Should volunteer cops be allowed to carry guns?

[BluePhantom]

Volunteer cops might legally be qualified to carry a firearm but the problem is whether or not to authorize them police authority to use deadly force. It's clear that the guy in Tulsa was a police buff who paid his way to carry a Badge. He never should have been involved with a real Police investigation and the Sheriff who appointed him should face charges.

If you really think about it, the average person has the same right to use force as a cop does. Deadly force can be used to protect themselves, another person, or the public at large from the threat of deadly force. Same thing applies to the average Joe. I can shoot someone if they are attacking me, attacking my family, or attacking someone else and demonstrating deadly force. Pretty much the same for cops...at least according to the law. How it is actually applied is a bit different.

 

[whitehall]

Volunteer cops might legally be qualified to carry a firearm but the problem is whether or not to authorize them police authority to use deadly force. It's clear that the guy in Tulsa was a police buff who paid his way to carry a Badge. He never should have been involved with a real Police investigation and the Sheriff who appointed him should face charges.

If you really think about it, the average person has the same right to use force as a cop does. Deadly force can be used to protect themselves, another person, or the public at large from the threat of deadly force. Same thing applies to the average Joe. I can shoot someone if they are attacking me, attacking my family, or attacking someone else and demonstrating deadly force. Pretty much the same for cops...at least according to the law. How it is actually applied is a bit different.

Nope, the average joe has the right to defend himself but Police Officers have the sworn duty (obligation) and the authority to protect civilians. They should have the training necessary to carry out their Constitutional duties. Sheriffs are usually elected and as such the citizens have the right (and the obligation) to hire and fire them every couple of years.

 

[BluePhantom]

Nope, the average joe has the right to defend himself but Police Officers have the sworn duty (obligation) and the authority to protect civilians. They should have the training necessary to carry out their Constitutional duties. .

Hmmmm................................................Ok I think that's a reasonable distinction. So I am understanding you to say that a cop actually has an obligation to shoot in certain circumstances where a private citizen simply has the right to do so if they choose?

 

[Gracie]

After the shooting of an unarmed black man in Tulsa where the VOLUNTEER DEPUTY thought he'd reached for his taser, fatally shot him because he didn't realize that he'd actually pulled his 357 out.

Now.................volunteer deputies don't get paid, they just get to run around and act like cops. They don't get as much training, and in most cases are there under a support role.

Since they are support only, and real trained cops are at the forefront of the operations, why do volunteer cops need to have a gun? Shouldn't a taser be enough, because like I said, they're there in a support role only with the real cops leading the charge, meaning that they're off in the background to help if necessary.

After this incident, and understanding that many times it is possible to BUY YOUR WAY ONTO THE POLICE FORCE with enough donations (like this Tulsa volunteer did), I say that the volunteers be given tasers only.

If deadly force needs to be used, let the actual trained professionals handle it.

Should volunteers carry? No. Period.
We have seniors in our town that volunteer to patrol. They have a regular sheriff vehicle, radios, etc...but no guns. Not even tazers. They just report to on duty officers. That is how it should be everywhere.

 

[Iceweasel]

Nope, the average joe has the right to defend himself but Police Officers have the sworn duty (obligation) and the authority to protect civilians. They should have the training necessary to carry out their Constitutional duties. Sheriffs are usually elected and as such the citizens have the right (and the obligation) to hire and fire them every couple of years.

Where are you getting that from? LEOs are not obligated to put themselves in harms way, no law says that That I've heard of. Definitely not the Constitution.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

After the shooting of an unarmed black man in Tulsa where the VOLUNTEER DEPUTY thought he'd reached for his taser, fatally shot him because he didn't realize that he'd actually pulled his 357 out.

Now.................volunteer deputies don't get paid, they just get to run around and act like cops. They don't get as much training, and in most cases are there under a support role.

Since they are support only, and real trained cops are at the forefront of the operations, why do volunteer cops need to have a gun? Shouldn't a taser be enough, because like I said, they're there in a support role only with the real cops leading the charge, meaning that they're off in the background to help if necessary.

After this incident, and understanding that many times it is possible to BUY YOUR WAY ONTO THE POLICE FORCE with enough donations (like this Tulsa volunteer did), I say that the volunteers be given tasers only.

If deadly force needs to be used, let the actual trained professionals handle it.

Not even sure I understand the term 'volunteer deputy.' If you're enforcing the law one might hope you actually have the credentials and training to do that well. And if you do, why are you doing it for free? Thye just take volunteers, give em badges and guns and say go play cop?

Aside from that, what the fuck was a 73 year-old doing on patrol? I assume he wasn't held to the same standards as regular deputies? Hard to imagine a 73yo passing the physical and mental tests 20-somethings sometimes have difficulty with.

 

[MikeK]

I'm wondering why police departments even have volunteer cops? Shouldn't the person who is potentially able to take away your freedom and liberty by arresting you be someone who was actually trained for it, rather than just some wanna be idiot who thinks it would be fun to play cops and robbers and donates a whole bunch of stuff to attain that position.

I agree.

Consider the following:

(Excerpt)

The South Carolina Forestry Commission began looking closely at this phenomenon in 1993. By the end of the year, the tally of confirmed arrests was truly alarming—at least 33 fire department volunteers had been charged with arson. In 1994, 47 more were arrested. Forestry Commission and South Carolina Fire Service officials alike were astounded at the extent of the problem. “We knew it happened occasionally,” said Miles Knight, fire chief of the Forestry Commission, “but we were surprised by numbers like this.”
SCFC Firefighter Arson Study

(Close)

For the same reason firebugs become volunteer firefighters the motive for becoming a volunteer cop is equally suspicious.

Being a cop is not all "protecting and serving" the general public. By and large the average cop's day involves handing out summonses and becoming involved in some really ugly situations such as accidents, deaths, domestic violence, and enforcing drug laws -- which are counterproductive and promote misery on a grand scale, and generally asserting themselves on other citizens.

In my opinion, there is something wrong with anyone who would derive pleasure from such participation.

 

[BluePhantom]

After the shooting of an unarmed black man in Tulsa where the VOLUNTEER DEPUTY thought he'd reached for his taser, fatally shot him because he didn't realize that he'd actually pulled his 357 out.

Now.................volunteer deputies don't get paid, they just get to run around and act like cops. They don't get as much training, and in most cases are there under a support role.

Since they are support only, and real trained cops are at the forefront of the operations, why do volunteer cops need to have a gun? Shouldn't a taser be enough, because like I said, they're there in a support role only with the real cops leading the charge, meaning that they're off in the background to help if necessary.

After this incident, and understanding that many times it is possible to BUY YOUR WAY ONTO THE POLICE FORCE with enough donations (like this Tulsa volunteer did), I say that the volunteers be given tasers only.

If deadly force needs to be used, let the actual trained professionals handle it.

Not even sure I understand the term 'volunteer deputy.' If you're enforcing the law one might hope you actually have the credentials and training to do that well. And if you do, why are you doing it for free? Thye just take volunteers, give em badges and guns and say go play cop?

Aside from that, what the fuck was a 73 year-old doing on patrol? I assume he wasn't held to the same standards as regular deputies? Hard to imagine a 73yo passing the physical and mental tests 20-somethings sometimes have difficulty with.

Well the posse in Arizona is usually senior citizens too. I don't know why. maybe they just have nothing better to do. But like I said, they don't get involved. They have a radio like all cops and when they see a crime in progress they radio in and the real cops come take care of it. That doesn't bother me. They probably have no business trying to foil a crime themselves though

 

[Manonthestreet]

Cops don't have a duty to protect you.

 

[Manonthestreet]

Before ashcanning something shouldn't we have more info on its use and effectiveness?

 

[BluePhantom]

Cops don't have a duty to protect you.

They don't?!?!? Isn't it "To protect and serve"? If their duty is not to protect the citizenry then what is their function?

 

[Manonthestreet]

No they don't New York case I believe. Person sued cause cops just stood and watched some psycho attacking people with a knife.

 

[ClosedCaption]

Terrible tragedy. The better question though is, why the hell is a volunteer cop involved in a professional sting operation?

Because he paid enough to do it...which says a fucking lot

 

[BluePhantom]

No they don't New York case I believe. Person sued cause cops just stood and watched some psycho attacking people with a knife.

I didn't hear about that. Got a link? Not that I doubt you. It wouldn't surprise me at all given how fucked up the judicial system is. I am just interested in reading that story.

 

[MikeK]

Well the posse in Arizona is usually senior citizens too. I don't know why. maybe they just have nothing better to do. But like I said, they don't get involved. They have a radio like all cops and when they see a crime in progress they radio in and the real cops come take care of it. That doesn't bother me. They probably have no business trying to foil a crime themselves though

That category of observer is typically called "Neighborhood Watch."

I live in a large retirement community and we have a radio-equipped mobile patrol between dusk and dawn. It consists of resident volunteers who are very clearly instructed to observe and notify only and under no circumstances to take any physical action if they see something illegal.

 

[BluePhantom]

Well the posse in Arizona is usually senior citizens too. I don't know why. maybe they just have nothing better to do. But like I said, they don't get involved. They have a radio like all cops and when they see a crime in progress they radio in and the real cops come take care of it. That doesn't bother me. They probably have no business trying to foil a crime themselves though

That category of observer is typically called "Neighborhood Watch."

I live in a large retirement community and we have a radio-equipped mobile patrol between dusk and dawn. It consists of resident volunteers who are very clearly instructed to observe and notify only and under no circumstances to take any physical action if they see something illegal.

The Arizona posse is similar, yes, but unlike a neighborhood watch they go outside their direct neighborhood. They receive assignments from the police where to patrol and it's not just in their neighborhood. During Christmas season they are all over the shopping malls for example and on game days you will see them patrolling around the stadiums for the Cardinals, Suns, Diamondbacks, and Coyotes.

When Phoenix had the two serial killers working at the same time (Baseline Killer and Serial Shooter) the posse was out in force driving around and reporting anything suspicious in the areas that the killers were operating. So it's a bit different in the sense that they operate all over the city, but similar in that they keep their distance and don't get involved.

 

[MikeK]

Terrible tragedy. The better question though is, why the hell is a volunteer cop involved in a professional sting operation?

Because he paid enough to do it...which says a fucking lot

Privatized (for profit) prisons are becoming the new standard. The Prison Industry in the United States Big Business or a New Form of Slavery Global Research - Centre for Research on Globalization

And some judges have been convicted of sending juveniles to these private institutions in exchange for bribes. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/13/us/13judge.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

So it's not surprising that wealthy authoritarian personalities are able to pay for the perverse pleasure of participating in a "take-down" arrest.

It may be said that law-enforcement in America has reached the level of capitalism feeding on itself.

 

[Manonthestreet]

No they don't New York case I believe. Person sued cause cops just stood and watched some psycho attacking people with a knife.

I didn't hear about that. Got a link? Not that I doubt you. It wouldn't surprise me at all given how fucked up the judicial system is. I am just interested in reading that story.

gothamist.com/2013/07/28/subway_stabbing_victim_im_devastate.php

 

[BluePhantom]

No they don't New York case I believe. Person sued cause cops just stood and watched some psycho attacking people with a knife.

I didn't hear about that. Got a link? Not that I doubt you. It wouldn't surprise me at all given how fucked up the judicial system is. I am just interested in reading that story.

gothamist.com/2013/07/28/subway_stabbing_victim_im_devastate.php

Here's the court decision. Wow......that's fucking insane.

http://decisions.courts.state.ny.us/fcas/fcas_docs/2013JUL/3001010882012002SCIV.pdf

 

[Muhammed]

The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.