Josh Duggar And The Message Of Forgiveness

[NYcarbineer]

So, Christian experts, is molesting a child a mortal or venial sin?

Jesus never taught anything about a mortal or venial sin. He said if you even lust in your heart after a woman you see, it is the sin of adultery - you've done it. He said if you are even angry in your own house and call someone "fool" (Racca) that you are in danger of hell! Does that sound venial to you? When God said, The pure in heart shall see God - He meant it! No one with a filthy heart will see God. We must be pure in our thoughts and in all our ways before Him.

The teaching of venial and mortal sin is a man made teaching that is found nowhere in the bible. When Adam sinned by one act of disobedience - the consequences were devastating. Sin is sin. If you belong to a church that teaches "mortal and venial sins"? GET OUT OF THERE! They are making an excuse for sinning and you can be sure it is a cult and you'll find every sort of evil going on within!

Where is the command that Christian business owners must not serve gays found in the Bible?

 

[NYcarbineer]

these clowns on here and the majority of the hard core LEFT are so empty in their souls and hearts. they have no idea what Forgiving is

one can feel their hate spill out of our computers it's so ugly

When did you forgive Clinton?

 

[Avatar4321]

No. It would not be cool. You would be committing a terrible sin of the worst sort because there would be no way to take it back or make it right. But yes, if you hate what you did, care about your victim, feel true remorse, you will change and become a different person than what you were--a person different from the vindictive sociopath that could kill somebody just because you didn't like him. And you can be forgiven for your sin.

You will no doubt have to suffer the legal consequences for your action, but you will be living a different life even if you are in prison. Perhaps you will make what amends you can by working with others to help them learn how to deal with anger without resorting to violence. The repentent and forgiven sinners are often the most effective people in helping others overcome their own demons and become changed people.

Once you have repented--meaning you have become a changed person--what benefit to you or me or anybody is there for me to judge or hate you? That can only be destructive to us both.

No one is obligated to accept Christianity's repentance strategy. Why are you trying to impose your religion on others?

You don't understand Christian repentance. If you did you would realize it is the only strategy there is to overcome sin.

No. You're wrong. It is not the strategy to overcome sin. The only strategy to overcome sin is to surrender our hearts, our minds, our will to the Lord Jesus Christ and continue to live our life in Him and to follow Him every single day. That is the narrow path Jesus spoke of. There is no other way to overcome and unless we overcome? We will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus Christ never told any man to follow a religion or any religious leader of a church! He said, we must follow Him and His Word as it is written in the Bible. (not the Book of Mormon, not the Qu'ran, not any other Book!) Those who are followers of Christ are the Church! It's not a building, it's not an organization - it is the body of Jesus Christ! Whenever, wherever the Christians come together and praise Jesus? That's church.

You act as if I said something different. Repentance comes through Christ and the terms He provided.

You are wrong about the church not being organized though. We could save that for another discussion though.

It is through Jesus Christ of the King James Bible and there are no terms. Jesus forgives freely. You are in the Mormon church which teaches another Christ whose brother was Lucifer and Jesus having wives. That is not the Jesus Christ of the Holy Bible. It has nothing to do with Jesus Christ of Nazareth whom I serve, Avatar.

There is nothing to discuss about an organized church. Men can organize what they will but God does not approve of religion. He approves of His Son and those who follow Him with all their hearts having received Him according to Romans 10:9,10. The Body of Christ is what makes up the church. Not a denomination, religion or cult.

Please read James 1:20

 

[Avatar4321]

there is no lie in my posts, liar...

obviously my simple questions are much too 'disturbing' for you.

Right. Cause false accusations of demonizing and self righteousness for telling the truth are not lies.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Since so many threads have been created about this issue, I thought I'd create a new one with a new perspective.

Of the many aspects of this scandal that have been debated, very few have touched on the fact that Josh Duggar knew what he did was wrong, repented of it, and asked forgiveness. He then walked free from his sins. It seems the gospel of Christ has been presented so often that we become jaded to it, but this serves as an opportunity to emphasize that what Josh Duggar did is available to anyone.....just for the asking.

Why is this in the politics section and not the religion section? Because those who with the greatest passion heap scorn and ridicule on Josh Duggar need to hear this message, that the Bible tells us clearly that all have sinned, every person incurring a dept that he or she cannot possibly repay. While we pat ourselves on the back because "at least" we didn't molest several underage girls when we were teenagers, it can easily be lost on us the sobering reality that EVERY SIN IS EQUAL IN ITS CAPACITY TO SEPARATE US ETERNALLY FROM THE LOVE OF GOD.

And though it might not seem fair for somebody else to pay in our stead the debt we amassed and by all rights should be made to pay for by ourselves, Jesus Christ offered up his life in atonement for the sins of humanity.

Yes, amazingly, HE LOVED US THAT MUCH!

Josh Duggar has experienced this incredible and free gift. So have I. And it's something that cannot be bought, earned, or worked for, it can only be received by asking. And those on this board so quick to condemn ought to consider that they themselves are guilty of sin, but also that they themselves can receive complete absolution for all their sins, just as so many have, by opening their heart to the mercy of God in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Just imagine how incredible it feels to have every terrible thing you ever did completely wiped clean, so that with unsullied hearts and minds, we can freely and without shame approach the glorious throne of God and look forward to the day we spend eternity with the joy of his friendship. Although I'm very rancorous on this forum in political debates, this is a time for me to be sincere and urge you with all my heart to give your lives to Christ and become a New Creation.

It's yours for the asking.

So, if I track someone down I don't like very much from online, say a website...And kill him, as long as I ask forgiveness I can go about my merry way?

Cooool.

No. It would not be cool. You would be committing a terrible sin of the worst sort because there would be no way to take it back or make it right. But yes, if you hate what you did, care about your victim, feel true remorse, you will change and become a different person than what you were--a person different from the vindictive sociopath that could kill somebody just because you didn't like him. And you can be forgiven for your sin.

You will no doubt have to suffer the legal consequences for your action, but you will be living a different life even if you are in prison. Perhaps you will make what amends you can by working with others to help them learn how to deal with anger without resorting to violence. The repentent and forgiven sinners are often the most effective people in helping others overcome their own demons and become changed people.

Once you have repented--meaning you have become a changed person--what benefit to you or me or anybody is there for me to judge or hate you? That can only be destructive to us both.

No one is obligated to accept Christianity's repentance strategy. Why are you trying to impose your religion on others?

You don't understand Christian repentance. If you did you would realize it is the only strategy there is to overcome sin.

I understand that there are virtually no posts on USMB by conservatives proclaiming their forgiveness of Dem/lib sex offenders.

 

[NYcarbineer]

No point talking with people who lie and are hypocrites.

The invitation is always open for you. You are still loved.

Hypocrites?

Let's look at what Avatar considers unforgiveable.

Fox s Van Susteren delaying Benghazi report till 2016 will HURT the GOP US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

lol

Who says that's unforgivable?

Really if you want to seriously debate me you need to stop lying.

That was misattributed to you. Wrong poster. I sincerely apologize.

(now I get to get forgiven!)

 

[Avatar4321]

I agree. mortal and denial sins are a Catholic th. As no one is Catholic in this discussion as I can see, it's irrelevant.

So Catholics aren't Christians? Catholicism isn't a religion?

Did I say that?

I said Catholicism is irrelevant to the conversation. We are discussing an evangelical not a Catholic. Why should we discuss Catholicism in relation to him when he isn't Catholic?

 

[Avatar4321]

So, Christian experts, is molesting a child a mortal or venial sin?

Jesus never taught anything about a mortal or venial sin. He said if you even lust in your heart after a woman you see, it is the sin of adultery - you've done it. He said if you are even angry in your own house and call someone "fool" (Racca) that you are in danger of hell! Does that sound venial to you? When God said, The pure in heart shall see God - He meant it! No one with a filthy heart will see God. We must be pure in our thoughts and in all our ways before Him.

The teaching of venial and mortal sin is a man made teaching that is found nowhere in the bible. When Adam sinned by one act of disobedience - the consequences were devastating. Sin is sin. If you belong to a church that teaches "mortal and venial sins"? GET OUT OF THERE! They are making an excuse for sinning and you can be sure it is a cult and you'll find every sort of evil going on within!

Where is the command that Christian business owners must not serve gays found in the Bible?

Where does anyone say everything is found in the Bible or needs to be?

Also Christians I've seen don't have a problem serving gays. It's doing work specifically for gay marriage which they oppose that they have problems with.

Why exactly should we impose your morality on them?

 

[Avatar4321]

Since so many threads have been created about this issue, I thought I'd create a new one with a new perspective.

Of the many aspects of this scandal that have been debated, very few have touched on the fact that Josh Duggar knew what he did was wrong, repented of it, and asked forgiveness. He then walked free from his sins. It seems the gospel of Christ has been presented so often that we become jaded to it, but this serves as an opportunity to emphasize that what Josh Duggar did is available to anyone.....just for the asking.

Why is this in the politics section and not the religion section? Because those who with the greatest passion heap scorn and ridicule on Josh Duggar need to hear this message, that the Bible tells us clearly that all have sinned, every person incurring a dept that he or she cannot possibly repay. While we pat ourselves on the back because "at least" we didn't molest several underage girls when we were teenagers, it can easily be lost on us the sobering reality that EVERY SIN IS EQUAL IN ITS CAPACITY TO SEPARATE US ETERNALLY FROM THE LOVE OF GOD.

And though it might not seem fair for somebody else to pay in our stead the debt we amassed and by all rights should be made to pay for by ourselves, Jesus Christ offered up his life in atonement for the sins of humanity.

Yes, amazingly, HE LOVED US THAT MUCH!

Josh Duggar has experienced this incredible and free gift. So have I. And it's something that cannot be bought, earned, or worked for, it can only be received by asking. And those on this board so quick to condemn ought to consider that they themselves are guilty of sin, but also that they themselves can receive complete absolution for all their sins, just as so many have, by opening their heart to the mercy of God in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Just imagine how incredible it feels to have every terrible thing you ever did completely wiped clean, so that with unsullied hearts and minds, we can freely and without shame approach the glorious throne of God and look forward to the day we spend eternity with the joy of his friendship. Although I'm very rancorous on this forum in political debates, this is a time for me to be sincere and urge you with all my heart to give your lives to Christ and become a New Creation.

It's yours for the asking.

So, if I track someone down I don't like very much from online, say a website...And kill him, as long as I ask forgiveness I can go about my merry way?

Cooool.

No. It would not be cool. You would be committing a terrible sin of the worst sort because there would be no way to take it back or make it right. But yes, if you hate what you did, care about your victim, feel true remorse, you will change and become a different person than what you were--a person different from the vindictive sociopath that could kill somebody just because you didn't like him. And you can be forgiven for your sin.

You will no doubt have to suffer the legal consequences for your action, but you will be living a different life even if you are in prison. Perhaps you will make what amends you can by working with others to help them learn how to deal with anger without resorting to violence. The repentent and forgiven sinners are often the most effective people in helping others overcome their own demons and become changed people.

Once you have repented--meaning you have become a changed person--what benefit to you or me or anybody is there for me to judge or hate you? That can only be destructive to us both.

No one is obligated to accept Christianity's repentance strategy. Why are you trying to impose your religion on others?

You don't understand Christian repentance. If you did you would realize it is the only strategy there is to overcome sin.

I understand that there are virtually no posts on USMB by conservatives proclaiming their forgiveness of Dem/lib sex offenders.

Probably because they are instead pointing out the double standard you have of excusing everyone you agree with politically.

Which isn't a matter of not forgiving the perpetrator and more about holding similar standards from all.

I'm for forgiveness of all people regardless of politics. That doesn't necessarily mean I want them to rule over me. Regardless of political persuasion.

Take mark foley. I was all for him resigning and being held accountable for his actions. I actively opposed those who wanted to lie about him being a pedophile for his actions. And I'm more than willing to forgive him for his actions, but that doesn't mean we should have him leading us.

The same for Clinton. I've forgiven him and his wife for what they've done along ago. That doesn't mean I want them leading us.

Why should I put them in a position where they might fall into their old corrupt patterns?

 

[Avatar4321]

No point talking with people who lie and are hypocrites.

The invitation is always open for you. You are still loved.

Hypocrites?

Let's look at what Avatar considers unforgiveable.

Fox s Van Susteren delaying Benghazi report till 2016 will HURT the GOP US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

lol

Who says that's unforgivable?

Really if you want to seriously debate me you need to stop lying.

That was misattributed to you. Wrong poster. I sincerely apologize.

(now I get to get forgiven!)

You are completely forgiven for that.

 

[Avatar4321]

Btw I've defended people far worse than Josh Duggar. One of the realities of being a defense attorney.

You guys think I should.be ashamed of that. I don't. Christ defends all sinners. We should take a page from his book and seek to heal both victims and sinners. Because sooner or later we will be the sinners. And because quite frankly this world needs the light and healing of the atonement.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

EVERY SIN IS EQUAL IN ITS CAPACITY TO SEPARATE US ETERNALLY FROM THE LOVE OF GOD.

Right. So molesting your little sister is the same as stealing a piece of her Halloween candy.

Got it.

 

[Valerie]

For the past few years, Josh Duggar, eldest son of the 19 in the Duggar clan, has been the face of the Family Research Council (FRC) at rallies against LGBT equality across the country. As executive director of FRC Action, the organization’s political arm, he helped fundraise for the organization, hobnob with Republican presidential contenders, and promote its anti-LGBT talking points, including claiming that his lesbian aunt “chooses” her “lifestyle” and that LGBT people are a threat to children.


The Family Research Council s Strange Statement On Josh Duggar s Child Molestation Confession ThinkProgress

That is the very definition of hypocrisy. You don't have to look into someone's heart when they speak very clearly as to whom they are.

INDEED


Jesus weeps for ALL of Duggar's victims, not just the ones he sexually molested...

And yet you want to hold him, a private citizen, responsible for this while excusing political leaders you like for far worse. Why? Because you hate his politics.

Duggar brought himself into the political spotlight, so he is no longer 'private'...

notice how you have to deflect and resort to making things up right there ^ ?

there's a word for that, but i really don't enjoy calling you a liar cuz i think you're basically a nice guy who is missing the point.



yes i want to hold him responsible and highlight his hypocrisy because self righteous people like him (and you) would rather deflect and make things up and yammer on about him being worthy of "forgiveness"... while ignoring his unforgiving agenda to marginalize "sinners" as second class citizens!



put your good book down and THINK about the validity of those rebuking his hateful and hypocritical agenda.


just try.

 

[Avatar4321]

EVERY SIN IS EQUAL IN ITS CAPACITY TO SEPARATE US ETERNALLY FROM THE LOVE OF GOD.

Right. So molesting your little sister is the same as stealing a piece of her Halloween candy.

Got it.

In the fact that they both separate you from God yes.

In the damage they cause, not in a long shot.

 

[Avatar4321]

Point is we should.be encouraging healing of both parties involve

 

[NYcarbineer]

So, Christian experts, is molesting a child a mortal or venial sin?

Jesus never taught anything about a mortal or venial sin. He said if you even lust in your heart after a woman you see, it is the sin of adultery - you've done it. He said if you are even angry in your own house and call someone "fool" (Racca) that you are in danger of hell! Does that sound venial to you? When God said, The pure in heart shall see God - He meant it! No one with a filthy heart will see God. We must be pure in our thoughts and in all our ways before Him.

The teaching of venial and mortal sin is a man made teaching that is found nowhere in the bible. When Adam sinned by one act of disobedience - the consequences were devastating. Sin is sin. If you belong to a church that teaches "mortal and venial sins"? GET OUT OF THERE! They are making an excuse for sinning and you can be sure it is a cult and you'll find every sort of evil going on within!

Where is the command that Christian business owners must not serve gays found in the Bible?

Where does anyone say everything is found in the Bible or needs to be?

Also Christians I've seen don't have a problem serving gays. It's doing work specifically for gay marriage which they oppose that they have problems with.

Why exactly should we impose your morality on them?

So you take the position that someone can believe anything they want, claim it's their religion, and thus claim a 1st amendment free pass from the US law of the land?

 

[Avatar4321]

For the past few years, Josh Duggar, eldest son of the 19 in the Duggar clan, has been the face of the Family Research Council (FRC) at rallies against LGBT equality across the country. As executive director of FRC Action, the organization’s political arm, he helped fundraise for the organization, hobnob with Republican presidential contenders, and promote its anti-LGBT talking points, including claiming that his lesbian aunt “chooses” her “lifestyle” and that LGBT people are a threat to children.


The Family Research Council s Strange Statement On Josh Duggar s Child Molestation Confession ThinkProgress

That is the very definition of hypocrisy. You don't have to look into someone's heart when they speak very clearly as to whom they are.

INDEED


Jesus weeps for ALL of Duggar's victims, not just the ones he sexually molested...

And yet you want to hold him, a private citizen, responsible for this while excusing political leaders you like for far worse. Why? Because you hate his politics.

Duggar brought himself into the political spotlight, so he is no longer 'private'...

notice how you have to deflect and resort to making things up right there ^ ?

there's a word for that, but i really don't enjoy calling you a liar cuz i think you're basically a nice guy who is missing the point.



yes i want to hold him responsible and highlight his hypocrisy because self righteous people like him (and you) would rather deflect and make things up and yammer on about him being worthy of "forgiveness"... while ignoring his unforgiving agenda to marginalize "sinners" as second class citizens!



put your good book down and THINK about the validity of those rebuking his hateful and hypocritical agenda.


just try.

There is nothing hateful in denouncing sin. Quite the opposite.

There is nothing hypocritical about it.

Is a former crack addict a hypocrite if after he gets clean he campaigns against heroin use as well as other drugs?

Is a former alcoholic a hypocrite if after he turns his life around he campaigns against underage drinking?

How then is someone who repented of one sexual sin a hypocrite for campaigning against others?

The argument makes little sense whatsoever.

Advocating against sin doesnt create victims. Just another lie.

 

[Avatar4321]

So, Christian experts, is molesting a child a mortal or venial sin?

Jesus never taught anything about a mortal or venial sin. He said if you even lust in your heart after a woman you see, it is the sin of adultery - you've done it. He said if you are even angry in your own house and call someone "fool" (Racca) that you are in danger of hell! Does that sound venial to you? When God said, The pure in heart shall see God - He meant it! No one with a filthy heart will see God. We must be pure in our thoughts and in all our ways before Him.

The teaching of venial and mortal sin is a man made teaching that is found nowhere in the bible. When Adam sinned by one act of disobedience - the consequences were devastating. Sin is sin. If you belong to a church that teaches "mortal and venial sins"? GET OUT OF THERE! They are making an excuse for sinning and you can be sure it is a cult and you'll find every sort of evil going on within!

Where is the command that Christian business owners must not serve gays found in the Bible?

Where does anyone say everything is found in the Bible or needs to be?

Also Christians I've seen don't have a problem serving gays. It's doing work specifically for gay marriage which they oppose that they have problems with.

Why exactly should we impose your morality on them?

So you take the position that someone can believe anything they want, claim it's their religion, and thus claim a 1st amendment free pass from the US law of the land?

I'm arguing that the first amendment prevents the government from creating such unjust laws to begin with.

Unconstitutional laws don't become legal simply because you like the result

 

[NYcarbineer]

No point talking with people who lie and are hypocrites.

The invitation is always open for you. You are still loved.

Hypocrites?

Let's look at what Avatar considers unforgiveable.

Fox s Van Susteren delaying Benghazi report till 2016 will HURT the GOP US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

lol

Who says that's unforgivable?

Really if you want to seriously debate me you need to stop lying.

That was misattributed to you. Wrong poster. I sincerely apologize.

(now I get to get forgiven!)

You are completely forgiven for that.

Without even having to do penance? You know, like Robert DeNiro in 'the Mission'?

 

[NYcarbineer]

So, Christian experts, is molesting a child a mortal or venial sin?

Jesus never taught anything about a mortal or venial sin. He said if you even lust in your heart after a woman you see, it is the sin of adultery - you've done it. He said if you are even angry in your own house and call someone "fool" (Racca) that you are in danger of hell! Does that sound venial to you? When God said, The pure in heart shall see God - He meant it! No one with a filthy heart will see God. We must be pure in our thoughts and in all our ways before Him.

The teaching of venial and mortal sin is a man made teaching that is found nowhere in the bible. When Adam sinned by one act of disobedience - the consequences were devastating. Sin is sin. If you belong to a church that teaches "mortal and venial sins"? GET OUT OF THERE! They are making an excuse for sinning and you can be sure it is a cult and you'll find every sort of evil going on within!

Where is the command that Christian business owners must not serve gays found in the Bible?

Where does anyone say everything is found in the Bible or needs to be?

Also Christians I've seen don't have a problem serving gays. It's doing work specifically for gay marriage which they oppose that they have problems with.

Why exactly should we impose your morality on them?

So you take the position that someone can believe anything they want, claim it's their religion, and thus claim a 1st amendment free pass from the US law of the land?

I'm arguing that the first amendment prevents the government from creating such unjust laws to begin with.

Unconstitutional laws don't become legal simply because you like the result

Laws are constitutional until struck down by the court.

The Court did not strike down laws against polygamy. A religious practice. Why do you suppose that was?