The Great Tribulation - Matthew 24

[Book of Jeremiah]

RAPTURE=Therefore be watchful all the time, praying that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will happen, and to stand before the Son of Man. luke 21:36

Yes, brother. This confirms that not all who profess Jesus Christ shall have the seal of God in their foreheads during the Great Tribulation. ( Revelatiion 9: 4) God shows himself pure with the pure and shrewd with the shrewd. Does He not?

The wide road church, the backsliders, those who were part of the falling away, the great apostasy, those who misrepresented God and His Word, those who attacked and mocked the servants of God who warned them of the narrow path and yet they refused all warnings - these people are judged with the world during the great tribulation. These are the foolish virgins, GISMY.

Indeed, pray that you be found worthy. We must all pray that we be found worthy. How we walk today is what will determine what the LORD shall do in that hour. See Ezekiel 9 for a confirmation of those who are marked by God. Who is marked? Those who weep and mourn over the sin. Blessed are those who mourn.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Worthy to what? Escape all these things that will happen. The only way those in Christ will escape God's wrath < things that will happen during the tribulation, is to die a natural death, or be taken out of the wrath to come while we are still alive, in the twinkling of an eye.

Jere, I want to address the comment you keep making about the narrow road as opposed to a wider road. The road is wide enough to encompass those in Christ. It is not for those more in Christ than those lesser in Christ. What about those that Christ asked His Father to forgive for His sake while He was on the cross? What road do they take?

The narrow road has nothing to do with doctrine, or our righteousness, but is available for us to take based on our faith that Christ is who He says He is. Our Redeemer, our Savior.
Look at that road, and those in Christ. Now look at the population of this earth. Now you see why a wider road isn't necessary.

John 6:47 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

What percentage of the earth are believers in Christ, and what percentage of the earth's population does that road not pertain to? It is as wide as God needs it to be.

You are mistaken. Worthy to receive the seal of God as those who were marked by God in Ezekiel 9, Irish Ram, and as those who will be sealed with the seal of God in their foreheads in Revelation 9:4

It is written:

And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree, but only those men which had not the seal of God in their foreheads. - Revelation 9: 4

Revelation 9: 4 is the 5th trumpet and the church ( the elect ) still have two more trumpets to await before we come to the promise of Jesus found in Matthew 24: 29, 30, 31 which reads as follows -

It is written:

Imediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: AND THEN SHALL APPEAR THE SIGN OF THE SON OF MAN IN HEAVEN: AND THEN SHALL THE TRIBES OF THE EARTH MOURN, AND THEY SHALL SEE THE SON OF MAN COMING IN THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN WITH POWER AND WITH GREAT GLORY. AND HE SHALL SEND HIS ANGELS WITH A GREAT SOUND OF A TRUMPET, AND THEY SHALL GATHER THE ELECT FROM THE FOUR WINDS, FROM ONE END OF EARTH TO THE OTHER. - Matthew 24:29, 30,31

Whose Words are these? These are the Words of Jesus Christ.

The church shall indeed see the Great Tribulation. It would be wise to prepare for it. There were 5 wise virgins and 5 foolish virgins. The last trumpet is when the elect are caught up. The last trumpet is the 7th trumpet which is immediately AFTER the tribulation. See the scriptures I posted for yourself and do a bible study. I've provided the scriptures. You can receive the truth or you can reject it. I cannot make you believe scripture.

 

[GISMYS]

LOL!!! YOU GUYS CAN PRAY THAT YOU BE LEFT BEHIND ON RAPTURE DAY BUT WHY??? I WILL BE CAUGHT UP TO MEET JESUS IN THE CLOUDS AND GO WIH HIMAND ALL BELIEVERS TO THE MARRSAGE SUPPER AND THE RETURN WUTH JESUS SEVEN YEARS LATER AND RULE AND REIGN WITH HIM HERE ON EARTH.==14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so will God bring with Him those also who sleep in Jesus.

15 For this we say unto you by the Word of the Lord: that we who are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord, shall not precede those who are asleep.

16 For the Lord Himself shall descend from Heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God; and the dead in Christ shall rise first;

17 then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.
1 THESSALIOANS 4:14-18

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

The only ones who rule and reign with Jesus Christ are those who are martyred because they refuse to worship the beast, refuse to take the mark in their forehead or in their hand, they are beheaded because they refuse to deny Jesus Christ. These are the only believers that shall rule and reign with Jesus Christ for a 1000 years and the rest of the church will be asleep during that thousand years.

It is written:

And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not bowed down and worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received the mark upon their foreheads or in their hands, and they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

- Revelation 20: 4, 5, 6,

_________________

If you want to be part of the first resurrection which is called blessed and holy and who the second death has no power over? You are going to be martyred for Jesus Christ during the Tribulation. Not as a result of your having died from a scorpion, locust or a hailstone! But because you refused to deny the Word of Jesus Christ, you refused to bow down and worship the beast, refused to take his mark on your foreheads or in your hands and you loved not your life unto the death! Otherwise? You'll be asleep during that thousand year reign.

No one is getting raptured until AFTER the Great Tribulation. This IS the first resurrection spoke of in Rev. 20: 4, 5, 6 and there is no resurrection ( catching away ) prior to the FIRST. First means first.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Believe what you wish, Gismy. I will believe the Word of God. I've already decided to be a part of that first resurrection. That is the desire of my heart. God knows it and I have faith in Him He shall grant me that desire when the time comes. That is one more crown I can cast at the feet of Jesus! Praise God!

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

p.s. no coward ever won heaven.

* Either you believe in the power of God to endure unto the end or you believe in your own strength which you are living out of today.
The latter will not carry you through. Have faith in God and put your Trust in Jesus Christ Alone!


http://biblehub.com/philippians/3-10.htm


Philippians 3:10
I want to know Christ--yes, to know the power of his resurrection and participation in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death.

 

[The Irish Ram]

You don't have to make me believe anything, Jere. I can read as well as you can. You like to endure. You work to enhance Christ's work on the cross, and you feel we are appointed to God's wrath. And FTR, those sealed during the trib. are messianic Jews. There isn't a lot we do agree on. And one Pastor has never been able to sway me. 100 that agree will though.
I prefer grace over works, I prefer to make Christ 100% responsible for my next location. Any thing less frustrates God.
You work and pray it's good enough. I work and dance because I know He was good enough.

Happily we have been able to forge a friendship, aside from doctrinal differences. And that is scriptural. Personal convictions should not hamper harmony among Christians. If you believe one thing for Christ's sake and I another, then both are righteous in God's eyes. It is the heart, not the mind that determines our status as children of God. It is faith, not knowledge that is counted righteous.
Remember that Peter wasn't Paul and Paul wasn't Peter and they didn't always agree on doctrine. And yet neither were false prophets or teachers. They were both righteous in God's eyes because of their faith in Christ.

We'll either be raptured or not. Your belief or mine won't change that fact.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

You don't have to make me believe anything, Jere. I can read as well as you can. You like to endure. You work to enhance Christ's work on the cross, and you feel we are appointed to God's wrath. Those sealed during the trib. are messianic Jews. There isn't a lot we do agree on. And one Pastor has never been able to sway me. 100 will though. I prefer grace over works, I prefer to make Christ 100% responsible for my next location. Any thing less frustrates God.
You work and pray it's good enough. I work and dance because I know He was good enough.

Happily we have been able to forge a friendship, aside from doctrinal differences. And that is scriptural. Personal convictions should not hamper harmony among Christians. If you believe one thing for Christ's sake and I another, then both are righteous in God's eyes. It is the heart, not the mind that determines our status of children of God. It is faith, not knowledge that is counted righteous.
Remember that Peter wasn't Paul and Paul wasn't Peter and they didn't always agree on doctrine. And yet neither were false prophets or teachers. They were both righteous in God's eyes because of their faith in Christ.

That is impossible. These are called the elect by Jesus Christ. See the definition of the elect in the New Testament Scriptures, Irish Ram. The elect are not the Jews but the born again believers who include born again Jews which endure unto the end.

False teachers abound in the modern churches of America, Irish Ram. You have misunderstood grace. It is understandable because Grace has been taught as a license to sin in the modern churches. It is what John in Revelation defined as the Laeodicean Church. See Revelation 3:14. Which is why I have no part of it other than to warn those still inside.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Who are the elect of God?

It is written:

Colossians 3:12
Romans 8:33
Romans 11: 7

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering. - Colossians 3: 12

Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? - Romans 8: 33

What then? Israel hath no obtained that which he seeketh for, but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded. - Romans 11: 7

_______________________
Who are the elect of God? Those born again believers that endure unto the end. The same shall be gathered immediately AFTER the tribulation as Jesus told us in Matthew 24. Jesus warned his followers 5 times in Matthew Chapter 24 Do not be deceived! Yet here we are even before the Great Tribulation begins and the church is living in such deception they cannot even see what is plainly written in scripture. Instead they want to accuse the servants of God of works! Father, please open the eyes of your people! In Jesus name, I ask it!

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Revelation 3:17 You say, 'I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.' But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked.

Context

Message to the Church in Laodicea
&#8230;16'So because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of My mouth. 17'Because you say, "I am rich, and have become wealthy, and have need of nothing," and you do not know that you are wretched and miserable and poor and blind and naked, 18I advise you to buy from Me gold refined by fire so that you may become rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself, and that the shame of your nakedness will not be revealed; and eye salve to anoint your eyes so that you may see.&#8230;

_________________________________
Those of you in the Laodicean church need to repent and return to your first love, Jesus Christ. Otherwise, you shall one day hear Him say, Depart from me thou worker of iniquity, I never knew you.

This concludes my thread on the Great Tribulation according to Matthew 24. May the LORD bless you all. Goodnight.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Good question. The elect has been used to described angels, believers, Jews.

Is there anything in the Bible about one of the above elect being fooled into trusting a peace treaty?
Is there an elect that all nations will attack?

 

[GISMYS]

YES!!! MILLIONS WILL SEE THE ERROR OF THEIR WAYS THE DAY AFTER THE RAPTURE OF BELIEVERS,MILLIONS WILL BE SAVED BUT THOSE MUST TRY TO LIVE THROUGH THE TRIBULATION YEARS UNDER ANTI-CHRIST RULE!!! Thus pray that you be counted worthy to escape the wrath and judgments of GOD!!!

 

[The Irish Ram]

I have to run. You can try to enlighten me when I get home.

 

[The Irish Ram]

YES!!! MILLIONS WILL SEE THE ERROR OF THEIR WAYS THE DAY AFTER THE RAPTURE OF BELIEVERS,MILLIONS WILL BE SAVED BUT THOSE MUST TRY TO LIVE THROUGH THE TRIBULATION YEARS UNDER ANTI-CHRIST RULE!!! Thus pray that you be counted worth to escape the wrath and judgments of GOD!!!

And Amen Gis, you are right.

 

[The Irish Ram]

You don't have to make me believe anything, Jere. I can read as well as you can. You like to endure. You work to enhance Christ's work on the cross, and you feel we are appointed to God's wrath. Those sealed during the trib. are messianic Jews. There isn't a lot we do agree on. And one Pastor has never been able to sway me. 100 will though. I prefer grace over works, I prefer to make Christ 100% responsible for my next location. Any thing less frustrates God.
You work and pray it's good enough. I work and dance because I know He was good enough.

Happily we have been able to forge a friendship, aside from doctrinal differences. And that is scriptural. Personal convictions should not hamper harmony among Christians. If you believe one thing for Christ's sake and I another, then both are righteous in God's eyes. It is the heart, not the mind that determines our status of children of God. It is faith, not knowledge that is counted righteous.
Remember that Peter wasn't Paul and Paul wasn't Peter and they didn't always agree on doctrine. And yet neither were false prophets or teachers. They were both righteous in God's eyes because of their faith in Christ.

That is impossible. These are called the elect by Jesus Christ. See the definition of the elect in the New Testament Scriptures, Irish Ram. The elect are not the Jews but the born again believers who include born again Jews which endure unto the end.

False teachers abound in the modern churches of America, Irish Ram. You have misunderstood grace. It is understandable because Grace has been taught as a license to sin in the modern churches. It is what John in Revelation defined as the Laeodicean Church. See Revelation 3:14. Which is why I have no part of it other than to warn those still inside.

If I understand anything I understand these two things, "unmerited favor", and "gift".
You judge grace as a license to sin. That is not scriptural.
Here is Paul to tell us why in Romans 6:1-2

&#8220;What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?&#8221;

The idea that a person could &#8220;trust in Jesus Christ&#8221; for salvation and then go on living just as he/she lived before, is absolutely foreign to the Bible Jere.
Believers in Christ are:
new creations (2 Corinthians 5:17).
the Holy Spirit changes us from producing the acts of the flesh (Galatians 5:19-21) to producing the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23).

The Christian life is changed because the Christian is changed. If there is an area that requires endurance to avoid falling back into, God is strongest in the areas we are weakest, so rely on Him, not self.
If grace is a license to sin, how odd that God is so fond of it. He prefers it over filthy rags of self righteousness that come from works unto salvation.

Not sure what you are referring to as impossible, but if it is the differences Peter and Paul had, it is indeed possible. Peter addressed the Jew. Paul addressed the Gentile. Circumcise or not? Turns out neither are important. But the passage below shows what is:

Eph.2:11 Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called &#8220;the uncircumcision&#8221; by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands&#8212; 12 remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility 15 by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, 16 and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility.

Col.2:13 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, 14 by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross. 15 He disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame, by triumphing over them in him. 16 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath.

Be careful about labeling/judging people who don't follow your "ministry". You'd end up sending some of God's very best to hell, because most of His very best preach the rapture, and have brought untold thousands to Christ. Hagee is a generational preacher, a blessing God has bestowed on His family. Odd that God would continue the blessing of one of your proclaimed false prophets, like Hagee, or Van Impe, or Prince........ Either you are wrong or God is blessing the wrong people.

As for the elect, The words elect, election, and elected are from the Greek eklektos (picked out, selected, or chosen) and ekloge (a picking out, or selection).
The elect are those chosen by God. Election is God's act of choosing. Christ Himself is one of the elect.

Here are a few examples of who the elect are according to context. As you can see they do not all refer to Christ's church:
Paul speaks of the "elect angels" (1 Timothy 5:21).
Peter, quoting Isaiah 28:16, refers to Christ as a "chief cornerstone, elect, precious" (1 Peter 2:6).
Christ is the "Elect One" (Isaiah 42:1), and members of His body-the church-are elected in Him.
The nation of Israel is God's elect (Isaiah 45:4; 65:9,22).



You are a big fan of Charles Spurgeon. I'll leave you in his hands:

It strikes me that the tokens of union are much more prominent than the tokens of division. But what are they? First there is a union in judgment upon all vital matters. I converse with a spiritual man, and no matter what he calls himself, when we talk of sin, pardon, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, and such like themes, we are agreed. We speak of our blessed Lord. My friend says that Jesus is fair and lovely: so say I. He says that he has nothing else to trust to but the precious blood; nor have I anything beside. I tell him that I find myself a poor, weak creature; he laments the same. I live in his house a little while: we pray together at the family altar, you could not tell which it was that prayed, Calvinist or Armenian, we pray so exactly alike; and when we open the hymn-book, very likely if he happens to be a Wesleyan he chooses to sing, "Jesus, lover of my soul." I will sing it, and then next morning he will sing with me, "Rock of ages, cleft for me." If the Spirit of God be in us, we are all agreed upon great points. Let me say that among true saints the points of union even in matters of judgment are ninety-nine, and the points of difference are only as one. (Metropolitan Tabernacle Pulpit, Vol. 12, p. 5-6)

"Our Father." That then, includes those of God's children who differ from us in their doctrine. Ah! There are some that differ from us as wide as the poles; but yet they are God's children. Come, Mr. Bigot, do not kneel down, and say, "My Father," but "Our Father." "If you please, I cannot put in Mr. So-and-So, for I think he is a heretic."

Put him in, sir; God has put him in, and you must put him in too, and say, "Our Father." Is it not remarkable how very much alike all God's people are upon their knees? Some time ago at a prayer-meeting I called upon two brothers in Christ to pray one after another, the one a Wesleyan and the other a strong Calvinist, and the Wesleyan prayed the most Calvinistic prayer of the two, I do believe - at least, I could not tell which was which. I listened to see if I could not discern some peculiarity even in their phraseology; but there was none. "Saints in prayer appear as one." (The New Park Street Pulpit, Vol. IV, p. 390, Sept. 12, 1858, bold added)

God Bless hon.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

God bless you, Sister Irish Ram. I believe that those that endure until the end shall be saved. I believe if you and Brother Gismy refuse the mark and endure until the end you shall be saved.

If you will read the thread on George Mueller - that great saint who took in hundreds of orphans and prayed his finances in - you shall see on the Wiki page link provided that Mueller was a post tribulation believer also. He believed Jesus would return AFTER the tribulation, not before. I'm in good company. I do not mind that you and brother do not believe me and I wish God's best for you both. I seek to be at peace with all men and pray God's best for you both.


I also believe Jesus when He said the tax collector and the prostitute would enter into heaven before the Pharisee and self righteous would. May the LORD bless us all with the grace of humility the publican had. Amen.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Well thanks for the vote of confidence concerning mine and Gis's future. Thing is, our names were written in the book of life when we accepted Christ. We won't be here to receive the mark. If post trib is accurate, then we will indeed face the wrath of God upon the earth during the trib. God promised that believers are not appointed to God's wrath. Here is Lester Sumrall to explain why:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPQ48KIqURE]Lester Sumrall Prophecy Rapture End Times Study - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

I love Brother Sumrall but as I told you before I agree with George Mueller ( also spelled Muller ) who was the prayer warrior who took in many orphans. He lived a life of faith by prayer and the Holy Ghost revealed the same thing to George that He revealed to me back in 1989. Brother George Mueller believed the church was going to be here for the Great Tribulation. At least those who are living in that day and hour. I believe the same thing and find the holy scriptures do confirm it to be true.

I love Brother Sumrall and many other ministers who believed in a pre-tribulation rapture and have since gone on to be with the LORD. As I understand it many of the ministers who believed in the pre-tribulation rapture were part of the Word of Faith movement and that was the doctrine they all settled on. It is doubtful they spent much time studying it out as it was a given that this was the way it would be ( back then ).

I wish you and Brother Gismy the best and find no reason to further discuss this subject with either of you as it is evident the topic troubles you both. That was never my intention. Have a blessed evening, Sister.
*
One thing the Holy Spirit pointed out to me in your mentioning that you and Gismy have your names written in the lambs book of life, Irish Ram. You have to overcome to make sure your names are not "blotted out" from that book. Otherwise they will be. Blotted out means removed. Read the scripture in revelation and study it out for what Jesus had to say about this.

http://biblehub.com/revelation/3-5.htm

He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Context

Message to the Church in Sardis
&#8230;4'But you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their garments; and they will walk with Me in white, for they are worthy. 5'He who overcomes will thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels. 6'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.'

Cross References

Exodus 32:32
But now, please forgive their sin--but if not, then blot me out of the book you have written."

Exodus 32:33
The LORD replied to Moses, "Whoever has sinned against me I will blot out of my book.

Psalm 69:28
May they be blotted out of the book of life and not be listed with the righteous.

Matthew 10:32
"Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father.

________________________________________

As you can see in Exodus 32:33 The LORD said to Moses, "Whoever sinned against me I will blot out of my book."

Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever. He didn't come to do away with the Law but to fulfill it.

Which is why Jesus said in Revelation 3: 5, He who overcomes will thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels. 'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.'

In other words, if you do not overcome in this world - be it a communist take over where they threaten to kill you or your children if you don't deny Jesus or whether it be your going through the great tribulation and deciding to take the mark of the beast so you can buy, sell and trade - your name will most definitely be blotted out of his book. The crown of life is only for the overcomers, Irish Ram. I'm so sorry your church didn't teach you this but this is the written word of God. I cannot soothe your conscience by telling you what is not in there. What I can tell you is that he that endures unto the end the same shall be saved. Seek the Lord early while He can be found.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

To Sister Ram and Brother Gismy - you will note that there is precedent for God blotting out the names of His people in His book. Moses spoke of it, so did the LORD, which is why I included those verses. Jesus is letting us know that if we do not overcome we will have our names erased out of the Lamb's book of Life. No one taking the mark of the beast can enter into heaven. Saved or unsaved. No Christian can live an unholy life here on earth and expect heaven later. That is a presumptious sin to say the very least. Eli's sons were killed for the sin of presuming upon the grace of God. What else could one call it? Blessed are the poor in spirit. It is right to mourn over our sins and not presume upon the grace of God here. A crown is not handed the winner until he finishes the race and crosses the finish line. Otherwise he receives no prize.
*
I believe Brother Gismy believes Christians can lose their salvation through living sinful lives. He just was not aware the rapture was AFTER the tribulation and not before. He is not alone. Many born again believers do not believe the church will be here for the tribulation.