Attitudes: So what else is new?

[MaggieMae]

"There's a huge groundswell of dissatisfaction with
______________________ [fill in blank]."


"There's a huge grass roots movement toward
defeating the ____________________ policies which
are ruining this country."


"Throw the bums out!"


"We're gonna take our party back starting with the
mid-term elections!"


"Our way or the highway is the ________________'s
brand of conducting the business of Washington."

"______________________'s are FASCISTS!"


"______________________'s act like NAZIS!"


"We the People are demanding change in the way
Washington does business!"

Welcome to the world of politics as I've known it over the last 15 years.​

 

[RetiredGySgt]

"There's a huge groundswell of dissatisfaction with
______________________ [fill in blank]."


"There's a huge grass roots movement toward
defeating the ____________________ policies which
are ruining this country."


"Throw the bums out!"


"We're gonna take our party back starting with the
mid-term elections!"


"Our way or the highway is the ________________'s
brand of conducting the business of Washington."

"______________________'s are FASCISTS!"


"______________________'s act like NAZIS!"


"We the People are demanding change in the way
Washington does business!"

Welcome to the world of politics as I've known it over the last 15 years.​

Must suck that after a single year all your crowing about the Republicans being done for the next 40 years is not true. Only took one YEAR of your buddy Obama to get people into hating him and the Democrats.

 

[Big Black Dog]

"There's a huge groundswell of dissatisfaction with dumb-assed stupid reality tv shows. [fill in blank]."


"There's a huge grass roots movement toward
defeating the Wal-Mart return policies which
are ruining this country."


"Throw the bums out!"


"We're gonna take our party back starting with the
mid-term elections!"


"Our way or the highway is the Federal Highway Commission's
brand of conducting the business of Washington."

Fascists are FASCISTS!"


Nazis act like NAZIS!"


"We the People are demanding change in the way
Washington does business!"

Welcome to the world of politics as I've known it over the last 15 years.​

a

 

[Baruch Menachem]

Large numbers of folks disagree fundamentally with large numbers of other folks. It was true back in the days of Pericles, and I hope it goes on forever. It makes things exciting, especially when there are people with interesting things to say who can say it well on both sides.

The problems arise not from the yelling back and forth (i get to do my fair share!) but when someone imposes THE VIEW from their aerie in the Kremlin, or from Berchtesgarden, for from Pyongyang or Saddam's palace de jour. Freedom of thought leads to better thought, mostly from all that friction generating enough heat that light emerges. The fact I can call you on your stupid and you can call me on mine means that stupid is caught and stopped, and smart stuff sort of escapes the yelling and actually winds up as public policy.

 

[MaggieMae]

"There's a huge groundswell of dissatisfaction with
______________________ [fill in blank]."


"There's a huge grass roots movement toward
defeating the ____________________ policies which
are ruining this country."


"Throw the bums out!"


"We're gonna take our party back starting with the
mid-term elections!"


"Our way or the highway is the ________________'s
brand of conducting the business of Washington."

"______________________'s are FASCISTS!"


"______________________'s act like NAZIS!"


"We the People are demanding change in the way
Washington does business!"

Welcome to the world of politics as I've known it over the last 15 years.​

Must suck that after a single year all your crowing about the Republicans being done for the next 40 years is not true. Only took one YEAR of your buddy Obama to get people into hating him and the Democrats.

Yes, thanks to the Republican strategy to just say no to everything. And don't fool yourself that it was NOT their secret strategy no matter how much grandstanding they've done that they "want to work with the Democrats." It's worked out well. Republicans are so much better at riling up controversy than Democrats are. They know how to get headlines which inevitably trump the fact-checkers whose information takes a bit longer to read.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

"There's a huge groundswell of dissatisfaction with
______________________ [fill in blank]."


"There's a huge grass roots movement toward
defeating the ____________________ policies which
are ruining this country."


"Throw the bums out!"


"We're gonna take our party back starting with the
mid-term elections!"


"Our way or the highway is the ________________'s
brand of conducting the business of Washington."

"______________________'s are FASCISTS!"


"______________________'s act like NAZIS!"


"We the People are demanding change in the way
Washington does business!"

Welcome to the world of politics as I've known it over the last 15 years.​

Must suck that after a single year all your crowing about the Republicans being done for the next 40 years is not true. Only took one YEAR of your buddy Obama to get people into hating him and the Democrats.

Yes, thanks to the Republican strategy to just say no to everything. And don't fool yourself that it was NOT their secret strategy no matter how much grandstanding they've done that they "want to work with the Democrats." It's worked out well. Republicans are so much better at riling up controversy than Democrats are. They know how to get headlines which inevitably trump the fact-checkers whose information takes a bit longer to read.

Remind me again how 40 Republican Senators stopped anything in the Senate? How 170 Republican Representatives stopped anything in a 435 member House? I won't wait.

 

[Baruch Menachem]

"There's a huge groundswell of dissatisfaction with
______________________ [fill in blank]."


"There's a huge grass roots movement toward
defeating the ____________________ policies which
are ruining this country."


"Throw the bums out!"


"We're gonna take our party back starting with the
mid-term elections!"


"Our way or the highway is the ________________'s
brand of conducting the business of Washington."

"______________________'s are FASCISTS!"


"______________________'s act like NAZIS!"


"We the People are demanding change in the way
Washington does business!"

Welcome to the world of politics as I've known it over the last 15 years.​

Must suck that after a single year all your crowing about the Republicans being done for the next 40 years is not true. Only took one YEAR of your buddy Obama to get people into hating him and the Democrats.

Yes, thanks to the Republican strategy to just say no to everything. And don't fool yourself that it was NOT their secret strategy no matter how much grandstanding they've done that they "want to work with the Democrats." It's worked out well. Republicans are so much better at riling up controversy than Democrats are. They know how to get headlines which inevitably trump the fact-checkers whose information takes a bit longer to read.

Sometimes NO is the right answer. It doesn't have to be a "secret strategy." It is inherent just in the nature of how the different parties see things.

As far as I am concerned, NO is the right answer for most of Obama's agenda. YMMV. That is the nature of politics, and opposing views.

 

[MaggieMae]

Must suck that after a single year all your crowing about the Republicans being done for the next 40 years is not true. Only took one YEAR of your buddy Obama to get people into hating him and the Democrats.

Yes, thanks to the Republican strategy to just say no to everything. And don't fool yourself that it was NOT their secret strategy no matter how much grandstanding they've done that they "want to work with the Democrats." It's worked out well. Republicans are so much better at riling up controversy than Democrats are. They know how to get headlines which inevitably trump the fact-checkers whose information takes a bit longer to read.

Remind me again how 40 Republican Senators stopped anything in the Senate? How 170 Republican Representatives stopped anything in a 435 member House? I won't wait.

Because Democrats never do vote as a block. Never have and never will.

 

[The Rabbi]

And Republicans do?
I will say Obama has proven to be a uniter. He has managed to unite the Republican Party against him. And that includes such trimmers as Olympia Snowe and Collins. Those two would cross the street to vote for a Democratic bill outlawing the GOP in the interests of bipartisanship. And even they are saying no to Democratic left wing policies. Remarkable.

 

[MaggieMae]

Must suck that after a single year all your crowing about the Republicans being done for the next 40 years is not true. Only took one YEAR of your buddy Obama to get people into hating him and the Democrats.

Yes, thanks to the Republican strategy to just say no to everything. And don't fool yourself that it was NOT their secret strategy no matter how much grandstanding they've done that they "want to work with the Democrats." It's worked out well. Republicans are so much better at riling up controversy than Democrats are. They know how to get headlines which inevitably trump the fact-checkers whose information takes a bit longer to read.

Sometimes NO is the right answer. It doesn't have to be a "secret strategy." It is inherent just in the nature of how the different parties see things.

As far as I am concerned, NO is the right answer for most of Obama's agenda. YMMV. That is the nature of politics, and opposing views.

I agree that it's the nature of politics, which was my initial point. But I don't think for one moment that the current batch of Republicans in leadership positions haven't been intending to replicate Newt Gingrich's 1994 plan to overturn Democratic control and eventually oust President Clinton. Newt's strategy was "any defeat for the opposition is a victory for us." Gingrich (and Dick Armey) figured that if they could beat down Clinton's health care reform, they could stop the Democrats in their tracks and rise to power again. And it worked. That is precisely the strategy that Republicans are following today. They intend to return to power by denying Obama any successes and as many big defeats as possible, regardless of any merits that might actually benefit the people of the country.

 

[MaggieMae]

And Republicans do?
I will say Obama has proven to be a uniter. He has managed to unite the Republican Party against him. And that includes such trimmers as Olympia Snowe and Collins. Those two would cross the street to vote for a Democratic bill outlawing the GOP in the interests of bipartisanship. And even they are saying no to Democratic left wing policies. Remarkable.

Remarkable only in that they both would lose their jobs if they did otherwise. Any Republican who dares to not support the strict conservative agenda gets labeled a RHINO and is rewarded with the rath of the right wing noisemakers like Rush Limbaugh.

 

[mudwhistle]

Yes, thanks to the Republican strategy to just say no to everything. And don't fool yourself that it was NOT their secret strategy no matter how much grandstanding they've done that they "want to work with the Democrats." It's worked out well. Republicans are so much better at riling up controversy than Democrats are. They know how to get headlines which inevitably trump the fact-checkers whose information takes a bit longer to read.

Remind me again how 40 Republican Senators stopped anything in the Senate? How 170 Republican Representatives stopped anything in a 435 member House? I won't wait.

Because Democrats never do vote as a block. Never have and never will.

You just lost all credibility with that lie.

 

[MaggieMae]

Remind me again how 40 Republican Senators stopped anything in the Senate? How 170 Republican Representatives stopped anything in a 435 member House? I won't wait.

Because Democrats never do vote as a block. Never have and never will.

You just lost all credibility with that lie.

There are moderate Democrats; there are blue dog Democrats; there are liberal Democrats; there are even conservative Democrats. And they often butt heads.

What part don't you get?

 

[Cuyo]

"There's a huge groundswell of dissatisfaction with
______________________ [fill in blank]."


"There's a huge grass roots movement toward
defeating the ____________________ policies which
are ruining this country."


"Throw the bums out!"


"We're gonna take our party back starting with the
mid-term elections!"


"Our way or the highway is the ________________'s
brand of conducting the business of Washington."

"______________________'s are FASCISTS!"


"______________________'s act like NAZIS!"


"We the People are demanding change in the way
Washington does business!"

Welcome to the world of politics as I've known it over the last 15 years.​

I like you!

 

[Baruch Menachem]

Yes, thanks to the Republican strategy to just say no to everything. And don't fool yourself that it was NOT their secret strategy no matter how much grandstanding they've done that they "want to work with the Democrats." It's worked out well. Republicans are so much better at riling up controversy than Democrats are. They know how to get headlines which inevitably trump the fact-checkers whose information takes a bit longer to read.

Sometimes NO is the right answer. It doesn't have to be a "secret strategy." It is inherent just in the nature of how the different parties see things.

As far as I am concerned, NO is the right answer for most of Obama's agenda. YMMV. That is the nature of politics, and opposing views.

I agree that it's the nature of politics, which was my initial point. But I don't think for one moment that the current batch of Republicans in leadership positions haven't been intending to replicate Newt Gingrich's 1994 plan to overturn Democratic control and eventually oust President Clinton. Newt's strategy was "any defeat for the opposition is a victory for us." Gingrich (and Dick Armey) figured that if they could beat down Clinton's health care reform, they could stop the Democrats in their tracks and rise to power again. And it worked. That is precisely the strategy that Republicans are following today. They intend to return to power by denying Obama any successes and as many big defeats as possible, regardless of any merits that might actually benefit the people of the country.

Given the nature of Obama's agenda, my feeling is defeating it is sort of a patriotic duty. I think it is that bad.

For most of us on the right, the particulars of the thing make it bad, not who proposed it.

And it is the job of the minority power to show that the emperor is running around in his birthday suit. That is what gives representative government its power.

And Hillarycare was pretty bad too. They did a good job in killing that as well.

Making sure the government listens is why we elect these people. They are supposed to fight tooth and nail for their constituents, and their constitutional responsibility as well.

You seem to think that their opposition is unprincipled. I think they are finally upholding the principles the best possible way.

When Madison wrote his draft, he was looking at what went wrong before in Rome and in Greece and in Poland and in Holland and tried to make a sensible system where what went wrong there didn't go wrong here. Obamacare and Hillarycare are both prime examples of Madison's wisdom.

 

[Cuyo]

Yes, thanks to the Republican strategy to just say no to everything. And don't fool yourself that it was NOT their secret strategy no matter how much grandstanding they've done that they "want to work with the Democrats." It's worked out well. Republicans are so much better at riling up controversy than Democrats are. They know how to get headlines which inevitably trump the fact-checkers whose information takes a bit longer to read.

Sometimes NO is the right answer. It doesn't have to be a "secret strategy." It is inherent just in the nature of how the different parties see things.

As far as I am concerned, NO is the right answer for most of Obama's agenda. YMMV. That is the nature of politics, and opposing views.

I agree that it's the nature of politics, which was my initial point. But I don't think for one moment that the current batch of Republicans in leadership positions haven't been intending to replicate Newt Gingrich's 1994 plan to overturn Democratic control and eventually oust President Clinton. Newt's strategy was "any defeat for the opposition is a victory for us." Gingrich (and Dick Armey) figured that if they could beat down Clinton's health care reform, they could stop the Democrats in their tracks and rise to power again. And it worked. That is precisely the strategy that Republicans are following today. They intend to return to power by denying Obama any successes and as many big defeats as possible, regardless of any merits that might actually benefit the people of the country.

It's true, and they've been very successful in this strategy. Obstruct anything they try to do, then accuse them of doing nothing.

1. Obama wants to raise the top tax tier from 36% to 39%. That's socialism/wealth redistribution! (Eisenhower(R) had it at 90%)
2. Trying to control big business is an infringement on the free market! (Theodore Roosevelt(R) was famous for trust-busting; At that time it was railroad tycoons, who he called the worst criminals in the land)
3. Cap and Trade is un-necessary and socialist! (Ronald Reagan(R) was a huge proponent; At that time the concern was controlling acid rain)

 

[xotoxi]

"There's a huge groundswell of dissatisfaction with ___urinary incontinence treatment options___."


"Our way or the highway is the ___Washington City Council's___ brand of conducting the business of Washington."

 

[MaggieMae]

Sometimes NO is the right answer. It doesn't have to be a "secret strategy." It is inherent just in the nature of how the different parties see things.

As far as I am concerned, NO is the right answer for most of Obama's agenda. YMMV. That is the nature of politics, and opposing views.

I agree that it's the nature of politics, which was my initial point. But I don't think for one moment that the current batch of Republicans in leadership positions haven't been intending to replicate Newt Gingrich's 1994 plan to overturn Democratic control and eventually oust President Clinton. Newt's strategy was "any defeat for the opposition is a victory for us." Gingrich (and Dick Armey) figured that if they could beat down Clinton's health care reform, they could stop the Democrats in their tracks and rise to power again. And it worked. That is precisely the strategy that Republicans are following today. They intend to return to power by denying Obama any successes and as many big defeats as possible, regardless of any merits that might actually benefit the people of the country.

Given the nature of Obama's agenda, my feeling is defeating it is sort of a patriotic duty. I think it is that bad.

For most of us on the right, the particulars of the thing make it bad, not who proposed it.

And it is the job of the minority power to show that the emperor is running around in his birthday suit. That is what gives representative government its power.

And Hillarycare was pretty bad too. They did a good job in killing that as well.

Making sure the government listens is why we elect these people. They are supposed to fight tooth and nail for their constituents, and their constitutional responsibility as well.

You seem to think that their opposition is unprincipled. I think they are finally upholding the principles the best possible way.

When Madison wrote his draft, he was looking at what went wrong before in Rome and in Greece and in Poland and in Holland and tried to make a sensible system where what went wrong there didn't go wrong here. Obamacare and Hillarycare are both prime examples of Madison's wisdom.

I wholly recognize that's the way it should be, and I have no objections at all to the Constitutional system of checks and balances which allows for debate and compromise. But it should be honest, without motive or agenda. When such debates become nothing more than platitudes (such as I heard all weekend from the speakers at the C-Pac conference), then we are on the road to gridlock ad infinitum (which is what my original thoughts conveyed).

You know, for myself, I really don't give a damn, because for health reasons I probably won't even be around by 2012 and possibly not by next November. What I worry about is the "patriotic" image that the United States of America and its people have held dear for over 200 years, and when I see the country so polarized that nobody--NOBODY--seems to remember that we have always been a nation of common sense ideology and not distinctively right or left, then I worry for the next generation of leaders who know nothing else but division.

What will it take? Another September 11th to bring people to their senses that NOBODY is right all the time and NOBODY is wrong all the time and that we're all in it together to figure out the best acceptable course of action for all of us?

 

[Baruch Menachem]

Things now a bit worse than they were a while ago, But they are a lot better than things were in the early 70s. But things have been a lot worse as well.

Because of the rise of the message board, we see a lot more of the Emily Litella out there than we used to notice. A lot of the political discourse is now at the great big bar of the message board. And so while the level has actually not gone down (From what I remember from the papers from the 60s, things are a lot better now) you see more of the lower level.

 

[MaggieMae]

Things now a bit worse than they were a while ago, But they are a lot better than things were in the early 70s. But things have been a lot worse as well.

Because of the rise of the message board, we see a lot more of the Emily Litella out there than we used to notice. A lot of the political discourse is now at the great big bar of the message board. And so while the level has actually not gone down (From what I remember from the papers from the 60s, things are a lot better now) you see more of the lower level.