Should race-baiting demagogues share blame for two murdered NYPD cops?

[candycorn]

I am not picking your post out to 'argue with" but there is a "set up" quality to your post.

Why are there slums? I'm not saying this is the only reason but our criminal justice system does seem to be a self-fulfilling prophecy. First if you look at the Stop and Frisk laws in New York:

If yous top 5 times as many blacks and 3 times as many latinos as you do whites, you're going to end up with more blacks and latinos doing time.

Next lets look at sentencing:

In the states listed, nearly 4 out of 10 more blacks than whites are sentenced to life without parole meaning they won't be there for their kids.

But it extends beyond there.


Even minor crimes (in comparison) come with catches (again, if you are white, you're a 1/10 to get frisked vs 6/10 for blacks). If you can post bail, you come back for trial where, if you're guilty, you're often assessed a fine that accrues annually

Sentenced to debt Some tossed in prison over unpaid fines - NBC News

As Court Fees Rise The Poor Are Paying The Price NPR

Welcome to Prison. Will You Be Paying Cash or Credit TIME.com

Anyway, slums are dangerous because of crime. Crime is there because there are so few fathers are a part of their kids lives....

Statistics

• 63% of youth suicides are from fatherless homes (US Dept. Of Health/Census) – 5 times the average.

• 90% of all homeless and runaway children are from fatherless homes – 32 times the average.

• 85% of all children who show behavior disorders come from fatherless homes – 20 times the average. (Center for Disease Control)

• 80% of rapists with anger problems come from fatherless homes –14 times the average. (Justice & Behavior, Vol 14, p. 403-26)

• 71% of all high school dropouts come from fatherless homes – 9 times the average. (National Principals Association Report)

Father Factor in Education - Fatherless children are twice as likely to drop out of school.

• Children with Fathers who are involved are 40% less likely to repeat a grade in school.

• Children with Fathers who are involved are 70% less likely to drop out of school.

• Children with Fathers who are involved are more likely to get A’s in school.

• Children with Fathers who are involved are more likely to enjoy school and engage in extracurricular activities.

• 75% of all adolescent patients in chemical abuse centers come from fatherless homes – 10 times the average.

Now let me stress that if you're guilty of a crime, you should do the sentence. I'm of the opinion that there shouldn't be any probation or paroles. It's unfair to the victims of the crimes!!!

But we obviously have a system of justice that isn't appled equally. If we were to start doing that...perhaps the slums would be smaller and perhaps less scary.

I agree with much of this. Very informative post. However, I think there are multiple factors involved.

I think the problem with the justice system, rather than color or race, is more money. Money talks in our justice system, obviously. Look at what the celebrities or rich can get away with that the rest of us would be thrown into jail for. Why? Because they have the money to buy the best lawyers while the poor people are stuck with the crappiest court-appointed lawyers who aren't really very motivated to put up a good defense.

I'm not certain what you mean by "get away with". OJ may have beat the murder rap but everyone knew he was guilty. His civil suit was lost by OJ and he's now in jail because of larceny of all things. Wesley Snipes went to prison if not mistaken. Martha Stewart went to Prison. Christian Slater went to Prison. I won't go into how many presumably well off politicians are sitting in jail right now or athletes--special point about athletes however...for a lot of them this is their first brush with the law and some leniency is to be expected. Celebrity may play a role as well.

As for the OP subject...it gets into the political somewhat I suppose but one of the reasons blacks (the majority of) and Latinos (the majority of) are experiencing generational poverty is that we incarcerate the non-White people for longer sentences than we do Caucasians. This is the function of the juries and it is also the function of the idiotic fees and payments that we force people to make. Not only are you serving a sentence but you often have to pay a fine or restitution beyond that. And when you can't make he payment, you are further incarcerated.

The net result is that the children of incarcerated blacks and Latinos grow up fatherless. So guess what happens...they either turn to a life of crime or they are not instructed what it takes to raise a family....they drop out of school to take a $10.00 an hour job because the money seems pretty sweet living at home. In the real world, you'll need serious welfare to help you make it on $10 an hour unless you're uniquely equipped to live on less.

Obviously, there are people of all races who when facing the specter of being there and paying for a child who are going to split regardless of gender or race. And if they were equipped in both areas, they still wouldn't want to do it. Further, a 4 year old knows the difference between right and wrong and if you break the law, you should be put away for the sentence given--but that sentence should be the same for everyone.

Look, the bottom line is money. It doesn't matter if you are black or white anymore. MONEY talks. We have black and white people throughout government and justice system. I don't buy your "systemic racism" bull crap.

Facts do not cease to be facts because you find them inconvenient.

They aren't facts.

Sure they are.

There are many possible causative factors, and most of it has to do with money. Just because you want to try and correlate it to race, doesn't make it so.

You brought up slums. Are you aware of a lot of white slums (Mississippi not withstanding)? Sure there are some whites living in slums but I doubt you were referring to them...

IF what you claimed is true, then OJ Simpson would have received a kangaroo court, and he would have been CONVICTED for murdering two white people. However, he was loaded at the time, could afford the best defense team (or allegedly the best - lol) that money could buy. It had NOTHING to do with the color of his skin!!??

Martha Stewart wasn't loaded? Presumably rich athletes like Rae Carruth, Pete Rose, Denny MacLain, Mike Tyson, Steve Howe, and 2 players off of every NFL team (on average) aren't loaded? They went to jail.

Michael Vick had something like $8 million in the bank when he went to jail.
Floyd Maywhether has something like $80M in the bank.


The outlier you picked was OJ which had other factors such as an 11 month trial with a sequestered jury, a joke of a prosecution team, which didn't bring up the chase or the curious things OJ had with him during the chase (a loaded gun, fake beard and mustache, $8 large in cash, etc...),and yes OJ was rich at the time. It certainly doesn't hurt and there is some validity to what you say. But there are plenty of rich folks in jail.

I'm not sure why you picked up on his skin color but whatever...

Inconvenient? Not.

I've showed you that the Stop&Frisk laws in NYC were far more often applied to blacks than whites
I've showed you facts that blacks are sentenced to Life without Parole more often than whites.
I've showed you that kids that grow up fatherless--as our justice system ensures some blacks are-- are far more pre-disposed to likely live in the "slums" as you pointed out are dangerous.

You are contesting that if you search more blacks than whites--6 times as many, it will have no bearing on the number of blacks being arrested compared to whites

You are contesting that "it's bullshit" that blacks are sentenced to LIPWP more often than whites even though it has been shown to you.

As for fatherless youths and those without father figures ending up in trouble...it's silly to argue otherwise but there you are...doing just that.

I could should you more stats:

I'm sure the above is a coincidence....

 

[ChrisL]

I agree with much of this. Very informative post. However, I think there are multiple factors involved.

I think the problem with the justice system, rather than color or race, is more money. Money talks in our justice system, obviously. Look at what the celebrities or rich can get away with that the rest of us would be thrown into jail for. Why? Because they have the money to buy the best lawyers while the poor people are stuck with the crappiest court-appointed lawyers who aren't really very motivated to put up a good defense.

I'm not certain what you mean by "get away with". OJ may have beat the murder rap but everyone knew he was guilty. His civil suit was lost by OJ and he's now in jail because of larceny of all things. Wesley Snipes went to prison if not mistaken. Martha Stewart went to Prison. Christian Slater went to Prison. I won't go into how many presumably well off politicians are sitting in jail right now or athletes--special point about athletes however...for a lot of them this is their first brush with the law and some leniency is to be expected. Celebrity may play a role as well.

As for the OP subject...it gets into the political somewhat I suppose but one of the reasons blacks (the majority of) and Latinos (the majority of) are experiencing generational poverty is that we incarcerate the non-White people for longer sentences than we do Caucasians. This is the function of the juries and it is also the function of the idiotic fees and payments that we force people to make. Not only are you serving a sentence but you often have to pay a fine or restitution beyond that. And when you can't make he payment, you are further incarcerated.

The net result is that the children of incarcerated blacks and Latinos grow up fatherless. So guess what happens...they either turn to a life of crime or they are not instructed what it takes to raise a family....they drop out of school to take a $10.00 an hour job because the money seems pretty sweet living at home. In the real world, you'll need serious welfare to help you make it on $10 an hour unless you're uniquely equipped to live on less.

Obviously, there are people of all races who when facing the specter of being there and paying for a child who are going to split regardless of gender or race. And if they were equipped in both areas, they still wouldn't want to do it. Further, a 4 year old knows the difference between right and wrong and if you break the law, you should be put away for the sentence given--but that sentence should be the same for everyone.

Look, the bottom line is money. It doesn't matter if you are black or white anymore. MONEY talks. We have black and white people throughout government and justice system. I don't buy your "systemic racism" bull crap.

Facts do not cease to be facts because you find them inconvenient.

They aren't facts.

Sure they are.

There are many possible causative factors, and most of it has to do with money. Just because you want to try and correlate it to race, doesn't make it so.

You brought up slums. Are you aware of a lot of white slums (Mississippi not withstanding)? Sure there are some whites living in slums but I doubt you were referring to them...

IF what you claimed is true, then OJ Simpson would have received a kangaroo court, and he would have been CONVICTED for murdering two white people. However, he was loaded at the time, could afford the best defense team (or allegedly the best - lol) that money could buy. It had NOTHING to do with the color of his skin!!??

Martha Stewart wasn't loaded? Presumably rich athletes like Rae Carruth, Pete Rose, Denny MacLain, Mike Tyson, Steve Howe, and 2 players off of every NFL team (on average) aren't loaded? They went to jail.

Michael Vick had something like $8 million in the bank when he went to jail.
Floyd Maywhether has something like $80M in the bank.


The outlier you picked was OJ which had other factors such as an 11 month trial with a sequestered jury, a joke of a prosecution team, which didn't bring up the chase or the curious things OJ had with him during the chase (a loaded gun, fake beard and mustache, $8 large in cash, etc...),and yes OJ was rich at the time. It certainly doesn't hurt and there is some validity to what you say. But there are plenty of rich folks in jail.

I'm not sure why you picked up on his skin color but whatever...

Inconvenient? Not.

I've showed you that the Stop&Frisk laws in NYC were far more often applied to blacks than whites
I've showed you facts that blacks are sentenced to Life without Parole more often than whites.
I've showed you that kids that grow up fatherless--as our justice system ensures some blacks are-- are far more pre-disposed to likely live in the "slums" as you pointed out are dangerous.

You are contesting that if you search more blacks than whites--6 times as many, it will have no bearing on the number of blacks being arrested compared to whites

You are contesting that "it's bullshit" that blacks are sentenced to LIPWP more often than whites even though it has been shown to you.

As for fatherless youths and those without father figures ending up in trouble...it's silly to argue otherwise but there you are...doing just that.

I could should you more stats:

I'm sure the above is a coincidence....

Yes, that is because the percentage of blacks living in poverty is more than that of whites, or any other ethnicity. Because of this, they are more apt to be committing crimes. As far as the justice system goes though, there is no conspiracy! There are black judges, black defense lawyers, black prosecutors, black policemen (who may even be the MAJORITY in some of these more poor neighborhoods). Your stats do not prove causation. It's much more complicated than "racism." That is why the black on black crime rates in such neighborhoods, along with gang criminal activity, is pretty prevalent. Even other black people who are honest and live in such neighborhoods are afraid to step up.

 

[thanatos144]

The breakdown of the black community is solely the result democrats

 

[paulitician]

Yes, but they won't be. They hold top leadership positions in the Democratic Party. They will not be held accountable. The Communist Organizer Divide & Conquer reign of terror will continue. At least until people become enlightened and see them for the shameful dividers they are.

 

[candycorn]

I'm not certain what you mean by "get away with". OJ may have beat the murder rap but everyone knew he was guilty. His civil suit was lost by OJ and he's now in jail because of larceny of all things. Wesley Snipes went to prison if not mistaken. Martha Stewart went to Prison. Christian Slater went to Prison. I won't go into how many presumably well off politicians are sitting in jail right now or athletes--special point about athletes however...for a lot of them this is their first brush with the law and some leniency is to be expected. Celebrity may play a role as well.

As for the OP subject...it gets into the political somewhat I suppose but one of the reasons blacks (the majority of) and Latinos (the majority of) are experiencing generational poverty is that we incarcerate the non-White people for longer sentences than we do Caucasians. This is the function of the juries and it is also the function of the idiotic fees and payments that we force people to make. Not only are you serving a sentence but you often have to pay a fine or restitution beyond that. And when you can't make he payment, you are further incarcerated.

The net result is that the children of incarcerated blacks and Latinos grow up fatherless. So guess what happens...they either turn to a life of crime or they are not instructed what it takes to raise a family....they drop out of school to take a $10.00 an hour job because the money seems pretty sweet living at home. In the real world, you'll need serious welfare to help you make it on $10 an hour unless you're uniquely equipped to live on less.

Obviously, there are people of all races who when facing the specter of being there and paying for a child who are going to split regardless of gender or race. And if they were equipped in both areas, they still wouldn't want to do it. Further, a 4 year old knows the difference between right and wrong and if you break the law, you should be put away for the sentence given--but that sentence should be the same for everyone.

Look, the bottom line is money. It doesn't matter if you are black or white anymore. MONEY talks. We have black and white people throughout government and justice system. I don't buy your "systemic racism" bull crap.

Facts do not cease to be facts because you find them inconvenient.

They aren't facts.

Sure they are.

There are many possible causative factors, and most of it has to do with money. Just because you want to try and correlate it to race, doesn't make it so.

You brought up slums. Are you aware of a lot of white slums (Mississippi not withstanding)? Sure there are some whites living in slums but I doubt you were referring to them...

IF what you claimed is true, then OJ Simpson would have received a kangaroo court, and he would have been CONVICTED for murdering two white people. However, he was loaded at the time, could afford the best defense team (or allegedly the best - lol) that money could buy. It had NOTHING to do with the color of his skin!!??

Martha Stewart wasn't loaded? Presumably rich athletes like Rae Carruth, Pete Rose, Denny MacLain, Mike Tyson, Steve Howe, and 2 players off of every NFL team (on average) aren't loaded? They went to jail.

Michael Vick had something like $8 million in the bank when he went to jail.
Floyd Maywhether has something like $80M in the bank.


The outlier you picked was OJ which had other factors such as an 11 month trial with a sequestered jury, a joke of a prosecution team, which didn't bring up the chase or the curious things OJ had with him during the chase (a loaded gun, fake beard and mustache, $8 large in cash, etc...),and yes OJ was rich at the time. It certainly doesn't hurt and there is some validity to what you say. But there are plenty of rich folks in jail.

I'm not sure why you picked up on his skin color but whatever...

Inconvenient? Not.

I've showed you that the Stop&Frisk laws in NYC were far more often applied to blacks than whites
I've showed you facts that blacks are sentenced to Life without Parole more often than whites.
I've showed you that kids that grow up fatherless--as our justice system ensures some blacks are-- are far more pre-disposed to likely live in the "slums" as you pointed out are dangerous.

You are contesting that if you search more blacks than whites--6 times as many, it will have no bearing on the number of blacks being arrested compared to whites

You are contesting that "it's bullshit" that blacks are sentenced to LIPWP more often than whites even though it has been shown to you.

As for fatherless youths and those without father figures ending up in trouble...it's silly to argue otherwise but there you are...doing just that.

I could should you more stats:

I'm sure the above is a coincidence....

Yes, that is because the percentage of blacks living in poverty is more than that of whites, or any other ethnicity. Because of this, they are more apt to be committing crimes. As far as the justice system goes though, there is no conspiracy! There are black judges, black defense lawyers, black prosecutors, black policemen (who may even be the MAJORITY in some of these more poor neighborhoods). Your stats do not prove causation. It's much more complicated than "racism." That is why the black on black crime rates in such neighborhoods, along with gang criminal activity, is pretty prevalent. Even other black people who are honest and live in such neighborhoods are afraid to step up.

Let me ask you another question...do you believe that Blacks are genetically pre-disposed to criminal behavior, that they want to live in poverty, making 10-15 thousand a year off of government hand-outs?

 

[Neil N. Blowme]

 

[thanatos144]

Look, the bottom line is money. It doesn't matter if you are black or white anymore. MONEY talks. We have black and white people throughout government and justice system. I don't buy your "systemic racism" bull crap.

Facts do not cease to be facts because you find them inconvenient.

They aren't facts.

Sure they are.

There are many possible causative factors, and most of it has to do with money. Just because you want to try and correlate it to race, doesn't make it so.

You brought up slums. Are you aware of a lot of white slums (Mississippi not withstanding)? Sure there are some whites living in slums but I doubt you were referring to them...

IF what you claimed is true, then OJ Simpson would have received a kangaroo court, and he would have been CONVICTED for murdering two white people. However, he was loaded at the time, could afford the best defense team (or allegedly the best - lol) that money could buy. It had NOTHING to do with the color of his skin!!??

Martha Stewart wasn't loaded? Presumably rich athletes like Rae Carruth, Pete Rose, Denny MacLain, Mike Tyson, Steve Howe, and 2 players off of every NFL team (on average) aren't loaded? They went to jail.

Michael Vick had something like $8 million in the bank when he went to jail.
Floyd Maywhether has something like $80M in the bank.


The outlier you picked was OJ which had other factors such as an 11 month trial with a sequestered jury, a joke of a prosecution team, which didn't bring up the chase or the curious things OJ had with him during the chase (a loaded gun, fake beard and mustache, $8 large in cash, etc...),and yes OJ was rich at the time. It certainly doesn't hurt and there is some validity to what you say. But there are plenty of rich folks in jail.

I'm not sure why you picked up on his skin color but whatever...

Inconvenient? Not.

I've showed you that the Stop&Frisk laws in NYC were far more often applied to blacks than whites
I've showed you facts that blacks are sentenced to Life without Parole more often than whites.
I've showed you that kids that grow up fatherless--as our justice system ensures some blacks are-- are far more pre-disposed to likely live in the "slums" as you pointed out are dangerous.

You are contesting that if you search more blacks than whites--6 times as many, it will have no bearing on the number of blacks being arrested compared to whites

You are contesting that "it's bullshit" that blacks are sentenced to LIPWP more often than whites even though it has been shown to you.

As for fatherless youths and those without father figures ending up in trouble...it's silly to argue otherwise but there you are...doing just that.

I could should you more stats:

I'm sure the above is a coincidence....

Yes, that is because the percentage of blacks living in poverty is more than that of whites, or any other ethnicity. Because of this, they are more apt to be committing crimes. As far as the justice system goes though, there is no conspiracy! There are black judges, black defense lawyers, black prosecutors, black policemen (who may even be the MAJORITY in some of these more poor neighborhoods). Your stats do not prove causation. It's much more complicated than "racism." That is why the black on black crime rates in such neighborhoods, along with gang criminal activity, is pretty prevalent. Even other black people who are honest and live in such neighborhoods are afraid to step up.

Let me ask you another question...do you believe that Blacks are genetically pre-disposed to criminal behavior, that they want to live in poverty, making 10-15 thousand a year off of government hand-outs?

Why do you assume Everyone thinks like you Democrats?

 

[Cecilie1200]

Don't you think that has something to do with police officers having to go into these slums to serve warrants and on more than ONE occasion, having been attacked? Some of these neighborhoods are like war zones. I wouldn't want to go knocking on one of those thugs doors and then identify myself as an officer of the law. That's like a death warrant.

I don't necessarily agree with ALL of the things the police do and I do agree that sometimes it's just overkill, but at the same time they want to go home at night to their families and not be shot and killed unexpectedly by some demented thug in the hood.

I am not picking your post out to 'argue with" but there is a "set up" quality to your post.

Why are there slums? I'm not saying this is the only reason but our criminal justice system does seem to be a self-fulfilling prophecy. First if you look at the Stop and Frisk laws in New York:

If yous top 5 times as many blacks and 3 times as many latinos as you do whites, you're going to end up with more blacks and latinos doing time.

Next lets look at sentencing:

In the states listed, nearly 4 out of 10 more blacks than whites are sentenced to life without parole meaning they won't be there for their kids.

But it extends beyond there.


Even minor crimes (in comparison) come with catches (again, if you are white, you're a 1/10 to get frisked vs 6/10 for blacks). If you can post bail, you come back for trial where, if you're guilty, you're often assessed a fine that accrues annually

Sentenced to debt Some tossed in prison over unpaid fines - NBC News

As Court Fees Rise The Poor Are Paying The Price NPR

Welcome to Prison. Will You Be Paying Cash or Credit TIME.com

Anyway, slums are dangerous because of crime. Crime is there because there are so few fathers are a part of their kids lives....

Statistics

• 63% of youth suicides are from fatherless homes (US Dept. Of Health/Census) – 5 times the average.

• 90% of all homeless and runaway children are from fatherless homes – 32 times the average.

• 85% of all children who show behavior disorders come from fatherless homes – 20 times the average. (Center for Disease Control)

• 80% of rapists with anger problems come from fatherless homes –14 times the average. (Justice & Behavior, Vol 14, p. 403-26)

• 71% of all high school dropouts come from fatherless homes – 9 times the average. (National Principals Association Report)

Father Factor in Education - Fatherless children are twice as likely to drop out of school.

• Children with Fathers who are involved are 40% less likely to repeat a grade in school.

• Children with Fathers who are involved are 70% less likely to drop out of school.

• Children with Fathers who are involved are more likely to get A’s in school.

• Children with Fathers who are involved are more likely to enjoy school and engage in extracurricular activities.

• 75% of all adolescent patients in chemical abuse centers come from fatherless homes – 10 times the average.

Now let me stress that if you're guilty of a crime, you should do the sentence. I'm of the opinion that there shouldn't be any probation or paroles. It's unfair to the victims of the crimes!!!

But we obviously have a system of justice that isn't appled equally. If we were to start doing that...perhaps the slums would be smaller and perhaps less scary.

What is it with liberals that they assume 1) that there SHOULD be racial parity in criminal convictions, and 2) that the fact that there isn't can ONLY be explained by a racist, unjust system? Our nation is suffering and innocent people are dying as a direct result of your lazy, brainless, drooling attempts at thinking.

 

[Vigilante]

 

[Cecilie1200]

Don't you think that has something to do with police officers having to go into these slums to serve warrants and on more than ONE occasion, having been attacked? Some of these neighborhoods are like war zones. I wouldn't want to go knocking on one of those thugs doors and then identify myself as an officer of the law. That's like a death warrant.

I don't necessarily agree with ALL of the things the police do and I do agree that sometimes it's just overkill, but at the same time they want to go home at night to their families and not be shot and killed unexpectedly by some demented thug in the hood.

I am not picking your post out to 'argue with" but there is a "set up" quality to your post.

Why are there slums? I'm not saying this is the only reason but our criminal justice system does seem to be a self-fulfilling prophecy. First if you look at the Stop and Frisk laws in New York:

If yous top 5 times as many blacks and 3 times as many latinos as you do whites, you're going to end up with more blacks and latinos doing time.

Next lets look at sentencing:

In the states listed, nearly 4 out of 10 more blacks than whites are sentenced to life without parole meaning they won't be there for their kids.

But it extends beyond there.


Even minor crimes (in comparison) come with catches (again, if you are white, you're a 1/10 to get frisked vs 6/10 for blacks). If you can post bail, you come back for trial where, if you're guilty, you're often assessed a fine that accrues annually

Sentenced to debt Some tossed in prison over unpaid fines - NBC News

As Court Fees Rise The Poor Are Paying The Price NPR

Welcome to Prison. Will You Be Paying Cash or Credit TIME.com

Anyway, slums are dangerous because of crime. Crime is there because there are so few fathers are a part of their kids lives....

Statistics

• 63% of youth suicides are from fatherless homes (US Dept. Of Health/Census) – 5 times the average.

• 90% of all homeless and runaway children are from fatherless homes – 32 times the average.

• 85% of all children who show behavior disorders come from fatherless homes – 20 times the average. (Center for Disease Control)

• 80% of rapists with anger problems come from fatherless homes –14 times the average. (Justice & Behavior, Vol 14, p. 403-26)

• 71% of all high school dropouts come from fatherless homes – 9 times the average. (National Principals Association Report)

Father Factor in Education - Fatherless children are twice as likely to drop out of school.

• Children with Fathers who are involved are 40% less likely to repeat a grade in school.

• Children with Fathers who are involved are 70% less likely to drop out of school.

• Children with Fathers who are involved are more likely to get A’s in school.

• Children with Fathers who are involved are more likely to enjoy school and engage in extracurricular activities.

• 75% of all adolescent patients in chemical abuse centers come from fatherless homes – 10 times the average.

Now let me stress that if you're guilty of a crime, you should do the sentence. I'm of the opinion that there shouldn't be any probation or paroles. It's unfair to the victims of the crimes!!!

But we obviously have a system of justice that isn't appled equally. If we were to start doing that...perhaps the slums would be smaller and perhaps less scary.

I agree with much of this. Very informative post. However, I think there are multiple factors involved.

I think the problem with the justice system, rather than color or race, is more money. Money talks in our justice system, obviously. Look at what the celebrities or rich can get away with that the rest of us would be thrown into jail for. Why? Because they have the money to buy the best lawyers while the poor people are stuck with the crappiest court-appointed lawyers who aren't really very motivated to put up a good defense.

I'm not certain what you mean by "get away with". OJ may have beat the murder rap but everyone knew he was guilty. His civil suit was lost by OJ and he's now in jail because of larceny of all things. Wesley Snipes went to prison if not mistaken. Martha Stewart went to Prison. Christian Slater went to Prison. I won't go into how many presumably well off politicians are sitting in jail right now or athletes--special point about athletes however...for a lot of them this is their first brush with the law and some leniency is to be expected. Celebrity may play a role as well.

As for the OP subject...it gets into the political somewhat I suppose but one of the reasons blacks (the majority of) and Latinos (the majority of) are experiencing generational poverty is that we incarcerate the non-White people for longer sentences than we do Caucasians. This is the function of the juries and it is also the function of the idiotic fees and payments that we force people to make. Not only are you serving a sentence but you often have to pay a fine or restitution beyond that. And when you can't make he payment, you are further incarcerated.

The net result is that the children of incarcerated blacks and Latinos grow up fatherless. So guess what happens...they either turn to a life of crime or they are not instructed what it takes to raise a family....they drop out of school to take a $10.00 an hour job because the money seems pretty sweet living at home. In the real world, you'll need serious welfare to help you make it on $10 an hour unless you're uniquely equipped to live on less.

Obviously, there are people of all races who when facing the specter of being there and paying for a child who are going to split regardless of gender or race. And if they were equipped in both areas, they still wouldn't want to do it. Further, a 4 year old knows the difference between right and wrong and if you break the law, you should be put away for the sentence given--but that sentence should be the same for everyone.

Look, the bottom line is money. It doesn't matter if you are black or white anymore. MONEY talks. We have black and white people throughout government and justice system. I don't buy your "systemic racism" bull crap.

Facts do not cease to be facts because you find them inconvenient.

Nor does bullshit become fact simply because it "feels" good.

 

[Neil N. Blowme]

 

[candycorn]

Look, the bottom line is money. It doesn't matter if you are black or white anymore. MONEY talks. We have black and white people throughout government and justice system. I don't buy your "systemic racism" bull crap.

Facts do not cease to be facts because you find them inconvenient.

They aren't facts.

Sure they are.

There are many possible causative factors, and most of it has to do with money. Just because you want to try and correlate it to race, doesn't make it so.

You brought up slums. Are you aware of a lot of white slums (Mississippi not withstanding)? Sure there are some whites living in slums but I doubt you were referring to them...

IF what you claimed is true, then OJ Simpson would have received a kangaroo court, and he would have been CONVICTED for murdering two white people. However, he was loaded at the time, could afford the best defense team (or allegedly the best - lol) that money could buy. It had NOTHING to do with the color of his skin!!??

Martha Stewart wasn't loaded? Presumably rich athletes like Rae Carruth, Pete Rose, Denny MacLain, Mike Tyson, Steve Howe, and 2 players off of every NFL team (on average) aren't loaded? They went to jail.

Michael Vick had something like $8 million in the bank when he went to jail.
Floyd Maywhether has something like $80M in the bank.


The outlier you picked was OJ which had other factors such as an 11 month trial with a sequestered jury, a joke of a prosecution team, which didn't bring up the chase or the curious things OJ had with him during the chase (a loaded gun, fake beard and mustache, $8 large in cash, etc...),and yes OJ was rich at the time. It certainly doesn't hurt and there is some validity to what you say. But there are plenty of rich folks in jail.

I'm not sure why you picked up on his skin color but whatever...

Inconvenient? Not.

I've showed you that the Stop&Frisk laws in NYC were far more often applied to blacks than whites
I've showed you facts that blacks are sentenced to Life without Parole more often than whites.
I've showed you that kids that grow up fatherless--as our justice system ensures some blacks are-- are far more pre-disposed to likely live in the "slums" as you pointed out are dangerous.

You are contesting that if you search more blacks than whites--6 times as many, it will have no bearing on the number of blacks being arrested compared to whites

You are contesting that "it's bullshit" that blacks are sentenced to LIPWP more often than whites even though it has been shown to you.

As for fatherless youths and those without father figures ending up in trouble...it's silly to argue otherwise but there you are...doing just that.

I could should you more stats:

I'm sure the above is a coincidence....

Yes, that is because the percentage of blacks living in poverty is more than that of whites, or any other ethnicity. Because of this, they are more apt to be committing crimes. As far as the justice system goes though, there is no conspiracy! There are black judges, black defense lawyers, black prosecutors, black policemen (who may even be the MAJORITY in some of these more poor neighborhoods). Your stats do not prove causation. It's much more complicated than "racism." That is why the black on black crime rates in such neighborhoods, along with gang criminal activity, is pretty prevalent. Even other black people who are honest and live in such neighborhoods are afraid to step up.

Let me ask you another question...do you believe that Blacks are genetically pre-disposed to criminal behavior, that they want to live in poverty, making 10-15 thousand a year off of government hand-outs?

ChrisL Well?

 

[ChrisL]

Facts do not cease to be facts because you find them inconvenient.

They aren't facts.

Sure they are.

There are many possible causative factors, and most of it has to do with money. Just because you want to try and correlate it to race, doesn't make it so.

You brought up slums. Are you aware of a lot of white slums (Mississippi not withstanding)? Sure there are some whites living in slums but I doubt you were referring to them...

IF what you claimed is true, then OJ Simpson would have received a kangaroo court, and he would have been CONVICTED for murdering two white people. However, he was loaded at the time, could afford the best defense team (or allegedly the best - lol) that money could buy. It had NOTHING to do with the color of his skin!!??

Martha Stewart wasn't loaded? Presumably rich athletes like Rae Carruth, Pete Rose, Denny MacLain, Mike Tyson, Steve Howe, and 2 players off of every NFL team (on average) aren't loaded? They went to jail.

Michael Vick had something like $8 million in the bank when he went to jail.
Floyd Maywhether has something like $80M in the bank.


The outlier you picked was OJ which had other factors such as an 11 month trial with a sequestered jury, a joke of a prosecution team, which didn't bring up the chase or the curious things OJ had with him during the chase (a loaded gun, fake beard and mustache, $8 large in cash, etc...),and yes OJ was rich at the time. It certainly doesn't hurt and there is some validity to what you say. But there are plenty of rich folks in jail.

I'm not sure why you picked up on his skin color but whatever...

Inconvenient? Not.

I've showed you that the Stop&Frisk laws in NYC were far more often applied to blacks than whites
I've showed you facts that blacks are sentenced to Life without Parole more often than whites.
I've showed you that kids that grow up fatherless--as our justice system ensures some blacks are-- are far more pre-disposed to likely live in the "slums" as you pointed out are dangerous.

You are contesting that if you search more blacks than whites--6 times as many, it will have no bearing on the number of blacks being arrested compared to whites

You are contesting that "it's bullshit" that blacks are sentenced to LIPWP more often than whites even though it has been shown to you.

As for fatherless youths and those without father figures ending up in trouble...it's silly to argue otherwise but there you are...doing just that.

I could should you more stats:

I'm sure the above is a coincidence....

Yes, that is because the percentage of blacks living in poverty is more than that of whites, or any other ethnicity. Because of this, they are more apt to be committing crimes. As far as the justice system goes though, there is no conspiracy! There are black judges, black defense lawyers, black prosecutors, black policemen (who may even be the MAJORITY in some of these more poor neighborhoods). Your stats do not prove causation. It's much more complicated than "racism." That is why the black on black crime rates in such neighborhoods, along with gang criminal activity, is pretty prevalent. Even other black people who are honest and live in such neighborhoods are afraid to step up.

Let me ask you another question...do you believe that Blacks are genetically pre-disposed to criminal behavior, that they want to live in poverty, making 10-15 thousand a year off of government hand-outs?

ChrisL Well?

Do I believe they are genetically predisposed? No. I believe they are socially conditioned in some instances.

 

[ChrisL]

I thought this was a really nice gesture. This is from a recent march held in Cleveland, Ohio to support the fallen officers as well as local police.

 

[candycorn]

They aren't facts.

Sure they are.

There are many possible causative factors, and most of it has to do with money. Just because you want to try and correlate it to race, doesn't make it so.

You brought up slums. Are you aware of a lot of white slums (Mississippi not withstanding)? Sure there are some whites living in slums but I doubt you were referring to them...

IF what you claimed is true, then OJ Simpson would have received a kangaroo court, and he would have been CONVICTED for murdering two white people. However, he was loaded at the time, could afford the best defense team (or allegedly the best - lol) that money could buy. It had NOTHING to do with the color of his skin!!??

Martha Stewart wasn't loaded? Presumably rich athletes like Rae Carruth, Pete Rose, Denny MacLain, Mike Tyson, Steve Howe, and 2 players off of every NFL team (on average) aren't loaded? They went to jail.

Michael Vick had something like $8 million in the bank when he went to jail.
Floyd Maywhether has something like $80M in the bank.


The outlier you picked was OJ which had other factors such as an 11 month trial with a sequestered jury, a joke of a prosecution team, which didn't bring up the chase or the curious things OJ had with him during the chase (a loaded gun, fake beard and mustache, $8 large in cash, etc...),and yes OJ was rich at the time. It certainly doesn't hurt and there is some validity to what you say. But there are plenty of rich folks in jail.

I'm not sure why you picked up on his skin color but whatever...

Inconvenient? Not.

I've showed you that the Stop&Frisk laws in NYC were far more often applied to blacks than whites
I've showed you facts that blacks are sentenced to Life without Parole more often than whites.
I've showed you that kids that grow up fatherless--as our justice system ensures some blacks are-- are far more pre-disposed to likely live in the "slums" as you pointed out are dangerous.

You are contesting that if you search more blacks than whites--6 times as many, it will have no bearing on the number of blacks being arrested compared to whites

You are contesting that "it's bullshit" that blacks are sentenced to LIPWP more often than whites even though it has been shown to you.

As for fatherless youths and those without father figures ending up in trouble...it's silly to argue otherwise but there you are...doing just that.

I could should you more stats:

I'm sure the above is a coincidence....

Yes, that is because the percentage of blacks living in poverty is more than that of whites, or any other ethnicity. Because of this, they are more apt to be committing crimes. As far as the justice system goes though, there is no conspiracy! There are black judges, black defense lawyers, black prosecutors, black policemen (who may even be the MAJORITY in some of these more poor neighborhoods). Your stats do not prove causation. It's much more complicated than "racism." That is why the black on black crime rates in such neighborhoods, along with gang criminal activity, is pretty prevalent. Even other black people who are honest and live in such neighborhoods are afraid to step up.

Let me ask you another question...do you believe that Blacks are genetically pre-disposed to criminal behavior, that they want to live in poverty, making 10-15 thousand a year off of government hand-outs?

ChrisL Well?

Do I believe they are genetically predisposed? No. I believe they are socially conditioned in some instances.

Would you agree that if our society removed someone's father out of their lives for, oh lets just say 10 years during their growing up (ages 8-18 for example), that child is at a disadvantage compared to those children whose father is able to be there?

 

[thanatos144]

Sure they are.

You brought up slums. Are you aware of a lot of white slums (Mississippi not withstanding)? Sure there are some whites living in slums but I doubt you were referring to them...

Martha Stewart wasn't loaded? Presumably rich athletes like Rae Carruth, Pete Rose, Denny MacLain, Mike Tyson, Steve Howe, and 2 players off of every NFL team (on average) aren't loaded? They went to jail.

Michael Vick had something like $8 million in the bank when he went to jail.
Floyd Maywhether has something like $80M in the bank.


The outlier you picked was OJ which had other factors such as an 11 month trial with a sequestered jury, a joke of a prosecution team, which didn't bring up the chase or the curious things OJ had with him during the chase (a loaded gun, fake beard and mustache, $8 large in cash, etc...),and yes OJ was rich at the time. It certainly doesn't hurt and there is some validity to what you say. But there are plenty of rich folks in jail.

I'm not sure why you picked up on his skin color but whatever...

I've showed you that the Stop&Frisk laws in NYC were far more often applied to blacks than whites
I've showed you facts that blacks are sentenced to Life without Parole more often than whites.
I've showed you that kids that grow up fatherless--as our justice system ensures some blacks are-- are far more pre-disposed to likely live in the "slums" as you pointed out are dangerous.

You are contesting that if you search more blacks than whites--6 times as many, it will have no bearing on the number of blacks being arrested compared to whites

You are contesting that "it's bullshit" that blacks are sentenced to LIPWP more often than whites even though it has been shown to you.

As for fatherless youths and those without father figures ending up in trouble...it's silly to argue otherwise but there you are...doing just that.

I could should you more stats:

I'm sure the above is a coincidence....

Yes, that is because the percentage of blacks living in poverty is more than that of whites, or any other ethnicity. Because of this, they are more apt to be committing crimes. As far as the justice system goes though, there is no conspiracy! There are black judges, black defense lawyers, black prosecutors, black policemen (who may even be the MAJORITY in some of these more poor neighborhoods). Your stats do not prove causation. It's much more complicated than "racism." That is why the black on black crime rates in such neighborhoods, along with gang criminal activity, is pretty prevalent. Even other black people who are honest and live in such neighborhoods are afraid to step up.

Let me ask you another question...do you believe that Blacks are genetically pre-disposed to criminal behavior, that they want to live in poverty, making 10-15 thousand a year off of government hand-outs?

ChrisL Well?

Do I believe they are genetically predisposed? No. I believe they are socially conditioned in some instances.

Would you agree that if our society removed someone's father out of their lives for, oh lets just say 10 years during their growing up (ages 8-18 for example), that child is at a disadvantage compared to those children whose father is able to be there?

We already knew what welfare did dude

 

[ChrisL]

I saw on the news that there was a rally somewhere in Massachusetts as well (my state) to support the police, but I can't seem to find it. I'll have to check again later I guess.

Sure they are.

You brought up slums. Are you aware of a lot of white slums (Mississippi not withstanding)? Sure there are some whites living in slums but I doubt you were referring to them...

Martha Stewart wasn't loaded? Presumably rich athletes like Rae Carruth, Pete Rose, Denny MacLain, Mike Tyson, Steve Howe, and 2 players off of every NFL team (on average) aren't loaded? They went to jail.

Michael Vick had something like $8 million in the bank when he went to jail.
Floyd Maywhether has something like $80M in the bank.


The outlier you picked was OJ which had other factors such as an 11 month trial with a sequestered jury, a joke of a prosecution team, which didn't bring up the chase or the curious things OJ had with him during the chase (a loaded gun, fake beard and mustache, $8 large in cash, etc...),and yes OJ was rich at the time. It certainly doesn't hurt and there is some validity to what you say. But there are plenty of rich folks in jail.

I'm not sure why you picked up on his skin color but whatever...

I've showed you that the Stop&Frisk laws in NYC were far more often applied to blacks than whites
I've showed you facts that blacks are sentenced to Life without Parole more often than whites.
I've showed you that kids that grow up fatherless--as our justice system ensures some blacks are-- are far more pre-disposed to likely live in the "slums" as you pointed out are dangerous.

You are contesting that if you search more blacks than whites--6 times as many, it will have no bearing on the number of blacks being arrested compared to whites

You are contesting that "it's bullshit" that blacks are sentenced to LIPWP more often than whites even though it has been shown to you.

As for fatherless youths and those without father figures ending up in trouble...it's silly to argue otherwise but there you are...doing just that.

I could should you more stats:

I'm sure the above is a coincidence....

Yes, that is because the percentage of blacks living in poverty is more than that of whites, or any other ethnicity. Because of this, they are more apt to be committing crimes. As far as the justice system goes though, there is no conspiracy! There are black judges, black defense lawyers, black prosecutors, black policemen (who may even be the MAJORITY in some of these more poor neighborhoods). Your stats do not prove causation. It's much more complicated than "racism." That is why the black on black crime rates in such neighborhoods, along with gang criminal activity, is pretty prevalent. Even other black people who are honest and live in such neighborhoods are afraid to step up.

Let me ask you another question...do you believe that Blacks are genetically pre-disposed to criminal behavior, that they want to live in poverty, making 10-15 thousand a year off of government hand-outs?

ChrisL Well?

Do I believe they are genetically predisposed? No. I believe they are socially conditioned in some instances.

Would you agree that if our society removed someone's father out of their lives for, oh lets just say 10 years during their growing up (ages 8-18 for example), that child is at a disadvantage compared to those children whose father is able to be there?

Sure, but there are PLENTY of kids (from ALL ethnic groups) who have grown up in single parent households and have not turned to crime and sometimes have even been quite successful. This is more than just dad being absent.

 

[candycorn]

I saw on the news that there was a rally somewhere in Massachusetts as well (my state) to support the police, but I can't seem to find it. I'll have to check again later I guess.

Yes, that is because the percentage of blacks living in poverty is more than that of whites, or any other ethnicity. Because of this, they are more apt to be committing crimes. As far as the justice system goes though, there is no conspiracy! There are black judges, black defense lawyers, black prosecutors, black policemen (who may even be the MAJORITY in some of these more poor neighborhoods). Your stats do not prove causation. It's much more complicated than "racism." That is why the black on black crime rates in such neighborhoods, along with gang criminal activity, is pretty prevalent. Even other black people who are honest and live in such neighborhoods are afraid to step up.

Let me ask you another question...do you believe that Blacks are genetically pre-disposed to criminal behavior, that they want to live in poverty, making 10-15 thousand a year off of government hand-outs?

ChrisL Well?

Do I believe they are genetically predisposed? No. I believe they are socially conditioned in some instances.

Would you agree that if our society removed someone's father out of their lives for, oh lets just say 10 years during their growing up (ages 8-18 for example), that child is at a disadvantage compared to those children whose father is able to be there?

Sure,

Okay...so would it not make sense that if in the 2000's, society jailed one race far more often and longer than the other races that going forward that race that was most incarcerated would likely wind up duplicating that behavior?

 

[Meathead]

Would you agree that if our society removed someone's father out of their lives for, oh lets just say 10 years during their growing up (ages 8-18 for example), that child is at a disadvantage compared to those children whose father is able to be there?

You mean the 70% of missing black baby daddies are all in prison?

 

[ChrisL]

I saw on the news that there was a rally somewhere in Massachusetts as well (my state) to support the police, but I can't seem to find it. I'll have to check again later I guess.

Let me ask you another question...do you believe that Blacks are genetically pre-disposed to criminal behavior, that they want to live in poverty, making 10-15 thousand a year off of government hand-outs?

ChrisL Well?

Do I believe they are genetically predisposed? No. I believe they are socially conditioned in some instances.

Would you agree that if our society removed someone's father out of their lives for, oh lets just say 10 years during their growing up (ages 8-18 for example), that child is at a disadvantage compared to those children whose father is able to be there?

Sure,

Okay...so would it not make sense that if in the 2000's, society jailed one race far more often and longer than the other races that going forward that race that was most incarcerated would likely wind up duplicating that behavior?

Why do you think they are jailed more often? Could it be because they commit a large percentage of the crimes? Just think about the inner city gang problems, and I think that answers your question. What do you SUGGEST we do with criminals? Kiss their boo-boos and let them go free? Good Lord!