Oregon imposes gag order on Christian bakers in gay wedding case

[bripat9643]

Horseshit. There's no reason a business shouldn't be allowed to serve whoever the owner wants to server. The "open to the public" scam only fools the gullible. I don't lose my right to associate with whom I choose because I choose to sell pizzas or wedding cakes. The idea that my disinclination to serve you makes you a "second class" citizen is laughable. You're second class only in your own mind.

There is very good reason. It should make no difference to a business who buys their cakes, eat's in their restaurant, or stays in their motel as long they are paid for the product or service and the customer conducts themselves properly.

Says who? As web developer, I can tell you that when someone asks me to build them website, I take a keen interest in who they are and what they're up to. And if I'm not comfortable with them or their plans, I refuse to serve them.

Not every business person is fixated on the bottom line.

There's nothing wrong with denying someone your service as along are you doing so for business reasons and your decision is not based on illegal discriminatory practices. It's all about your reason for denying service.

Exactly. These laws have nothing to do with equal rights and everything to do with targeting specific biases for suppression. That's creepy shit in my book, and will be used against us.

The laws are not about suppressing bias but rather suppressing specific actions that may result from those biases that hurt others. You can hate gays, blacks, Mexicans, Jews but when those biased turn into jobs discrimination, denial or services, and unequal protection under the law then that is creepy shit.

There is no meaningful distinction between the two. The question you have to answer is why you believe anyone is entitled to force me to serve them.

 

[bripat9643]

The bakers are not prevented from talking about their views. What they cannot say (or do) is that they will continue to deny service to gays. They can complain all they want about the right or wrong of the judgment, and scream from the high hills that they hate gays, but they cannot say or post a sign that says they will refuse to serve gays.

That's hardly a gag order which prevents them from expressing their views.

In other words, they are prevented from discussing their views. Thanks for admitting the judge placed a gag order on them.

 

[dblack]

There is very good reason. It should make no difference to a business who buys their cakes, eat's in their restaurant, or stays in their motel as long they are paid for the product or service and the customer conducts themselves properly.

Says who? As web developer, I can tell you that when someone asks me to build them website, I take a keen interest in who they are and what they're up to. And if I'm not comfortable with them or their plans, I refuse to serve them.

Not every business person is fixated on the bottom line.

There's nothing wrong with denying someone your service as along are you doing so for business reasons and your decision is not based on illegal discriminatory practices. It's all about your reason for denying service.

Exactly. These laws have nothing to do with equal rights and everything to do with targeting specific biases for suppression. That's creepy shit in my book, and will be used against us.

The laws are not about suppressing bias but rather suppressing specific actions that may result from those biases that hurt others. You can hate gays, blacks, Mexicans, Jews but when those biased turn into jobs discrimination, denial or services, and unequal protection under the law then that is creepy shit.

You've gone this way before, and it's still a weak rationalization. Of course the point is suppressing bigotry, only embarrassingly transparent sophistry can pretend otherwise. It's easily demonstrated by recognizing that discrimination, against gays or anyone else, isn't illegal. Anyone can discriminate legally as long as they avoid claiming a prohibited opinion as the reason.

 

[dblack]

The bakers are not prevented from talking about their views. What they cannot say (or do) is that they will continue to deny service to gays.

Actually, they can deny service to gays. They just can't say why.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

What you believe is simply untrue. It's why we don't have the No ******* or Jews gas station, which we we used to until we passed PA laws, which the SC has defended as being valid time and again. Your position lost, decades ago.

I know what the law says, but being served is not a right. Most of the laws passed in this country since the start of the depression violate your rights.

Don't bother spouting the law at me. All the proves is that you're a servile bootlicking Nazi.

What it proves is that you are a child who screams "but that's unfair" while ignoring reality. You are preaching to morons, who already believe the fucking nonsense that you do but the reality is quite different and that's what I deal in, the real world, not your fantasy of how life should be.

The queers have been screaming "that's unfair" for decades, but you don't seem to have problem with that. You are very selective when it comes to accusing those who claim the law is unjust of being immature. Of course, you are just a fucking Nazi who believes it's OK to impose your personal preferences on society. You're a big fat hypocrite, in other words.

When you tell the queers to quit whining and shut the fuck up, perhaps someone will take your whining seriously . . . . . .

Nah!

Until they are treated as equals, which they are but aren't treated as such, bitch away...

You don't give a fuck about my rights, so why should you care about anyone else's rights? Why are only the queer's rights important?

Your rights are already protected, as are mine. Now we are protecting the rights of others, which means nothing at all to you my little infant becaus it doesn't help you so therefore it doesn't matter, to you that is...

 

[PaintMyHouse]

The bakers are not prevented from talking about their views. What they cannot say (or do) is that they will continue to deny service to gays.

Actually, they can deny service to gays. They just can't say why.

Lying, so Christian, so moral.

 

[dblack]

The bakers are not prevented from talking about their views. What they cannot say (or do) is that they will continue to deny service to gays.

Actually, they can deny service to gays. They just can't say why.

Lying, so Christian, so moral.

My point stands. It's the statement of disapproval that makes it illegal. If they simply refuse to reveal their reasons, they get a pass.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

The bakers are not prevented from talking about their views. What they cannot say (or do) is that they will continue to deny service to gays.

Actually, they can deny service to gays. They just can't say why.

Lying, so Christian, so moral.

My point stands. It's the statement of disapproval that makes it illegal. If they simply refuse to reveal their reasons, they get a pass.

And go against the teachings of their Lord meaning, they have sinned. Is that worth it?

 

[dblack]

The bakers are not prevented from talking about their views. What they cannot say (or do) is that they will continue to deny service to gays.

Actually, they can deny service to gays. They just can't say why.

Lying, so Christian, so moral.

My point stands. It's the statement of disapproval that makes it illegal. If they simply refuse to reveal their reasons, they get a pass.

And go against the teachings of their Lord, meaning, they have sinned.

Irrelevant trolling. I see you're having your "usual".

 

[PaintMyHouse]

The bakers are not prevented from talking about their views. What they cannot say (or do) is that they will continue to deny service to gays.

Actually, they can deny service to gays. They just can't say why.

Lying, so Christian, so moral.

My point stands. It's the statement of disapproval that makes it illegal. If they simply refuse to reveal their reasons, they get a pass.

And go against the teachings of their Lord, meaning, they have sinned.

Irrelevant trolling. I see you're having your "usual".

Lying in the defense of God is not serving God, and neither is baking a cake.

 

[dblack]

Actually, they can deny service to gays. They just can't say why.

Lying, so Christian, so moral.

My point stands. It's the statement of disapproval that makes it illegal. If they simply refuse to reveal their reasons, they get a pass.

And go against the teachings of their Lord, meaning, they have sinned.

Irrelevant trolling. I see you're having your "usual".

Lying in the defense of God is not serving God, and neither is baking a cake.

Irrelevant dodge. Strike two.

 

[bripat9643]

I know what the law says, but being served is not a right. Most of the laws passed in this country since the start of the depression violate your rights.

Don't bother spouting the law at me. All the proves is that you're a servile bootlicking Nazi.

What it proves is that you are a child who screams "but that's unfair" while ignoring reality. You are preaching to morons, who already believe the fucking nonsense that you do but the reality is quite different and that's what I deal in, the real world, not your fantasy of how life should be.

The queers have been screaming "that's unfair" for decades, but you don't seem to have problem with that. You are very selective when it comes to accusing those who claim the law is unjust of being immature. Of course, you are just a fucking Nazi who believes it's OK to impose your personal preferences on society. You're a big fat hypocrite, in other words.

When you tell the queers to quit whining and shut the fuck up, perhaps someone will take your whining seriously . . . . . .

Nah!

Until they are treated as equals, which they are but aren't treated as such, bitch away...

You don't give a fuck about my rights, so why should you care about anyone else's rights? Why are only the queer's rights important?

Your rights are already protected, as are mine. Now we are protecting the rights of others, which means nothing at all to you my little infant becaus it doesn't help you so therefore it doesn't matter, to you that is...

Wrong. The federal government routinely violates my rights by forcing me to serve queers. There is no right to be served or to marry someone of the same gender.

What's obvious is that when some people whine about their so-called "rights," you're a cheerleader, and when other people point out the government is trampling on their rights, you tell them to shut the fuck up and quit whining.

You're the biggest hypocrite in the forum.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

What it proves is that you are a child who screams "but that's unfair" while ignoring reality. You are preaching to morons, who already believe the fucking nonsense that you do but the reality is quite different and that's what I deal in, the real world, not your fantasy of how life should be.

The queers have been screaming "that's unfair" for decades, but you don't seem to have problem with that. You are very selective when it comes to accusing those who claim the law is unjust of being immature. Of course, you are just a fucking Nazi who believes it's OK to impose your personal preferences on society. You're a big fat hypocrite, in other words.

When you tell the queers to quit whining and shut the fuck up, perhaps someone will take your whining seriously . . . . . .

Nah!

Until they are treated as equals, which they are but aren't treated as such, bitch away...

You don't give a fuck about my rights, so why should you care about anyone else's rights? Why are only the queer's rights important?

Your rights are already protected, as are mine. Now we are protecting the rights of others, which means nothing at all to you my little infant becaus it doesn't help you so therefore it doesn't matter, to you that is...

Wrong. The federal government routinely violates my rights by forcing me to serve queers. There is no right to be served or to marry someone of the same gender.

What's obvious is that when some people whine about their so-called "rights," you're a cheerleader, and when other people point out the government is trampling on their rights, you tell them to shut the fuck up and quit whining.

You're the biggest hypocrite in the forum.

You hate equality my little infant, it doesn't serve you, while I embrace it. It makes others equal to me and I approve. That is why you hate it, others become your equals.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Lying, so Christian, so moral.

My point stands. It's the statement of disapproval that makes it illegal. If they simply refuse to reveal their reasons, they get a pass.

And go against the teachings of their Lord, meaning, they have sinned.

Irrelevant trolling. I see you're having your "usual".

Lying in the defense of God is not serving God, and neither is baking a cake.

Irrelevant dodge. Strike two.

The truths you reject is no dodge.

 

[bripat9643]

The queers have been screaming "that's unfair" for decades, but you don't seem to have problem with that. You are very selective when it comes to accusing those who claim the law is unjust of being immature. Of course, you are just a fucking Nazi who believes it's OK to impose your personal preferences on society. You're a big fat hypocrite, in other words.

When you tell the queers to quit whining and shut the fuck up, perhaps someone will take your whining seriously . . . . . .

Nah!

Until they are treated as equals, which they are but aren't treated as such, bitch away...

You don't give a fuck about my rights, so why should you care about anyone else's rights? Why are only the queer's rights important?

Your rights are already protected, as are mine. Now we are protecting the rights of others, which means nothing at all to you my little infant becaus it doesn't help you so therefore it doesn't matter, to you that is...

Wrong. The federal government routinely violates my rights by forcing me to serve queers. There is no right to be served or to marry someone of the same gender.

What's obvious is that when some people whine about their so-called "rights," you're a cheerleader, and when other people point out the government is trampling on their rights, you tell them to shut the fuck up and quit whining.

You're the biggest hypocrite in the forum.

You hate equality my little infant, it doesn't serve you, while I embrace it. It makes others equal to me and I approve. That is why you hate it, others become your equals.

You can speculate about my motives all you like. It doesn't amount to a hill of beans. The one thing we know about you is that you're a Nazi who support genocide.

 

[RKMBrown]

"Oregon imposes gag order on Christian bakers in gay wedding case"

Another ridiculous lie from the right.

Another ridiculous lie from another bigot. Why do you claim this crap is from the right? Why are you such a partisan POS?

Was this reported in the non-right news as being a gag order that prevents this couple from talking about their views?

What makes you think the right is run by some editor of a web site?

 

[Flopper]

There is very good reason. It should make no difference to a business who buys their cakes, eat's in their restaurant, or stays in their motel as long they are paid for the product or service and the customer conducts themselves properly.

Says who? As web developer, I can tell you that when someone asks me to build them website, I take a keen interest in who they are and what they're up to. And if I'm not comfortable with them or their plans, I refuse to serve them.

Not every business person is fixated on the bottom line.

There's nothing wrong with denying someone your service as along are you doing so for business reasons and your decision is not based on illegal discriminatory practices. It's all about your reason for denying service.

Exactly. These laws have nothing to do with equal rights and everything to do with targeting specific biases for suppression. That's creepy shit in my book, and will be used against us.

The laws are not about suppressing bias but rather suppressing specific actions that may result from those biases that hurt others. You can hate gays, blacks, Mexicans, Jews but when those biased turn into jobs discrimination, denial or services, and unequal protection under the law then that is creepy shit.

There is no meaningful distinction between the two. The question you have to answer is why you believe anyone is entitled to force me to serve them.

There is certainly a distinction between having biased and taking actions based on those biases. You may consider blacks as inferior, gays as an abomination, Jews as the murders of Christ, Latinos as lazy but that is entirely different than denying service, jobs, and equal protection under the law based on those biases. If you are incapable of seeing this, then there is no need for further discussion.

 

[dblack]

Says who? As web developer, I can tell you that when someone asks me to build them website, I take a keen interest in who they are and what they're up to. And if I'm not comfortable with them or their plans, I refuse to serve them.

Not every business person is fixated on the bottom line.

There's nothing wrong with denying someone your service as along are you doing so for business reasons and your decision is not based on illegal discriminatory practices. It's all about your reason for denying service.

Exactly. These laws have nothing to do with equal rights and everything to do with targeting specific biases for suppression. That's creepy shit in my book, and will be used against us.

The laws are not about suppressing bias but rather suppressing specific actions that may result from those biases that hurt others. You can hate gays, blacks, Mexicans, Jews but when those biased turn into jobs discrimination, denial or services, and unequal protection under the law then that is creepy shit.

There is no meaningful distinction between the two. The question you have to answer is why you believe anyone is entitled to force me to serve them.

There is certainly a distinction between having biased and taking actions based on those biases. You may consider blacks as inferior, gays as an abomination, Jews as the murders of Christ, Latinos as lazy but that is entirely different than denying service, jobs, and equal protection under the law based on those biases. If you are incapable of seeing this, then there is no need for further discussion.

Equal protection under the law isn't the same thing as trying to ensure that everyone treats everyone else equally. It's vital that government treat everyone equally, because it has the power to use force against us if we don't abide. But businesses and other citizens have no such power. We can always walk away when we disagree.

 

[Flopper]

There's nothing wrong with denying someone your service as along are you doing so for business reasons and your decision is not based on illegal discriminatory practices. It's all about your reason for denying service.

Exactly. These laws have nothing to do with equal rights and everything to do with targeting specific biases for suppression. That's creepy shit in my book, and will be used against us.

The laws are not about suppressing bias but rather suppressing specific actions that may result from those biases that hurt others. You can hate gays, blacks, Mexicans, Jews but when those biased turn into jobs discrimination, denial or services, and unequal protection under the law then that is creepy shit.

There is no meaningful distinction between the two. The question you have to answer is why you believe anyone is entitled to force me to serve them.

There is certainly a distinction between having biased and taking actions based on those biases. You may consider blacks as inferior, gays as an abomination, Jews as the murders of Christ, Latinos as lazy but that is entirely different than denying service, jobs, and equal protection under the law based on those biases. If you are incapable of seeing this, then there is no need for further discussion.

Equal protection under the law isn't the same thing as trying to ensure that everyone treats everyone else equally. It's vital that government treat everyone equally, because it has the power to use force against us if we don't abide. But businesses and other citizens have no such power. We can always walk away when we disagree.

I wasn't clear in my reference to equal protection. It was in reference to carving out special legal status for religious people in order to deny services to gays and thus violate the basic principle that government morally must treat all individuals equally under the law.

A little background here. Some businesses have refused to service gays as it was against their religious beliefs to do so even though there were either local or state laws that required it. In Indiana, the legislature passed legislation which was later repealed that allowed a businesses to discriminate against gays for religious reasons. This legislation was a bit nuts because the existing Indiana anti-gay discrimination laws provided little protection for gays.

The question of weather a business has the right to discriminated against legally protected groups has been answered many times by the courts. Businesses do not have the right to deny services to anyone, regardless of what the sign says. The civil rights law make it illegal throughout the country to deny service to protected groups in the law. State laws in 20 states and various local laws make it illegal to deny service to other groups, primarily gays.

You may not think it's right but it is the law.

 

[dblack]

I wasn't clear in my reference to equal protection. It was in reference to carving out special legal status for religious people in order to deny services to gays and thus violate the basic principle that government morally must treat all individuals equally under the law.

Agreed. The First Amendment doesn't, or shouldn't by my reading of the Constitution, grant any special privileges.

The question of weather a business has the right to discriminated against legally protected groups has been answered many times by the courts.

Yep. And those answers are still being questioned. I think they were wrong.

Businesses do not have the right to deny services to anyone, regardless of what the sign says. The civil rights law make it illegal throughout the country to deny service to protected groups in the law. State laws in 20 states and various local laws make it illegal to deny service to other groups, primarily gays.

You may not think it's right but it is the law.

Yes. Many of you keep repeating that. Not sure why. But yeah, we know it's the law and we do think it's not right. Equal protection denies the concept of protected groups.