keys to the kingdom

[luchitociencia]

having not read the book first being discussed how would you know - anything ... the century they took to write the christian bible might encourage anyone to take pause for finding anything original in that book or that is not either forged or buried (obliterated) per the whim of the authors. perhaps {sic} your wisdom was simply not to read it.

I have not only read but review the Hebrew version of Tanach. It was an assignment which I made as a favor for a Pastor who wanted to publish his own bible. His attempts didn't go far anyway, he didn't received enough funds for his publication. Later I heard he returned back all the donations.

I have also read the "New Testament", but from these books I didn't go far with the Greek version, but only sporadic topics which I needed for other studies.

And, of course, I have assisted to many churches and congregations, and I have been observing their doctrines, their rituals, the followers.

 

[james bond]

Sorry, James - you do not pass go or collect $200 with your extreme outlier position that evolution is a hoax. It's not worth debating your types on the internet...in fact, it's probably indicative of a mental malfunction to even think to want to do so. It's tedious, it's boring, and to tell you the truth it's downright fucking childish to play this deny evolution game. Not worth it.

Sure evolution is a hoax. All of Darwin thesis have been debunked. I can't help it if you are dumb enough to not recognize it as brainwashing. Some atheist scientist comes up with a theory backing evolution. The lib media repeats it until you believe it. Otherwise, the scientific method would back you up and everyone, including I, would believe you and change our minds. But like I said evolution is a hoax, so all you have is circumstantial evidence and brainwashing.

It's peer reviewed and settled as theory - you are a kook on the internet screaming otherwise. Non-factor.

Haha, you are a joke. And you're telling me to not pass go and collect $200? What a hypocrite! You have no link and the secular and atheist scientists have removed the creation scientists from participating in their peer reviews. It's biased science based on false ToE and evolutionary thinking and history. The arguments should be creation vs evolution and we do that on message boards today. That's where scientific arguments are being waged today. The stupid atheist scientists have removed their competition because they know they are wrong.

I don't care about you or your crackpot theories, I simply really don't. I see that it's an issue that triggers you, you melt all over the boards about evolution. Calm the fuck down, un-obsess yourself and believe whatever the fuck you wanna believe.

Haha, you just can't take the truth. Now you are coming unglued. You do not sound like the science type. Let me give you an example of brainwashing. I read that the universe was 13.7 B years old according to the Lambda-CDM model based on the big bang and CMB. This assumes big bang happened which violates the laws of physics. The media reported it in the general news and science sections. Now, this is months later and the media is repeating the same thing. If it was fact, then why do they keep repeating it? This went on for a few more months in every article about Earth or the universe, we were told the Earth is 4.5 B years old (from 1956!) and universe is 13.7 B (from 2015). That made me suspicious because no one needs to have facts repeated over and over.

Prior to the age of the universe, they dated the moon rocks using radiometric dating around 1980. What do you think they got? Same age as the Earth? Younger age than the Earth? Older age than the Earth? I think you know very little, so you got a 1 in 3 chance of getting this right. Like I said, you do not sound like the science type, so you want to run away like a little kid. Run, run, run, run away . Either that or answer the question like a grown up would with your evolutionary thinking. I just gave you evolutionary thinking's age of the Earth and age of the universe. Can you give me the answer for the age of the moon?

Creation science and I say it's the same young age as the Earth and universe, about 6,000 years old. That's based on creation and there is evidence to back it up, but the creation scientists are not allowed to present their theory in peer review. I've never learned science that way. I guess I'm old school.

 

[ding]

Sorry, James - you do not pass go or collect $200 with your extreme outlier position that evolution is a hoax. It's not worth debating your types on the internet...in fact, it's probably indicative of a mental malfunction to even think to want to do so. It's tedious, it's boring, and to tell you the truth it's downright fucking childish to play this deny evolution game. Not worth it.

I guess I'm interrupting a discussion here but the theory of evolution is just a good for nothing theory, like relativity.

See? those theories were invented centuries ago, and today, with modern technology and better knowledge, those old theories are found to be not only in error but obsolete for what the new discoveries are showing about the universe and about life on earth.

You are defending a theory which is holding you to grow up intellectually.

Believing in the theory of evolution it does desensitize you. You better review that theory, and you will find its numerous flaws.

Ok, I’ll bite. What do those new discoveries show about the universe and about life on earth?

 

[BreezeWood]

having not read the book first being discussed how would you know - anything ... the century they took to write the christian bible might encourage anyone to take pause for finding anything original in that book or that is not either forged or buried (obliterated) per the whim of the authors. perhaps {sic} your wisdom was simply not to read it.

I have not only read but review the Hebrew version of Tanach. It was an assignment which I made as a favor for a Pastor who wanted to publish his own bible. His attempts didn't go far anyway, he didn't received enough funds for his publication. Later I heard he returned back all the donations.

I have also read the "New Testament", but from these books I didn't go far with the Greek version, but only sporadic topics which I needed for other studies.

And, of course, I have assisted to many churches and congregations, and I have been observing their doctrines, their rituals, the followers.

.

I have also read the "New Testament", but from these books I didn't go far with the Greek version, but only sporadic topics which I needed for other studies.

You have no idea of how many miracles and events never happened the way your bible says they did occur. Wisdom helps you to understand what the scriptures say in reality.

you seem evasive in your answers, perhaps from your responses is wisdom, its cumulative effect or the (interpretive) ancient publications the means to sustaining life in the Everlasting for an individual.

 

[hobelim]

The Resurrection has already occurred. You can't deny history

If scripture is true and the consequence for setting aside divine instruction to defiantly practice idolatry is death, then all people who worship Jesus, a human being, as if he was the living God have not resurrected from the dead whether or not Jesus and his followers did thousands of years ago, no matter how many times you pray to God for forgiveness for your sins, no matter how many times you go to church, grovel on your knees, crawl on your belly, throw spare change at the preacher, or persecute and denigrate everyone who knows that you have gone completely mad and rejects the irrational bullshit that has addled your mind.


The truth is that there never was nor will there ever be a human being that was God or became God either before, during or after their human existence. Thats a fact.


People have been unsuccessfully searching for the Holy Grail, the cup that Jesus made the nations drink, for a very long time. Thats a fact.


Here it is:


"Take from my hand this cup of fiery wine and make all the nations to whom I send you drink it. When they have drunk it they will vomit and go mad; such is the sword that I am sending among them."




The Holy Grail is a curse under the appearance of a cup of wine. This is the sword that Jesus said he came to bring to deliberately "smite the nations." (Rev. 19:15)


You worship an imaginary three in one God who diddled a virgin to father himself, became a diaper wearing baby boy, said things that no one understood, partied with sinners and prostitutes, and was despised, rejected, and crucified because he loved the roman world so much and you wouldn't have to pay the price for being a dick.

You are drunk on a maudlin cup of Jesus juice and have gone completely insane.


Still works like a charm!









.

 

[luchitociencia]

Ok, I’ll bite. What do those new discoveries show about the universe and about life on earth?

Simple.

A lab woman just put acid on fossils which were assumed to have an age of 65 millions and 80 millions years of age. And the minerals of the fossil were diluted, but at the same time hemoglobin was detected.

Scientifically, there is not a single chance, not at all, zero possibility, that hemoglobin can survive so well for millions of years. To think that hemoglobin can do that is completely peanuts.

The radiometric method to measure the age of the earth is simply laughable.

If you, by any chance, learn science, you will follow the rules when you apply the scientific method. You have no room for conjectures or infantile imaginations. When applying the scientific method, no matter what the scientists say but what it matters is the result of the tests, the observation, and more.

In science, everything must be verified. Verifying is not only repeating the same test a million times but testing it using a different method of measure. Without this "second opinion", the assumed measure given by a sole method is not enough to validate the results.

For example, you use the Carbon 14 method to check the age of a tree. This method says the tree is 2,800 years old. Then, in order to verify this result, you must use a different method and put this last one against the Carbon 14 method.

Then, you cut the tree trunk and count the inside rings, which by understanding, the trees make one internal ring per year. And the counting is 2,690 rings.

There you go, the radiometric method Carbon 14 has been validated.

So, you accept the age of earth as billions of years, the fossils as millions of years, and all those childhood imaginations, in base of a radiometric method made for inorganic matter, a radiometric method which has never ever been verified.

Sorry, but your assumptions about the age of fossils and earth are simply unacceptable as valid. As long as you don't verify the radiometric method used to measure them, then you are just talking mere assumptions.

These are rules of science, and no one can overpass them.

Because if you accept such never verified measures taken by you as "facts", then without any verification the existence of God must be accepted by you as well.

You just can't play "the scientist" when you yourself break the rules of the scientific method. Go and find a way of verifying those measures of yours, because -as the case with the hemoglobin in fossils- reality is telling you how wrong you are in this issue.

 

[luchitociencia]

you seem evasive in your answers, perhaps from your responses is wisdom, its cumulative effect or the (interpretive) ancient publications the means to sustaining life in the Everlasting for an individual.

No, in this last reply I didn't apply wisdom, I just tried to answer smart, that's all.

 

[G.T.]

The Resurrection has already occurred. You can't deny history

If scripture is true and the consequence for setting aside divine instruction to defiantly practice idolatry is death, then all people who worship Jesus, a human being, as if he was the living God have not resurrected from the dead whether or not Jesus and his followers did thousands of years ago, no matter how many times you pray to God for forgiveness for your sins, no matter how many times you go to church, grovel on your knees, crawl on your belly, throw spare change at the preacher, or persecute and denigrate everyone who knows that you have gone completely mad and rejects the irrational bullshit that has addled your mind.


The truth is that there never was nor will there ever be a human being that was God or became God either before, during or after their human existence. Thats a fact.


People have been unsuccessfully searching for the Holy Grail, the cup that Jesus made the nations drink, for a very long time. Thats a fact.


Here it is:


"Take from my hand this cup of fiery wine and make all the nations to whom I send you drink it. When they have drunk it they will vomit and go mad; such is the sword that I am sending among them."




The Holy Grail is a curse under the appearance of a cup of wine. This is the sword that Jesus said he came to bring to deliberately "smite the nations." (Rev. 19:15)


You worship an imaginary three in one God who diddled a virgin to father himself, became a diaper wearing baby boy, said things that no one understood, partied with sinners and prostitutes, and was despised, rejected, and crucified because he loved the roman world so much and you wouldn't have to pay the price for being a dick.

You are drunk on a maudlin cup of Jesus juice and have gone completely insane.


Still works like a charm!









.

And moses said it was okay for you divine creatures to own slaves and sell your daughters, sorry scummers are gunna scum

 

[Meriweather]

Scientifically, there is not a single chance, not at all, zero possibility, that hemoglobin can survive so well for millions of years. To think that hemoglobin can do that is completely peanuts.

Before this find, science didn't think hemoglobin could survive for so long. This discovery showed that under certain conditions it can. Soft tissue does decay/disintegrate over time. But remember, the hemoglobin that was extracted was extracted from within a bone (hard material).

Let's talk about Young Earth Creationists and how they came to their conclusions. In the 1600s, James Ussher, using the English translation of the Bible of his day, decided the Bible could tell us how old the earth is. Had he asked, anyone whose first language was the original Hebrew could have told him the English translation did not correctly lay out what was meant by 'day' and by and 'son of'. In Hebrew, 'day' was often used for an extended period of time. We see some of this carry-over in English when someone says, "In my grandfather's day..." Literally, that would mean that the grandfather only lived one day. 'Day' in Hebrew can designate a long period of time, meaning that period of time started with this and ended, perhaps even eons later, with an ending event.

'Son of' did not always mean 'born to', but could easily mean 'Descendant of'. Biblical Hebrew had seven thousand words...compared to English where we have over a million, but generally only 170,000 words are in common use at any one time. Thus, we can see how Hebrew words had many instances of double duty.

When combing through the Bible instances of 'day' being used for an extended period of time, and 'son' being used in lieu of 'descendant' can be located by the discerning eye.

Those of us who are people of faith would be much better served in an intricate study of our own Bible than in critiquing science where we are not the expert. Meanwhile, all you have is a clergyman, thousands of years after the Bible was written, used a very different language and erroneously calculated the age of the planet. He was using the Bible for a purpose that the original authors never intended--and I'm sure those original authors would be appalled by our ignorance of the Hebrew language and how it was used.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

cuz magic

Exactly right.

But all of these religious folks don't like that word, becauee it puts their preferred magical fetish on the same shelf as all other magical fetishes and claims. And the first premise of their magical faith is that their personal magical fetish is the "ONE CORRECT MAGICAL FETISH!"

That is their starting point. This defies reason and incredulity, so you are not going to make any headway appealing to these concepts.

And it is every time.

 

[G.T.]

cuz magic

Exactly right.

But all of these religious folks don't like that word, becauee it puts their preferred magical fetish on the same shelf as all other magical fetishes and claims. And the first premise of their magical faith is that their personal magical fetish is the "ONE CORRECT MAGICAL FETISH!"

That is their starting point. This defies reason and incredulity, so you are not going to make any headway appealing to these concepts.

And it is every time.

The reason the Serpent Hobelim doesnt like the word magic is because he is conflating what he considers magic with what we the speakers mean by magic.

You cannot have a discussion with a two-face who hides his beliefs, is dishonest and while feeling free to mock others.

Hobelim doesnt consider god to be magic because he considers god to be real. So, natural and thus not magical. Not in the name, literal g.o.d....no he will say not THAT god because he considers that "name" to be a story in a book...but nonetheless he is again conflating...and believes in a magical woo woo fairy that talks to magical woo woo prophets who find fit to condone slavery and genocide but are somehow wise enough to tell hobelim how to live in their "hidden subject" method of relaying information because they, too, are two faced and were afraid to man up to what they believed in...sound familiar? Same as hobelim. He would rather speak in metaphor than have a rational, adult discussion because metaphors are left open to interpretation and the Serpent is incapable of stating its beliefs in direct language.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

You cannot have a discussion with a two-face who hides his beliefs, is dishonest and while feeling free to mock others.

You nailed that one. Try as you might to understand any point hobelim makes, despite any excruciating and completely honest attempt to understand his points, you will ALWAYS be wrong. And it will always be YOUR fault for "not understanding" what hobelim is trying to say. Just ask him. And it is every single time.

 

[luchitociencia]

Before this find, science didn't think hemoglobin could survive for so long. This discovery showed that under certain conditions it can. Soft tissue does decay/disintegrate over time. But remember, the hemoglobin that was extracted was extracted from within a bone (hard material).

Let's talk about Young Earth Creationists and how they came to their conclusions. In the 1600s, James Ussher, using the English translation of the Bible of his day, decided the Bible could tell us how old the earth is. Had he asked, anyone whose first language was the original Hebrew could have told him the English translation did not correctly lay out what was meant by 'day' and by and 'son of'. In Hebrew, 'day' was often used for an extended period of time. We see some of this carry-over in English when someone says, "In my grandfather's day..." Literally, that would mean that the grandfather only lived one day. 'Day' in Hebrew can designate a long period of time, meaning that period of time started with this and ended, perhaps even eons later, with an ending event.

'Son of' did not always mean 'born to', but could easily mean 'Descendant of'. Biblical Hebrew had seven thousand words...compared to English where we have over a million, but generally only 170,000 words are in common use at any one time. Thus, we can see how Hebrew words had many instances of double duty.

When combing through the Bible instances of 'day' being used for an extended period of time, and 'son' being used in lieu of 'descendant' can be located by the discerning eye.

Those of us who are people of faith would be much better served in an intricate study of our own Bible than in critiquing science where we are not the expert. Meanwhile, all you have is a clergyman, thousands of years after the Bible was written, used a very different language and erroneously calculated the age of the planet. He was using the Bible for a purpose that the original authors never intended--and I'm sure those original authors would be appalled by our ignorance of the Hebrew language and how it was used.

I understand your point, I know that the first verses of the book of Genesis won't mean exactly 24 hours day but a way to facilitate the learning of those steps of creation. The "steps" rather than literal days is an argument that has been accepted already. Unfortunately the common translations will persist with the use of the word "day" suggesting a literal meaning.

However, the hemoglobin belongs to a species which lived on earth just a few thousands years ago, and that this species lived in a planet (earth) from which its age is completely unknown.

And you are right, the biblical verses must be understood properly in order to obtain their correct interpretation.That not anyone can pursue the task of doing it without knowledge of the language, however more than knowledge of the language there are other requisites which are much more important for finding what those scriptures mean.

We are talking of ancient Hebrew language which differs a lot from modern Hebrew language. The structure of the language and its grammar are similar but not the same.

Just try to understand the English language from year 1400 of our current era and I will even laugh seeing you trying to understand it without problems.

I know about the ancient Hebrew because I have reviewed it. Not at full concentration with the complete scriptures, but with some areas which were of my interest.

To my surprise, not only the current clergyman have misunderstood the meaning of several passages of the bible, but even the erudite, the most high school rabbis, their greater exponents in etymology of that language, you have no idea. They themselves in their Hebrew interpretations have committed errors. It appears to me, that the rest of translators who published their bibles in other languages, that they simply took for granted the rabbinical interpretation and just copied it and translated it. This is why the same errors are found in most publications of the bible.

As my early conclusion, with respect to the correct interpretation of the bible found today, my opinion is that the great majority involved in this task have had serious problems with reading comprehension.

 

[james bond]

If scripture is true and the consequence for setting aside divine instruction to defiantly practice idolatry is death, then all people who worship Jesus, a human being, as if he was the living God have not resurrected from the dead whether or not Jesus and his followers did thousands of years ago, no matter how many times you pray to God for forgiveness for your sins, no matter how many times you go to church, grovel on your knees, crawl on your belly, throw spare change at the preacher, or persecute and denigrate everyone who knows that you have gone completely mad and rejects the irrational bullshit that has addled your mind.

ROS.

The truth is that there never was nor will there ever be a human being that was God or became God either before, during or after their human existence. Thats a fact.

Jesus is the messiah. He had to do what God the Father decided and that was to sacrifice his only son in order to pay the ransom. The evidence is the resurrection and it made all the difference in the world. We have the empty tomb, the large stone moved, various witnesses who saw him in the new flesh. And he arose. That won't happen again until the time comes.

Also, a fact is something we all could use. Yours is assertion.

People have been unsuccessfully searching for the Holy Grail, the cup that Jesus made the nations drink, for a very long time. Thats a fact.

Some fact. There is no holy grail (King Arthur, The DaVinci Code, Indiana Jones and The Last Crusade, etc.); it's a legend that fooled you .

Talk about imaginary.

 

[james bond]

The reason the Serpent Hobelim doesnt like the word magic is because he is conflating what he considers magic with what we the speakers mean by magic

hobelim is of different religion. Just because he's wacko doesn't mean God is magic. What is magic is evolution. You really have nothing to back up your assertions, e.g. the Earth being 4.5 B years old. I know it's from measuring radioactive decay, but I mean further evidence of a billions of years old Earth. Thus, you won't admit your "faith-based" science/religion of evolution is wrong no matter what the evidence is against it. Evolution is magical bullshit and I've demonstrated it here time and time again using the scientific method..

 

[james bond]

My alter ego is in the Holy Grail scene .

 

[BreezeWood]

.

you seem evasive in your answers, perhaps from your responses is wisdom, its cumulative effect or the (interpretive) ancient publications the means to sustaining life in the Everlasting for an individual.

No, in this last reply I didn't apply wisdom, I just tried to answer smart, that's all.

no seem about it - the translation of ancient text does occur orally over time concurrently to the present irregardless the written form of any time period. to be rewritten. boiled down there is no messiah to be or has been. the religion speaks for itself.

 

[ding]

Ok, I’ll bite. What do those new discoveries show about the universe and about life on earth?

Simple.

A lab woman just put acid on fossils which were assumed to have an age of 65 millions and 80 millions years of age. And the minerals of the fossil were diluted, but at the same time hemoglobin was detected.

Scientifically, there is not a single chance, not at all, zero possibility, that hemoglobin can survive so well for millions of years. To think that hemoglobin can do that is completely peanuts.

The radiometric method to measure the age of the earth is simply laughable.

If you, by any chance, learn science, you will follow the rules when you apply the scientific method. You have no room for conjectures or infantile imaginations. When applying the scientific method, no matter what the scientists say but what it matters is the result of the tests, the observation, and more.

In science, everything must be verified. Verifying is not only repeating the same test a million times but testing it using a different method of measure. Without this "second opinion", the assumed measure given by a sole method is not enough to validate the results.

For example, you use the Carbon 14 method to check the age of a tree. This method says the tree is 2,800 years old. Then, in order to verify this result, you must use a different method and put this last one against the Carbon 14 method.

Then, you cut the tree trunk and count the inside rings, which by understanding, the trees make one internal ring per year. And the counting is 2,690 rings.

There you go, the radiometric method Carbon 14 has been validated.

So, you accept the age of earth as billions of years, the fossils as millions of years, and all those childhood imaginations, in base of a radiometric method made for inorganic matter, a radiometric method which has never ever been verified.

Sorry, but your assumptions about the age of fossils and earth are simply unacceptable as valid. As long as you don't verify the radiometric method used to measure them, then you are just talking mere assumptions.

These are rules of science, and no one can overpass them.

Because if you accept such never verified measures taken by you as "facts", then without any verification the existence of God must be accepted by you as well.

You just can't play "the scientist" when you yourself break the rules of the scientific method. Go and find a way of verifying those measures of yours, because -as the case with the hemoglobin in fossils- reality is telling you how wrong you are in this issue.

I see.

I’ve been a practicing engineer for 35 years. Engineering is the commercial application of science. So I am familiar with how science works.

Do you have a background in science?

How old do you believe the earth is?

 

[hobelim]

You cannot have a discussion with a two-face who hides his beliefs, is dishonest and while feeling free to mock others.

You nailed that one. Try as you might to understand any point hobelim makes, despite any excruciating and completely honest attempt to understand his points, you will ALWAYS be wrong. And it will always be YOUR fault for "not understanding" what hobelim is trying to say. Just ask him. And it is every single time.

Wow. You morons dismiss and deride scripture as a fairy tale and magical bullshit without ever taking a stand on what those deliberately fantastical stories are teaching.


I tell you a that a talking serpent is a metaphor for a specific despicable human archetype and you claim that understanding that irrefutable point is impossible.Whats the problem? You try to think and nothing happens?

Damn.

Ancient people were not stupid. You two assholes are stupid. Dumb all over, a little ugly on the side.


Thats your problem, not mine.




I am Hobelim, Son of Meanie.

I have spoken.

 

[luchitociencia]

.

you seem evasive in your answers, perhaps from your responses is wisdom, its cumulative effect or the (interpretive) ancient publications the means to sustaining life in the Everlasting for an individual.

No, in this last reply I didn't apply wisdom, I just tried to answer smart, that's all.

no seem about it - the translation of ancient text does occur orally over time concurrently to the present irregardless the written form of any time period. to be rewritten. boiled down there is no messiah to be or has been. the religion speaks for itself.

Pierre Ivanoff, the adventurer, discovered a way how the Mayans passed their traditions from generation to generation: Singing.

He invited himself to live in a house with Mayan descendants and obtained no much information from them. However he discovered lots of ruins. One night, he finally was invited to one of those family reunions of them.

He took his recording machine. The "party" was kind of bored. Each member repeated a character in turn several times. The Serpent, the Monkey, and so forth.

When he returned to his bed, he was listening the songs, and he turned himself as happy as never, he found out the members of that family were mentioning the characters of their calendar.

This was one of the methods used by several ancient cultures to keep their traditions from generation to generation.