The Bible. Myth or Reality?

[GreatestIam]

You are making positive statements about God.
Do you have any moral responsibility to prove your statements?

I think if you have the ability to defend your beliefs and faith you should. I am not going to say I am a Biblical scholar, or know all the answers. I'm sure there are many more people out there more educated, spiritually mature and able to defend the faith. I do however feel compelled to share my experiences and what I have learned during my Christian walk, so, at this point, I wish I could do a better job at proving my statements. I hope that through my words, people will see some validity in it and perhaps look into it more on their own. Like planting a seed.

To answer your question, no, I would not say I have a moral responsibility to prove anything I have to say.

Would it be best and fair if I did? Yes.

However, if everyone waited to be ready to defend every single argument against God, not many people would be out there talking about Christ. The simple truth of the Gospel rings true for many people immediately. But for people like yourself, yes, you should be discussing a matter as serious as this with someone more informed than myself. I will admit to that.

I have a moral responsibility to speak truth, and, if I make errors, that is between myself and God. I don't mind being challenged, but, ultimately, I only have to answer to God.

"To answer your question, no, I would not say I have a moral responsibility to prove anything I have to say.

Would it be best and fair if I did? Yes."

-----------

So you are consciously doing an unfair and immoral thing and do not care.

Thanks for showing how your religion has corrupted your morals.

It is not a wonder then how you have run from any of the moral issues I have tried to engage you in.

Thanks for showing all that read this how corrupt you are and how you prove this quote to be true.

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. Voltaire

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

A question on the so called sacrifice of Jesus.

Having another innocent person suffer for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral.


Do you agree?

Jesus is not another person. Jesus is God. So, it's a "self sacrifice", so, no I don't agree.

Unnecessary suicide is moral to you is it?

Yes it was unnecessary because God could have forgiven sin without it and there are a few scriptures where God himself says that repentance is all that is required.

How in hell do you see God sacrificing himself to himself to appease his own wrath a sacrifice?

Sacrifice has a lose of some kind. In this case, God loses nothing.

Regards
DL

 

[Bonzi]

Having another innocent person suffer for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral.

Which part of Jesus is God are you not understanding. Jesus is not "another person" - he IS God.

 

[Bonzi]

Yes. Something you do not like to do. Think for yourself

Oh so everyone gets to decide for themselves their own moral code? If that is the case why are we even having a debate? If we all get to determine our own moral compass, there is no moral compass.

 

[Bonzi]

Unnecessary suicide is moral to you is it?

Yes it was unnecessary because God could have forgiven sin without it and there are a few scriptures where God himself says that repentance is all that is required.

How in hell do you see God sacrificing himself to himself to appease his own wrath a sacrifice?

Sacrifice has a lose of some kind. In this case, God loses nothing.

God not only died, but, took the sins of all mankind on himself. This is a concept we, as finite human beings, can not grasp. It is impossible to explain because we are not capable of understanding. Unless you are willing to accept the fact that there are things of God and life that you won't understand this side of eternity, you will never be satisfied with any explanation or argument put before you.

I order to have an intelligent discussion, you must be open minded to ALL POSSIBILITIES!

 

[aris2chat]

Having another innocent person suffer for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral.

Which part of Jesus is God are you not understanding. Jesus is not "another person" - he IS God.

What kind of example is god if he breaks all his own rules and those of logic and science? Do as I say not as I do?
Jesus was just a man for hundreds of years. He was not divine. Bishops made him divine by a narrow vote.
"Our Father...." We are all the children of god, we all have a touch of the divine in us, but we are not 'god' or gods.
We can all find our way to god, we don't have to be limited to only through Jesus. God is everywhere in all things, so we can pray in an outhouse or to a cat as feel like we are talking to god. Putting a crucifix up in church or on some wall it using an idol. If you choose to believe in a god, you don't need a jesus or a holy spirit as well, just god, nor should Jesus be a replacement for god. Jesus taught of a way to be closer to god but he spoke to a small group of people in the heart of the Roman world, he did not speak to all people. His message might have bee shared over time around the world, but Jesus chose to speak to a small following. The rest of the world was of no importance to god?
If you truly believe in a god, why make it so limited and uncaring a god? Open your mind and stop imposing your hate and failing into your image of god. Which is more likely to meet god, a good man who does not know of or believe in or pray to god, or a hateful person that claims to be doing god work while being abusive and cruel to others?

 

[GreatestIam]

Having another innocent person suffer for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral.

Which part of Jesus is God are you not understanding. Jesus is not "another person" - he IS God.

You run way from the moral discussion again. Quite pathetic to see.

If Jesus is God, how can you say God died?

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

Yes. Something you do not like to do. Think for yourself

Oh so everyone gets to decide for themselves their own moral code? If that is the case why are we even having a debate? If we all get to determine our own moral compass, there is no moral compass.

Now you are being an idiot who cannot even read.

Is this quote that I gave you not saying that you are to be your own moral compass?

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Test all things; hold fast what is good.

If not, what is it telling you?

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

Unnecessary suicide is moral to you is it?

Yes it was unnecessary because God could have forgiven sin without it and there are a few scriptures where God himself says that repentance is all that is required.

How in hell do you see God sacrificing himself to himself to appease his own wrath a sacrifice?

Sacrifice has a lose of some kind. In this case, God loses nothing.

God not only died, but, took the sins of all mankind on himself. This is a concept we, as finite human beings, can not grasp. It is impossible to explain because we are not capable of understanding. Unless you are willing to accept the fact that there are things of God and life that you won't understand this side of eternity, you will never be satisfied with any explanation or argument put before you.

I order to have an intelligent discussion, you must be open minded to ALL POSSIBILITIES!

So God is not eternal and can die. Ok.

Regards
DL

 

[Muhammed]

The King James Bible is the truth. You need no other book to find the way to eternal life. Jesus Christ is the Word that became flesh and dwelt among men. He came to earth not to condemn us but that through Him we might be saved. Salvation comes from Christ alone. The Only Book you need is the BIBLE. Read it and ask the LORD to reveal Himself to you. When you ask Him be willing to do the will of God. John 7:17 is for you today!

BS!

I declare that my neighbor's cat is LORD!

 

[GreatestIam]

[QUOTE="Bonzi, post: 11477755, member: 54582

What kind of example is god if he breaks all his own rules and those of logic and science? Do as I say not as I do?
?

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

I would add that if we are told to be as perfect as God, then we to are to break our own rules and follow God's example as to using do as I say and not as I do.

Our Christian apologist friend has not thought out hos position in the least.

His morals show it.

Regards
DL

 

[Bonzi]

Not running from a morality discussion. But if morality is self-defined as you say it is, it's subjective and you can have your morality and I can have mine.

If Jesus is God, how can you say God died?

Jesus' body "died" on the cross. However, he as resurrected. So he Lives. This is what completes the Gospel message.

 

[Bonzi]

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Test all things; hold fast what is good

This is what this scripture is referring to - When doctrinal disputes arise, if a person cannot or will not prove beliefs using clear and unambiguous scriptures, that fact should raise a red flag. Clear scriptures are a solid-rock foundation. It's talking about testing things against scripture, holding fast to what is good (good meaning Godly - there is none good but God)

 

[aris2chat]

[QUOTE="Bonzi, post: 11477755, member: 54582

What kind of example is god if he breaks all his own rules and those of logic and science? Do as I say not as I do?
?

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

I would add that if we are told to be as perfect as God, then we to are to break our own rules and follow God's example as to using do as I say and not as I do.

Our Christian apologist friend has not thought out hos position in the least.

His morals show it.

Regards
DL

You should never stop questioning or searching for answers.

 

[Bonzi]

You should never stop questioning or searching for answers.

I don't disagree with that. However, as a Christian, you realize there is a power more intelligent than you and that you have a finite mind vs. an infinite mind (God's) - so, logically it would follow, what you can know is limited.

If you don't believe in God all this goes out the window.

 

[GreatestIam]

Not running from a morality discussion. But if morality is self-defined as you say it is, it's subjective and you can have your morality and I can have mine.

If Jesus is God, how can you say God died?

Jesus' body "died" on the cross. However, he as resurrected. So he Lives. This is what completes the Gospel message.

Your last is ridiculous ands only dumb children would believe such garbage. As I said, if there is no loss, and there is none here, then there was no human sacrifice and for you to embrace such a vile concept shows your mental depravity.

You are quite the liar. You say you have not run away from moral discussions and that is all you have done.

If not a lie, then speak to the morality of the example I gave of your God torturing and killing King David's baby.

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

You should never stop questioning or searching for answers.

I don't disagree with that. However, as a Christian, you realize there is a power more intelligent than you and that you have a finite mind vs. an infinite mind (God's) - so, logically it would follow, what you can know is limited.

If you don't believe in God all this goes out the window.

Pure hogwash.

Your own bible tells you that we are able to have the same moral sense as your God. --- They have become as God's in the knowing of good and evil.

That was God saying that A & E had what you say we do not have.

So much for your faith in God.

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Test all things; hold fast what is good

This is what this scripture is referring to - When doctrinal disputes arise, if a person cannot or will not prove beliefs using clear and unambiguous scriptures, that fact should raise a red flag. Clear scriptures are a solid-rock foundation. It's talking about testing things against scripture, holding fast to what is good (good meaning Godly - there is none good but God)

Sure but you seem to think that torturing and killing babies is a good thing to do.

And you want us to think as you do. Fat chance pal.

Regards
DL

 

[Bonzi]

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Test all things; hold fast what is good

This is what this scripture is referring to - When doctrinal disputes arise, if a person cannot or will not prove beliefs using clear and unambiguous scriptures, that fact should raise a red flag. Clear scriptures are a solid-rock foundation. It's talking about testing things against scripture, holding fast to what is good (good meaning Godly - there is none good but God)

Sure but you seem to think that torturing and killing babies is a good thing to do.

And you want us to think as you do. Fat chance pal.

Regards
DL

There are many things in the Bible that I don't understand, but, I do know God's ways are perfect. If people choose not to believe that or think their moral code is better than God's, they are welcome to that.

I am not telling you to believe anything or to "think like me" - I've never said those words, and, you have yet to show where I have used any "hate" language as you accused me of doing previously as well.

Either you believe in and follow the God of the Bible or not.

 

[Bonzi]

Your own bible tells you that we are able to have the same moral sense as your God. --- They have become as God's in the knowing of good and evil.

That was God saying that A & E had what you say we do not have.

They became aware of good and evil, but, they didn't become "omniscient". They were never "omniscient" as they were not God.

Let's look at the definition of "morals" - a person's standards of behavior or beliefs concerning what is and is not acceptable for them to do.

Let's say we each have our own set of morals. Do I believe it would be moral for me to have an abortion? No. However, if I'm going to accept Jesus as Lord, and follow God, I have to assume anything he does or commands is moral and perfect, otherwise, I'm not a committed follower of Christ and I should not call myself a Christian.

Therefore, anything God did or commanded to have done is moral, and, although I might not understand it or it doesn't seem right to me, I have agreed to not question it. I, if I so choose, can do research and speak with Theologians to try to understand better.