Rules For Traditionals: How People In Wedding Trades Can Defend Themselves

[martybegan]

How about we compromise and let anti-gay marriage businesses acquire a special permit to deny gay weddings catering,
and all they need do is display the sign prominently on the front of their business, and in all their advertising and any websites they use, that they don't serve gays?

lol

Won't work

They want to whisper that they hate fags not shout it out

And you want to ruin people without getting your hands dirty.

How is them declaring their business practices ruining them?

Their decisions on who will or will not be served will ruin them....not declaring it

"The let them post their intentions" compromise is a ruse by your side, and you know it.

Quick question. Do you support a $150k fine on a baker for not baking a cake?

 

[Nosmo King]

How about we compromise and let anti-gay marriage businesses acquire a special permit to deny gay weddings catering,
and all they need do is display the sign prominently on the front of their business, and in all their advertising and any websites they use, that they don't serve gays?

lol

Won't work

They want to whisper that they hate fags not shout it out

And you want to ruin people without getting your hands dirty.

How is them declaring their business practices ruining them?

Their decisions on who will or will not be served will ruin them....not declaring it

"The let them post their intentions" compromise is a ruse by your side, and you know it.

Quick question. Do you support a $150k fine on a baker for not baking a cake?

It's not a fine for not baking a cake. It's a fine for blanket discrimination.

 

[martybegan]

How about we compromise and let anti-gay marriage businesses acquire a special permit to deny gay weddings catering,
and all they need do is display the sign prominently on the front of their business, and in all their advertising and any websites they use, that they don't serve gays?

lol

Won't work

They want to whisper that they hate fags not shout it out

And you want to ruin people without getting your hands dirty.

How is them declaring their business practices ruining them?

Their decisions on who will or will not be served will ruin them....not declaring it

"The let them post their intentions" compromise is a ruse by your side, and you know it.

Quick question. Do you support a $150k fine on a baker for not baking a cake?

It's not a fine for not baking a cake. It's a fine for blanket discrimination.

Semantics. not baking the cake is the original cause of the fine.

Again, the question, do you support it or not? Does not wanting to bake a cake for a gay couple really require $150k in fines as punishment?

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

The sign should read:

DUE TO OUR DEVOTION TO THE TEACHINGS OF JESUS CHRIST, WE REFUSE TO TREAT OUR NEIGHBORS AS WE WOULD HAVE OURSELVES BE TREATED, THEREFORE WE WILL NOT BAKE CAKES FOR SAME SEX WEDDINGS. PRAISE GOD.

As long as you walk around with a sign saying "I support ruining people because I disagree with them (but only when government does the dirty work for me).

How does a customer, cash in hand, ruin a business? Seems that the business is shooting itself in the foot and claiming victimization at the hands of others.

Then let the market handle it, and keep government out of it. Its not the customer, its the $150k fine the government imposes that ruins it.

So even public accommodation laws represent 'big government'? Aside from assuring rights, defending the coasts, delivering the mail, what else should government be doing? And doesn't this fall squarely in the 'assuring rights' category?

When PA laws are applied to something as trivial as a baker for a wedding cake, yes, it is Big Government. The question is what is the more hurtful impact, A gay couple having to find another baker, or a baker being forced out of business because of their beliefs.

The whole concept of PA laws was for gross economic impact, whole portions of the population (blacks) being denied equal access to whole sectors of an economy, i.e not "a" cake, but all cakes of a given quality. To apply them to every transaction without determining the actual economic impact (not just hurt feeewwings, as in the Oregon case) is bringing a neutron bomb to a knife fight.

It isn't about the baker...

reframing an argument does not mean the reframing is exact.

People have mentioned beliefs. If the baker sells cakes to gays and then doesn't want to sell only wedding cakes, it is about the idea of the wedding. It is none of their business what the couple will be doing with the cake. The baker is NOT being asked to be part of the wedding or support same sex weddings. The baker is being asked to sell a cake -- a wedding cake. What business is it of the baker's how a customer uses his cake -- her cake that THEY paid for?

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Won't work

They want to whisper that they hate fags not shout it out

And you want to ruin people without getting your hands dirty.

How is them declaring their business practices ruining them?

Their decisions on who will or will not be served will ruin them....not declaring it

"The let them post their intentions" compromise is a ruse by your side, and you know it.

Quick question. Do you support a $150k fine on a baker for not baking a cake?

It's not a fine for not baking a cake. It's a fine for blanket discrimination.

Semantics. not baking the cake is the original cause of the fine.

Again, the question, do you support it or not? Does not wanting to bake a cake for a gay couple really require $150k in fines as punishment?

disingenuous reframing?

it is about the sale of a cake.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

How about we compromise and let anti-gay marriage businesses acquire a special permit to deny gay weddings catering,
and all they need do is display the sign prominently on the front of their business, and in all their advertising and any websites they use, that they don't serve gays?

lol

The sign should read:

DUE TO OUR DEVOTION TO THE TEACHINGS OF JESUS CHRIST, WE REFUSE TO TREAT OUR NEIGHBORS AS WE WOULD HAVE OURSELVES BE TREATED, THEREFORE WE WILL NOT BAKE CAKES FOR SAME SEX WEDDINGS. PRAISE GOD.

a religious test for customers?

not very good

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

[The question is what is the more hurtful impact, A gay couple having to find another baker, or a baker being forced out of business because of their beliefs.

.

The former, because the latter is the wrongdoer.

In your opinion, and morally, but PA laws are about economics first.
"Wrongdoer" has nothing to do with it, except in your own mind and biases.

Public Accommodation laws are about economics?

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

As long as you walk around with a sign saying "I support ruining people because I disagree with them (but only when government does the dirty work for me).

How does a customer, cash in hand, ruin a business? Seems that the business is shooting itself in the foot and claiming victimization at the hands of others.

Then let the market handle it, and keep government out of it. Its not the customer, its the $150k fine the government imposes that ruins it.

So even public accommodation laws represent 'big government'? Aside from assuring rights, defending the coasts, delivering the mail, what else should government be doing? And doesn't this fall squarely in the 'assuring rights' category?

Everything is big government to these anarchists, or should I say, these rightwing nuts posing as anarchists.

argumentum ad absurdum, the first and most comforting refuge for the poor debater.

irony alert


outta this

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

EVEREYONE Please come back to usmb and post the arguments used in court next to the arguments used here

 

[Katzndogz]

The bakery in Westwood does just fine without making wedding cakes for same sex couples. I was there when one couple came in. The bakery has two or three a week that come in for wedding cakes. There was no problem in telling them no.

 

[Nosmo King]

Won't work

They want to whisper that they hate fags not shout it out

And you want to ruin people without getting your hands dirty.

How is them declaring their business practices ruining them?

Their decisions on who will or will not be served will ruin them....not declaring it

"The let them post their intentions" compromise is a ruse by your side, and you know it.

Quick question. Do you support a $150k fine on a baker for not baking a cake?

It's not a fine for not baking a cake. It's a fine for blanket discrimination.

Semantics. not baking the cake is the original cause of the fine.

Again, the question, do you support it or not? Does not wanting to bake a cake for a gay couple really require $150k in fines as punishment?

If the reason is the cake will be consumed at a same sex wedding, then yes, I support a $150k fine for refusal.

 

[Nosmo King]

The bakery in Westwood does just fine without making wedding cakes for same sex couples. I was there when one couple came in. The bakery has two or three a week that come in for wedding cakes. There was no problem in telling them no.

Think of the profits they are letting walk out the door. Just because they don't approve of their new customers.

It's not as if they would be consigned to flaming pits of hell because their baked goods are shared at a same sex wedding.

 

[Katzndogz]

The bakery in Westwood does just fine without making wedding cakes for same sex couples. I was there when one couple came in. The bakery has two or three a week that come in for wedding cakes. There was no problem in telling them no.

Think of the profits they are letting walk out the door. Just because they don't approve of their new customers.

It's not as if they would be consigned to flaming pits of hell because their baked goods are shared at a same sex wedding.

Their values and principles are not for sale. Is that concept beyond you? I told a lesbian couple no. They sued and I won. It is n't all that hard to create business practices that avoid compromising one's principles.

Of course if principles are for sale that would be hypocrisy.

 

[Nosmo King]

The bakery in Westwood does just fine without making wedding cakes for same sex couples. I was there when one couple came in. The bakery has two or three a week that come in for wedding cakes. There was no problem in telling them no.

Think of the profits they are letting walk out the door. Just because they don't approve of their new customers.

It's not as if they would be consigned to flaming pits of hell because their baked goods are shared at a same sex wedding.

Their values and principles are not for sale. Is that concept beyond you? I told a lesbian couple no. They sued and I won. It is n't all that hard to create business practices that avoid compromising one's principles.

Of course if principles are for sale that would be hypocrisy.

What are these "principles" based on other than fear, hate, hurtful stereotypes and shear ignorance?

They certainly are not based on the teachings of Jesus Christ, so don't bring that religious freedom crap!

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

The bakery in Westwood does just fine without making wedding cakes for same sex couples. I was there when one couple came in. The bakery has two or three a week that come in for wedding cakes. There was no problem in telling them no.

Think of the profits they are letting walk out the door. Just because they don't approve of their new customers.

It's not as if they would be consigned to flaming pits of hell because their baked goods are shared at a same sex wedding.

Their values and principles are not for sale. Is that concept beyond you? I told a lesbian couple no. They sued and I won. It is n't all that hard to create business practices that avoid compromising one's principles.

Of course if principles are for sale that would be hypocrisy.

What are these "principles" based on other than fear, hate, hurtful stereotypes and shear ignorance?

They certainly are not based on the teachings of Jesus Christ, so don't bring that religious freedom crap!

you may be one of the worst advocates for your cause

a ball gag would suit you well

 

[Nosmo King]

The bakery in Westwood does just fine without making wedding cakes for same sex couples. I was there when one couple came in. The bakery has two or three a week that come in for wedding cakes. There was no problem in telling them no.

Think of the profits they are letting walk out the door. Just because they don't approve of their new customers.

It's not as if they would be consigned to flaming pits of hell because their baked goods are shared at a same sex wedding.

Their values and principles are not for sale. Is that concept beyond you? I told a lesbian couple no. They sued and I won. It is n't all that hard to create business practices that avoid compromising one's principles.

Of course if principles are for sale that would be hypocrisy.

What are these "principles" based on other than fear, hate, hurtful stereotypes and shear ignorance?

They certainly are not based on the teachings of Jesus Christ, so don't bring that religious freedom crap!

you may be one of the worst advocates for your cause

a ball gag would suit you well

Answer the question then. What are these 'principles' based on if not hate, fear, ignorance and perpetuating hurtful stereotypes?

 

[Katzndogz]

The bakery in Westwood does just fine without making wedding cakes for same sex couples. I was there when one couple came in. The bakery has two or three a week that come in for wedding cakes. There was no problem in telling them no.

Think of the profits they are letting walk out the door. Just because they don't approve of their new customers.

It's not as if they would be consigned to flaming pits of hell because their baked goods are shared at a same sex wedding.

Their values and principles are not for sale. Is that concept beyond you? I told a lesbian couple no. They sued and I won. It is n't all that hard to create business practices that avoid compromising one's principles.

Of course if principles are for sale that would be hypocrisy.

What are these "principles" based on other than fear, hate, hurtful stereotypes and shear ignorance?

They certainly are not based on the teachings of Jesus Christ, so don't bring that religious freedom crap!

The bakery I spoke of is owned and operated by muslims. I doubt they care about Jesus Christ at all.

Jesus commanded his followers not to sin. If a Christian determines not to commit a sin they should have the freedom not to do that. They aren't stopping anyone else from being sinful if they wish. Actually no one needs a reason to not perform any act specifically required of them personally. I don't want to should be good enough.

 

[Katzndogz]

By the way that same bakery made a beautiful cake for my friend's wedding.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

The bakery in Westwood does just fine without making wedding cakes for same sex couples. I was there when one couple came in. The bakery has two or three a week that come in for wedding cakes. There was no problem in telling them no.

Think of the profits they are letting walk out the door. Just because they don't approve of their new customers.

It's not as if they would be consigned to flaming pits of hell because their baked goods are shared at a same sex wedding.

Their values and principles are not for sale. Is that concept beyond you? I told a lesbian couple no. They sued and I won. It is n't all that hard to create business practices that avoid compromising one's principles.

Of course if principles are for sale that would be hypocrisy.

What are these "principles" based on other than fear, hate, hurtful stereotypes and shear ignorance?

They certainly are not based on the teachings of Jesus Christ, so don't bring that religious freedom crap!

you may be one of the worst advocates for your cause

a ball gag would suit you well

Answer the question then. What are these 'principles' based on if not hate, fear, ignorance and perpetuating hurtful stereotypes?

Which principles? You appear to be buying into a reframing of what the case is really all about. And you're arguing about religious bigotry.

Learn how to keep focused. Do not allow others to reframe a debate, because when you do you have almost already lost the argument.

 

[Nosmo King]

Whatever 'principles' these homophobic bakers are hiding behind are based in ignorance and fear. They are not 'principles' but mere excuses to perpetuate more petty repression against a class of American citizens who are committing no crime by simply being who they are.