Zone1 Jesus was mean.. (I guess) because He said that anyone who does not accept the Gospel is condemned!

[ninja007]

Actually "saved" isn't a thing in Catholicism, that is pure Protestant. Catholics teach redemption and salvation. We don't often hear the word "saved". Because of Apostolic teaching/tradition in the Catholic faith, I am not at all surprised to hear it is Talmudic.

saved was a thing to Jesus as He mentioned it alot.

 

[ninja007]

the gospel mentions zero nothing about the rcc. lol.

 

[Meriweather]

saved was a thing to Jesus as He mentioned it alot.

See Post #36. The Aramaic intent of 'saved' is not the same as your intent in using the word 'saved'.

 

[Meriweather]

the gospel mentions zero nothing about the rcc. lol.

Exactly. That puts the cart before the horse. The Catholic/Orthodox churches present the Gospel, not vice-versa.

The Gospel is presented in its traditional form, where salvation (or your "saved") takes place in the present, physical form, not something one awaits for after death.

 

[1miseryindex]

Why does an omniscient, immortal being have to order inferior beings like us mere mortals to love it under threat of divine retribution?

IMO the god that does that isn't deserving of love.

God's commandments are for OUR happiness and eternally abiding with HIM who is without sin.

Sin destroys the soul, makes one not even want to get into Heaven (unless the sin is absolved, preferably absolved sacramentally---)

Liberals deny that sin affects them or anyone adversely. It is such a LIE. They lie to themselves all day long.

 

[Blues Man]

God's commandments are for OUR happiness and eternally abiding with HIM who is without sin.

Sin destroys the soul, makes one not even want to get into Heaven (unless the sin is absolved, preferably absolved sacramentally---)

Liberals deny that sin affects them or anyone adversely. It is such a LIE. They lie to themselves all day long.

No they aren't.

When a mere thought can be a sin and you can die for it how does that make you happy?

Accepting that you are flawed from birth and are a wicked sinner who maybe if the penalties are scary enough or the rewards are great enough can be made to behave is not making you happy.

and I'm not a liberal whatever that is.

There is no such thing as sin there are only errors in cognition.

Now do you believe that a woman who is not a virgin on her wedding night should be stoned to death in front of her father's home?

That's what is said should be done in the bible right?

I don't think you believe that. I sure as hell hope you don't. If you don't think that is the correct moral thing to do then you are choosing secular humanism over the moral laws of the bible because you know it's a better choice.

Yet you for some reason can't trust yourself to decide your own morality

 

[buttercup]

Kind of disagree with you on this point. There are a few people I think of as "good" but as God sees us....

The LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;

29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed

To be clear, my point was that humans are not ALL bad.

I agree that human nature is prone to selfishness and sin.... but I was just saying that human are not completely "just awful beings" as Blues Man stated. Because the reality is, we also have a conscience, that comes from God. The problem is that when there's an inner conflict between our human nature and our conscience, for a lot of people their human nature wins out. And not to get off topic, but when that happens repeatedly, I think a person's conscience becomes 'deadened'.... and in the worst possible case, like with serial killers, there's eventually no conscience at all.

 

[buttercup]

No they aren't.

When a mere thought can be a sin and you can die for it how does that make you happy?

Everything starts in the mind. That's why Jesus taught the importance of our thoughts, because all transgressions (murder, theft, adultery, etc) start as thoughts. Thoughts are powerful... and can change one's life, for the better or for the worse. So Jesus' teaching on changing our thinking is pure wisdom.

But getting back to your disagreement with miseryindex's comment about God's commandments....I agree with what he said. But to put it in a less big-picture way, I'd say God's commandments are for our well-being and safety.

I'm sure you would agree that a good parent has some basic rules for their children, right? Don't run into the street without looking first, don't touch a hot stove, don't hurt your little brother, bed time is at 8, etc, etc... Obviously those rules for their children are for their own good, and their safety. Why, because their parents love them.

In the same way, God's commandments are for our good because God loves us. I know that you don't believe.... but for the sake of argument, assume God exists and please answer this question in a theoretical way. Who would know better about the best way to live: The One who created us and who knows us better than we know ourselves..... or a regular joe schmo with limited knowledge? Again, you don't have to be a believer to answer that in a theoretical way.

 

[ninja007]

Jesus made it clear very wealthy people cannot enter the kingdom b of heaven.

nope. read it again.

 

[ninja007]

See Post #36. The Aramaic intent of 'saved' is not the same as your intent in using the word 'saved'.

you follow men not Jesus. Youve been warned a hundred times by me and others.

 

[ninja007]

Exactly. That puts the cart before the horse. The Catholic/Orthodox churches present the Gospel, not vice-versa.

The Gospel is presented in its traditional form, where salvation (or your "saved") takes place in the present, physical form, not something one awaits for after death.

what are you taking about? We believe we are saved and can know we are saved NOW, like Jesus says. Catholics do not believe that.

 

[Blues Man]

Everything starts in the mind. That's why Jesus taught the importance of our thoughts, because all transgressions (murder, theft, adultery, etc) start as thoughts. Thoughts are powerful... and can change one's life, for the better or for the worse. So Jesus' teaching on changing our thinking is pure wisdom.

But getting back to your disagreement with miseryindex's comment about God's commandments....I agree with what he said. But to put it in a less big-picture way, I'd say God's commandments are for our well-being and safety.

I'm sure you would agree that a good parent has some basic rules for their children, right? Don't run into the street without looking first, don't touch a hot stove, don't hurt your little brother, bed time is at 8, etc, etc... Obviously those rules for their children are for their own good, and their safety. Why, because their parents love them.

In the same way, God's commandments are for our good because God loves us. I know that you don't believe.... but for the sake of argument, assume God exists and please answer this question in a theoretical way. Who would know better about the best way to live: The One who created us and who knows us better than we know ourselves..... or a regular joe schmo with limited knowledge? Again, you don't have to be a believer to answer that in a theoretical way.

And thoughts enter your mind unbidden. you cannot control them. If you practice meditation long enough you know this. People are not their thoughts any more than a wave is the ocean.

We don't need any god to tell us what is dangerous or not because we learned all that as we evolved as a species. There isn't a commandment that has to do with behavior that did not exist before the Bible was written. There were laws against theft, murder, adultery perjury etc that were all codified by humans. Even when there were no large stationary settlements , tribes had their own codes of behavior.

 

[Meriweather]

you follow men not Jesus. Youve been warned a hundred times by me and others.

I've been warned by men, have I?

 

[Meriweather]

what are you taking about? We believe we are saved and can know we are saved NOW, like Jesus says. Catholics do not believe that.

Salvation is lived out today, in each minute of our life.

 

[1miseryindex]

I've been warned by men, have I?

GREAT ANSWER!

 

[1miseryindex]

Salvation is lived out today, in each minute of our life.

yep, one can be "Christian" today and act like a total heathen/maniac tomorrow when he doesn't get his way.

Jesus said that not forgiving, for example, means YOU will not be forgiven. You can be "christian" one day and absolutely refuse to forgive someone the next... better hope to God there is a Purgatory where maybe you can have a chance to fully repent and have that unforgiveness washed off your soul... (seeing as how "Nothing unclean will enter Heaven" (Revelation)

 

[buttercup]

And thoughts enter your mind unbidden. you cannot control them. If you practice meditation long enough you know this. People are not their thoughts any more than a wave is the ocean.

Wow, I'm surprised to hear you say that, but I find ^ this post to be very telling, and now it's more clear to me why you are the way you are.

Of course you can control your thoughts! The fact that they can enter the mind unbidden is precisely why they need to be controlled.

Letting anything into your mind is akin to leaving the door to your house wide open, so that anyone or anything can enter it.

We don't need any god to tell us what is dangerous or not because we learned all that as we evolved as a species. There isn't a commandment that has to do with behavior that did not exist before the Bible was written. There were laws against theft, murder, adultery perjury etc that were all codified by humans. Even when there were no large stationary settlements , tribes had their own codes of behavior.

First off, Darwinian evolution is one of the biggest lies ever perpetrated on mankind. Secondly, it's not a matter of "needing" God to tell us. Of course we can know right from wrong or what we should stay away from even before we're believers, because we all have a conscience, and intuition, both God-given. But I was responding to your objection that God's commandments were for our happiness. That's why I brought up the parent analogy.

Thirdly, of course laws and codes of behavior have existed for a very long time, even before the Bible. Mankind codifying laws has nothing to do with the actual source of the underlying truth or principle.

And mankind doesn't always get laws right, which shows that man-made laws do not always harmonize with objective truth that comes from God.

 

[Blues Man]

Wow, I'm surprised to hear you say that, but I find ^ this post to be very telling, and now it's more clear to me why you are the way you are.

Of course you can control your thoughts! The fact that they can enter the mind unbidden is precisely why they need to be controlled.

Letting anything into your mind is akin to leaving the door to your house wide open, so that anyone or anything can enter it.




First off, Darwinian evolution is one of the biggest lies ever perpetrated on mankind. Secondly, it's not a matter of "needing" God to tell us. Of course we can know right from wrong or what we should stay away from even before we're believers, because we all have a conscience, and intuition, both God-given. But I was responding to your objection that God's commandments were for our happiness. That's why I brought up the parent analogy.

Thirdly, of course laws and codes of behavior have existed for a very long time, even before the Bible. Mankind codifying laws has nothing to do with the actual source of the underlying truth or principle.

And mankind doesn't always get laws right, which shows that man-made laws do not always harmonize with objective truth that comes from God.

Why I am the way I am. Who are you to judge my state of being?

And yes you can control SOME of your thoughts but not all.
If you tell me that things do not pop into your head unless you consciously will it you are lying. Your unconscious mind is far more powerful than you want to think it is. You do not have to act on every thought that pops into your head but pop into your head they do anyway.

You take in far more information unconsciously than you do by choice. Denying that is denying basic human neurology.

Tell me if you have a lustful dream while sleeping are you committing a sin? Why are you allowing your unconscious mind to have a sexy dream?

If you want to deny the fact that humans have evolved that's your choice. But the DNA research doesn't lie.

Believers cherry pick which moral decrees in the bible they follow because you like some of them and then you ignore the ones you don't like and replace those with better versions. That alone tells you that morals come from humans not god. Sure humans get things wrong but I know you do not follow all the moral commands in the bible because you would not stone a woman to death for not being a virgin on her wedding night nor would you condone the killing of a Jew who did not observe the sabbath nor would you condone slavery so I can imply from these things I know about you that you think some of the moral degrees in the bible are also wrong.

Jesus said commanded love your neighbor as yourself but that didn't apply to the slaves owned by a person's neighbor did it? Because if a person truly loved a slave as himself he would not stand for that slave being held in bondage

If morals are the way we increase the well being of all conscious beings on this planet then we can absolutely by reason and science create our own moral code.

 

[GreatestIam]

It is well docemented that Jonah or Jonas as Jesus called him did exist.

How literally do you read the bible?
Do you believe in a real talking serpent and donkey?

 

[GreatestIam]

Which Bible are you using? The Comparative Study Bible does not have Jesus saying this when he commissions his disciples. irosie91 is correct. Matthew did not write that.

There are a number of verses that say that none of us are bound for a hell that cannot exist if the scripture is true.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

1 Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.