Should race-baiting demagogues share blame for two murdered NYPD cops?

[mudwhistle]

Obviously the one most responsible, is the guy who pulled the trigger and shot the cops.

And when people simply report the truth and that upsets somebody, that's not the reporters' fault.

But when people like Al Sharpton, Chris Matthews etc. go around telling long-debunked lies ("Michael Brown had his hands up and was surrendering when he was shot", "Cops killed Eric Garner because they hated blacks") and their lies inflame some whacko to the point where he murders two cops in cold blood, shouldn't those lying race-baiters share some responsibility for the murdered cops?

How long will we tolerate people telling flagrant lies to whip up their hatred and resentment?

About 2 years, and 29 days longer.

Obama will be gone then.

 

[Asclepias]

blacks know better than to kill too many whites. Their checks would stop coming in and nothing they use would be made.

Thats dumb. Blacks would all have jobs and keep on producing the things they want.

 

[Clementine]

Just as soon as Rush Limbaugh takes responsibility for the Oklahoma City Bombing

What did Limbaugh have to do with that?

The OKC bombing was motivated by the WACO massacre.

He talked about Waco on his radio show, and blamed the federal government, so--according to the logic of the OP--he is to blame.

Did he lead idiots in a chant that went, "What do we want? Dead government workers. When do we want it? Now."

No, he and others rightfully criticized the disastrous way WACO was handled. The talk centered around the fact that there was too much force and too much violence. Sharpton's talk is directly intended to incite anger at entire groups.

 

[Little-Acorn]

How long will we tolerate people telling flagrant lies to whip up their hatred and resentment?

About 2 years, and 29 days longer. Obama will be gone then.

But Sharpton, Matthews and their ilk won't be.

Again, how long will we tolerate people telling flagrant lies to whip up their hatred and resentment?

 

[candycorn]

How long will we tolerate people telling flagrant lies to whip up their hatred and resentment?

About 2 years, and 29 days longer. Obama will be gone then.

But Sharpton, Matthews and their ilk won't be.

Again, how long will we tolerate people telling flagrant lies to whip up their hatred and resentment?

Did you comment on Muds claim that blacks are the problem?

 

[MikeK]

Don't you think that has something to do with police officers having to go into these slums to serve warrants and on more than ONE occasion, having been attacked? Some of these neighborhoods are like war zones. I wouldn't want to go knocking on one of those thugs doors and then identify myself as an officer of the law. That's like a death warrant.

The concern you've outlined does not call for or justify a 3AM, "no-knock," door-busting, SWAT raid when the reason for the police attention is minor drug activity or something equally petty.

There was a time when these raids were the exception. Today they are an increasing rule. There is an article associated with the CATO map which I'm sure you will find interesting. I suggest you read it.

I don't necessarily agree with ALL of the things the police do and I do agree that sometimes it's just overkill, but at the same time they want to go home at night to their families and not be shot and killed unexpectedly by some demented thug in the hood.

I believe police safety is a legitimate concern. But it does not take precedence over safeguards which exist for the purpose of avoiding a drift toward police state conditions -- which these unnecessary SWAT raids unquestionably manifest.

The excuse typically put forth to justify these raids is to avoid drug suspects destroying evidence if the police knock on the door. But in my opinion this utterly useless and counterproductive drug war is not worth sacrificing the atmosphere of freedom.

Keep in mind that police aggression is not self-limiting, and what they are doing to someone else today they will be doing to you tomorrow. If not for petty drugs then for something equally minor.

SWAT raids are for dealing with dangerous public enemies -- not minor, non-violent offenders.

 

[thanatos144]

Gee teach kids that cops hate you because of the color of your skin and if they become cops they are traitors or house ******* and you idiots are shocked that the thug culture is prevalent?

 

[ChrisL]

Don't you think that has something to do with police officers having to go into these slums to serve warrants and on more than ONE occasion, having been attacked? Some of these neighborhoods are like war zones. I wouldn't want to go knocking on one of those thugs doors and then identify myself as an officer of the law. That's like a death warrant.

The concern you've outlined does not call for or justify a 3AM, "no-knock," door-busting, SWAT raid when the reason for the police attention is minor drug activity or something equally petty.

There was a time when these raids were the exception. Today they are an increasing rule. There is an article associated with the CATO map which I'm sure you will find interesting. I suggest you read it.

I don't necessarily agree with ALL of the things the police do and I do agree that sometimes it's just overkill, but at the same time they want to go home at night to their families and not be shot and killed unexpectedly by some demented thug in the hood.

I believe police safety is a legitimate concern. But it does not take precedence over safeguards which exist for the purpose of avoiding a drift toward police state conditions -- which these unnecessary SWAT raids unquestionably manifest.

The excuse typically put forth to justify these raids is to avoid drug suspects destroying evidence if the police knock on the door. But in my opinion this utterly useless and counterproductive drug war is not worth sacrificing the atmosphere of freedom.

Keep in mind that police aggression is not self-limiting, and what they are doing to someone else today they will be doing to you tomorrow. If not for petty drugs then for something equally minor.

SWAT raids are for dealing with dangerous public enemies -- not minor, non-violent offenders.

I think they only do that when they expect a person (or persons) to be armed and dangerous and to put up a fight. People with a history of assault and battery on the police and things like that. I don't think they use SWAT teams for run-of-the-mill warrants.

Of course, years ago, there would be fewer raids. We have more people now. More people equals more criminals. Wouldn't you want to the best protection available if you were having to go into an unknown situation like that? Or would you say, meh, I don't need any of that. I trust criminals.

 

[Carib Gyal]

Gee teach kids that cops hate you because of the color of your skin and if they become cops they are traitors or house ******* and you idiots are shocked that the thug culture is prevalent?

I don't think most decent people are shocked. I think they're pissed.

 

[thanatos144]

This is bad parenting. End of story.

 

[MikeK]

Meh, I don't know about any "wars" of any kind. I think that MOST black people are not murderers and killers. This is a particular inner city "gang" culture on display. Yes, it seems like there are a lot of them who would support this type of behavior, but I actually think it is probably a minority of black people who would ever kill a police officer. It's just that the violent ones are the ones who we see on the news all the time.

The problem is when a race riot erupts one's ethnicity is one's uniform, like it or not. And the innocent always suffer along with the guilty under those kill-or-be-killed circumstances.

 

[candycorn]

Don't you think that has something to do with police officers having to go into these slums to serve warrants and on more than ONE occasion, having been attacked? Some of these neighborhoods are like war zones. I wouldn't want to go knocking on one of those thugs doors and then identify myself as an officer of the law. That's like a death warrant.

I don't necessarily agree with ALL of the things the police do and I do agree that sometimes it's just overkill, but at the same time they want to go home at night to their families and not be shot and killed unexpectedly by some demented thug in the hood.

I am not picking your post out to 'argue with" but there is a "set up" quality to your post.

Why are there slums? I'm not saying this is the only reason but our criminal justice system does seem to be a self-fulfilling prophecy. First if you look at the Stop and Frisk laws in New York:

If yous top 5 times as many blacks and 3 times as many latinos as you do whites, you're going to end up with more blacks and latinos doing time.

Next lets look at sentencing:

In the states listed, nearly 4 out of 10 more blacks than whites are sentenced to life without parole meaning they won't be there for their kids.

But it extends beyond there.


Even minor crimes (in comparison) come with catches (again, if you are white, you're a 1/10 to get frisked vs 6/10 for blacks). If you can post bail, you come back for trial where, if you're guilty, you're often assessed a fine that accrues annually

Sentenced to debt Some tossed in prison over unpaid fines - NBC News

As Court Fees Rise The Poor Are Paying The Price NPR

Welcome to Prison. Will You Be Paying Cash or Credit TIME.com

Anyway, slums are dangerous because of crime. Crime is there because there are so few fathers are a part of their kids lives....

Statistics

• 63% of youth suicides are from fatherless homes (US Dept. Of Health/Census) – 5 times the average.

• 90% of all homeless and runaway children are from fatherless homes – 32 times the average.

• 85% of all children who show behavior disorders come from fatherless homes – 20 times the average. (Center for Disease Control)

• 80% of rapists with anger problems come from fatherless homes –14 times the average. (Justice & Behavior, Vol 14, p. 403-26)

• 71% of all high school dropouts come from fatherless homes – 9 times the average. (National Principals Association Report)

Father Factor in Education - Fatherless children are twice as likely to drop out of school.

• Children with Fathers who are involved are 40% less likely to repeat a grade in school.

• Children with Fathers who are involved are 70% less likely to drop out of school.

• Children with Fathers who are involved are more likely to get A’s in school.

• Children with Fathers who are involved are more likely to enjoy school and engage in extracurricular activities.

• 75% of all adolescent patients in chemical abuse centers come from fatherless homes – 10 times the average.

Now let me stress that if you're guilty of a crime, you should do the sentence. I'm of the opinion that there shouldn't be any probation or paroles. It's unfair to the victims of the crimes!!!

But we obviously have a system of justice that isn't appled equally. If we were to start doing that...perhaps the slums would be smaller and perhaps less scary.

 

[Kosh]

And this thread proves once again that that the far left will never admit to be wrong, they would much rather watch the world burn and continue to post their programmed propaganda to support their religious beliefs.

 

[thanatos144]

And this thread proves once again that that the far left will never admit to be wrong, they would much rather watch the world burn and continue to post their programmed propaganda to support their religious beliefs.

Having the minority society kill itself to them isn't a mistake but a result they are gleeful about

 

[ChrisL]

Don't you think that has something to do with police officers having to go into these slums to serve warrants and on more than ONE occasion, having been attacked? Some of these neighborhoods are like war zones. I wouldn't want to go knocking on one of those thugs doors and then identify myself as an officer of the law. That's like a death warrant.

I don't necessarily agree with ALL of the things the police do and I do agree that sometimes it's just overkill, but at the same time they want to go home at night to their families and not be shot and killed unexpectedly by some demented thug in the hood.

I am not picking your post out to 'argue with" but there is a "set up" quality to your post.

Why are there slums? I'm not saying this is the only reason but our criminal justice system does seem to be a self-fulfilling prophecy. First if you look at the Stop and Frisk laws in New York:

If yous top 5 times as many blacks and 3 times as many latinos as you do whites, you're going to end up with more blacks and latinos doing time.

Next lets look at sentencing:

In the states listed, nearly 4 out of 10 more blacks than whites are sentenced to life without parole meaning they won't be there for their kids.

But it extends beyond there.


Even minor crimes (in comparison) come with catches (again, if you are white, you're a 1/10 to get frisked vs 6/10 for blacks). If you can post bail, you come back for trial where, if you're guilty, you're often assessed a fine that accrues annually

Sentenced to debt Some tossed in prison over unpaid fines - NBC News

As Court Fees Rise The Poor Are Paying The Price NPR

Welcome to Prison. Will You Be Paying Cash or Credit TIME.com

Anyway, slums are dangerous because of crime. Crime is there because there are so few fathers are a part of their kids lives....

Statistics

• 63% of youth suicides are from fatherless homes (US Dept. Of Health/Census) – 5 times the average.

• 90% of all homeless and runaway children are from fatherless homes – 32 times the average.

• 85% of all children who show behavior disorders come from fatherless homes – 20 times the average. (Center for Disease Control)

• 80% of rapists with anger problems come from fatherless homes –14 times the average. (Justice & Behavior, Vol 14, p. 403-26)

• 71% of all high school dropouts come from fatherless homes – 9 times the average. (National Principals Association Report)

Father Factor in Education - Fatherless children are twice as likely to drop out of school.

• Children with Fathers who are involved are 40% less likely to repeat a grade in school.

• Children with Fathers who are involved are 70% less likely to drop out of school.

• Children with Fathers who are involved are more likely to get A’s in school.

• Children with Fathers who are involved are more likely to enjoy school and engage in extracurricular activities.

• 75% of all adolescent patients in chemical abuse centers come from fatherless homes – 10 times the average.

Now let me stress that if you're guilty of a crime, you should do the sentence. I'm of the opinion that there shouldn't be any probation or paroles. It's unfair to the victims of the crimes!!!

But we obviously have a system of justice that isn't appled equally. If we were to start doing that...perhaps the slums would be smaller and perhaps less scary.

I agree with much of this. Very informative post. However, I think there are multiple factors involved.

I think the problem with the justice system, rather than color or race, is more money. Money talks in our justice system, obviously. Look at what the celebrities or rich can get away with that the rest of us would be thrown into jail for. Why? Because they have the money to buy the best lawyers while the poor people are stuck with the crappiest court-appointed lawyers who aren't really very motivated to put up a good defense.

 

[candycorn]

Don't you think that has something to do with police officers having to go into these slums to serve warrants and on more than ONE occasion, having been attacked? Some of these neighborhoods are like war zones. I wouldn't want to go knocking on one of those thugs doors and then identify myself as an officer of the law. That's like a death warrant.

I don't necessarily agree with ALL of the things the police do and I do agree that sometimes it's just overkill, but at the same time they want to go home at night to their families and not be shot and killed unexpectedly by some demented thug in the hood.

I am not picking your post out to 'argue with" but there is a "set up" quality to your post.

Why are there slums? I'm not saying this is the only reason but our criminal justice system does seem to be a self-fulfilling prophecy. First if you look at the Stop and Frisk laws in New York:

If yous top 5 times as many blacks and 3 times as many latinos as you do whites, you're going to end up with more blacks and latinos doing time.

Next lets look at sentencing:

In the states listed, nearly 4 out of 10 more blacks than whites are sentenced to life without parole meaning they won't be there for their kids.

But it extends beyond there.


Even minor crimes (in comparison) come with catches (again, if you are white, you're a 1/10 to get frisked vs 6/10 for blacks). If you can post bail, you come back for trial where, if you're guilty, you're often assessed a fine that accrues annually

Sentenced to debt Some tossed in prison over unpaid fines - NBC News

As Court Fees Rise The Poor Are Paying The Price NPR

Welcome to Prison. Will You Be Paying Cash or Credit TIME.com

Anyway, slums are dangerous because of crime. Crime is there because there are so few fathers are a part of their kids lives....

Statistics

• 63% of youth suicides are from fatherless homes (US Dept. Of Health/Census) – 5 times the average.

• 90% of all homeless and runaway children are from fatherless homes – 32 times the average.

• 85% of all children who show behavior disorders come from fatherless homes – 20 times the average. (Center for Disease Control)

• 80% of rapists with anger problems come from fatherless homes –14 times the average. (Justice & Behavior, Vol 14, p. 403-26)

• 71% of all high school dropouts come from fatherless homes – 9 times the average. (National Principals Association Report)

Father Factor in Education - Fatherless children are twice as likely to drop out of school.

• Children with Fathers who are involved are 40% less likely to repeat a grade in school.

• Children with Fathers who are involved are 70% less likely to drop out of school.

• Children with Fathers who are involved are more likely to get A’s in school.

• Children with Fathers who are involved are more likely to enjoy school and engage in extracurricular activities.

• 75% of all adolescent patients in chemical abuse centers come from fatherless homes – 10 times the average.

Now let me stress that if you're guilty of a crime, you should do the sentence. I'm of the opinion that there shouldn't be any probation or paroles. It's unfair to the victims of the crimes!!!

But we obviously have a system of justice that isn't appled equally. If we were to start doing that...perhaps the slums would be smaller and perhaps less scary.

I agree with much of this. Very informative post. However, I think there are multiple factors involved.

I think the problem with the justice system, rather than color or race, is more money. Money talks in our justice system, obviously. Look at what the celebrities or rich can get away with that the rest of us would be thrown into jail for. Why? Because they have the money to buy the best lawyers while the poor people are stuck with the crappiest court-appointed lawyers who aren't really very motivated to put up a good defense.

I'm not certain what you mean by "get away with". OJ may have beat the murder rap but everyone knew he was guilty. His civil suit was lost by OJ and he's now in jail because of larceny of all things. Wesley Snipes went to prison if not mistaken. Martha Stewart went to Prison. Christian Slater went to Prison. I won't go into how many presumably well off politicians are sitting in jail right now or athletes--special point about athletes however...for a lot of them this is their first brush with the law and some leniency is to be expected. Celebrity may play a role as well.

As for the OP subject...it gets into the political somewhat I suppose but one of the reasons blacks (the majority of) and Latinos (the majority of) are experiencing generational poverty is that we incarcerate the non-White people for longer sentences than we do Caucasians. This is the function of the juries and it is also the function of the idiotic fees and payments that we force people to make. Not only are you serving a sentence but you often have to pay a fine or restitution beyond that. And when you can't make he payment, you are further incarcerated.

The net result is that the children of incarcerated blacks and Latinos grow up fatherless. So guess what happens...they either turn to a life of crime or they are not instructed what it takes to raise a family....they drop out of school to take a $10.00 an hour job because the money seems pretty sweet living at home. In the real world, you'll need serious welfare to help you make it on $10 an hour unless you're uniquely equipped to live on less.

Obviously, there are people of all races who when facing the specter of being there and paying for a child who are going to split regardless of gender or race. And if they were equipped in both areas, they still wouldn't want to do it. Further, a 4 year old knows the difference between right and wrong and if you break the law, you should be put away for the sentence given--but that sentence should be the same for everyone.

 

[Meathead]

Don't you think that has something to do with police officers having to go into these slums to serve warrants and on more than ONE occasion, having been attacked? Some of these neighborhoods are like war zones. I wouldn't want to go knocking on one of those thugs doors and then identify myself as an officer of the law. That's like a death warrant.

I don't necessarily agree with ALL of the things the police do and I do agree that sometimes it's just overkill, but at the same time they want to go home at night to their families and not be shot and killed unexpectedly by some demented thug in the hood.

I am not picking your post out to 'argue with" but there is a "set up" quality to your post.

Why are there slums? I'm not saying this is the only reason but our criminal justice system does seem to be a self-fulfilling prophecy. First if you look at the Stop and Frisk laws in New York:

If yous top 5 times as many blacks and 3 times as many latinos as you do whites, you're going to end up with more blacks and latinos doing time.

Next lets look at sentencing:

In the states listed, nearly 4 out of 10 more blacks than whites are sentenced to life without parole meaning they won't be there for their kids.

But it extends beyond there.


Even minor crimes (in comparison) come with catches (again, if you are white, you're a 1/10 to get frisked vs 6/10 for blacks). If you can post bail, you come back for trial where, if you're guilty, you're often assessed a fine that accrues annually

Sentenced to debt Some tossed in prison over unpaid fines - NBC News

As Court Fees Rise The Poor Are Paying The Price NPR

Welcome to Prison. Will You Be Paying Cash or Credit TIME.com

Anyway, slums are dangerous because of crime. Crime is there because there are so few fathers are a part of their kids lives....

Statistics

• 63% of youth suicides are from fatherless homes (US Dept. Of Health/Census) – 5 times the average.

• 90% of all homeless and runaway children are from fatherless homes – 32 times the average.

• 85% of all children who show behavior disorders come from fatherless homes – 20 times the average. (Center for Disease Control)

• 80% of rapists with anger problems come from fatherless homes –14 times the average. (Justice & Behavior, Vol 14, p. 403-26)

• 71% of all high school dropouts come from fatherless homes – 9 times the average. (National Principals Association Report)

Father Factor in Education - Fatherless children are twice as likely to drop out of school.

• Children with Fathers who are involved are 40% less likely to repeat a grade in school.

• Children with Fathers who are involved are 70% less likely to drop out of school.

• Children with Fathers who are involved are more likely to get A’s in school.

• Children with Fathers who are involved are more likely to enjoy school and engage in extracurricular activities.

• 75% of all adolescent patients in chemical abuse centers come from fatherless homes – 10 times the average.

Now let me stress that if you're guilty of a crime, you should do the sentence. I'm of the opinion that there shouldn't be any probation or paroles. It's unfair to the victims of the crimes!!!

But we obviously have a system of justice that isn't appled equally. If we were to start doing that...perhaps the slums would be smaller and perhaps less scary.

I agree with much of this. Very informative post. However, I think there are multiple factors involved.

I think the problem with the justice system, rather than color or race, is more money. Money talks in our justice system, obviously. Look at what the celebrities or rich can get away with that the rest of us would be thrown into jail for. Why? Because they have the money to buy the best lawyers while the poor people are stuck with the crappiest court-appointed lawyers who aren't really very motivated to put up a good defense.

I'm not certain what you mean by "get away with". OJ may have beat the murder rap but everyone knew he was guilty. His civil suit was lost by OJ and he's now in jail because of larceny of all things. Wesley Snipes went to prison if not mistaken. Martha Stewart went to Prison. Christian Slater went to Prison. I won't go into how many presumably well off politicians are sitting in jail right now or athletes--special point about athletes however...for a lot of them this is their first brush with the law and some leniency is to be expected. Celebrity may play a role as well.

As for the OP subject...it gets into the political somewhat I suppose but one of the reasons blacks (the majority of) and Latinos (the majority of) are experiencing generational poverty is that we incarcerate the non-White people for longer sentences than we do Caucasians. This is the function of the juries and it is also the function of the idiotic fees and payments that we force people to make. Not only are you serving a sentence but you often have to pay a fine or restitution beyond that. And when you can't make he payment, you are further incarcerated.

The net result is that the children of incarcerated blacks and Latinos grow up fatherless. So guess what happens...they either turn to a life of crime or they are not instructed what it takes to raise a family....they drop out of school to take a $10.00 an hour job because the money seems pretty sweet living at home. In the real world, you'll need serious welfare to help you make it on $10 an hour unless you're uniquely equipped to live on less.

Obviously, there are people of all races who when facing the specter of being there and paying for a child who are going to split regardless of gender or race. And if they were equipped in both areas, they still wouldn't want to do it. Further, a 4 year old knows the difference between right and wrong and if you break the law, you should be put away for the sentence given--but that sentence should be the same for everyone.

I've seldom seen such a train wreck of gobbledygook.

 

[ChrisL]

Don't you think that has something to do with police officers having to go into these slums to serve warrants and on more than ONE occasion, having been attacked? Some of these neighborhoods are like war zones. I wouldn't want to go knocking on one of those thugs doors and then identify myself as an officer of the law. That's like a death warrant.

I don't necessarily agree with ALL of the things the police do and I do agree that sometimes it's just overkill, but at the same time they want to go home at night to their families and not be shot and killed unexpectedly by some demented thug in the hood.

I am not picking your post out to 'argue with" but there is a "set up" quality to your post.

Why are there slums? I'm not saying this is the only reason but our criminal justice system does seem to be a self-fulfilling prophecy. First if you look at the Stop and Frisk laws in New York:

If yous top 5 times as many blacks and 3 times as many latinos as you do whites, you're going to end up with more blacks and latinos doing time.

Next lets look at sentencing:

In the states listed, nearly 4 out of 10 more blacks than whites are sentenced to life without parole meaning they won't be there for their kids.

But it extends beyond there.


Even minor crimes (in comparison) come with catches (again, if you are white, you're a 1/10 to get frisked vs 6/10 for blacks). If you can post bail, you come back for trial where, if you're guilty, you're often assessed a fine that accrues annually

Sentenced to debt Some tossed in prison over unpaid fines - NBC News

As Court Fees Rise The Poor Are Paying The Price NPR

Welcome to Prison. Will You Be Paying Cash or Credit TIME.com

Anyway, slums are dangerous because of crime. Crime is there because there are so few fathers are a part of their kids lives....

Statistics

• 63% of youth suicides are from fatherless homes (US Dept. Of Health/Census) – 5 times the average.

• 90% of all homeless and runaway children are from fatherless homes – 32 times the average.

• 85% of all children who show behavior disorders come from fatherless homes – 20 times the average. (Center for Disease Control)

• 80% of rapists with anger problems come from fatherless homes –14 times the average. (Justice & Behavior, Vol 14, p. 403-26)

• 71% of all high school dropouts come from fatherless homes – 9 times the average. (National Principals Association Report)

Father Factor in Education - Fatherless children are twice as likely to drop out of school.

• Children with Fathers who are involved are 40% less likely to repeat a grade in school.

• Children with Fathers who are involved are 70% less likely to drop out of school.

• Children with Fathers who are involved are more likely to get A’s in school.

• Children with Fathers who are involved are more likely to enjoy school and engage in extracurricular activities.

• 75% of all adolescent patients in chemical abuse centers come from fatherless homes – 10 times the average.

Now let me stress that if you're guilty of a crime, you should do the sentence. I'm of the opinion that there shouldn't be any probation or paroles. It's unfair to the victims of the crimes!!!

But we obviously have a system of justice that isn't appled equally. If we were to start doing that...perhaps the slums would be smaller and perhaps less scary.

I agree with much of this. Very informative post. However, I think there are multiple factors involved.

I think the problem with the justice system, rather than color or race, is more money. Money talks in our justice system, obviously. Look at what the celebrities or rich can get away with that the rest of us would be thrown into jail for. Why? Because they have the money to buy the best lawyers while the poor people are stuck with the crappiest court-appointed lawyers who aren't really very motivated to put up a good defense.

I'm not certain what you mean by "get away with". OJ may have beat the murder rap but everyone knew he was guilty. His civil suit was lost by OJ and he's now in jail because of larceny of all things. Wesley Snipes went to prison if not mistaken. Martha Stewart went to Prison. Christian Slater went to Prison. I won't go into how many presumably well off politicians are sitting in jail right now or athletes--special point about athletes however...for a lot of them this is their first brush with the law and some leniency is to be expected. Celebrity may play a role as well.

As for the OP subject...it gets into the political somewhat I suppose but one of the reasons blacks (the majority of) and Latinos (the majority of) are experiencing generational poverty is that we incarcerate the non-White people for longer sentences than we do Caucasians. This is the function of the juries and it is also the function of the idiotic fees and payments that we force people to make. Not only are you serving a sentence but you often have to pay a fine or restitution beyond that. And when you can't make he payment, you are further incarcerated.

The net result is that the children of incarcerated blacks and Latinos grow up fatherless. So guess what happens...they either turn to a life of crime or they are not instructed what it takes to raise a family....they drop out of school to take a $10.00 an hour job because the money seems pretty sweet living at home. In the real world, you'll need serious welfare to help you make it on $10 an hour unless you're uniquely equipped to live on less.

Obviously, there are people of all races who when facing the specter of being there and paying for a child who are going to split regardless of gender or race. And if they were equipped in both areas, they still wouldn't want to do it. Further, a 4 year old knows the difference between right and wrong and if you break the law, you should be put away for the sentence given--but that sentence should be the same for everyone.

Look, the bottom line is money. It doesn't matter if you are black or white anymore. MONEY talks. We have black and white people throughout government and justice system. I don't buy your "systemic racism" bull crap.

 

[candycorn]

Don't you think that has something to do with police officers having to go into these slums to serve warrants and on more than ONE occasion, having been attacked? Some of these neighborhoods are like war zones. I wouldn't want to go knocking on one of those thugs doors and then identify myself as an officer of the law. That's like a death warrant.

I don't necessarily agree with ALL of the things the police do and I do agree that sometimes it's just overkill, but at the same time they want to go home at night to their families and not be shot and killed unexpectedly by some demented thug in the hood.

I am not picking your post out to 'argue with" but there is a "set up" quality to your post.

Why are there slums? I'm not saying this is the only reason but our criminal justice system does seem to be a self-fulfilling prophecy. First if you look at the Stop and Frisk laws in New York:

If yous top 5 times as many blacks and 3 times as many latinos as you do whites, you're going to end up with more blacks and latinos doing time.

Next lets look at sentencing:

In the states listed, nearly 4 out of 10 more blacks than whites are sentenced to life without parole meaning they won't be there for their kids.

But it extends beyond there.


Even minor crimes (in comparison) come with catches (again, if you are white, you're a 1/10 to get frisked vs 6/10 for blacks). If you can post bail, you come back for trial where, if you're guilty, you're often assessed a fine that accrues annually

Sentenced to debt Some tossed in prison over unpaid fines - NBC News

As Court Fees Rise The Poor Are Paying The Price NPR

Welcome to Prison. Will You Be Paying Cash or Credit TIME.com

Anyway, slums are dangerous because of crime. Crime is there because there are so few fathers are a part of their kids lives....

Statistics

• 63% of youth suicides are from fatherless homes (US Dept. Of Health/Census) – 5 times the average.

• 90% of all homeless and runaway children are from fatherless homes – 32 times the average.

• 85% of all children who show behavior disorders come from fatherless homes – 20 times the average. (Center for Disease Control)

• 80% of rapists with anger problems come from fatherless homes –14 times the average. (Justice & Behavior, Vol 14, p. 403-26)

• 71% of all high school dropouts come from fatherless homes – 9 times the average. (National Principals Association Report)

Father Factor in Education - Fatherless children are twice as likely to drop out of school.

• Children with Fathers who are involved are 40% less likely to repeat a grade in school.

• Children with Fathers who are involved are 70% less likely to drop out of school.

• Children with Fathers who are involved are more likely to get A’s in school.

• Children with Fathers who are involved are more likely to enjoy school and engage in extracurricular activities.

• 75% of all adolescent patients in chemical abuse centers come from fatherless homes – 10 times the average.

Now let me stress that if you're guilty of a crime, you should do the sentence. I'm of the opinion that there shouldn't be any probation or paroles. It's unfair to the victims of the crimes!!!

But we obviously have a system of justice that isn't appled equally. If we were to start doing that...perhaps the slums would be smaller and perhaps less scary.

I agree with much of this. Very informative post. However, I think there are multiple factors involved.

I think the problem with the justice system, rather than color or race, is more money. Money talks in our justice system, obviously. Look at what the celebrities or rich can get away with that the rest of us would be thrown into jail for. Why? Because they have the money to buy the best lawyers while the poor people are stuck with the crappiest court-appointed lawyers who aren't really very motivated to put up a good defense.

I'm not certain what you mean by "get away with". OJ may have beat the murder rap but everyone knew he was guilty. His civil suit was lost by OJ and he's now in jail because of larceny of all things. Wesley Snipes went to prison if not mistaken. Martha Stewart went to Prison. Christian Slater went to Prison. I won't go into how many presumably well off politicians are sitting in jail right now or athletes--special point about athletes however...for a lot of them this is their first brush with the law and some leniency is to be expected. Celebrity may play a role as well.

As for the OP subject...it gets into the political somewhat I suppose but one of the reasons blacks (the majority of) and Latinos (the majority of) are experiencing generational poverty is that we incarcerate the non-White people for longer sentences than we do Caucasians. This is the function of the juries and it is also the function of the idiotic fees and payments that we force people to make. Not only are you serving a sentence but you often have to pay a fine or restitution beyond that. And when you can't make he payment, you are further incarcerated.

The net result is that the children of incarcerated blacks and Latinos grow up fatherless. So guess what happens...they either turn to a life of crime or they are not instructed what it takes to raise a family....they drop out of school to take a $10.00 an hour job because the money seems pretty sweet living at home. In the real world, you'll need serious welfare to help you make it on $10 an hour unless you're uniquely equipped to live on less.

Obviously, there are people of all races who when facing the specter of being there and paying for a child who are going to split regardless of gender or race. And if they were equipped in both areas, they still wouldn't want to do it. Further, a 4 year old knows the difference between right and wrong and if you break the law, you should be put away for the sentence given--but that sentence should be the same for everyone.

Look, the bottom line is money. It doesn't matter if you are black or white anymore. MONEY talks. We have black and white people throughout government and justice system. I don't buy your "systemic racism" bull crap.

Facts do not cease to be facts because you find them inconvenient.

 

[ChrisL]

Don't you think that has something to do with police officers having to go into these slums to serve warrants and on more than ONE occasion, having been attacked? Some of these neighborhoods are like war zones. I wouldn't want to go knocking on one of those thugs doors and then identify myself as an officer of the law. That's like a death warrant.

I don't necessarily agree with ALL of the things the police do and I do agree that sometimes it's just overkill, but at the same time they want to go home at night to their families and not be shot and killed unexpectedly by some demented thug in the hood.

I am not picking your post out to 'argue with" but there is a "set up" quality to your post.

Why are there slums? I'm not saying this is the only reason but our criminal justice system does seem to be a self-fulfilling prophecy. First if you look at the Stop and Frisk laws in New York:

If yous top 5 times as many blacks and 3 times as many latinos as you do whites, you're going to end up with more blacks and latinos doing time.

Next lets look at sentencing:

In the states listed, nearly 4 out of 10 more blacks than whites are sentenced to life without parole meaning they won't be there for their kids.

But it extends beyond there.


Even minor crimes (in comparison) come with catches (again, if you are white, you're a 1/10 to get frisked vs 6/10 for blacks). If you can post bail, you come back for trial where, if you're guilty, you're often assessed a fine that accrues annually

Sentenced to debt Some tossed in prison over unpaid fines - NBC News

As Court Fees Rise The Poor Are Paying The Price NPR

Welcome to Prison. Will You Be Paying Cash or Credit TIME.com

Anyway, slums are dangerous because of crime. Crime is there because there are so few fathers are a part of their kids lives....

Statistics

• 63% of youth suicides are from fatherless homes (US Dept. Of Health/Census) – 5 times the average.

• 90% of all homeless and runaway children are from fatherless homes – 32 times the average.

• 85% of all children who show behavior disorders come from fatherless homes – 20 times the average. (Center for Disease Control)

• 80% of rapists with anger problems come from fatherless homes –14 times the average. (Justice & Behavior, Vol 14, p. 403-26)

• 71% of all high school dropouts come from fatherless homes – 9 times the average. (National Principals Association Report)

Father Factor in Education - Fatherless children are twice as likely to drop out of school.

• Children with Fathers who are involved are 40% less likely to repeat a grade in school.

• Children with Fathers who are involved are 70% less likely to drop out of school.

• Children with Fathers who are involved are more likely to get A’s in school.

• Children with Fathers who are involved are more likely to enjoy school and engage in extracurricular activities.

• 75% of all adolescent patients in chemical abuse centers come from fatherless homes – 10 times the average.

Now let me stress that if you're guilty of a crime, you should do the sentence. I'm of the opinion that there shouldn't be any probation or paroles. It's unfair to the victims of the crimes!!!

But we obviously have a system of justice that isn't appled equally. If we were to start doing that...perhaps the slums would be smaller and perhaps less scary.

I agree with much of this. Very informative post. However, I think there are multiple factors involved.

I think the problem with the justice system, rather than color or race, is more money. Money talks in our justice system, obviously. Look at what the celebrities or rich can get away with that the rest of us would be thrown into jail for. Why? Because they have the money to buy the best lawyers while the poor people are stuck with the crappiest court-appointed lawyers who aren't really very motivated to put up a good defense.

I'm not certain what you mean by "get away with". OJ may have beat the murder rap but everyone knew he was guilty. His civil suit was lost by OJ and he's now in jail because of larceny of all things. Wesley Snipes went to prison if not mistaken. Martha Stewart went to Prison. Christian Slater went to Prison. I won't go into how many presumably well off politicians are sitting in jail right now or athletes--special point about athletes however...for a lot of them this is their first brush with the law and some leniency is to be expected. Celebrity may play a role as well.

As for the OP subject...it gets into the political somewhat I suppose but one of the reasons blacks (the majority of) and Latinos (the majority of) are experiencing generational poverty is that we incarcerate the non-White people for longer sentences than we do Caucasians. This is the function of the juries and it is also the function of the idiotic fees and payments that we force people to make. Not only are you serving a sentence but you often have to pay a fine or restitution beyond that. And when you can't make he payment, you are further incarcerated.

The net result is that the children of incarcerated blacks and Latinos grow up fatherless. So guess what happens...they either turn to a life of crime or they are not instructed what it takes to raise a family....they drop out of school to take a $10.00 an hour job because the money seems pretty sweet living at home. In the real world, you'll need serious welfare to help you make it on $10 an hour unless you're uniquely equipped to live on less.

Obviously, there are people of all races who when facing the specter of being there and paying for a child who are going to split regardless of gender or race. And if they were equipped in both areas, they still wouldn't want to do it. Further, a 4 year old knows the difference between right and wrong and if you break the law, you should be put away for the sentence given--but that sentence should be the same for everyone.

Look, the bottom line is money. It doesn't matter if you are black or white anymore. MONEY talks. We have black and white people throughout government and justice system. I don't buy your "systemic racism" bull crap.

Facts do not cease to be facts because you find them inconvenient.

They aren't facts. There are many possible causative factors, and most of it has to do with money. Just because you want to try and correlate it to race, doesn't make it so.

IF what you claimed is true, then OJ Simpson would have received a kangaroo court, and he would have been CONVICTED for murdering two white people. However, he was loaded at the time, could afford the best defense team (or allegedly the best - lol) that money could buy. It had NOTHING to do with the color of his skin!!??

Inconvenient? Not.