The jobs are leaving! The jobs are leaving!

[Cuyo]

I have an honest question for everyone here in both parties; Where are we on isolationism? How do you guys feel about bringing jobs back, either through tarriffs on imports, or on making laws to prohibit outsourcing, both, or any other means?

The labor pool is flooded, which has forced real wages into the toilet and put the clamp on the middle class. So many people are desperate for work that they'll take far less than someone in their position would make otherwise, and companies are happy to oblige paying them far less.

Thoughts?

 

[California Girl]

Break the stranglehold of Unions. And get government off the backs of small business.

 

[jillian]

Break the stranglehold of Unions. And get government off the backs of small business.

yep...we should compete for jobs with mexico and pay our workers the same wages.

well, that will solve the problem of illegal immigration anyway.

the idea that unions shouldn't exist is pretty silly.

 

[Baruch Menachem]

A tarrif is just one more way to line the pocketbook of public officials at the expense of the public.

It does nothing to protect American workers. Making a better product for less cost does that. Since taxes are a cost, it winds up costing more jobs than it theoretically might save.

 

[Cuyo]

Break the stranglehold of Unions. And get government off the backs of small business.

Unions are an instrument of capitalism, specifically it's the unders telling the overs "You can't do this without us." I know they typically support the democratic party, but they are not government instruments. They are a part of the free market.

Eliminating them would be an infringement on people's right to assemble.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Hey it's the wonderful Global Economy baby. Ain't it great? Personally,i feel that a bit more "Protectionism" & "Isolationism" are exactly what this nation needs at this point. I don't think those two words are nearly the dirty words that some have made them out to be. Globalism is definitely way overrated.

 

[Cuyo]

Hey it's the wonderful Global Economy baby. Ain't it great? Personally,i feel that a bit more "Protectionism" & "Isolationism" are exactly what this nation needs at this point. I don't think those two words are nearly the dirty words that some have made them out to be. Globalism is definitely way overrated.

Globalism has not been friendly to us in the U.S., that's for sure. It's basically forcing us to abandon the way we did business for so long to follow the baseline of other nations, all of whom are poor in comparison, since WWII anyway.

Economists call this the "Race to the bottom."

 

[Baruch Menachem]

Unions in the private sector are almost a non issue now. Unionization as a percentage of all workers continues to shrink, and what little growth there is for unions is almost entirely public sector.

She didn't say wages either. Wages are skill to market driven. Unions are not so much about wages as they are about work rules and seniority.

Public sector unions are very aggressive about hire/fire. Which means they can't fire. Which meas in places like NYC, the district has over 600 teachers who are in the "rubber room" which is where they send teachers they can't allow to have contact with students for various criminal offenses but can't fire.

Since public sector is protected like this, public sector payrolls increase forever, and taxes have to go up forever to pay for it.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Globalism really is way over-rated. The Global Economy hasn't done anything for the average American worker. In fact it has only hurt them.

 

[mudwhistle]

Break the stranglehold of Unions. And get government off the backs of small business.

yep...we should compete for jobs with mexico and pay our workers the same wages.

well, that will solve the problem of illegal immigration anyway.

the idea that unions shouldn't exist is pretty silly.

I think she said "Break the stranglehold" not remove them from existence.

Unions cause much of the problem. Reducing their influence would be a good start...not strengthening it like Obama is doing.

 

[California Girl]

Break the stranglehold of Unions. And get government off the backs of small business.

yep...we should compete for jobs with mexico and pay our workers the same wages.

well, that will solve the problem of illegal immigration anyway.

the idea that unions shouldn't exist is pretty silly.

I didn't say they shouldn't exist, just that they are too powerful.

 

[California Girl]

Unions in the private sector are almost a non issue now. Unionization as a percentage of all workers continues to shrink, and what little growth there is for unions is almost entirely public sector.

She didn't say wages either. Wages are skill to market driven. Unions are not so much about wages as they are about work rules and seniority.

Public sector unions are very aggressive about hire/fire. Which means they can't fire. Which meas in places like NYC, the district has over 600 teachers who are in the "rubber room" which is where they send teachers they can't allow to have contact with students for various criminal offenses but can't fire.

Since public sector is protected like this, public sector payrolls increase forever, and taxes have to go up forever to pay for it.

We need to break the power of the public sector unions too. They are creating huge problems for future generations.

 

[Cuyo]

Break the stranglehold of Unions. And get government off the backs of small business.

yep...we should compete for jobs with mexico and pay our workers the same wages.

well, that will solve the problem of illegal immigration anyway.

the idea that unions shouldn't exist is pretty silly.

I think she said "Break the stranglehold" not remove them from existence.

Unions cause much of the problem. Reducing their influence would be a good start...not strengthening it like Obama is doing.

But where are you on tariffs/eliminating outsourcing? It's starting to sound like a lot of you are in favor of bringing jobs back by removing restrictions that would allow wages to go even lower (or "Become more competitive"). I'm wondering how we feel about ending the competition with 3rd world countries, where they're so desperate for money they'll work for pennies a day.

Perhaps if we ended this "Race to the bottom," unions would be un-necessary? thoughts?

 

[California Girl]

yep...we should compete for jobs with mexico and pay our workers the same wages.

well, that will solve the problem of illegal immigration anyway.

the idea that unions shouldn't exist is pretty silly.

I think she said "Break the stranglehold" not remove them from existence.

Unions cause much of the problem. Reducing their influence would be a good start...not strengthening it like Obama is doing.

But where are you on tariffs/eliminating outsourcing? It's starting to sound like a lot of you are in favor of bringing jobs back by removing restrictions that would allow wages to go even lower (or "Become more competitive"). I'm wondering how we feel about ending the competition with 3rd world countries, where they're so desperate for money they'll work for pennies a day.

Perhaps if we ended this "Race to the bottom," unions would be un-necessary? thoughts?

Business should be free to create jobs where it is most cost effective for them to do so. If that is outside our borders, so be it.

 

[jillian]

I think she said "Break the stranglehold" not remove them from existence.

Unions cause much of the problem. Reducing their influence would be a good start...not strengthening it like Obama is doing.

But where are you on tariffs/eliminating outsourcing? It's starting to sound like a lot of you are in favor of bringing jobs back by removing restrictions that would allow wages to go even lower (or "Become more competitive"). I'm wondering how we feel about ending the competition with 3rd world countries, where they're so desperate for money they'll work for pennies a day.

Perhaps if we ended this "Race to the bottom," unions would be un-necessary? thoughts?

Business should be free to create jobs where it is most cost effective for them to do so. If that is outside our borders, so be it.

and i think people should be paid a living wage for a fair day's work. and i think corporations who send jobs elsewhere should be penalized.

i also think NAFTA was a mistake.

 

[Cuyo]

I think she said "Break the stranglehold" not remove them from existence.

Unions cause much of the problem. Reducing their influence would be a good start...not strengthening it like Obama is doing.

But where are you on tariffs/eliminating outsourcing? It's starting to sound like a lot of you are in favor of bringing jobs back by removing restrictions that would allow wages to go even lower (or "Become more competitive"). I'm wondering how we feel about ending the competition with 3rd world countries, where they're so desperate for money they'll work for pennies a day.

Perhaps if we ended this "Race to the bottom," unions would be un-necessary? thoughts?

Business should be free to create jobs where it is most cost effective for them to do so. If that is outside our borders, so be it.

But you understand, this is harming us, it's funneling money out of our economy to other countries. This is THE huge cause for unemployment and underemployment in this country; Not the unions, not Obama, not the liberals-- The jobs are just plain gone... The booming industrial areas of the 60s and 70s are now abandoned warehouses and ghettos as a result. What used to be economic hot-spots are now depressed areas populated by people who are burdens of the State, because they can't find work.

I think "We the People" decide what companies who make their money here can and can't do. Would you stand by your convictions if your source of income - Whatever it is - Was outsourced?

 

[mudwhistle]

Unions in the private sector are almost a non issue now. Unionization as a percentage of all workers continues to shrink, and what little growth there is for unions is almost entirely public sector.

She didn't say wages either. Wages are skill to market driven. Unions are not so much about wages as they are about work rules and seniority.

Public sector unions are very aggressive about hire/fire. Which means they can't fire. Which meas in places like NYC, the district has over 600 teachers who are in the "rubber room" which is where they send teachers they can't allow to have contact with students for various criminal offenses but can't fire.

Since public sector is protected like this, public sector payrolls increase forever, and taxes have to go up forever to pay for it.

The bailout of GM and Chrysler was just a scam to bail out the unions' failing pension plans.

Once the government took over various companies with huge union memberships the costs were transferred to the taxpayer.

Oh and the reason private-sector unions are shrinking is two-fold. Many of the jobs are leaving because of lack of consumer confidence, rise in unemployment, and the takeover of the unions by the government. Unions are just too expensive for most businesses.

 

[AvgGuyIA]

Break the stranglehold of Unions. And get government off the backs of small business.

yep...we should compete for jobs with mexico and pay our workers the same wages.

well, that will solve the problem of illegal immigration anyway.

the idea that unions shouldn't exist is pretty silly.

State union workers are retiring at 50 and drawing 90% of their final year's pay - including all the bonuses and overtime hours paid.

 

[California Girl]

Break the stranglehold of Unions. And get government off the backs of small business.

yep...we should compete for jobs with mexico and pay our workers the same wages.

well, that will solve the problem of illegal immigration anyway.

the idea that unions shouldn't exist is pretty silly.

State union workers are retiring at 50 and drawing 90% of their final year's pay - including all the bonuses and overtime hours paid.

I knew somebody would get it. We simply cannot afford that.

 

[Xenophon]

So you can start a thread with a little civility, good.

I oppose the concept of political parties, but the topic is important.

I have an honest question for everyone here in both parties; Where are we on isolationism? How do you guys feel about bringing jobs back, either through tarriffs on imports, or on making laws to prohibit outsourcing, both, or any other means?

The word Isolationism is a misnomer, that refers to shutting out the entire world when I don't believe that is the desired goal in the question.

When you have a disfunctional political system that is mainly concerned with getting itself re-elected its dangerous to talk about it making laws about business and industry as it trends towards populism and away from making hard decisions that would needed for real firm change.

However there are things that can be done, to end 'outsourcing' but they should be done in a draconian fasion, such as companies that outsource PC help for example, should be taxed 100%. That would end it right there. Basically you would be saying 'if you use anyone but Americans, you won't be making a dime.'

Tariffs and trade barriers are something else, to change any of that the USA would have to leave the WTO which we ceeded part of our soverenty too, and who control what they think are 'fair' trade and protections and tariffs.

The labor pool is flooded, which has forced real wages into the toilet and put the clamp on the middle class. So many people are desperate for work that they'll take far less than someone in their position would make otherwise, and companies are happy to oblige paying them far less.

Thoughts?

The pool is flooded because the USA has very little true industry anymore, outside of food and weapons we make very little else.