The Great Tribulation - Matthew 24

[The Irish Ram]

It isn't the topic that bothers me. It is the attitude that you need to warn people about anyone that doesn't share your views, insinuate that they are false prophets, tell preachers here they need to repent, and suggest that those who don't believe what you do, lack knowledge or understanding.

By the standards you judged me, Lester Sumrall is a false prophet that you should be warning people about instead of using him as a glowing example of God's work. How is it that He has the God given Holy Spirit capability to preform acts that impressed you, then turn around and lead his flock in the wrong direction?

I don't mind one bit your beliefs, or even talking about the differences in our belief's. I take offense at the personal attacks. This is the second time you have judged me in public. It's time for you to give Christ His judgment robe back and stop casting aspersions. You may be the one who needs to study. The vast majority of tried and true preachers don't agree with you. Post trib has very few backers.

Having said that, I would love to stay on good terms with you, and be able to enjoy each other's company, but if it has to be at the expense of my character, that won't happen. I may confront what I believe to be an error, but I don't go after the poster. I'd appreciate the same courtesy in return.

I'm voting for remaining friends.

 

[Abishai100]

If we take a look at modern civilization, we find examples of the complexity of ethics and the dangers of gluttony associated with convenience lifestyles (i.e., eTrade, Burger King, etc.).

The modern muse is perhaps the airline stewardess who ushers in passengers in our new world of mass convenience transit.

Could this stewardess be the prophetic harlot of Babylon described in the Christian Bible as the key agent in the Great Tribulation which beckons not only the AntiChrist but also invokes the powers of an entire evil kingdom on Earth?

Modern populism art celebrates the gender-celebratory comic book avatars Poison Ivy (an eco-terrorist bent on radical consumerism revolution) and Storm (a mysterious mutant woman who can command the forces of Earth winds, rain, and hurricanes).

Ancient religions such as Hinduism characterize a mystical goddess named Durga who rides atop a lion with swords, representing gender strength and inviting people to consider that the woman warrior is real. Likewise, old world (and new world) Christianity offers us the image of a powerful woman (the harlot of Babylon) who complexly rides atop a multi-headed dragon or beast and suggesting that the woman warrior is fearful.

How can we coordinate avatars such as Durga and the Christian harlot rider with modern society lifestyle comic book avatars such as Poison Ivy and Storm who invite us to critique man's wayward treatment of Earth's natural environment?

Perhaps the Great Tribulation is a test to see if we can indeed coordinate such politics-infused gender avatars with each other to come up with a concrete lifestyle temperance plan needed to properly celebrate surf-daredevil Hollywood (USA) movies such as "The Aviator" (2004) which represent modern imagination.

After all, how do we spiritually feel when we watch a woman marine scientist-trainer ride killer whales at the animalia-profit amusement park Sea World in California, USA?





Whore of Babylon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[September]

@Abiahai

The Whore of Babylon is most likely a metaphor describing the Vatican/ Roman Catholic Church. Revelations says "And the woman which thou sawest is that great city which reigns over the Kings of the Earth".

The Dragon she sits atop of has seven heads. Rome is known to have seven hills.

She is said to have been "clothed in scarlet and purple, and adorned in gold and precious jewels..."

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

It isn't the topic that bothers me. It is the attitude that you need to warn people about anyone that doesn't share your views, insinuate that they are false prophets, tell preachers here they need to repent, and suggest that those who don't believe what you do, lack knowledge or understanding.

By the standards you judged me, Lester Sumrall is a false prophet that you should be warning people about instead of using him as a glowing example of God's work. How is it that He has the God given Holy Spirit capability to preform acts that impressed you, then turn around and lead his flock in the wrong direction?

I don't mind one bit your beliefs, or even talking about the differences in our belief's. I take offense at the personal attacks. This is the second time you have judged me in public. It's time for you to give Christ His judgment robe back and stop casting aspersions. You may be the one who needs to study. The vast majority of tried and true preachers don't agree with you. Post trib has very few backers.

Having said that, I would love to stay on good terms with you, and be able to enjoy each other's company, but if it has to be at the expense of my character, that won't happen. I may confront what I believe to be an error, but I don't go after the poster. I'd appreciate the same courtesy in return.

I'm voting for remaining friends.

I certainly hope you and I will remain friends, I believe there has been a serious misunderstanding here, Irish Ram. First, I apologise to you that you felt in my confronting error of doctrine on my threads was anything related to you personally. If you will review my threads and posts on this board and specificly the religion thread you'll find that is true.

It is scriptural to point out false teachers by what they teach -because they do it publicly before millions of people - from behind their pulpits and with their books, teaching tapes, etc. No one on this board is selling books on New Age nor on television so nothing I've said was about them personally. I have had discussions with many different people on this board - I address what has been spoken and if it is new age I say so, if it is a Jehovah Witness doctrine not found in the bible I address that but you will always find I am very polite to the individual and that includes you. If you feel I was not polite to you at any time I wish you had told me as just a week or two ago you were defending me on the thread I fear the LORD, Israel and if you will recall it was myself that came under attack for not believing rock and roll belonged in the church, Irish Ram. ( again this is my belief and if others wish to do it - that is their decision )

Anyone who doubts my behavior towards others on this board can review the history of my threads and posts here concerning my speaking to Jehovah Witnesses, Mormons, New Agers and Muslims.

The only persons I was ever rude to were Muslims and I apologised for that a very long time ago. Love is not rude. I do my very best to never be rude to anyone, Irish Ram.

You obviously feel offended and for that I apologise to you, because your feelings matter to me. Whatever it was that led to your feeling this way I profusely apologise for as I would never want to harm you. I would never intentionally - knowingly cause you any distress or harm by my words - I would not ever desire to do that to someone!

Why would I call you a Christian sister if you were not my Christian sister? Do you think I would call you a sister still? I assure you I would never! If I didn't believe you were a Christian Sister who was heaven bound and believed the Doctrine of Christ I would not consider you a sister in Christ.

Let me say this to you -

I make it a rule not to ever vindicate myself as I get accused of many things I am not guilty of and have always let God vindicate me.

But in this matter I feel for the sake of unity with my sister in Christ - which YOU ARE, that I had to address this. I did not do it right away because I wanted to give you some time to clear your mind and realize that Satan is the one who desires to bring division among the brethren. Not God.

God desires that His children to always walk in love towards one another. I believe in unity in the body of Christ and I do consider you my sister in Christ. If you should ever feel that anything I have written is a personal attack against you or that anything I have said is a false teaching not found in the bible please let me know at once. I care about you as my sister in Christ and believe you feel the same towards me as your sister in Christ - I would expect you to let me know at once. With Love in Christ, Jeri

 

[Abishai100]

Hell-Mouth

What if the Great Tribulation is related to a systemic development? The Bible certainly suggests that various worldly signs indicate a challenging condition near the end of times.

We know from our modern world news that society scandals such as the Enron insider trading fiasco (an incident involving Wall Street traders engaged in questionable information-leaking management) hint at a ethics control-failure systemic aperture (what Christians might call a 'Hell-Mouth').

Could relevant corruption-inquisition Hollywood (USA) movies such as "The Wolf of Wall Street" (2013) indicate the sort of Tribulation-related modern age developments crystallized in the 'Hell-Mouth' inviting Enron scandal?

To separate conspiracy from spiritual passion, we should think more about why we would want to connect the Great Tribulation with the Rapture. Are we seeking connections for closure? Are we seeking such connections to secure a theoretical prosperity-paranoia Hell-Mouth introduced by scandals such as the Enron incident?





Enron scandal - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

And you needed to revive one of my old threads to say this? Seriously? Here is a novel idea for you. Make a thread about it!

 

[Abishai100]

Babylon: Gender Vessels



It does seem that a key character in the Great Tribulation is the mysterious woman, the harlot of Babylon, who rides on a dangerous beast and defiles the thrones of man.


--------

"and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

And upon her forehead was a name written, 'Mystery, Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots And Abominations Of The Earth.'

And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration." (Revelation 17, KJV).

--------




The progression of women's roles has been intriguing indeed. In the days of early man, women were ritually assigned to tasks related to child-rearing and cooking. In the days of monarchies, women took on the roles of queens or concubines. In the early days of the Americas, women registered themselves as mail-order-brides for pioneer settlers looking for convenience marriages while establishing settler opportunities in the developing West. In modern day, women find themselves in unique political positions as well as advanced custom roles; for example, many Russian women list themselves as Internet mail-order-brides, seeking eager American men who will give them new lives and a residency permit in the USA.

Women have always been a part of humanity's development of social customs and labors.

Our modern world of consumerism-catalyzed globalization (i.e., eTrade, Burger King, etc.) seems to foster the development of urban hubs of commerce (i.e., San Francisco) and their commuter-friendly outlier suburbia regions. We've built a world of 'ATM picket fences' in a way.

The hit American television series "Desperate Housewives" (2004-2012) presented candid and humorous stories about curious housewives experimenting with 'ATM picket fences' securities by exploring wayward behaviors and natural temptations.

Could the Biblical mysterious harlot of Babylon be a 'commerce culture insecurity rider?'







en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desperate_Housewives

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

The Great Tribulation is a literal event that is drawing nearer as we see the world moving towards a One World Government. Christians need to prepare themselves for the perilous times ahead and the world needs to repent of its sins and call upon the name of the LORD and be saved. Anyone who takes the mark of the beast - which will be required to buy, sell or trade under the coming One World Order - will not be able to be enter heaven no matter how repentant they are for having received the mark. No matter what you have to suffer - do not take that mark - chip - in your hand or forehead. Don't do it. Matthew 24 is clear that many will fall away. Make sure that isn't you. Call upon the name of Jesus Christ, repent of your sins and be saved. Live for Jesus Christ not Satan, Abishai. Hell is truth seen too late. There are no rewards awaiting anyone in hell - only utter torment that will go on for all eternity. See Jack Chick thread and read those. They will help you understand the truth of what is going on in this world and why you must be saved.

 

[AmericanFirst]

When the day of Pentacost came, it was not long before persecution followed. Some of those Believers living during that time thought this is the great tribulation Jesus spoke of in Matthew 24! Perhaps we have missed the rapture! Paul had to correct them and tell them that the man of sin would be revealed first. ( the anti-christ ) In other words, do not be troubled. The rapture has not taken place.

I have a serious concern for Christians who are expecting the rapture to come before the great tribulation because I can find no evidence of a pre-tribulation rapture in the bible. The other night while watching a christian preacher on television who has a magazine called The End times - he stated that although he could not find any evidence of a pre-tribulation rapture - he withheld that information from his readers because he didn't want to be called a false prophet.

His wife had told him that if he taught the church was going through the tribulation he would be called a false prophet. So he prayed about it, studied the scriptures carefully and concluded it was time to tell others what he had found. My husband listened to him and said, Look! That preacher believes the same thing you believe about the rapture! I admit I was surprised because other than Michael Boldea Jr. I have not found any other Pastors / evangelists teaching the catching up "after the tribulation". So let's look at the scriptures on the rapture and I will also add a few of the the scriptures that the End Times minister found and we can study it out together.

Beginning with Mathew 24: 4

And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying I am the Christ, and shall deceive many. And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there shall be famines and pestilences, and earthquakes,. in divers places. All these are the beginning of sorrows.

Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you, and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. But he that shall endure unto the end the same shall be saved.

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations, and then shall the end come.

Matt. 24: 4 -14
______________________
Jesus warned us first, Take heed that no man deceive you. Why? Because the times leading up to and including the Great Tribulation will be a time of great deception upon the earth. The LORD informs us that we shall hear of wars and rumours of wars and again he warns us, "See that you are not troubled" .... all these things must come to pass ........ the end is not yet. ( not time for Him to return yet )

Then as these things come to pass the LORD calls these times the beginnings of sorrows. I believe we are entering those times and the great tribulation is not far off now.

We see false prophets abounding, we also hear of those claiming to be Christ - ( but are not ) in Europe a new age Jesus is supposedly waiting in the wings to be announced, Lord something or another, the occasional report of a person in the USA claiming to be the Messiah, more and more we are hearing of such announcements... still Jesus has not returned.

Iniquity is abounding in the world and in the church and the love of Jesus Christ is waxing cold, we see that all about us. Just look at the news reports from this message board - even the world knows iniquity is greatly increasing upon the earth in this hour.

In much of the church, people are no longer tolerating sound doctrine but have itching ears to hear the latest, greatest "revelation"... it matters not that it is all lies.. they just want to hear a gospel that soothes their conscience, that tells them it alright to seek the riches of this world, no need to confess our sins or live holy, forget repentance - the latest revelation is there is no such thing as repentance - that one comes from yet another false prophet and his popularity is on the rise on the christian television networks.

Yes, the altars have been turned into stages that look like Grammy Award shows complete with rock music set to christian lingo. No more pure holy gospel hymns that have the anointing on them and what would bring a true heartfelt repentance - like the Spirit led sermons Tozer and Ravenhill, Charles Finney, Spurgeon or Jonathan Edwards preached!

No, I am told that today many of these wide road false preachers get their sermons off of the internet because they do not hear the Holy Spirit speaking to them. How can they when they have no relationship with God?

Yet in other places around the world - outside of the United States - we see Christians being put to death on a greater scale than ever before in the history of the world. Perhaps because this hasn't happened here in America the church still clings to a pre-tribulation rapture. So the following are scriptures to examine and find out what the bible says about the LORD's return.

It is written:

Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened. and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

AND THEN shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven, and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
- Matthew 24: 29 - 31

_________________
These are the words of Jesus. When shall Jesus return? Immediately after the tribulation of those days. Not before.

My personal belief is of a pretribulation rapture. Reason why I think that is why would God let his children go through the tribulation? But the Bible doesn't support that or any other theory specifically.

 

[AmericanFirst]

Question for those believing in a pre-tribulation rapture. If those who are martyred for Christ because they refuse to deny the Word of God and refuse to take the mark in their hand or in their forehead are the first resurrection......... how can you then be raptured 7 years before them? These are of the first resurrection are the choice saints that rule and reign with Jesus Christ for a thousand years. The finest of the wheat as Watchman Nee would say.

If you are a choice servant why would you be wisked away into the air before the first resurrection and be denied the privledge of ruling and reigning with Jesus Christ for 1000 years ? Does that even make sense? No. It doesn't. Any servant worth their salt would refuse such an offer hoping for a better resurrection! The first one! Read Hebrews! Hold on! I will get the scripture for you.

* Better yet, if the martyred for Christ are the first resurrection it is impossible that anything went before they did! Understand?

" choice servant will be be wisked away into the air " on rapture day and miss the seven years of the great tribulation, then return with JESUS AND DEFEAT ALL EVIL AND RULE WITH JESUS FOR THE 1000 YEARS.

Book and verse?

 

[AmericanFirst]

Question to those who doubt it. Why is it that the early church were martyred for Christ and western Christians do not believe martyrdom is for them? Stephen was martryed for Christ, Peter was martyred for Christ, the apostles were martyred for Christ, albeit John was exiled to the isle of Patmos, the early christians were fed to the lions, the christians all over the world are right now being martyred for Christ and the church of America is still clinging tightly to a pre - tribulation rapture - totally unprepared. Why is that?

What is so terrible about being martyred for Christ? You have to go somehow! Would you rather die from a mosquito bite? Where is the glory in that? I mean seriously, church! THINK!!!

How can one possibly prepare for the book of Revelation's judgments?

The locusts in Revelation 9. How would you defeat them?

Revelation 9:10 And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months.

I think if you had anything to defeat them, they wouldn't be hurting men for five months.

And then a third part of the men were killed (Revelation 9:18).

Amos 5:18 ¶ Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light.

The day of the Lord is like a man feeling from a lion and just when he thinks he escapes, a bear met him or he went into a house and said, "whew" and leaned on the wall and a serpent bit him.

Amos 5:19 As if a man did flee from a lion, and a bear met him; or went into the house, and leaned his hand on the wall, and a serpent bit him.

How do you prepare for that when you go to hide and then you get bit by a serpent?

Where would you hide when the men are asking the rocks to fall on them?

Revelation 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

How do you prepare? There is no where you can run because the locusts will find you.

Here is the answer. Unless God intervenes, no one will survive:

Matthew 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Simply by having faith. That is why I believe in pre-trib rapture.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

When the day of Pentacost came, it was not long before persecution followed. Some of those Believers living during that time thought this is the great tribulation Jesus spoke of in Matthew 24! Perhaps we have missed the rapture! Paul had to correct them and tell them that the man of sin would be revealed first. ( the anti-christ ) In other words, do not be troubled. The rapture has not taken place.

I have a serious concern for Christians who are expecting the rapture to come before the great tribulation because I can find no evidence of a pre-tribulation rapture in the bible. The other night while watching a christian preacher on television who has a magazine called The End times - he stated that although he could not find any evidence of a pre-tribulation rapture - he withheld that information from his readers because he didn't want to be called a false prophet.

His wife had told him that if he taught the church was going through the tribulation he would be called a false prophet. So he prayed about it, studied the scriptures carefully and concluded it was time to tell others what he had found. My husband listened to him and said, Look! That preacher believes the same thing you believe about the rapture! I admit I was surprised because other than Michael Boldea Jr. I have not found any other Pastors / evangelists teaching the catching up "after the tribulation". So let's look at the scriptures on the rapture and I will also add a few of the the scriptures that the End Times minister found and we can study it out together.

Beginning with Mathew 24: 4

And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying I am the Christ, and shall deceive many. And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there shall be famines and pestilences, and earthquakes,. in divers places. All these are the beginning of sorrows.

Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you, and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. But he that shall endure unto the end the same shall be saved.

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations, and then shall the end come.

Matt. 24: 4 -14
______________________
Jesus warned us first, Take heed that no man deceive you. Why? Because the times leading up to and including the Great Tribulation will be a time of great deception upon the earth. The LORD informs us that we shall hear of wars and rumours of wars and again he warns us, "See that you are not troubled" .... all these things must come to pass ........ the end is not yet. ( not time for Him to return yet )

Then as these things come to pass the LORD calls these times the beginnings of sorrows. I believe we are entering those times and the great tribulation is not far off now.

We see false prophets abounding, we also hear of those claiming to be Christ - ( but are not ) in Europe a new age Jesus is supposedly waiting in the wings to be announced, Lord something or another, the occasional report of a person in the USA claiming to be the Messiah, more and more we are hearing of such announcements... still Jesus has not returned.

Iniquity is abounding in the world and in the church and the love of Jesus Christ is waxing cold, we see that all about us. Just look at the news reports from this message board - even the world knows iniquity is greatly increasing upon the earth in this hour.

In much of the church, people are no longer tolerating sound doctrine but have itching ears to hear the latest, greatest "revelation"... it matters not that it is all lies.. they just want to hear a gospel that soothes their conscience, that tells them it alright to seek the riches of this world, no need to confess our sins or live holy, forget repentance - the latest revelation is there is no such thing as repentance - that one comes from yet another false prophet and his popularity is on the rise on the christian television networks.

Yes, the altars have been turned into stages that look like Grammy Award shows complete with rock music set to christian lingo. No more pure holy gospel hymns that have the anointing on them and what would bring a true heartfelt repentance - like the Spirit led sermons Tozer and Ravenhill, Charles Finney, Spurgeon or Jonathan Edwards preached!

No, I am told that today many of these wide road false preachers get their sermons off of the internet because they do not hear the Holy Spirit speaking to them. How can they when they have no relationship with God?

Yet in other places around the world - outside of the United States - we see Christians being put to death on a greater scale than ever before in the history of the world. Perhaps because this hasn't happened here in America the church still clings to a pre-tribulation rapture. So the following are scriptures to examine and find out what the bible says about the LORD's return.

It is written:

Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened. and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

AND THEN shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven, and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
- Matthew 24: 29 - 31

_________________
These are the words of Jesus. When shall Jesus return? Immediately after the tribulation of those days. Not before.

My personal belief is of a pretribulation rapture. Reason why I think that is why would God let his children go through the tribulation? But the Bible doesn't support that or any other theory specifically.

Because the Bible says the Believers will go through the tribulation. That's why. Read the thread and you'll find the scriptures are quite clear on this.

 

[ninja007]

When the day of Pentacost came, it was not long before persecution followed. Some of those Believers living during that time thought this is the great tribulation Jesus spoke of in Matthew 24! Perhaps we have missed the rapture! Paul had to correct them and tell them that the man of sin would be revealed first. ( the anti-christ ) In other words, do not be troubled. The rapture has not taken place.

I have a serious concern for Christians who are expecting the rapture to come before the great tribulation because I can find no evidence of a pre-tribulation rapture in the bible. The other night while watching a christian preacher on television who has a magazine called The End times - he stated that although he could not find any evidence of a pre-tribulation rapture - he withheld that information from his readers because he didn't want to be called a false prophet.

His wife had told him that if he taught the church was going through the tribulation he would be called a false prophet. So he prayed about it, studied the scriptures carefully and concluded it was time to tell others what he had found. My husband listened to him and said, Look! That preacher believes the same thing you believe about the rapture! I admit I was surprised because other than Michael Boldea Jr. I have not found any other Pastors / evangelists teaching the catching up "after the tribulation". So let's look at the scriptures on the rapture and I will also add a few of the the scriptures that the End Times minister found and we can study it out together.

Beginning with Mathew 24: 4

And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying I am the Christ, and shall deceive many. And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there shall be famines and pestilences, and earthquakes,. in divers places. All these are the beginning of sorrows.

Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you, and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. But he that shall endure unto the end the same shall be saved.

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations, and then shall the end come.

Matt. 24: 4 -14
______________________
Jesus warned us first, Take heed that no man deceive you. Why? Because the times leading up to and including the Great Tribulation will be a time of great deception upon the earth. The LORD informs us that we shall hear of wars and rumours of wars and again he warns us, "See that you are not troubled" .... all these things must come to pass ........ the end is not yet. ( not time for Him to return yet )

Then as these things come to pass the LORD calls these times the beginnings of sorrows. I believe we are entering those times and the great tribulation is not far off now.

We see false prophets abounding, we also hear of those claiming to be Christ - ( but are not ) in Europe a new age Jesus is supposedly waiting in the wings to be announced, Lord something or another, the occasional report of a person in the USA claiming to be the Messiah, more and more we are hearing of such announcements... still Jesus has not returned.

Iniquity is abounding in the world and in the church and the love of Jesus Christ is waxing cold, we see that all about us. Just look at the news reports from this message board - even the world knows iniquity is greatly increasing upon the earth in this hour.

In much of the church, people are no longer tolerating sound doctrine but have itching ears to hear the latest, greatest "revelation"... it matters not that it is all lies.. they just want to hear a gospel that soothes their conscience, that tells them it alright to seek the riches of this world, no need to confess our sins or live holy, forget repentance - the latest revelation is there is no such thing as repentance - that one comes from yet another false prophet and his popularity is on the rise on the christian television networks.

Yes, the altars have been turned into stages that look like Grammy Award shows complete with rock music set to christian lingo. No more pure holy gospel hymns that have the anointing on them and what would bring a true heartfelt repentance - like the Spirit led sermons Tozer and Ravenhill, Charles Finney, Spurgeon or Jonathan Edwards preached!

No, I am told that today many of these wide road false preachers get their sermons off of the internet because they do not hear the Holy Spirit speaking to them. How can they when they have no relationship with God?

Yet in other places around the world - outside of the United States - we see Christians being put to death on a greater scale than ever before in the history of the world. Perhaps because this hasn't happened here in America the church still clings to a pre-tribulation rapture. So the following are scriptures to examine and find out what the bible says about the LORD's return.

It is written:

Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened. and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

AND THEN shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven, and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
- Matthew 24: 29 - 31

_________________
These are the words of Jesus. When shall Jesus return? Immediately after the tribulation of those days. Not before.

My personal belief is of a pretribulation rapture. Reason why I think that is why would God let his children go through the tribulation? But the Bible doesn't support that or any other theory specifically.

Because the Bible says the Believers will go through the tribulation. That's why. Read the thread and you'll find the scriptures are quite clear on this.

tribulation; all believers go through it. THE TRIBULATION is much different. The purpose of the trib is to punish unbelievers and bring the Jews back to Himself. The Bride of Christ, the Church (all born again believers) are not appointed to wrath. Jesus does not know the day He is coming back. The rapture and Second Coming are 2 very different events.


the Rapture-

“But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.” —1st Thessalonians 4:13-1.



Jer- if we were still on earth during the tribulation, we can know the exact day Jesus returns (Second Coming)- but we cannot- no one knows. Thats just ONE of the reasons we cannot be here.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

How could we know the exact day he returns, Ninja? Even if we were here we would not know - as in Matthew 24:29, 30 it reads:

Matthew 24 29 Immediately after the distress of those days the sun will be darkened and the moon will not give its light the stars will fall from the sky and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.

Matthew 24 30 Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Okay, now tell me how - if we were still here - we would know the exact day of His return - factoring in that we were somehow not martyred during that time, Ninja. I'm not sure what you mean.

 

[ninja007]

How could we know the exact day he returns, Ninja? Even if we were here we would not know - as in Matthew 24:29, 30 it reads:

Matthew 24 29 Immediately after the distress of those days the sun will be darkened and the moon will not give its light the stars will fall from the sky and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.

Matthew 24 30 Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Okay, now tell me how - if we were still here - we would know the exact day of His return - factoring in that we were somehow not martyred during that time, Ninja. I'm not sure what you mean.

The Thomas Ice Collection

 

[ninja007]

as far as Believer's knowing the day- Jesus said only His Father knows the day of His return (Second Coming)- IF Believer's WERE still here when Jesus came back they would know the exact day BECAUSE......... IN REVELATION WE HAVE THE TIMELINE.

Jesus will return exactly 2,555 days after the Peace Treaty is signed by the AC. (7 YEARS times 365 days)- the trib is 7 years long. Jesus returns at the very end of the tribulation. The AC comes to power and sets up a Peace Treaty with Israel and her enemies at the very start of the 7 years. Exactly 3.5 Years in, the AC breaks it and demands to be worshiped in the rebuilt temple in Jerusalem.


The Great Tribulation will begin in the middle of the seven-year period known as the 70th Week of Daniel 9. The evidence for this is found in: Daniel 9:27 which teaches that in the middle of the 70th Week, the Antichrist will begin desolation in association with “the overspreading of abominations.” Jesus referred to this activity of the Antichrist in Matthew 24:15 and Daniel 7: the abomination of desolation standing in the holy place which means he enters into the Temple in Jerusalem.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

@Abiahai

The Whore of Babylon is most likely a metaphor describing the Vatican/ Roman Catholic Church. Revelations says "And the woman which thou sawest is that great city which reigns over the Kings of the Earth".

The Dragon she sits atop of has seven heads. Rome is known to have seven hills.

She is said to have been "clothed in scarlet and purple, and adorned in gold and precious jewels..."

America sits atop seven hills. The Vatican is the place from which the Beast will rule - no question about it - but America is mystery Babylon mentioned in Revelation 18.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

America is Mystery Babylon.

America is the only country that sits upon seven mountains. (ranges)
Appalachian
Rocky Mountains
Cascades
Coastal
Sierra Nevada
Brooks
Alaskan

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

as far as Believer's knowing the day- Jesus said only His Father knows the day of His return (Second Coming)- IF Believer's WERE still here when Jesus came back they would know the exact day BECAUSE......... IN REVELATION WE HAVE THE TIMELINE.

Jesus will return exactly 2,555 days after the Peace Treaty is signed by the AC. (7 YEARS times 365 days)- the trib is 7 years long. Jesus returns at the very end of the tribulation. The AC comes to power and sets up a Peace Treaty with Israel and her enemies at the very start of the 7 years. Exactly 3.5 Years in, the AC breaks it and demands to be worshiped in the rebuilt temple in Jerusalem.


The Great Tribulation will begin in the middle of the seven-year period known as the 70th Week of Daniel 9. The evidence for this is found in: Daniel 9:27 which teaches that in the middle of the 70th Week, the Antichrist will begin desolation in association with “the overspreading of abominations.” Jesus referred to this activity of the Antichrist in Matthew 24:15 and Daniel 7: the abomination of desolation standing in the holy place which means he enters into the Temple in Jerusalem.

Did you read the thread and the scriptures referenced, Ninja? Just wondering. Here is what I believe. For those who say there must be a pre - tribulation rapture - I believe they are just as much a born again Christian as I am. For those who say mid - tribulation - I believe the same - for those who believe Jesus will return immediately AFTER the tribulation as found in Matthew 24:30 - I believe the same. It is not something I want to get people into a dispute over - it is just what I understand it to be - when I read Scripture.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Hell-Mouth

What if the Great Tribulation is related to a systemic development? The Bible certainly suggests that various worldly signs indicate a challenging condition near the end of times.

We know from our modern world news that society scandals such as the Enron insider trading fiasco (an incident involving Wall Street traders engaged in questionable information-leaking management) hint at a ethics control-failure systemic aperture (what Christians might call a 'Hell-Mouth').

Could relevant corruption-inquisition Hollywood (USA) movies such as "The Wolf of Wall Street" (2013) indicate the sort of Tribulation-related modern age developments crystallized in the 'Hell-Mouth' inviting Enron scandal?

To separate conspiracy from spiritual passion, we should think more about why we would want to connect the Great Tribulation with the Rapture. Are we seeking connections for closure? Are we seeking such connections to secure a theoretical prosperity-paranoia Hell-Mouth introduced by scandals such as the Enron incident?





Enron scandal - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

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The Great Tribulation is the Great Tribulation - read the Book of The Revelation of Jesus Christ - the last Book of the Bible, Abishai.