Josh Duggar And The Message Of Forgiveness

[Avatar4321]

I agree. mortal and denial sins are a Catholic th. As no one is Catholic in this discussion as I can see, it's irrelevant.

 

[Valerie]

Josh Duggar changed. He made mistakes. He sought help. He submitted to the authorities. He paid to heal those he hurt. Why then should we treat him harshly? Especially when his victims don't.

Read this earlier and the more I reflected on it the more it disturbed me.

Why? Because it demonstrates that you and Carla aren't at all concerned about the victims. You don't even care about the accusations.

You just want him silenced because of politics.

first of all, you seem smart enough to tell the difference between my posts and others' posts, so it is pretty obvious why you choose to lump posters together in order to convince yourself of SOMETHING..

your purpose to demonize those who disagree..?

"you aren't at all concerned about the victims. You don't even care " <---- bullshit




the reason you respond in that manner is disappointing, however unsurprising from a blind partisan..


still waiting for an answer to MY points, which despite your bullshit mischaracterization, is my entire point, as well as the truth of why it 'disturbed you' so...


i am asking you to search your Christian heart for an honest answer to MY posts.

what about the victims of his political agenda who recognize the hypocrisy of his grandstanding which treats them harshly??

"you aren't at all concerned about the victims. You don't even care " ???????? ^

He also frown on being unforgiving.

In fact He clearly taught that not having forgiveness was one of the worst things you can do.

duggar is the "unforgiving" one who has been actively pontificating his political agenda which you'd rather ignore.


not ignoring his harmful hypocritical agenda is not being ''unforgiving'', it is recognizing reality.

how disturbing that self righteous Christian posters in this thread would rather demonize their fellow posters while coddling child molesters who thump the bible pontificating for their unforgiving political agenda to marginalize 'sinners'.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Since so many threads have been created about this issue, I thought I'd create a new one with a new perspective.

Of the many aspects of this scandal that have been debated, very few have touched on the fact that Josh Duggar knew what he did was wrong, repented of it, and asked forgiveness. He then walked free from his sins. It seems the gospel of Christ has been presented so often that we become jaded to it, but this serves as an opportunity to emphasize that what Josh Duggar did is available to anyone.....just for the asking.

Why is this in the politics section and not the religion section? Because those who with the greatest passion heap scorn and ridicule on Josh Duggar need to hear this message, that the Bible tells us clearly that all have sinned, every person incurring a dept that he or she cannot possibly repay. While we pat ourselves on the back because "at least" we didn't molest several underage girls when we were teenagers, it can easily be lost on us the sobering reality that EVERY SIN IS EQUAL IN ITS CAPACITY TO SEPARATE US ETERNALLY FROM THE LOVE OF GOD.

And though it might not seem fair for somebody else to pay in our stead the debt we amassed and by all rights should be made to pay for by ourselves, Jesus Christ offered up his life in atonement for the sins of humanity.

Yes, amazingly, HE LOVED US THAT MUCH!

Josh Duggar has experienced this incredible and free gift. So have I. And it's something that cannot be bought, earned, or worked for, it can only be received by asking. And those on this board so quick to condemn ought to consider that they themselves are guilty of sin, but also that they themselves can receive complete absolution for all their sins, just as so many have, by opening their heart to the mercy of God in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Just imagine how incredible it feels to have every terrible thing you ever did completely wiped clean, so that with unsullied hearts and minds, we can freely and without shame approach the glorious throne of God and look forward to the day we spend eternity with the joy of his friendship. Although I'm very rancorous on this forum in political debates, this is a time for me to be sincere and urge you with all my heart to give your lives to Christ and become a New Creation.

It's yours for the asking.

So, if I track someone down I don't like very much from online, say a website...And kill him, as long as I ask forgiveness I can go about my merry way?

Cooool.

No. It would not be cool. You would be committing a terrible sin of the worst sort because there would be no way to take it back or make it right. But yes, if you hate what you did, care about your victim, feel true remorse, you will change and become a different person than what you were--a person different from the vindictive sociopath that could kill somebody just because you didn't like him. And you can be forgiven for your sin.

You will no doubt have to suffer the legal consequences for your action, but you will be living a different life even if you are in prison. Perhaps you will make what amends you can by working with others to help them learn how to deal with anger without resorting to violence. The repentent and forgiven sinners are often the most effective people in helping others overcome their own demons and become changed people.

Once you have repented--meaning you have become a changed person--what benefit to you or me or anybody is there for me to judge or hate you? That can only be destructive to us both.

No one is obligated to accept Christianity's repentance strategy. Why are you trying to impose your religion on others?

You don't understand Christian repentance. If you did you would realize it is the only strategy there is to overcome sin.

No. You're wrong. It is not the strategy to overcome sin. The only strategy to overcome sin is to surrender our hearts, our minds, our will to the Lord Jesus Christ and continue to live our life in Him and to follow Him every single day. That is the narrow path Jesus spoke of. There is no other way to overcome and unless we overcome? We will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus Christ never told any man to follow a religion or any religious leader of a church! He said, we must follow Him and His Word as it is written in the Bible. (not the Book of Mormon, not the Qu'ran, not any other Book!) Those who are followers of Christ are the Church! It's not a building, it's not an organization - it is the body of Jesus Christ! Whenever, wherever the Christians come together and praise Jesus? That's church.

 

[Avatar4321]

Josh Duggar changed. He made mistakes. He sought help. He submitted to the authorities. He paid to heal those he hurt. Why then should we treat him harshly? Especially when his victims don't.

Read this earlier and the more I reflected on it the more it disturbed me.

Why? Because it demonstrates that you and Carla aren't at all concerned about the victims. You don't even care about the accusations.

You just want him silenced because of politics.

first of all, you seem smart enough to tell the difference between my posts and others' posts, so it is pretty obvious why you choose to lump posters together in order to convince yourself of SOMETHING..

your purpose to demonize those who disagree..?

"you aren't at all concerned about the victims. You don't even care " <---- bullshit




the reason you respond in that manner is disappointing, however unsurprising from a blind partisan..


still waiting for an answer to MY points, which despite your bullshit mischaracterization, is my entire point, as well as the truth of why it 'disturbed you' so...


i am asking you to search your Christian heart for an honest answer to MY posts.

what about the victims of his political agenda who recognize the hypocrisy of his grandstanding which treats them harshly??

"you aren't at all concerned about the victims. You don't even care " ????????

He also frown on being unforgiving.

In fact He clearly taught that not having forgiveness was one of the worst things you can do.

duggar is the "unforgiving" one who has been actively pontificating his political agenda which you'd rather ignore.


not ignoring his harmful hypocritical agenda is not being ''unforgiving'', it is recognizing reality.

how disturbing that self righteous Christian posters in this thread would rather demonize their fellow posters while coddling child molesters who thump the bible pontificating for their unforgiving political agenda to marginalize 'sinners'.

You don't even deny it. Sad.

Do you know what self righteous means? Looking at the context, you don't.

No one is trying to marginalize sinners, except ironically you

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

I agree. mortal and denial sins are a Catholic th. As no one is Catholic in this discussion as I can see, it's irrelevant.

I was responding to someone else who mentioned it but you're probably right. Michael (OP) used to be Catholic but he said in his post he is now believing on Jesus Christ for his salvation and knows his sins were washed away (not exact words but it sounded like he got saved) so he must have left Catholicism. I'm happy for him and hope many more will receive Christ and get out of the old religious systems and religions where there is no life. They are broken cisterns and it is only in Jesus Christ that we can receive the rivers of living waters which will sustain us.

 

[Avatar4321]

Since so many threads have been created about this issue, I thought I'd create a new one with a new perspective.

Of the many aspects of this scandal that have been debated, very few have touched on the fact that Josh Duggar knew what he did was wrong, repented of it, and asked forgiveness. He then walked free from his sins. It seems the gospel of Christ has been presented so often that we become jaded to it, but this serves as an opportunity to emphasize that what Josh Duggar did is available to anyone.....just for the asking.

Why is this in the politics section and not the religion section? Because those who with the greatest passion heap scorn and ridicule on Josh Duggar need to hear this message, that the Bible tells us clearly that all have sinned, every person incurring a dept that he or she cannot possibly repay. While we pat ourselves on the back because "at least" we didn't molest several underage girls when we were teenagers, it can easily be lost on us the sobering reality that EVERY SIN IS EQUAL IN ITS CAPACITY TO SEPARATE US ETERNALLY FROM THE LOVE OF GOD.

And though it might not seem fair for somebody else to pay in our stead the debt we amassed and by all rights should be made to pay for by ourselves, Jesus Christ offered up his life in atonement for the sins of humanity.

Yes, amazingly, HE LOVED US THAT MUCH!

Josh Duggar has experienced this incredible and free gift. So have I. And it's something that cannot be bought, earned, or worked for, it can only be received by asking. And those on this board so quick to condemn ought to consider that they themselves are guilty of sin, but also that they themselves can receive complete absolution for all their sins, just as so many have, by opening their heart to the mercy of God in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Just imagine how incredible it feels to have every terrible thing you ever did completely wiped clean, so that with unsullied hearts and minds, we can freely and without shame approach the glorious throne of God and look forward to the day we spend eternity with the joy of his friendship. Although I'm very rancorous on this forum in political debates, this is a time for me to be sincere and urge you with all my heart to give your lives to Christ and become a New Creation.

It's yours for the asking.

So, if I track someone down I don't like very much from online, say a website...And kill him, as long as I ask forgiveness I can go about my merry way?

Cooool.

No. It would not be cool. You would be committing a terrible sin of the worst sort because there would be no way to take it back or make it right. But yes, if you hate what you did, care about your victim, feel true remorse, you will change and become a different person than what you were--a person different from the vindictive sociopath that could kill somebody just because you didn't like him. And you can be forgiven for your sin.

You will no doubt have to suffer the legal consequences for your action, but you will be living a different life even if you are in prison. Perhaps you will make what amends you can by working with others to help them learn how to deal with anger without resorting to violence. The repentent and forgiven sinners are often the most effective people in helping others overcome their own demons and become changed people.

Once you have repented--meaning you have become a changed person--what benefit to you or me or anybody is there for me to judge or hate you? That can only be destructive to us both.

No one is obligated to accept Christianity's repentance strategy. Why are you trying to impose your religion on others?

You don't understand Christian repentance. If you did you would realize it is the only strategy there is to overcome sin.

No. You're wrong. It is not the strategy to overcome sin. The only strategy to overcome sin is to surrender our hearts, our minds, our will to the Lord Jesus Christ and continue to live our life in Him and to follow Him every single day. That is the narrow path Jesus spoke of. There is no other way to overcome and unless we overcome? We will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus Christ never told any man to follow a religion or any religious leader of a church! He said, we must follow Him and His Word as it is written in the Bible. (not the Book of Mormon, not the Qu'ran, not any other Book!) Those who are followers of Christ are the Church! It's not a building, it's not an organization - it is the body of Jesus Christ! Whenever, wherever the Christians come together and praise Jesus? That's church.

You act as if I said something different. Repentance comes through Christ and the terms He provided.

You are wrong about the church not being organized though. We could save that for another discussion though.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Avatar, you do not know Luddly's heart. I see no sign of hypocrisy in stating that children should be protected and the record of such crimes should be permanent. I believe that the statement was made with a sincere heart on the matter. Which tells me Luddly does care. Very much.

 

[Valerie]

You don't even deny it. Sad.

Do you know what self righteous means? Looking at the context, you don't.

No one is trying to marginalize sinners, except ironically you

no, duggar's political agenda is what brings his molestation into the spot light.

i twice called your claim that i supposedly don't care about the victims "bullshit"

now you claim i "don't even deny it" - so once again, you're all bullshit. (yes, that means i deny what you claim)

you and foxfyre talk a good Christian game but Jesus Christ told me he thinks you both miss the point because you're blinded with self righteousness indignation for your partisan agenda. you'd rather demonize your fellow posters..which is also an attempt to marginalize those who don't see things the same, as if you are somehow a better person... as a Christian, i am truly embarrassed for you and for Christianity.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Josh Duggar changed. He made mistakes. He sought help. He submitted to the authorities. He paid to heal those he hurt. Why then should we treat him harshly? Especially when his victims don't.

what about the victims of his political agenda who recognize the hypocrisy of his grandstanding which treats them harshly??

Read this earlier and the more I reflected on it the more it disturbed me.

Why? Because it demonstrates that you and Carla aren't at all concerned about the victims. You don't even care about the accusations.

You just want him silenced because of politics.

If that's true, I'm sure you can post examples of liberals/Dems wanting to give a pass to liberal/Dem child molesters.

Right?

Keeping children safe from sexual predators is not and should not be a partisan issue. What is truly disturbing is that you phony christian RWs consistently side against children.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

So, if I track someone down I don't like very much from online, say a website...And kill him, as long as I ask forgiveness I can go about my merry way?

Cooool.

No. It would not be cool. You would be committing a terrible sin of the worst sort because there would be no way to take it back or make it right. But yes, if you hate what you did, care about your victim, feel true remorse, you will change and become a different person than what you were--a person different from the vindictive sociopath that could kill somebody just because you didn't like him. And you can be forgiven for your sin.

You will no doubt have to suffer the legal consequences for your action, but you will be living a different life even if you are in prison. Perhaps you will make what amends you can by working with others to help them learn how to deal with anger without resorting to violence. The repentent and forgiven sinners are often the most effective people in helping others overcome their own demons and become changed people.

Once you have repented--meaning you have become a changed person--what benefit to you or me or anybody is there for me to judge or hate you? That can only be destructive to us both.

No one is obligated to accept Christianity's repentance strategy. Why are you trying to impose your religion on others?

You don't understand Christian repentance. If you did you would realize it is the only strategy there is to overcome sin.

No. You're wrong. It is not the strategy to overcome sin. The only strategy to overcome sin is to surrender our hearts, our minds, our will to the Lord Jesus Christ and continue to live our life in Him and to follow Him every single day. That is the narrow path Jesus spoke of. There is no other way to overcome and unless we overcome? We will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus Christ never told any man to follow a religion or any religious leader of a church! He said, we must follow Him and His Word as it is written in the Bible. (not the Book of Mormon, not the Qu'ran, not any other Book!) Those who are followers of Christ are the Church! It's not a building, it's not an organization - it is the body of Jesus Christ! Whenever, wherever the Christians come together and praise Jesus? That's church.

You act as if I said something different. Repentance comes through Christ and the terms He provided.

You are wrong about the church not being organized though. We could save that for another discussion though.

It is through Jesus Christ of the King James Bible and there are no terms. Jesus forgives freely. You are in the Mormon church which teaches another Christ whose brother was Lucifer and Jesus having wives. That is not the Jesus Christ of the Holy Bible. It has nothing to do with Jesus Christ of Nazareth whom I serve, Avatar.

There is nothing to discuss about an organized church. Men can organize what they will but God does not approve of religion. He approves of His Son and those who follow Him with all their hearts having received Him according to Romans 10:9,10. The Body of Christ is what makes up the church. Not a denomination, religion or cult.

 

[Valerie]

i am asking you to search your Christian heart for an honest answer to MY posts.

what about the victims of his political agenda who recognize the hypocrisy of his grandstanding which treats them harshly??

He also frown on being unforgiving.

In fact He clearly taught that not having forgiveness was one of the worst things you can do.

duggar is the "unforgiving" one who has been actively pontificating his political agenda which you'd rather ignore.


not ignoring his harmful hypocritical agenda is not being ''unforgiving'', it is recognizing reality.

 

[Avatar4321]

You don't even deny it. Sad.

Do you know what self righteous means? Looking at the context, you don't.

No one is trying to marginalize sinners, except ironically you

no, duggar's political agenda is what brings his molestation into the spot light.

i twice called your claim that i supposedly don't care about the victims "bullshit"

now you claim i "don't even deny it" - so once again, you're all bullshit. (yes, that means i deny what you claim)

you and foxfyre talk a good Christian game but Jesus Christ told me he thinks you both miss the point because you're blinded with self righteousness indignation. you'd rather demonize your fellow posters..which is also an attempt to marginalize those who don't see things the same, as if you are somehow a better person... as a Christian, i am truly embarrassed for you and for Christianity.

The fact that he freely confessed it and never hid it is what brought his sins to the public eye. his politics have nothing to do with it.

The fact that you are unforgiving toward him because of his politics demonstrates you don't care about victims. If you cared about his victims you'd pay attention to the fact that they have forgiven him.

You have not been demonized. Nor anyone else. Telling the truth is not demonizing no matter how unpleasant you find the truth to be.

 

[Foxfyre]

Since so many threads have been created about this issue, I thought I'd create a new one with a new perspective.

Of the many aspects of this scandal that have been debated, very few have touched on the fact that Josh Duggar knew what he did was wrong, repented of it, and asked forgiveness. He then walked free from his sins. It seems the gospel of Christ has been presented so often that we become jaded to it, but this serves as an opportunity to emphasize that what Josh Duggar did is available to anyone.....just for the asking.

Why is this in the politics section and not the religion section? Because those who with the greatest passion heap scorn and ridicule on Josh Duggar need to hear this message, that the Bible tells us clearly that all have sinned, every person incurring a dept that he or she cannot possibly repay. While we pat ourselves on the back because "at least" we didn't molest several underage girls when we were teenagers, it can easily be lost on us the sobering reality that EVERY SIN IS EQUAL IN ITS CAPACITY TO SEPARATE US ETERNALLY FROM THE LOVE OF GOD.

And though it might not seem fair for somebody else to pay in our stead the debt we amassed and by all rights should be made to pay for by ourselves, Jesus Christ offered up his life in atonement for the sins of humanity.

Yes, amazingly, HE LOVED US THAT MUCH!

Josh Duggar has experienced this incredible and free gift. So have I. And it's something that cannot be bought, earned, or worked for, it can only be received by asking. And those on this board so quick to condemn ought to consider that they themselves are guilty of sin, but also that they themselves can receive complete absolution for all their sins, just as so many have, by opening their heart to the mercy of God in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Just imagine how incredible it feels to have every terrible thing you ever did completely wiped clean, so that with unsullied hearts and minds, we can freely and without shame approach the glorious throne of God and look forward to the day we spend eternity with the joy of his friendship. Although I'm very rancorous on this forum in political debates, this is a time for me to be sincere and urge you with all my heart to give your lives to Christ and become a New Creation.

It's yours for the asking.

So, if I track someone down I don't like very much from online, say a website...And kill him, as long as I ask forgiveness I can go about my merry way?

Cooool.

No. It would not be cool. You would be committing a terrible sin of the worst sort because there would be no way to take it back or make it right. But yes, if you hate what you did, care about your victim, feel true remorse, you will change and become a different person than what you were--a person different from the vindictive sociopath that could kill somebody just because you didn't like him. And you can be forgiven for your sin.

You will no doubt have to suffer the legal consequences for your action, but you will be living a different life even if you are in prison. Perhaps you will make what amends you can by working with others to help them learn how to deal with anger without resorting to violence. The repentent and forgiven sinners are often the most effective people in helping others overcome their own demons and become changed people.

Once you have repented--meaning you have become a changed person--what benefit to you or me or anybody is there for me to judge or hate you? That can only be destructive to us both.

No one is obligated to accept Christianity's repentance strategy. Why are you trying to impose your religion on others?

You don't understand Christian repentance. If you did you would realize it is the only strategy there is to overcome sin.

No. You're wrong. It is not the strategy to overcome sin. The only strategy to overcome sin is to surrender our hearts, our minds, our will to the Lord Jesus Christ and continue to live our life in Him and to follow Him every single day. That is the narrow path Jesus spoke of. There is no other way to overcome and unless we overcome? We will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus Christ never told any man to follow a religion or any religious leader of a church! He said, we must follow Him and His Word as it is written in the Bible. (not the Book of Mormon, not the Qu'ran, not any other Book!) Those who are followers of Christ are the Church! It's not a building, it's not an organization - it is the body of Jesus Christ! Whenever, wherever the Christians come together and praise Jesus? That's church.

I think you are both arguing on the same side of the fence but just stating it in different ways.

Peter in Acts 2:38: "Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”

And In Acts 3 he again admonished us to repent:
"18"But the things which God announced beforehand by the mouth of all the prophets, that His Christ would suffer, He has thus fulfilled. 19"Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord; 20and that He may send Jesus, the Christ appointed for you,…"

I think the lesson here is that repentence is one of those paths we take to surrender our hearts and let God take over.

And as is the case with all of God's law, we do not receive his grace via following the law, but the law can lead us to God. And I believe the law is beneficial even for those who do not know they are following God's law. I don't think God would give us laws to follow that had no practical purpose. And the law to repent definitely has a practical purpose both in allowing us to receive God's grace and help us to better live our lives in a way pleasing to God.

 

[Valerie]

The fact that he freely confessed it and never hid it is what brought his sins to the public eye. his politics have nothing to do with it.

The fact that you are unforgiving toward him because of his politics demonstrates you don't care about victims. If you cared about his victims you'd pay attention to the fact that they have forgiven him.

You have not been demonized. Nor anyone else. Telling the truth is not demonizing no matter how unpleasant you find the truth to be.

wrong, his politics have everything to do with why he is being soundly rebuked...

you lie when you call it a FACT what i supposedly don't 'forgive'. Jesus frowns when you lie to yourself like that.


and when you claim people don't care about victims to make a point you are demonizing ^



fact is, personal forgiveness is beside the point that i am making...

how forgiving will the laws be toward marginalized citizens if extreme bible thumpers had their political way..?









Foxfyre

demanding that one person bear the most severe penalty of law but give those we like pretty much a pass, it all becomes quite murky and the lines of justice become very blurred.

I think each of us has to search our own heart for what is appropriate in any given case.

[QUOTE="Valerie, post: 11606367, member: 11971" --->



none of our opinions have the power of any law to 'give passes' or 'severe' punishment..in our heart?


what does it mean to DEMAND when you are merely giving your opinion, you can't demand others agree with you..?


laws exist which seek to protect children like those sisters from any harm as clinically defined within the law.

their personal forgiveness is typical and does not preclude the law yet the law has not demanded penalty.


the reason duggar is being highlighted lately is because the creep did what he did and still has the nerve to politically pontificate over what is supposedly harmful to children...

maybe you could search your heart for understanding why others soundly rebuke his agenda.

 

[Avatar4321]

No. It would not be cool. You would be committing a terrible sin of the worst sort because there would be no way to take it back or make it right. But yes, if you hate what you did, care about your victim, feel true remorse, you will change and become a different person than what you were--a person different from the vindictive sociopath that could kill somebody just because you didn't like him. And you can be forgiven for your sin.

You will no doubt have to suffer the legal consequences for your action, but you will be living a different life even if you are in prison. Perhaps you will make what amends you can by working with others to help them learn how to deal with anger without resorting to violence. The repentent and forgiven sinners are often the most effective people in helping others overcome their own demons and become changed people.

Once you have repented--meaning you have become a changed person--what benefit to you or me or anybody is there for me to judge or hate you? That can only be destructive to us both.

No one is obligated to accept Christianity's repentance strategy. Why are you trying to impose your religion on others?

You don't understand Christian repentance. If you did you would realize it is the only strategy there is to overcome sin.

No. You're wrong. It is not the strategy to overcome sin. The only strategy to overcome sin is to surrender our hearts, our minds, our will to the Lord Jesus Christ and continue to live our life in Him and to follow Him every single day. That is the narrow path Jesus spoke of. There is no other way to overcome and unless we overcome? We will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus Christ never told any man to follow a religion or any religious leader of a church! He said, we must follow Him and His Word as it is written in the Bible. (not the Book of Mormon, not the Qu'ran, not any other Book!) Those who are followers of Christ are the Church! It's not a building, it's not an organization - it is the body of Jesus Christ! Whenever, wherever the Christians come together and praise Jesus? That's church.

You act as if I said something different. Repentance comes through Christ and the terms He provided.

You are wrong about the church not being organized though. We could save that for another discussion though.

It is through Jesus Christ of the King James Bible and there are no terms. Jesus forgives freely. You are in the Mormon church which teaches another Christ whose brother was Lucifer and Jesus having wives. That is not the Jesus Christ of the Holy Bible. It has nothing to do with Jesus Christ of Nazareth whom I serve, Avatar.

There is nothing to discuss about an organized church. Men can organize what they will but God does not approve of religion. He approves of His Son and those who follow Him with all their hearts having received Him according to Romans 10:9,10. The Body of Christ is what makes up the church. Not a denomination, religion or cult.

You need to read your bible more. The body of Christ is clearly organized and visible. And Christ spelled out how to come to Him repent throughout the scriptures.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Josh Duggar changed. He made mistakes. He sought help. He submitted to the authorities. He paid to heal those he hurt. Why then should we treat him harshly? Especially when his victims don't.

what about the victims of his political agenda who recognize the hypocrisy of his grandstanding which treats them harshly??

Read this earlier and the more I reflected on it the more it disturbed me.

Why? Because it demonstrates that you and Carla aren't at all concerned about the victims. You don't even care about the accusations.

You just want him silenced because of politics.

If that's true, I'm sure you can post examples of liberals/Dems wanting to give a pass to liberal/Dem child molesters.

Right?

Keeping children safe from sexual predators is not and should not be a partisan issue. What is truly disturbing is that you phony christian RWs consistently side against children.

So, if I track someone down I don't like very much from online, say a website...And kill him, as long as I ask forgiveness I can go about my merry way?

Cooool.

No. It would not be cool. You would be committing a terrible sin of the worst sort because there would be no way to take it back or make it right. But yes, if you hate what you did, care about your victim, feel true remorse, you will change and become a different person than what you were--a person different from the vindictive sociopath that could kill somebody just because you didn't like him. And you can be forgiven for your sin.

You will no doubt have to suffer the legal consequences for your action, but you will be living a different life even if you are in prison. Perhaps you will make what amends you can by working with others to help them learn how to deal with anger without resorting to violence. The repentent and forgiven sinners are often the most effective people in helping others overcome their own demons and become changed people.

Once you have repented--meaning you have become a changed person--what benefit to you or me or anybody is there for me to judge or hate you? That can only be destructive to us both.

No one is obligated to accept Christianity's repentance strategy. Why are you trying to impose your religion on others?

You don't understand Christian repentance. If you did you would realize it is the only strategy there is to overcome sin.

No. You're wrong. It is not the strategy to overcome sin. The only strategy to overcome sin is to surrender our hearts, our minds, our will to the Lord Jesus Christ and continue to live our life in Him and to follow Him every single day. That is the narrow path Jesus spoke of. There is no other way to overcome and unless we overcome? We will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus Christ never told any man to follow a religion or any religious leader of a church! He said, we must follow Him and His Word as it is written in the Bible. (not the Book of Mormon, not the Qu'ran, not any other Book!) Those who are followers of Christ are the Church! It's not a building, it's not an organization - it is the body of Jesus Christ! Whenever, wherever the Christians come together and praise Jesus? That's church.

I think you are both arguing on the same side of the fence but just stating it in different ways.

Peter in Acts 2:38: "Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”

And In Acts 3 he again admonished us to repent:
"18"But the things which God announced beforehand by the mouth of all the prophets, that His Christ would suffer, He has thus fulfilled. 19"Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord; 20and that He may send Jesus, the Christ appointed for you,…"

I think the lesson here is that repentence is one of those paths we take to surrender our hearts and let God take over.

And as is the case with all of God's law, we do not receive his grace via following the law, but the law can lead us to God. And I believe the law is beneficial even for those who do not know they are following God's law. I don't think God would give us laws to follow that had no practical purpose. And the law to repent definitely has a practical purpose both in allowing us to receive God's grace and help us to better live our lives in a way pleasing to God.

I've seen people saved while involved in religions that were false but the common denominator was they all left! They didn't stay there, Foxfyre. Now with the matter of forgiveness - let me reiterate this point - God will forgive the most vile sinner who comes to His Son and receives eternal life - it is a gift - it cannot be earned. Salvation is a free gift and it is offered to whosoever will come to Jesus Christ. We may never know who is reading and they need to understand that Satan is going to try his best to convince them that they are "salvation proofed" that because of what they have done, because they have sold their soul to him, there is now no more chance for them to be forgiven. This is a lie and a deception of Satan and they have the right to know that no matter what they have done - the LORD is waiting with open arms to receive them and forgive them if they are willing to accept him as their Lord and as their Savior. When we receive Jesus as our LORD we must live with Him as our LORD and not return to the old ways of doing thing. All things become new and it is now He who lives in us! He has the reigns! He must be Lord in all we think, all we say and all we do. He must be Lord over all or we cannot say He is our Lord.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

No one is obligated to accept Christianity's repentance strategy. Why are you trying to impose your religion on others?

You don't understand Christian repentance. If you did you would realize it is the only strategy there is to overcome sin.

No. You're wrong. It is not the strategy to overcome sin. The only strategy to overcome sin is to surrender our hearts, our minds, our will to the Lord Jesus Christ and continue to live our life in Him and to follow Him every single day. That is the narrow path Jesus spoke of. There is no other way to overcome and unless we overcome? We will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus Christ never told any man to follow a religion or any religious leader of a church! He said, we must follow Him and His Word as it is written in the Bible. (not the Book of Mormon, not the Qu'ran, not any other Book!) Those who are followers of Christ are the Church! It's not a building, it's not an organization - it is the body of Jesus Christ! Whenever, wherever the Christians come together and praise Jesus? That's church.

You act as if I said something different. Repentance comes through Christ and the terms He provided.

You are wrong about the church not being organized though. We could save that for another discussion though.

It is through Jesus Christ of the King James Bible and there are no terms. Jesus forgives freely. You are in the Mormon church which teaches another Christ whose brother was Lucifer and Jesus having wives. That is not the Jesus Christ of the Holy Bible. It has nothing to do with Jesus Christ of Nazareth whom I serve, Avatar.

There is nothing to discuss about an organized church. Men can organize what they will but God does not approve of religion. He approves of His Son and those who follow Him with all their hearts having received Him according to Romans 10:9,10. The Body of Christ is what makes up the church. Not a denomination, religion or cult.

You need to read your bible more. The body of Christ is clearly organized and visible. And Christ spelled out how to come to Him repent throughout the scriptures.

The early church went from house to house worshipping God. How does one move a "building" from house to house? It is not possible. The church is the body of Jesus Christ. Where two or more are gathered in His name - there He is.

Don't complicate things - the Apostles appointed those whom God had chosen to care for the widows, provide meals, etc. When the early church gathered together - they had fellowship with one another and cared for one another. The Mormon teachings are founded on the occult and have no part of Christ. If you desire Christ, leave the teachings of Joseph Smith behind. He was an occultist and his teachings are false.

You cannot drink from the cup of the LORD and the cup of demons, Avatar. You must choose one or the other. Life or death. Choose life.

 

[Avatar4321]

The fact that he freely confessed it and never hid it is what brought his sins to the public eye. his politics have nothing to do with it.

The fact that you are unforgiving toward him because of his politics demonstrates you don't care about victims. If you cared about his victims you'd pay attention to the fact that they have forgiven him.

You have not been demonized. Nor anyone else. Telling the truth is not demonizing no matter how unpleasant you find the truth to be.

wrong, his politics have everything to do with why he is being soundly rebuked...

you lie when you call it a FACT what i supposedly don't 'forgive'. Jesus frowns when you lie to yourself like that.


and when you claim people don't care about victims to make a point you are demonizing ^



fact is, personal forgiveness is beside the point that i am making...

how forgiving will the laws be toward marginalized citizens if extreme bible thumpers had their political way..?









Foxfyre

demanding that one person bear the most severe penalty of law but give those we like pretty much a pass, it all becomes quite murky and the lines of justice become very blurred.

I think each of us has to search our own heart for what is appropriate in any given case.

[QUOTE="Valerie, post: 11606367, member: 11971" --->



none of our opinions have the power of any law to 'give passes' or 'severe' punishment..in our heart?


what does it mean to DEMAND when you are merely giving your opinion, you can't demand others agree with you..?


laws exist which seek to protect children like those sisters from any harm as clinically defined within the law.

their personal forgiveness is typical and does not preclude the law yet the law has not demanded penalty.


the reason duggar is being highlighted lately is because the creep did what he did and still has the nerve to politically pontificate over what is supposedly harmful to children...

maybe you could search your heart for understanding why others soundly rebuke his agenda.

Why do his politics have to do with your forgiveness against him? Or with you using the victims to attack his politics?

Every single person here arguing against forgiveness has no problem with their parties political leaders advocate death, hurt people and act with completely disregard to repentance. In fact that frequently do advocate killing children. That is hypocrisy

And not to mention the fact that they are completely lying about the circumstances. You guys keep denying that he submitted to the proper authorities. You completely ignore.the fact that he provided counseling to his victims to help heal them. You keep ignoring that he was in fact a child when this happened.

And yet you want to hold him, a private citizen, responsible for this why excusing political leaders you like for far worse. Why? Because you hate his politics.

That is the very definition of hypocrisy. You don't have to look into someone's heart when they speak very clearly as to whom they are.

If you guys cared for the victims, you wouldn't be using them for political attacks. You wouldn't be using them to attack the faith they share. And you sure as heck wouldn't have to lie to make your points

 

[Valerie]

there is no lie in my posts, liar...

obviously my simple questions are much too 'disturbing' for you.

 

[NYcarbineer]

I agree. mortal and denial sins are a Catholic th. As no one is Catholic in this discussion as I can see, it's irrelevant.

So Catholics aren't Christians? Catholicism isn't a religion?