profiting. Been asked at least a thousand times on this board alone and nothing has been produced to date. It's the same as when liberals claim "it's all about oil, we're stealing oil, Bush/Cheney are profiting off of oil." Lot's of hot air and fancy accusations, but lacks any proof whatsoever.

Besides, I could care less anyway. So long as the WOT is being fought, terrorists are being hunted/killed/captured, NY is rebuilding instead of cleaning up & we stay the course - I again could give 2 craps what goes on behind the scenes. My money is being spent well. Hell, I might even throw a few extra dollars the governments way when I do my taxes. That means there is a bomb on it's way to Iraq with my name on it!

 

[NightTrain]

If only Uncle Sam would make it easy by having a little box you can check to contribute to the Daisy Cutter and MOAB fund... I'd gladly participate in such a worthy program.

 

[wade]

Are you clairvoyant, or do you have proof of an offer available to them for when they leave office?

Of course not. That's the whole point - nothing in writing. But it is still not right. It used to be illegal until Reagans adminstration removed the rules about military personel in positions to influnce contract decisions being employed with companies that had done business with the government. It used to be 4 or 7 years (depending on rank and position) before a person could take such a position. This went out as part of "deregulation".

Tell me, what legitimate service could Powell have possibly provided that would have been worth over $10 million in just a couple of years?

Lots of people have been convicted and sent to jail for life based upon less solid circumstantial evidence than this, some have even been excuted. Your insistance that it must be "documentable" means that they can never get caught for what they are doing if they just don't document it - and that's ridiculous.

When no-bid contracts are given to Bush supporters it is virtually the same as if they were putting the $ in their own pockets. Who do you think is funding Bush's huge campaign war chest? Who do you think funds the Switft Boat people?

Wade.

 

[Annie]

Of course not. That's the whole point - nothing in writing. But it is still not right. It used to be illegal until Reagans adminstration removed the rules about military personel in positions to influnce contract decisions being employed with companies that had done business with the government. It used to be 4 or 7 years (depending on rank and position) before a person could take such a position. This went out as part of "deregulation".

Tell me, what legitimate service could Powell have possibly provided that would have been worth over $10 million in just a couple of years?

Lots of people have been convicted and sent to jail for life based upon less solid circumstantial evidence than this, some have even been excuted. Your insistance that it must be "documentable" means that they can never get caught for what they are doing if they just don't document it - and that's ridiculous.

Wade.

Hey Wade, how about some links for all of these accusations?

 

[wade]

I've already given pleanty of links on haliburton - everytime I do all that happens is you complain about the link - you don't care if the data is true, you won't accept it unless it comes from a right-wing site. And of course right-wing sites don't carry that info as they don't like it.

I don't have time to look it up tonight. I just popped in for a second before bed. Maybe tommarow.

Wade.

 

[Annie]

I've already given pleanty of links on haliburton - everytime I do all that happens is you complain about the link - you don't care if the data is true, you won't accept it unless it comes from a right-wing site. And of course right-wing sites don't carry that info as they don't like it.

I don't have time to look it up tonight. I just popped in for a second before bed. Maybe tommarow.

Wade.

Alright, have a good night.

 

[wade]

Okay, some links for you:

How will President George W. Bush personally make million$, if not billion$ from the War on Terror? The easy way. He'll inherit it.

Lundquist

Business Interests of the Current U.S. Administration

Government-industry revolving door (47 examples of Bush Cronies profiteers)

THE REVOLVING DOOR (24 Bush related profiteers)

Get the idea? The Bush adminstration is making the "right people" rich. All these people have a vested interest in various Bush policies such as the war in Iraq and are (or were) in decision making positions. They setup the profiteering oportunity then move to the private sector to cash in.

And Bush Sr. is making a mint on the Iraq war - which is the same thing as if Bush Jr. were making the $ since he will inherit it!

Wade.