Privitizing military bennies

[Valerie]

Lordy, lordy. You are making an idealogical arguement. I am a blue collar liberal. Don't come at me with ideological arguements, show me where your ideas have been put into policy, how it worked, and for whom it worked.

We saw how putting even the care of the building the returning wounded vets were housed in into the hands of private business worked. It was a shame to our nation.

Dana Priest On Walter Reed: An 'Unbelievable' Story of 'Neglect' and 'Indifference' | ThinkProgress

That is the record of private business and the care of our Veterans. Sorry, you failed once, and I don't feel like giving you another chance to damage our returning wounded Veterans.

I specifically said twice, I am not making an argument, I am trying to think the argument through... I'm thinking, insurance is Insurance.


Not sure what your argument is...?

 

[Old Rocks]

Valerie, do you have a dd214?

 

[Valerie]

Then enlighten us as to how you would envision this transformation!

I'm sure Mitt Romney will speak for himself soon enough... It's just a matter of shuffling papers, really... And yeah, the veterans already use "fee basis providers" so what's the big deal as long as we INSURE our Vets are supported...?

"WE?"

It is the vets themselves who INSURE our vets are supported. I doubt anyone else every gives it a passing thought.

Uhh we're talking about INSURING that our Vets get taken care of by the Government...

 

[Old Rocks]

My arguement is that we tried that already. And it was a dismal shameful failure.

Do you have a dd214, Valerie? If not, why are you so sure that you have the right to decide how our Vets should be cared for?

 

[Valerie]

Valerie, do you have a dd214?

No.

 

[Old Rocks]

I'm sure Mitt Romney will speak for himself soon enough... It's just a matter of shuffling papers, really... And yeah, the veterans already use "fee basis providers" so what's the big deal as long as we INSURE our Vets are supported...?

"WE?"

It is the vets themselves who INSURE our vets are supported. I doubt anyone else every gives it a passing thought.

Uhh we're talking about INSURING that our Vets get taken care of by the Govenment...

Like at Walter Reed. You are making ideological arguements. Sorry, I value the lives and health of our returning wounded Vets far more than arguements from ideologues like you.

 

[Sunshine]

I'm sure Mitt Romney will speak for himself soon enough... It's just a matter of shuffling papers, really... And yeah, the veterans already use "fee basis providers" so what's the big deal as long as we INSURE our Vets are supported...?

"WE?"

It is the vets themselves who INSURE our vets are supported. I doubt anyone else every gives it a passing thought.

Uhh we're talking about INSURING that our Vets get taken care of by the Government...

That will not happen at the hands of providers who have to make a profit.

 

[Valerie]

My arguement is that we tried that already. And it was a dismal shameful failure.

Do you have a dd214, Valerie? If not, why are you so sure that you have the right to decide how our Vets should be cared for?

Who said I was SO sure Iiiii have a right "to decide"?


Why don't you show here what happened that was SO terrible that made you have this opinion. You know, maybe you could show some facts we could discuss...?

 

[Old Rocks]

You already know the facts. They were laid out in the investigation at Walter Reed.

Our wounded Vets deserve the best this nation can provide them, not the services of the lowest bidder.

 

[Valerie]

"WE?"

It is the vets themselves who INSURE our vets are supported. I doubt anyone else every gives it a passing thought.

Uhh we're talking about INSURING that our Vets get taken care of by the Govenment...

Like at Walter Reed. You are making ideological arguements. Sorry, I value the lives and health of our returning wounded Vets far more than arguements from ideologues like you.

Great, another asshole who can't have an honest discussion. Awesome.






Insurance is Insurance... The US should take care of it's veterans, OF COURSE!




The Great American Parrot

Walter Reed, Walter Reed...

 

[Valerie]

You already know the facts. They were laid out in the investigation at Walter Reed.

Our wounded Vets deserve the best this nation can provide them, not the services of the lowest bidder.

YOU cried about making an argument and now you want to blow off the facts.

 

[Valerie]

"WE?"

It is the vets themselves who INSURE our vets are supported. I doubt anyone else every gives it a passing thought.

Uhh we're talking about INSURING that our Vets get taken care of by the Government...

That will not happen at the hands of providers who have to make a profit.

That's bullshit. Insurance is Insurance.

 

[jillian]

That's bullshit. Insurance is Insurance.

hey, val, i could be wrong, but i don't think medical insurance pays for vets to be treated. i think it's actually government provided health care since the doctors, etc., are employees of the government. i don't think there's a profit-incentive for them at a V.A. Hospita since they're salariedl. that wouldn't be the case if they had medical insurance paying for vets to be cared for in private facilities. i suspect that's why care got so bad at walter reed when they privatized the management company there.

 

[Valerie]

To be clear, military health insurance ALREADY allows you to see private providers.



The issue Romney was addressing is providing Insurance options to Veterans.

 

[Sunshine]

That's bullshit. Insurance is Insurance.

hey, val, i could be wrong, but i don't think medical insurance pays for vets to be treated. i think it's actually government provided health care since the doctors, etc., are employees of the government. i don't think there's a profit-incentive for them at a V.A. Hospita since they're salariedl. that wouldn't be the case if they had medical insurance paying for vets to be cared for in private facilities. i suspect that's why care got so bad at walter reed when they privatized the management company there.

A lot of older vets also have Medicare. Moreover, the VA takes private and employer provided insurance. So the government isn't footing the entire bill. A lot of vets work and prefer to get their care at the VA where they present their employer provided health insurance cards upon checking in.

 

[Valerie]

That's bullshit. Insurance is Insurance.

hey, val, i could be wrong, but i don't think medical insurance pays for vets to be treated. i think it's actually government provided health care since the doctors, etc., are employees of the government. i don't think there's a profit-incentive for them at a V.A. Hospita since they're salariedl. that wouldn't be the case if they had medical insurance paying for vets to be cared for in private facilities. i suspect that's why care got so bad at walter reed when they privatized the management company there.

I know that active military have an option to go to private providers. There is a whole system of providers within the military as well. Not sure if Vets are required to stay within the Government system for medical treatment, but the suggestion is, you have an Insurance card that you can give at the front desk either way...Medical protocol does not differ and insurance payments are the same...An agreed upon schedule of usual and customary fees and a universal standard of care. Why shouldn't the vet have an option...? Why shouldn't the private sector be allowed to offer an alternative?

 

[Sunshine]

That's bullshit. Insurance is Insurance.

hey, val, i could be wrong, but i don't think medical insurance pays for vets to be treated. i think it's actually government provided health care since the doctors, etc., are employees of the government. i don't think there's a profit-incentive for them at a V.A. Hospita since they're salariedl. that wouldn't be the case if they had medical insurance paying for vets to be cared for in private facilities. i suspect that's why care got so bad at walter reed when they privatized the management company there.

I know that active military have an option to go to private providers. There is a whole system of providers within the military as well. Not sure if Vets are required to stay within the Government system for medical treatment, but the suggestion is, you have an Insurance card that you can give at the front desk either way...Medical protocol does not differ and insurance payments are the same...An agreed upon schedule of usual and customary fees and a universal standard of care. Why shouldn't the vet have an option...? Why shouldn't the private sector be allowed to offer an alternative?

There is no 'universal standard of care.'

I seriously doubt that profit motivated providers in the private sector would want what the VA would pay. They didn't want what TennCare paid and were forced by the state of TN to take TennCare of be thrown off the state's employee panels of providers.

 

[Amelia]

Mitten seems to think it's a good idea.

What say you?

I say context matters.

And so does a willingness to talk things out.



What Romney actually said was not an endorsement of the idea, iiuc. It was tossing it out onto the table as a possible way to bring accountability to the VA.

 

[Si modo]

We saw how this worked at Walter Reed. We do not need to go through that again, and that Romney even suggests it is reason enough not to vote for him.

If you're talking about the deplorable conditions uncovered by the WaPo, that was a military decision based on the pending BRAC.

 

[Greenbeard]

We saw how this worked at Walter Reed. We do not need to go through that again, and that Romney even suggests it is reason enough not to vote for him.

If you're talking about the deplorable conditions uncovered by the WaPo, that was the government. There was nothing private about that.

Flashback: Committee subpoenas former Walter Reed chief - Army News | News from Afghanistan & Iraq - Army Times

Committee Chairman Henry Waxman and subcommittee Chairman John Tierney asked Weightman to testify about an internal memo that showed privatization of services at Walter Reed could put “patient care services… at risk of mission failure.”

But Army officials refused to allow Weightman to appear before the committee after he was relieved of command.

“The Army was unable to provide a satisfactory explanation for the decision to prevent General Weightman from testifying,” committee members said in a statement today.

The committee wants to learn more about a letter written in September by Garrison Commander Peter Garibaldi to Weightman.

The memorandum “describes how the Army’s decision to privatize support services at Walter Reed Army Medical Center was causing an exodus of ‘highly skilled and experienced personnel,’” the committee’s letter states. “According to multiple sources, the decision to privatize support services at Walter Reed led to a precipitous drop in support personnel at Walter Reed.”

The letter said Walter Reed also awarded a five-year, $120-million contract to IAP Worldwide Services, which is run by Al Neffgen, a former senior Halliburton official.

They also found that more than 300 federal employees providing facilities management services at Walter Reed had drooped to fewer than 60 by Feb. 3, 2007, the day before IAP took over facilities management. IAP replaced the remaining 60 employees with only 50 private workers.

“The conditions that have been described at Walter Reed are disgraceful,” the letter states. “Part of our mission on the Oversight Committee is to investigate what led to the breakdown in services. It would be reprehensible if the deplorable conditions were caused or aggravated by an ideological commitment to privatize government services regardless of the costs to taxpayers and the consequences for wounded soldiers.”

The letter said the Defense Department “systemically” tried to replace federal workers at Walter Reed with private companies for facilities management, patient care and guard duty – a process that began in 2000.

“But the push to privatize support services there accelerated under President Bush’s ‘competitive sourcing’ initiative, which was launched in 2002,” the letter states.

During the year between awarding the contract to IAP and when the company started, “skilled government workers apparently began leaving Walter Reed in droves,” the letter states. “The memorandum also indicates that officials at the highest levels of Walter Reed and the U.S. Army Medical Command were informed about the dangers of privatization, but appeared to do little to prevent them.”

The memo signed by Garibaldi requests more federal employees because the hospital mission had grown “significantly” during the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. It states that medical command did not concur with their request for more people.

“Without favorable consideration of these requests,” Garibaldi wrote, “[Walter Reed Army Medical Center] Base Operations and patient care services are at risk of mission failure.”