Rules For Traditionals: How People In Wedding Trades Can Defend Themselves

[Syriusly]

Whatever 'principles' these homophobic bakers are hiding behind are based in ignorance and fear. They are not 'principles' but mere excuses to perpetuate more petty repression against a class of American citizens who are committing no crime by simply being who they are.

It doesn't make any difference what their motives are. You have no right to be served by any business, period.

That claim was dealt with decades ago- the reality is you have no right to discriminate against customers based upon their race, religion, country of origin- and in several states- sexual orientation.

 

[rightwinger]

How is them declaring their business practices ruining them?

Their decisions on who will or will not be served will ruin them....not declaring it

"The let them post their intentions" compromise is a ruse by your side, and you know it.

Quick question. Do you support a $150k fine on a baker for not baking a cake?

It's not a fine for not baking a cake. It's a fine for blanket discrimination.

Semantics. not baking the cake is the original cause of the fine.

Again, the question, do you support it or not? Does not wanting to bake a cake for a gay couple really require $150k in fines as punishment?

disingenuous reframing?

it is about the sale of a cake.

Of which not wanting to leads in this case to government fines.

Again, do you support fining a baker $150k for not baking a cake?

I admire any baker who is willing to pay $150k to affirm their hatred of gays

 

[bripat9643]

Whatever 'principles' these homophobic bakers are hiding behind are based in ignorance and fear. They are not 'principles' but mere excuses to perpetuate more petty repression against a class of American citizens who are committing no crime by simply being who they are.

It doesn't make any difference what their motives are. You have no right to be served by any business, period.

Sorry Bripiss, but repeating what is wrong doesn't make it right. You lost this argument, decades ago.

Take some of your own advice. Forcing people to associate with other people they don't want to associate with is what's wrong. I realize a Nazi asshole like you will never understand that, but I will repeat it as many times as necessary for those who are capable of committing logic.

 

[bripat9643]

Whatever 'principles' these homophobic bakers are hiding behind are based in ignorance and fear. They are not 'principles' but mere excuses to perpetuate more petty repression against a class of American citizens who are committing no crime by simply being who they are.

It doesn't make any difference what their motives are. You have no right to be served by any business, period.

That claim was dealt with decades ago- the reality is you have no right to discriminate against customers based upon their race, religion, country of origin- and in several states- sexual orientation.

You mean it was ignored decades ago. You have every right to discriminate against anyone for any reason. That's called freedom - a principle you are implacably opposed to.

 

[bripat9643]

"The let them post their intentions" compromise is a ruse by your side, and you know it.

Quick question. Do you support a $150k fine on a baker for not baking a cake?

It's not a fine for not baking a cake. It's a fine for blanket discrimination.

Semantics. not baking the cake is the original cause of the fine.

Again, the question, do you support it or not? Does not wanting to bake a cake for a gay couple really require $150k in fines as punishment?

disingenuous reframing?

it is about the sale of a cake.

Of which not wanting to leads in this case to government fines.

Again, do you support fining a baker $150k for not baking a cake?

I admire any baker who is willing to pay $150k to affirm their hatred of gays

You mean you admire Nazis who persecute bakers for insisting on their First Amendment rights.

You're a fucking Nazi. That's all you proved.

 

[bripat9643]

The bakery in Westwood does just fine without making wedding cakes for same sex couples. I was there when one couple came in. The bakery has two or three a week that come in for wedding cakes. There was no problem in telling them no.

Think of the profits they are letting walk out the door. Just because they don't approve of their new customers.

It's not as if they would be consigned to flaming pits of hell because their baked goods are shared at a same sex wedding.

Their values and principles are not for sale. Is that concept beyond you? I told a lesbian couple no. They sued and I won. It is n't all that hard to create business practices that avoid compromising one's principles.

Of course if principles are for sale that would be hypocrisy.

What are these "principles" based on other than fear, hate, hurtful stereotypes and shear ignorance?

They certainly are not based on the teachings of Jesus Christ, so don't bring that religious freedom crap!

The bakery I spoke of is owned and operated by muslims. I doubt they care about Jesus Christ at all.

Jesus commanded his followers not to sin. If a Christian determines not to commit a sin they should have the freedom not to do that. They aren't stopping anyone else from being sinful if they wish. Actually no one needs a reason to not perform any act specifically required of them personally. I don't want to should be good enough.

And what is the sin on selling a cake exactly?

That's for the baker to decide, not you.

 

[bripat9643]

How about we compromise and let anti-gay marriage businesses acquire a special permit to deny gay weddings catering,
and all they need do is display the sign prominently on the front of their business, and in all their advertising and any websites they use, that they don't serve gays?

lol

The sign should read:

DUE TO OUR DEVOTION TO THE TEACHINGS OF JESUS CHRIST, WE REFUSE TO TREAT OUR NEIGHBORS AS WE WOULD HAVE OURSELVES BE TREATED, THEREFORE WE WILL NOT BAKE CAKES FOR SAME SEX WEDDINGS. PRAISE GOD.

As long as you walk around with a sign saying "I support ruining people because I disagree with them (but only when government does the dirty work for me).

How does a customer, cash in hand, ruin a business? Seems that the business is shooting itself in the foot and claiming victimization at the hands of others.

Then let the market handle it, and keep government out of it. Its not the customer, its the $150k fine the government imposes that ruins it.

Actually it would be the business decision to break the law that ends up ruining a business.

Happens fairly regularly when business' violate zoning laws, health laws, hiring laws, oh and in this case- public accommodation laws.

So those Jewish business owners in Nazi Germany got what they deserved? Is that what you're trying to say?

 

[rightwinger]

It's not a fine for not baking a cake. It's a fine for blanket discrimination.

Semantics. not baking the cake is the original cause of the fine.

Again, the question, do you support it or not? Does not wanting to bake a cake for a gay couple really require $150k in fines as punishment?

disingenuous reframing?

it is about the sale of a cake.

Of which not wanting to leads in this case to government fines.

Again, do you support fining a baker $150k for not baking a cake?

I admire any baker who is willing to pay $150k to affirm their hatred of gays

You mean you admire Nazis who persecute bakers for insisting on their First Amendment rights.

You're a fucking Nazi. That's all you proved.

I respect anyone who stands by their convictions

If your hatred is worth more than $150k then you are getting what you signed up for

 

[bripat9643]

Semantics. not baking the cake is the original cause of the fine.

Again, the question, do you support it or not? Does not wanting to bake a cake for a gay couple really require $150k in fines as punishment?

disingenuous reframing?

it is about the sale of a cake.

Of which not wanting to leads in this case to government fines.

Again, do you support fining a baker $150k for not baking a cake?

I admire any baker who is willing to pay $150k to affirm their hatred of gays

You mean you admire Nazis who persecute bakers for insisting on their First Amendment rights.

You're a fucking Nazi. That's all you proved.

I respect anyone who stands by their convictions

If your hatred is worth more than $150k then you are getting what you signed up for

As I said: You're a fucking Nazi. That's all you proved.

 

[Nosmo King]

disingenuous reframing?

it is about the sale of a cake.

Of which not wanting to leads in this case to government fines.

Again, do you support fining a baker $150k for not baking a cake?

I admire any baker who is willing to pay $150k to affirm their hatred of gays

You mean you admire Nazis who persecute bakers for insisting on their First Amendment rights.

You're a fucking Nazi. That's all you proved.

I respect anyone who stands by their convictions

If your hatred is worth more than $150k then you are getting what you signed up for

As I said: You're a fucking Nazi. That's all you proved.

You know nothing about Nazis or freedom. Freedom does not mean you can discriminate. Discrimination erodes freedom.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Whatever 'principles' these homophobic bakers are hiding behind are based in ignorance and fear. They are not 'principles' but mere excuses to perpetuate more petty repression against a class of American citizens who are committing no crime by simply being who they are.

Correct.

And business owners are at liberty to, through the political process, advocate that their state or local public accommodations laws be repealed if they find them so 'offensive.'

 

[Kosh]

Whatever 'principles' these homophobic bakers are hiding behind are based in ignorance and fear. They are not 'principles' but mere excuses to perpetuate more petty repression against a class of American citizens who are committing no crime by simply being who they are.

Correct.

And business owners are at liberty to, through the political process, advocate that their state or local public accommodations laws be repealed if they find them so 'offensive.'

Gee one far left drone agreeing with another far left drone..

What are the odds of that?

 

[bripat9643]

Of which not wanting to leads in this case to government fines.

Again, do you support fining a baker $150k for not baking a cake?

I admire any baker who is willing to pay $150k to affirm their hatred of gays

You mean you admire Nazis who persecute bakers for insisting on their First Amendment rights.

You're a fucking Nazi. That's all you proved.

I respect anyone who stands by their convictions

If your hatred is worth more than $150k then you are getting what you signed up for

As I said: You're a fucking Nazi. That's all you proved.

You know nothing about Nazis or freedom. Freedom does not mean you can discriminate. Discrimination erodes freedom.

Yes it does. That's exactly what it means. Freedom means there's no Gaystapo telling you who you can do business with. Freedom means the absence of government initiated coercion. You're claiming freedom is where government runs your business and your life.

 

[bripat9643]

Whatever 'principles' these homophobic bakers are hiding behind are based in ignorance and fear. They are not 'principles' but mere excuses to perpetuate more petty repression against a class of American citizens who are committing no crime by simply being who they are.

Correct.

And business owners are at liberty to, through the political process, advocate that their state or local public accommodations laws be repealed if they find them so 'offensive.'

Well, that makes it OK then, right? I mean if you can submit some meaningless petition that politicians will ignore, then you are still free!

WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!

Your understanding of freedom makes me want to vomit.

Stalin would love it.

 

[danielpalos]

Whatever 'principles' these homophobic bakers are hiding behind are based in ignorance and fear. They are not 'principles' but mere excuses to perpetuate more petty repression against a class of American citizens who are committing no crime by simply being who they are.

It doesn't make any difference what their motives are. You have no right to be served by any business, period.

Sorry Bripiss, but repeating what is wrong doesn't make it right. You lost this argument, decades ago.

Take some of your own advice. Forcing people to associate with other people they don't want to associate with is what's wrong. I realize a Nazi asshole like you will never understand that, but I will repeat it as many times as necessary for those who are capable of committing logic.

No one required them to go into business on a for-profit basis if they would rather find Capitalism useless for any moral passion of the moment--it is what not-for-profit status is for.

 

[ogibillm]

Whatever 'principles' these homophobic bakers are hiding behind are based in ignorance and fear. They are not 'principles' but mere excuses to perpetuate more petty repression against a class of American citizens who are committing no crime by simply being who they are.

Correct.

And business owners are at liberty to, through the political process, advocate that their state or local public accommodations laws be repealed if they find them so 'offensive.'

Well, that makes it OK then, right? I mean if you can submit some meaningless petition that politicians will ignore, then you are still free!

WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!

Your understanding of freedom makes me want to vomit.

Stalin would love it.

Again, you can bitch all you want, but the courts, law, and constitution are against you

 

[Pop23]

Whatever 'principles' these homophobic bakers are hiding behind are based in ignorance and fear. They are not 'principles' but mere excuses to perpetuate more petty repression against a class of American citizens who are committing no crime by simply being who they are.

Correct.

And business owners are at liberty to, through the political process, advocate that their state or local public accommodations laws be repealed if they find them so 'offensive.'

Or amended

 

[danielpalos]

Whatever 'principles' these homophobic bakers are hiding behind are based in ignorance and fear. They are not 'principles' but mere excuses to perpetuate more petty repression against a class of American citizens who are committing no crime by simply being who they are.

Correct.

And business owners are at liberty to, through the political process, advocate that their state or local public accommodations laws be repealed if they find them so 'offensive.'

Well, that makes it OK then, right? I mean if you can submit some meaningless petition that politicians will ignore, then you are still free!

WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!

Your understanding of freedom makes me want to vomit.

Stalin would love it.

Again, you can bitch all you want, but the courts, law, and constitution are against you

No one required them to go into business on a for-profit basis if they would rather find Capitalism useless for any moral passion of the moment--it is what not-for-profit status is for.

is it too simple for a social moral?

 

[Dragonlady]

I admire any baker who is willing to pay $150k to affirm their hatred of gays

You mean you admire Nazis who persecute bakers for insisting on their First Amendment rights.

You're a fucking Nazi. That's all you proved.

I respect anyone who stands by their convictions

If your hatred is worth more than $150k then you are getting what you signed up for

As I said: You're a fucking Nazi. That's all you proved.

You know nothing about Nazis or freedom. Freedom does not mean you can discriminate. Discrimination erodes freedom.

Yes it does. That's exactly what it means. Freedom means there's no Gaystapo telling you who you can do business with. Freedom means the absence of government initiated coercion. You're claiming freedom is where government runs your business and your life.

Freedom means you can walk into any business open to the public and purchase their goods and services, without being turned away on the basis of you race, age, sex, religion, or sexual orientation. Period. End of story.

If you want to be in business, you cannot impugn the freedom of your customers.

 

[Pop23]

Donald Rumseld said he championed the end to the draft as it was the only thing the Government could do that forces a citizen to do against their will.

Not exactly true.