Some Israel supporters are turning into annoying complainers - “antisemitism”

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

It’s totally made up. I don’t care what you other liars say…, you have no evidence to call me an antisemite it’s all made up


How would you and other second amendment people 2aguy react if you live in a shit hole like Gaza and you had Jewish soldiers dictating your life to you. And you’re just a Christian or you’re a Muslim you’re trying to live your life. Imagine that happening to us in America.


There’s a lot of Jews in Israel who disagree with the IDF policy

There were no IDF soldiers in Gaza! There went your point right out the window!

 

[Shusha]

... Right of return doesn't imply that because ... you have ancestors that lived in ancient Judea, you now have a right to go back ...

Right of return is when your grandparents were expelled from their land and their children (your parents), and grandchildren (you and your siblings) were born and raised ... (elsewhere)

Once again, you are applying the principles of your argument unequally. The COLLECTIVE right of return is based on a collective right to a cultural, ethnic, and historical connection to a specific territory or place, as exemplified in your comment: "Since when do people who live in a territory and have their own culture, for centuries, cease to be a people or to have roots or rights to land ..."

The Jewish claim to that collective right is (at least) as valid as the Arab Palestinian collective right. (Many will argue that it is far MORE valid, including me in some contexts, but for the point of this conversation...)

Jewish people - wherever their place of exile is located and no matter how long it has been - have that same collective right. Arab Palestinians - wherever their place of exile is located and no matter how long it has been - have that same collective right. See how the principles of my argument are consistent? I challenge the same to you.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Sorry, you asked a question about rockets earlier. They’ve never done anything of substantial.

The point is, there is no organized legitimate military in any of Palestine like there is for example in Ukraine or Russia. They don’t have anti-aircraft present in Palestine. They stand no chance against the IDF

So this is not a war. There was a raid into Israel, and some members of the IDF may have allowed it to occur. And so now Israel is responding to it with air strikes. And if they send in the military as an a ground invasion, they might be meant by some gorilla resistance, but it’s not a pitched battle. It’s not a war. Not like Vietnam or iraq


Baathist Iraq was crushed by America in 2003 but at least they had some semblance of a military… although it was quite exhausted by 2003 considering their wars in Iran and the first gulf war

Where is your evidence of this happening?

The word is "guerilla" and pronounced slightly different than "gorilla". Guerilla resistance is very effective against large armies in an urban combat environment.

 

[Red Front]

There were no IDF soldiers in Gaza! There went your point right out the window!

There used to be Jewish soldiers and settlers in Gaza before 2003 I believe. I have to check. The Jewish soldiers moved outside of the city and held it hostage until now. The Zionists control the water, electricity, and everything else. The people of Gaza live in a giant concentration camp. In 2005 Israel imposed an economic embargo due to the people voting for Hamas. Hamas wasn't just a militant resistance group it was also providing social services like healthcare, education, food, and other necessities. They promised to not be corrupt like the previous Palestinian authorities who were considered too soft on Israel's occupation and constantly making concessions to the Israelis. Half of Gaza today wasn't even alive in 2005 when their parents and grandparents voted for Hamas. Half of Gaza today are children. 2000 children have been blown to bits by Netanyahu's Air Force. Children without a future, living in a giant concentration camp, surrounded by bobwire and the IDF.

How did Hamas get out of the concentration camp on October 7? The Israelis got a bit too confident. They stopped patrolling the fences, as they used to do. They reduced their personnel in the area, leading to Hamas breaching the fence and other obstacles. Most of the Hamas fighters were less than 25 years old. They were as young as 15 years old. Young people without a future, living in a concentration camp. I would be pissed off too.

 

[Red Front]

Once again, you are applying the principles of your argument unequally. The COLLECTIVE right of return is based on a collective right to a cultural, ethnic, and historical connection to a specific territory or place, as exemplified in your comment: "Since when do people who live in a territory and have their own culture, for centuries, cease to be a people or to have roots or rights to land ..."

The Jewish claim to that collective right is (at least) as valid as the Arab Palestinian collective right. (Many will argue that it is far MORE valid, including me in some contexts, but for the point of this conversation...)

Jewish people - wherever their place of exile is located and no matter how long it has been - have that same collective right. Arab Palestinians - wherever their place of exile is located and no matter how long it has been - have that same collective right. See how the principles of my argument are consistent? I challenge the same to you.

If the Jewish people want to return to the Holy Land and dispossess the people who have been living there for centuries, creating a Jewish apartheid state or a country where Muslims and Christians aren't equal to Jews before the law of the land, then you get nothing. The Zionist Jews wanted to create a Jewish State in a place where most of the people weren't Jewish. That created all of the problems that we see now. Jewish people should've, with the Arab Palestinians, created a state for everyone. Call it "Israel-Palestine" and everyone lives together, in peace. Everyone is equal before the law. That's not the case today in the Jewish State. I believe the opportunity to create an Israeli-Palestinian State is gone. Muslims are now committed to taking all of Palestine and then later allowing Jews to live there as equal citizens.

I believe the Arab Palestinians will treat the Jews better than the Zionist Jews treated them.

 

[Shusha]

The Holy Land is for Jews, Muslims, Christians, and everybody else who is of that land. It's not just Jewish anymore.

I have two answers to this, and I'm stuck on which one to go with, so I'm going to share both. Both actually demonstrate the inconsistencies of your argument.

The first is: Yes! We agree! The land is not "just" Jewish anymore. There are others whose long history in the land give them cultural, ethnic, and historical rights to that land; to sovereignty on that land; and to self-determination on that land. Those rights can not be denied. For the SAME reason, the cultural, ethnic, and historical rights of the Jewish people to Eretz Israel are undeniable, inviolable, and permanent. Which, if you were being consistent, would end all of your nonsense about "Zionism" and the erasure of Jewish claim to that land, and we could at least start from a two-state solution with full acknowledgement of land rights for both peoples.

The second is: The Jewish people are the indigenous people to that land. The Jewish culture and history arose on that land and no where else. If you dig in that land, you will find the history of the Jewish people. The history of the Jewish people can be found no where else but on that land. Any disconnection from that land was forced on the Jewish people through invasion, conquest, exile, colonization, and conversion. The very fact that you say that the land is for Jews, Xtians, and Muslims demonstrates your investment in usurping another people's culture, beliefs, religion, and history and taking it for your own.

 

[USAF 2023]

There was too much distrust, due to what occurred in the 1990s and 2000s. There might have been a two-state solution, 25 years ago, but the situation has gotten much worse, due to right-wing Israelis. The only real option today is the freeing of Palestine from the Zionist Jewish apartheid state. No justice, no peace. The Muslims are now fighting for all of Palestine to be in their hands.

Still doesn’t explain why Abbas rejected the Proposal 15 years ago. Nothing to do with then” right wing Israelis “ of today

 

[Red Front]

I have two answers to this, and I'm stuck on which one to go with, so I'm going to share both. Both actually demonstrate the inconsistencies of your argument.

The first is: Yes! We agree! The land is not "just" Jewish anymore. There are others whose long history in the land give them cultural, ethnic, and historical rights to that land; to sovereignty on that land; and to self-determination on that land. Those rights can not be denied. For the SAME reason, the cultural, ethnic, and historical rights of the Jewish people to Eretz Israel are undeniable, inviolable, and permanent. Which, if you were being consistent, would end all of your nonsense about "Zionism" and the erasure of Jewish claim to that land, and we could at least start from a two-state solution with full acknowledgement of land rights for both peoples.

The second is: The Jewish people are the indigenous people to that land. The Jewish culture and history arose on that land and no where else. If you dig in that land, you will find the history of the Jewish people. The history of the Jewish people can be found no where else but on that land. Any disconnection from that land was forced on the Jewish people through invasion, conquest, exile, colonization, and conversion. The very fact that you say that the land is for Jews, Xtians, and Muslims demonstrates your investment in usurping another people's culture, beliefs, religion, and history and taking it for your own.

There were Jews living throughout the ancient world, and it wasn't just due to war or being forced out of the Holy Land. The archeology actually shows that many different people have lived in that land, not just Jews or Israelites. If you feel that you have a right to that land, being a Jew from Russia, Yemen, China, or Brooklyn Heights, while the people who remained in the land since there were Israelites there, have less than a right than you to live there and call that land there's, then you're inconsistent. The Palestinian Arabs, have at the very least, an equal right to be there with the Jews from the Upper Westside of Manhattan, who speak Yiddish and eat Gifilte Fish.

At least those Middle Eastern Palestinian Arabs have the same right to live there and if you pretend otherwise, going there and taking that land away from them by force, don't expect the people of the region to see you as a good neighbor. You'll be at war forever. You'll need an empire like the US, funding and protecting you. For many years I was for the two-state solution, but the Israelis don't really want it. A lot has happened in the last twenty years, which in my opinion makes the two-state solution impossible. What we're seeing right now with Netanyahu and Gaza, I believe is the beginning of the end of the Jewish Zionist State. It doesn't matter how many nukes and German Dolphin Submarines armed with nukes the Israelis have, this war against Gaza, is going to lead to Israel being overwhelmed by its enemies.

I wouldn't be surprised if this leads to WW3.

One more thing. Hashem says in TeNaK, that the land is His, not Jewish land. God owns the land and He gives it to whomever he wills. The non-Jewish, Semitic people of the Holy Land aren't worshiping Dagon or sacrificing their children to an idol. They worship and serve Allah, the Holy One of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. When you're fighting Muslims, you're not having a conflict with idolaters but with strict monotheists, who pray five times a day to Allah (i.e. Eloah/Elohim), the God of the patriarchs. Do you think the Muslims would sodomize the Holy Land as the Jews have:

Worshiping Idols:

Music Festival That Hamas Attacked...

Music Festival -Hamas Target..​

Is the above a good example of Jewish, Israelite culture and heritage? Is that Torah? Does YHWH support these types of activities from His "chosen special people"? On what grounds do you claim that the land belongs to you and not the Muslim Arab Palestinians, who would never thumb their noses at God the way the Jews do? The Arab Christians wouldn't do that either. What gives you the right to turn the Holy Land into a Gay Night Club and Idol Worshiping Music Festival? Is this your "Jewish State"? Is this what Zionism is? The land belongs to Hashem, to God, and He gives it to whomever He wills. The Muslims are going to defeat the Zionists and take control of the Holy Land once again. Watch and see.

​

 

[Red Front]

Don't be afraid, come debate me. What does the Hebrew Bible say about the Zionist secular state of "Israel"? About the Jews establishing a godless "Jewish State" in the Holy Land. God's land. Not the land of the Jews or the land of Muslims or Christians, but the land of the God of Abraham. What does the Bible say about the Jew's covenant with God and its Torah? What does the Bible say about the Mashiach?

I have a question for the American Zionist Evangelicals (the ones who first came up with Zionism and actually influenced the Jewish Zionists of the 19th century, to return to the Holy Land en masse and create a homeland for the Jews). Does genuine Christianity support the creation of an atheistic Zionist Jewish homeland that performs more abortions per capita than the United States and has turned the Holy Land into Sodom and Gomorrah? Can Israel be Israel without Jesus Christ, from a Christian, New Testament perspective? Most of you non-Jews defending the Zionist State are doing it for religious reasons, yet ironically even from a religious perspective, you don't have a foot to stand on. I say the same to any Jew who is appealing to their Jewishness or TeNaK to support their Zionism. Come debate me, don't be cowards.

I also challenge the secular American patriots who defend the Zionist State. Let's debate the legitimacy of the atheist Zionist state of "Israel" and see if it's good for America to do so. Does it actually serve the interests of the USA to blindly support the Jewish apartheid state of Israhell? Let's debate the subject. Is America being held hostage by Zionist Jews? Is America a Zionist-held asset that sends its sons and daughters to die for Israhell? Are you really an American patriot if you're serving the whims of Israel at the expense of America? Let's debate.

​

Avi Shlaim (Israeli)​

​

Ilan Pappe (Israeli)


​

 

[Shusha]

... The archeology actually shows that many different people have lived in that land, not just Jews or Israelites.

Yes. But only the Jewish people originated in that land. Every other people originated elsewhere and migrated to Israel, most often through invasion, conquest, and colonization.

That said, if you read my post above, you would understand that I do not deny Arab Palestinians rights to self-determination and sovereignty on that land, along with the Jewish people.

 

[Ringo]

 

[Red Front]

Yes. But only the Jewish people originated in that land. Every other people originated elsewhere and migrated to Israel, most often through invasion, conquest, and colonization.

That said, if you read my post above, you would understand that I do not deny Arab Palestinians rights to self-determination and sovereignty on that land, along with the Jewish people.

The history of the Levant (the region encompassing modern-day Israel, Palestine, Jordan, Lebanon, and parts of Syria) is complex and goes back thousands of years. It has been inhabited by various groups, including Canaanites, Philistines, Hebrews, Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians, Greeks, Romans, Byzantines, Arabs, Crusaders, and Ottomans, among others. Asserting that only one group originated there oversimplifies this history.

The idea of Jewish people as a monolithic racial or ethnic group isn't accurate. Jews from around the world have a variety of genetic backgrounds, including Ashkenazi (European), Sephardi (Iberian), Mizrahi (Middle Eastern/North African), Beta Israel (Ethiopian), and others. Palestinians, both Christian and Muslim, have lived in the region for centuries. Many Palestinians trace their lineage back to ancient times, long before the Arab Muslim conquest of the 7th century (1400 years ago).

Unlike Christianity and Islam, Judaism is an extremely ethnocentric, xenophobic religion and when it's coupled with secular Zionist Jewish nationalism, you get a destructive racist apartheid state, if everyone in that Jewish-run country isn't Jewish. Zionists managed to convince all Jews around the world that to be truly Jewish they must be pro-Israel. That places Jewish people in a very precarious position throughout the world. Jews are now subject to more non-Jewish scrutiny and suspicion, of not being fully committed to the interests of the nations where they now reside (dual allegiances, may present a conflict of interests).

Jews around the world serve the interests of the Jewish State of Israel at the expense of the countries where they now live. That can actually increase anti-Semitism, making the situation worse for Jews around the world, not better. I take it personally that Zionist Jews with dual citizenship, have so much influence over my government and society in general. Why should Americans facilitate what is happening today in Gaza with their tax dollars? I don't want to pay for that crap.

Zionists from the very beginning planned to ethnically cleanse the Holy Land of its Palestinian Arab inhabitants, and that's created a lot of bad blood between Zionist Jews and Palestinian Arabs. I doubt a two-state solution is possible today. The Zionist Jewish State has to be defeated. That's the only way to free the Palestinians and the United States. The US is essentially being held hostage by Jewish Zionists.

 

[Red Front]

Rather than just saying

The history of the Levant (the region encompassing modern-day Israel, Palestine, Jordan, Lebanon, and parts of Syria) is complex and goes back thousands of years. It has been inhabited by various groups, including Canaanites, Philistines, Hebrews, Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians, Greeks, Romans, Byzantines, Arabs, Crusaders, and Ottomans, among others. Asserting that only one group originated there oversimplifies this history.

The idea of Jewish people as a monolithic racial or ethnic group isn't accurate. Jews from around the world have a variety of genetic backgrounds, including Ashkenazi (European), Sephardi (Iberian), Mizrahi (Middle Eastern/North African), Beta Israel (Ethiopian), and others. Palestinians, both Christian and Muslim, have lived in the region for centuries. Many Palestinians trace their lineage back to ancient times, long before the Arab Muslim conquest of the 7th century (1400 years ago).

Unlike Christianity and Islam, Judaism is an extremely ethnocentric, xenophobic religion and when it's coupled with secular Zionist Jewish nationalism, you get a destructive racist apartheid state, if everyone in that Jewish-run country isn't Jewish. Zionists managed to convince all Jews around the world that to be truly Jewish they must be pro-Israel. That places Jewish people in a very precarious position throughout the world. Jews are now subject to more non-Jewish scrutiny and suspicion, of not being fully committed to the interests of the nations where they now reside (dual allegiances, may present a conflict of interests).

Jews around the world serve the interests of the Jewish State of Israel at the expense of the countries where they now live. That can actually increase anti-Semitism, making the situation worse for Jews around the world, not better. I take it personally that Zionist Jews with dual citizenship, have so much influence over my government and society in general. Why should Americans facilitate what is happening today in Gaza with their tax dollars? I don't want to pay for that crap.

Zionists from the very beginning planned to ethnically cleanse the Holy Land of its Palestinian Arab inhabitants, and that's created a lot of bad blood between Zionist Jews and Palestinian Arabs. I doubt a two-state solution is possible today. The Zionist Jewish State has to be defeated. That's the only way to free the Palestinians and the United States. The US is essentially being held hostage by Jewish Zionists.

I should also add Zionist American Evangelicals as part of the problem. That's not to say that there aren't any Liberal Democrats that are Zionists, because there certainly are, but American Evangelicals are uniquely committed to the Jewish State of Israel. For them, it's the fulfillment of biblical prophecy and it's all tied to Jesus' second coming. They're the most staunch supporters of Israhell. They'll sell out their mothers for Netanyahu.

 

[Shusha]

The history of the Levant (the region encompassing modern-day Israel, Palestine, Jordan, Lebanon, and parts of Syria) is complex and goes back thousands of years. It has been inhabited by various groups, including Canaanites, Philistines, Hebrews, Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians, Greeks, Romans, Byzantines, Arabs, Crusaders, and Ottomans, among others. Asserting that only one group originated there oversimplifies this history.

The idea of Jewish people as a monolithic racial or ethnic group isn't accurate. Jews from around the world have a variety of genetic backgrounds, including Ashkenazi (European), Sephardi (Iberian), Mizrahi (Middle Eastern/North African), Beta Israel (Ethiopian), and others. Palestinians, both Christian and Muslim, have lived in the region for centuries. Many Palestinians trace their lineage back to ancient times, long before the Arab Muslim conquest of the 7th century (1400 years ago).

Unlike Christianity and Islam, Judaism is an extremely ethnocentric, xenophobic religion and when it's coupled with secular Zionist Jewish nationalism, you get a destructive racist apartheid state, if everyone in that Jewish-run country isn't Jewish. Zionists managed to convince all Jews around the world that to be truly Jewish they must be pro-Israel. That places Jewish people in a very precarious position throughout the world. Jews are now subject to more non-Jewish scrutiny and suspicion, of not being fully committed to the interests of the nations where they now reside (dual allegiances, may present a conflict of interests).

Jews around the world serve the interests of the Jewish State of Israel at the expense of the countries where they now live. That can actually increase anti-Semitism, making the situation worse for Jews around the world, not better. I take it personally that Zionist Jews with dual citizenship, have so much influence over my government and society in general. Why should Americans facilitate what is happening today in Gaza with their tax dollars? I don't want to pay for that crap.

Zionists from the very beginning planned to ethnically cleanse the Holy Land of its Palestinian Arab inhabitants, and that's created a lot of bad blood between Zionist Jews and Palestinian Arabs. I doubt a two-state solution is possible today. The Zionist Jewish State has to be defeated. That's the only way to free the Palestinians and the United States. The US is essentially being held hostage by Jewish Zionists.

You don't wonder why you are charged with antisemitism, do you?

 

[Red Front]

You don't wonder why you are charged with antisemitism, do you?

Because Zionist Jews think they're above and beyond criticism, especially from non-Jews. If I were a Jew I would be accused of being a "self-hating Jew". It's a type of gaslighting. I personally don't give a shit, if Zionist Jews accuse me of anti-Semiticism.

 

[surada]

Often the same pro Israel people here in America who lie about other peoples views, calling folks antisemitic for criticizing Israeli policy …will also say that “Islam is a violent religion” or “Muslims are a death cult”. Isn’t that interesting. Those people who do that Lose all credibility when they call people anti Semitic…. They’re also some of the most annoying losers on the planet.

And I do believe that in this world might makes right

It’s a fact of life. Might makes right. Israel has all the might over Hamas. But politicians and people in the media will exaggerate about things and hype things up that Jews are in some existential threat, which is humiliating and embarrassing to the strong people of Israel.

The fact of the matter is that most Israelis and Palestinians want to live together, and would marry each other and love each other. This beauty +love certainly can happen, and I think it will eventually with a one state solution. But in response to this, you have pro Israel racists will simply say “that can’t happen Jews will become a minority” as if somehow the Palestinians, which includes Christians ….are evil. And it’s always the same annoying pro Israel people who call other people anti-semitic , are the same people who denigrate Palestinians.

Keyboard warriors will lash out at the people of Israel and Palestine, who want to live together. But God will prevail over them and love and peace will prevail.

Now they are blaming Obama or Biden. Damn fools never take responsibility.

 

[surada]

You don't wonder why you are charged with antisemitism, do you?

He's right. The Israelis have become Nazis.

 

[USAF 2023]

He's right. The Israelis have become Nazis.

She’s right . There was never any Antisemitism before 1948. ASSHOLE