The Great Tribulation - Matthew 24

[Book of Jeremiah]

What is the last trumpet? The Seventh Trumpet. After the two witnesses!

It is written:

And the seventh angel sounded and there were great voices in heaven, Saying, THE KINGDOMS OF THE WORLD ARE BECOME THE KINGDOMS OF OUR LORD, AND OF HIS CHRIST, AND HE SHALL REIGN FOR EVER AND EVER. And the four and twenty elders which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, an worshipped God.

Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art and wast, and art to come, because thou hast taken to thee thy great power and reigned. And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great, and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. And the temple of God was opened in heaven the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

- Revelation 11: 15 - 19
________________________
No servant of the LORD should fear what is coming. We are kept by God and living on this earth for this hour. We were born for such a time as this! The grandstands of heaven are cheering us on, Christians! Yes, this is the greatest hour the saints shall ever see! This is the hour when the night comes the darkest and the stars shine the brightest!

It is a day in which our God will bring forth judgment upon the earth. It is the Revelation of Jesus Christ and this book is glorious! Every time you read the book of Revelation you receive a blessing from God. It is a blessed, holy Book. It is the Revelation of who Jesus Christ is! Who is He? The King of Kings and the LORD of LORDS! Hallelujah!

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

[ame=http://youtu.be/3uXUm8-pS0M]We Shall Behold Him - YouTube[/ame]

 

[PostmodernProph]

No, what I am referring to PostmoderProph, is that the modern church in America has clung to a teaching of a pre-tribulation rapture because they have believed the false teaching that Christians could not be on earth while the judgment of God is poured out.

lets be honest....only a small percentage of Christians pay any attention at all to that millenialist brewhaha.....its just something for Baptists to argue about when they're bored.....

 

[Vandalshandle]

I have a sister-in-law who has been praying for nuclear war for years, since she would then get to heaven faster. Fortunately, in spite of her piety, god does not seem to be listening to her....

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

I have a sister-in-law who has been praying for nuclear war for years, since she would then get to heaven faster. Fortunately, in spite of her piety, god does not seem to be listening to her....

I have never heard of any christian praying for nuclear war, Vandal but I have heard about the satanists doing it. The satanists are actively invoking curses against the USA for a nuclear war strike here. I had saved a video of a televised news report live in which a girl was being arrested for murdering her own mother. She told the news reporters her mother was a satanist and was going to have her killed along with her child I believe and she killed her mother before it could happen. She spoke of being under an awful spiritual attack for days before she decided to do this and that she had no idea her mother was that powerful. She told the news reporters that the satanists were invoking curses to see the USA hit with a nuclear attack. She said it was their main goal for America to see this take place. I find no reason for her to have made up such a story. My spirit did bear witness that she was speaking the truth. After that she disappeared from any further follow up news stories. Just as the media did with the satanist Amanda Barber who outed the satanist covens in NC, Texas, California, and Alaska and confessed to possibly up to 100 murders. She said she had lost count at 20 murders many years ago and had become a satanist at the age of 13. She was the Craigslist killer reported about some time ago. Although the news media reported she was lying and they never found any bodies, Barber reported in an interview that the FBI never once came to visit her and ask for the locations of those satanic sacrifice rituals she had participated in. A shame how the media covers up the truth, isn't it?

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

No, what I am referring to PostmoderProph, is that the modern church in America has clung to a teaching of a pre-tribulation rapture because they have believed the false teaching that Christians could not be on earth while the judgment of God is poured out.

lets be honest....only a small percentage of Christians pay any attention at all to that millenialist brewhaha.....its just something for Baptists to argue about when they're bored.....

I am not Baptist, PostmodernProph. I am Pentacostal. I find there is quite alot of discussion about the rapture and even more so in light of the events taking place in the middle east. Which is why I felt it necessary to address it by scripture - to set the truth straight on the matter so that when persecution hits they do not panic and begin to fear they have missed the rapture. With holograms becoming used more and more - hologram of a ufo over Jerusalem, hologram of a double rainbow behind white house on day of prayer event, holograms used to fool people into believing they saw an angel at a catholic church service, it is important to keep the saints on track with scripture and not sermons of an early departure that isn't going to happen.

Aside from that if a soldier knows he is staying for the hottest part of the battle - he gets ready - if he believes he is getting an early departure and sent home before it begins he could be out shopping for hawaii t shirts and a straw hat. We have to keep it front and center. That is where truth belongs. Amen? Amen.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

For my Christian Brothers and Sisters: Ephesians 6: 10 - 20 - Put it on every day! Keep it on!

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Encouragement for my brethren in Jesus:

[ame=http://youtu.be/v5yZ5OiS7go]Phil Driscoll - Warriors - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

No, what I am referring to PostmoderProph, is that the modern church in America has clung to a teaching of a pre-tribulation rapture because they have believed the false teaching that Christians could not be on earth while the judgment of God is poured out.

lets be honest....only a small percentage of Christians pay any attention at all to that millenialist brewhaha.....its just something for Baptists to argue about when they're bored.....

You sound worried.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Anything else on your mind, Vandal? Run it. I'm waiting.

 

[Vandalshandle]

I have a sister-in-law who has been praying for nuclear war for years, since she would then get to heaven faster. Fortunately, in spite of her piety, god does not seem to be listening to her....

I have never heard of any christian praying for nuclear war, Vandal but I have heard about the satanists doing it. The satanists are actively invoking curses against the USA for a nuclear war strike here. I had saved a video of a televised news report live in which a girl was being arrested for murdering her own mother. She told the news reporters her mother was a satanist and was going to have her killed along with her child I believe and she killed her mother before it could happen. She spoke of being under an awful spiritual attack for days before she decided to do this and that she had no idea her mother was that powerful. She told the news reporters that the satanists were invoking curses to see the USA hit with a nuclear attack. She said it was their main goal for America to see this take place. I find no reason for her to have made up such a story. My spirit did bear witness that she was speaking the truth. After that she disappeared from any further follow up news stories. Just as the media did with the satanist Amanda Barber who outed the satanist covens in NC, Texas, California, and Alaska and confessed to possibly up to 100 murders. She said she had lost count at 20 murders many years ago and had become a satanist at the age of 13. She was the Craigslist killer reported about some time ago. Although the news media reported she was lying and they never found any bodies, Barber reported in an interview that the FBI never once came to visit her and ask for the locations of those satanic sacrifice rituals she had participated in. A shame how the media covers up the truth, isn't it?

Well, I suspect that my sister-in-law, who has been a member of a fundamentalist church for almost 50 years, and who has pretty much alienated the entire family with her beliefs, would take exception to your comparing her to Satanists. However, since I have been among those that she has alienated, you may be right....

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

You'd be amazed at how many satanists have infiltrated American churches, Vandal. It's over run with them in there, many in the pulpits even. The lack of discernment is truly astonishing. Of course as you know, I was not referring to your sister in law at all but rather to the matter of satanists in America whose main agenda now is focused in on seeing that nuclear attack through. Little do they understand that the hand of God is going to cover his own children and what they have dug out is the very pit they shall fall into. Headlong I might add. Speaking of satanists in the churches though. There is one way you can identify them. They are fearful around spirit filled believers who operate in the gifts. Why? They are perishing and they know it. They also know that people such as myself have all authority over Lucifer and their works so there's that too. Here's the scriptures that explains that one:

Philippians 1:28 without being frightened in any way by those who oppose you. This is a sign to them that they will be destroyed, but that you will be saved--and that by God.

Context

Be Worthy of the Gospel
27Only conduct yourselves in a manner worthy of the gospel of Christ, so that whether I come and see you or remain absent, I will hear of you that you are standing firm in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel; 28in no way alarmed by your opponents-- which is a sign of destruction for them, but of salvation for you, and that too, from God. 29For to you it has been granted for Christ's sake, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake,…

Cross References

John 16:8
When he comes, he will prove the world to be in the wrong about sin and righteousness and judgment:

2 Thessalonians 1:5
All this is evidence that God's judgment is right, and as a result you will be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are suffering.

Treasury of Scripture

And in nothing terrified by your adversaries: which is to them an evident token of perdition, but to you of salvation, and that of God.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

This is what I cannot figure out, Vandal. Why would anyone fear Satan who is a Christian? He is a defeated foe! He has absolutely no authority over the believers life and neither do his workers! The keys of the kingdom have been given to the believer. All authority to trample serpents and scorpions and over all the power of the enemy has been given to the born again believer. ( Luke 10:19 ) The full armor of God has been given to the believer ( Ephesians 6: 10 - 18 ) The Word of God has been given to the believer. The baptism of the Holy Spirit has been given to the believer! The Name of Jesus has been given to the Believer! Whatever we ask for In His Name is granted! What more could anyone ask for? Satan has been put under our feet because of Jesus Christ going to the cross - defeating death, hell and the grave and ascending to heaven where he is seated at the right hand of the father and makes intercession for the saints day and night! What more could a Believer possibly ask for?! Seriously!!!

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

The Christians fearlessness is like a flashing neon sign that tells the wicked - you're perishing! You're perishing!

Yes their fearfulness is a sign of their perdition, while your fearlessness, Christian, is a sign to them of your salvation! You can take that one to the bank! It's the truth!

 

[PostmodernProph]

No, what I am referring to PostmoderProph, is that the modern church in America has clung to a teaching of a pre-tribulation rapture because they have believed the false teaching that Christians could not be on earth while the judgment of God is poured out.

lets be honest....only a small percentage of Christians pay any attention at all to that millenialist brewhaha.....its just something for Baptists to argue about when they're bored.....

I am not Baptist, PostmodernProph. I am Pentacostal. I find there is quite alot of discussion about the rapture and even more so in light of the events taking place in the middle east. Which is why I felt it necessary to address it by scripture - to set the truth straight on the matter so that when persecution hits they do not panic and begin to fear they have missed the rapture. With holograms becoming used more and more - hologram of a ufo over Jerusalem, hologram of a double rainbow behind white house on day of prayer event, holograms used to fool people into believing they saw an angel at a catholic church service, it is important to keep the saints on track with scripture and not sermons of an early departure that isn't going to happen.

Aside from that if a soldier knows he is staying for the hottest part of the battle - he gets ready - if he believes he is getting an early departure and sent home before it begins he could be out shopping for hawaii t shirts and a straw hat. We have to keep it front and center. That is where truth belongs. Amen? Amen.

I belong to an a-millenniest denomination......basically Jesus is coming back and Christians will rise up to meet him.....whether Judgement Day is that day or I go back with him to heaven until something else happens, a millennium is only a problem for unbelievers....

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

I am not familiar with a millenniest denomination, PostmodernProph. If you are a born again Christian according to John 3:16 you are a believer who has your name written in the lambs book of life according to Luke 10:20. That is what matters in the scope of eternity. Not whether we believe Jesus will return pre-tribulation, mid-tribulation, or After the tribulation. My only purpose in doing the thread ( this is my second - I did one approximately a year ago or less ) was to let my christian brethren know that when the persecution begins here they should not panic and believe they have "missed the rapture" nor should they use that teaching to justify themselves in receiving a mark in their hand or forehead in order to buy, sell or trade. That is all.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Question for those believing in a pre-tribulation rapture. If those who are martyred for Christ because they refuse to deny the Word of God and refuse to take the mark in their hand or in their forehead are the first resurrection......... how can you then be raptured 7 years before them? These are of the first resurrection are the choice saints that rule and reign with Jesus Christ for a thousand years. The finest of the wheat as Watchman Nee would say.

If you are a choice servant why would you be wisked away into the air before the first resurrection and be denied the privledge of ruling and reigning with Jesus Christ for 1000 years ? Does that even make sense? No. It doesn't. Any servant worth their salt would refuse such an offer hoping for a better resurrection! The first one! Read Hebrews! Hold on! I will get the scripture for you.

* Better yet, if the martyred for Christ are the first resurrection it is impossible that anything went before they did! Understand?

That's an easy one. The martyred for Christ during the trib. are the last resurrected, not the first.
There have been several resurrections already, including Christ and those who favored God that were in Abraham's bosom.
The headless martyrs are those who become followers of Christ after the rapture and during the tribulation period. < Which the church (those in Christ) are not appointed to. Which is why the church is not mentioned again after the 3rd. chapter in Rev. We are out of here.

If there is no rapture, then we will be appointed to God's wrath. So, which is the truth?
If you are correct then this is not:

1 Thessalonians 5:9
For God chose to save us through our Lord Jesus Christ, not to pour out his anger ... For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord ...

Here's the problem with denying the rapture. Christ is about to make 2 appearances. At 2 different times, in 2 completely different descriptions.
One in the clouds, one when His foot touches down on the Mt. of Olives. In one description He leaves, in the other He stays.

First: Meeting in the air:

For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God; and the dead in Christ shall rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and thus shall we always be with the Lord. Therefore, comfort one another with these words." (I Thessalonians 4:13-18).

The key word in this appearing is up. There is also shouting, and trumpeting and comfort for those who understand it. And up we go. The time frame for this appearance is 11/100 of a second. There is no mention of Christ touching earth at all. And there is no comfort in believing that we will be appointed to the wrath of God. What's comforting about having your head removed? The "Left Behind" series is correct, and accepted by the majority of Bible scholars.

2nd. His return to earth:

Zech. 14: 1-4Then the Lord will go out and fight against those nations, as he fights in the day of battle. On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south.

The key words here are, feet will stand on mt., earthquake, battle. All taking longer that 11/100 of a second.

In the first He removes His bride from danger. In the second, He fights on behalf of Israel, with the (formerly caught up) saints behind him, sets up His kingdom, and never leaves. There is nothing caught upward in this event.

If, as you believe, He is coming down in the first scenario, to end the tribulation, why are His saints going up? To whom? Why doesn't the remnant that would be left of His followers, just meet Him on the Mt of Olives at the end of the tribulation?
And why do you believe that we are appointed to God's wrath?
Do you at least believe Him concerning the rapture of Enoch, Elijah and those resurrected with Him after He was crucified and returned with those in Abraham's bosom?

Matthew 27:52-53 The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection they entered the holy city and appeared to many..

Do you simply not believe in rapture, or that it just won't happen for our sakes?

If there is a point of contention concerning the next rapture, I tend to agree with the consensus of our most heavy weight Bible researchers who have studied the Bible their whole lives and individually come to the same conclusion.

You and I don't agree on this, Jere. Thing is, it either will or will not happen regardless of a lack of a meeting of the minds. If your location changes in a twinkling of the eye, you'll have to have me over to your mansion for dinner. If we are starving to death and dying from radiation and plagues here on earth, I will admit I was wrong and give you my last crust of bread.

 

[GISMYS]

RAPTURE=Therefore be watchful all the time, praying that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will happen, and to stand before the Son of Man. luke 21:36

 

[The Irish Ram]

Worthy to what? Escape all these things that will happen. The only way those in Christ will escape God's wrath < things that will happen during the tribulation, is to die a natural death, or be taken out of the wrath to come while we are still alive, in the twinkling of an eye. <snatched quickly, not gathered.

Jere, I want to address the comment you keep making about the narrow road as opposed to a wider road. The road is wide enough to encompass those in Christ. It is not for those more in Christ than those lesser in Christ. What about those that Christ asked His Father to forgive for His sake while He was on the cross? What road do they take?

The narrow road has nothing to do with doctrine, or our righteousness, but is available for us to take based on our faith that Christ is who He says He is. Our Redeemer, our Savior. The Son of God. Our Lord. And because of Him, we are sin free and acceptable in God's eyes to have access to that road. That is what determines the width necessary.
Look at that road, and those in Christ. Now look at the populations of this earth. Now you see why a wider road isn't necessary.

John 6:47 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

What percentage of the earth's population are believers in Christ, and what percentage does that road not pertain to? Currently, the road needs to be wide enough for 33% of people on this earth. It is as wide as God needs it to be.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Question for those believing in a pre-tribulation rapture. If those who are martyred for Christ because they refuse to deny the Word of God and refuse to take the mark in their hand or in their forehead are the first resurrection......... how can you then be raptured 7 years before them? These are of the first resurrection are the choice saints that rule and reign with Jesus Christ for a thousand years. The finest of the wheat as Watchman Nee would say.

If you are a choice servant why would you be wisked away into the air before the first resurrection and be denied the privledge of ruling and reigning with Jesus Christ for 1000 years ? Does that even make sense? No. It doesn't. Any servant worth their salt would refuse such an offer hoping for a better resurrection! The first one! Read Hebrews! Hold on! I will get the scripture for you.

* Better yet, if the martyred for Christ are the first resurrection it is impossible that anything went before they did! Understand?

That's an easy one. The martyred for Christ during the trib. are the last resurrected, not the first.
There have been several resurrections already, including Christ and those who favored God that were in Abraham's bosom.
The headless martyrs are those who become followers of Christ after the rapture and during the tribulation period. < Which the church (those in Christ) are not appointed to. Which is why the church is not mentioned again after the 3rd. chapter in Rev. We are out of here.

If there is no rapture, then we will be appointed to God's wrath. So, which is the truth?
If you are correct then this is not:

1 Thessalonians 5:9
For God chose to save us through our Lord Jesus Christ, not to pour out his anger ... For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord ...

Here's the problem with denying the rapture. Christ is about to make 2 appearances. At 2 different times, in 2 completely different descriptions.
One in the clouds, one when His foot touches down on the Mt. of Olives. In one description He leaves, in the other He stays.

First: Meeting in the air:


The key word in this appearing is up. There is also shouting, and trumpeting and comfort for those who understand it. And up we go. The time frame for this appearance is 11/100 of a second. There is no mention of Christ touching earth at all. And there is no comfort in believing that we will be appointed to the wrath of God. What's comforting about having your head removed? The "Left Behind" series is correct, and accepted by the majority of Bible scholars.

2nd. His return to earth:

Zech. 14: 1-4Then the Lord will go out and fight against those nations, as he fights in the day of battle. On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south.

The key words here are, feet will stand on mt., earthquake, battle. All taking longer that 11/100 of a second.

In the first He removes His bride from danger. In the second, He fights on behalf of Israel, with the (formerly caught up) saints behind him, sets up His kingdom, and never leaves. There is nothing caught upward in this event.

If, as you believe, He is coming down in the first scenario, to end the tribulation, why are His saints going up? To whom? Why doesn't the remnant that would be left of His followers, just meet Him on the Mt of Olives at the end of the tribulation?
And why do you believe that we are appointed to God's wrath?
Do you at least believe Him concerning the rapture of Enoch, Elijah and those resurrected with Him after He was crucified and returned with those in Abraham's bosom?

Matthew 27:52-53 The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection they entered the holy city and appeared to many..

Do you simply not believe in rapture, or that it just won't happen for our sakes?

If there is a point of contention concerning the next rapture, I tend to agree with the consensus of our most heavy weight Bible researchers who have studied the Bible their whole lives and individually come to the same conclusion.

You and I don't agree on this, Jere. Thing is, it either will or will not happen regardless of a lack of a meeting of the minds. If your location changes in a twinkling of the eye, you'll have to have me over to your mansion for dinner. If we are starving to death and dying from radiation and plagues here on earth, I will admit I was wrong and give you my last crust of bread.

Not according to scripture, Irish Ram. The bible clearly identifies them as the first resurrection. Those which remain shall be caught up at the sound of the last trumpet according to scripture. The bible clearly states the last trumpet is the 7th trumpet which is immediately AFTER The tribulation of those days which Jesus told us of concerning when he would return. We can agree that those who endure until the end the same shall be saved. So let us prepare our hearts and be ready to do so.

***

If you will read my response to PostmodernProph, you will find that I provided the scripture which clearly states that those who were sealed by God were not touched by any of the judgments that fell upon the world during the Great Tribulation.

We are kept by the seal of God while we endure until the end IN the Great Tribulation. Not wisked away before it takes place.

The early church was martyred for their faith and so will the end times church be martyed for their faith. I'm sorry that your Pastor has misinformed you, Irish Ram. We must go by what the bible says. Not the words of a man.

Jesus said, He who endures unto the end the same shall be saved. Who did Jesus say this to? His followers. Why? Because we will be here until the end.

When is the end? Jesus told us. Immediately AFTER the tribulation - he shall appear in the clouds - the elect shall be gathered from the four corners of the earth. amen.