'Is Secession Legal?'

[Soggy in NOLA]

Fucking dumbasses.. nobody's going to secede from the U.S.

Jesus....

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

But with that said... it isn't illegal. It does, however, become a problem when you unilaterally secede and then attack another state. Hence that whole Civil War thang.

 

[rightwinger]

And it's also right next to Mexico. There's a whole lot of Central and South Americans that would love to gut and loot Texas. Let's see how well ya'll do without the rest of the country. Hmm, maybe you'll become a colony of Venezuela, or Columbia.

And maybe, after a few years of occupation, we'll "Come to your rescue" again, like we did the first time.

NO there was no "rescue' the first time. It was a land grab by the US. Texas gained independence when Mexico was far more powerful than Mexico is today and retained that independence until a vote was usurped by land hungry Americans who, abusing the Texas Voting laws of the time, rushed across the border to "vote" Texas into the Union while the long term residents, actual Texicans, voted nearly unanimously to remain independent.

And frankly, I'd rather be around Mexicans than Yankees.

The feeling is mutual. At least Mexicans appreciate the United States

 

[Tech_Esq]

Actually it is the abuse of power at the federal level which makes secession so attractive.

What 'abuse of power' specifically? What rights have you, personally, specifically been denied?

As there is nothing in the constitution to BAR secession, it is constitutionally legal despite what the federal government would like to claim; despite the attempt by the Supreme court to modify the Constitution by their ruling in White vs Texas.

The legality of an issue is the purview of the supreme court, barring specific legislation on said issue.

The Supreme Court in no way attempted to "Modify the Constitution", they interpreted the Constitution, which is their job.

On order to make secession "legal" one would have to overturn the prior decision, or make specific legislation to define legal secession.

Since neither of these instances has occurred, secession is illegal, as defined by the Supreme Court's interpretation of the Constitution.



No, they could not, after all that would be illegal immigration. We'd send 'em right back to you.



Unless of course one of several countries decided that the seceded state would be a nice fat target. And the US would have no reason to step in.

And of course they would not have any Federal Debt.
Unless their state currently is in debt at the state level.

Of course they would. The US would just send them a bill for all the funding they received over the past few decades that contributed to the debt.

Good thing Texas has a balanced budget and a surplus.
We even had that during the oil glut of the mid 80's.
Texas conservatism must be doing something right.

And it's also right next to Mexico. There's a whole lot of Central and South Americans that would love to gut and loot Texas. Let's see how well ya'll do without the rest of the country. Hmm, maybe you'll become a colony of Venezuela, or Columbia.

And maybe, after a few years of occupation, we'll "Come to your rescue" again, like we did the first time.

Not very good at this are you. I would have expected a better performance with such a slam-dunk topic. You baited someone into responding to this BS and then you let him off the hook completely.

One weak and useless argument after another. Better luck next time though.

 

[Charles Stucker]

And frankly, I'd rather be around Mexicans than Yankees.

The feeling is mutual. At least Mexicans appreciate the United States

Yeah those Yankees only appreciate their government welfare checks.

 

[Tech_Esq]

But with that said... it isn't illegal. It does, however, become a problem when you unilaterally secede and then attack another state. Hence that whole Civil War thang.

Have you not learned the oft cited quote, "The victors write the history?"

Saying secession is illegal is just a defacto truism because the South did not win.

Had the South won, what would the story be then?

That said, I don't think the question is whether secession is legal per se or not. It may have been legal in 1860 or not. The fact was then, as I'm sure the fact is now, that the President of the US would be obliged to attempt to keep the union together by force if necessary regardless of whatever the state of the law might technically be on the matter.

Would the US suffer internationally, probably not at all, only for a short time if they did.

All in all, the secession argument doesn't even rise to the level of mental masturbation, it shouldn't even be discussed with any amount of sincerity.

 

[Vast LWC]

Not very good at this are you. I would have expected a better performance with such a slam-dunk topic. You baited someone into responding to this BS and then you let him off the hook completely.

One weak and useless argument after another. Better luck next time though.

I'm sorry, were you looking to me to argue AGAINST Texas seceding from the Union?

I'd LOVE Texas to secede from the Union. Good riddance.

I'll also love it when they get invaded and we have to bail them out.

 

[Vast LWC]

NO there was no "rescue' the first time. It was a land grab by the US. Texas gained independence when Mexico was far more powerful than Mexico is today and retained that independence until a vote was usurped by land hungry Americans who, abusing the Texas Voting laws of the time, rushed across the border to "vote" Texas into the Union while the long term residents, actual Texicans, voted nearly unanimously to remain independent.

And frankly, I'd rather be around Mexicans than Yankees.

Ever watch the original "Star Trek"?

Remember how Mr Chekov used to claim accomplishments on behalf of Russia all the time?

Yeah, this is the same kind of revisionist history.

 

[rightwinger]

And frankly, I'd rather be around Mexicans than Yankees.

The feeling is mutual. At least Mexicans appreciate the United States

Yeah those Yankees only appreciate their government welfare checks.

Feel free to leave any time....

 

[Polk]

And frankly, I'd rather be around Mexicans than Yankees.

The feeling is mutual. At least Mexicans appreciate the United States

Yeah those Yankees only appreciate their government welfare checks.

Which is funny, because it's the those rock-ribbed self-reliant red states that depend on so much cash from the rest of the country to stay afloat.

 

[Titanic Sailor]

We're getting ready to move to Texas in a few years. I'd like to wait for the revolution to get moving, but I have a life too.

 

[Charles Stucker]

We are talking Texans here. Not patriotic Texans, but secessionist who would willingly withdraw from the greatest country on earth.

If the US were still the greatest country on Earth you might not sound so ignorant. As it is the Patriotic Texans are the ones who would like to see a return to the Constitutional balance between the states and the federal government. It is just treasonous scum Yankees who want to keep big government going.

 

[Vast LWC]

We are talking Texans here. Not patriotic Texans, but secessionist who would willingly withdraw from the greatest country on earth.

If the US were still the greatest country on Earth you might not sound so ignorant. As it is the Patriotic Texans are the ones who would like to see a return to the Constitutional balance between the states and the federal government. It is just treasonous scum Yankees who want to keep big government going.

Wow, check it out, we have an honest to goodness Traitor right here on USMB.

Not just one of those rhetorical traitors, which people on each end of the political spectrum are constantly calling each other, but the real McCoy.

And then he goes on to call people traitors for some random undefined "big government" reason.

You know Charles, the South had a very similar stance when they seceded, only in their case they wanted to keep the States right to legalize slavery.

Congratulations Charles Stucker, you're a traitor.

 

[Charles Stucker]

Wow, check it out, we have an honest to goodness Traitor right here on USMB.

Not just one of those rhetorical traitors, which people on each end of the political spectrum are constantly calling each other, but the real McCoy.

Sure, wanting a return to the CONSTITUTION makes one a traitor. Wait no, the scum who overthrew the constitution are traitors. Like the members of Vast Left Wing Conspiracies. Those are the traitors.

 

[rightwinger]

We are talking Texans here. Not patriotic Texans, but secessionist who would willingly withdraw from the greatest country on earth.

If the US were still the greatest country on Earth you might not sound so ignorant. As it is the Patriotic Texans are the ones who would like to see a return to the Constitutional balance between the states and the federal government. It is just treasonous scum Yankees who want to keep big government going.

We have us an honest to god, US hating traitor. Glad to see that most honorable Texans would be repulsed by your opinion of the greatest country on earth.

Which country do you prefer Comrade Stucker? Need I ask?

 

[Vast LWC]

Wow, check it out, we have an honest to goodness Traitor right here on USMB.

Not just one of those rhetorical traitors, which people on each end of the political spectrum are constantly calling each other, but the real McCoy.

Sure, wanting a return to the CONSTITUTION makes one a traitor. Wait no, the scum who overthrew the constitution are traitors. Like the members of Vast Left Wing Conspiracies. Those are the traitors.

You're advocating the secession of your state from the Union.

That is the very definition of treason.

There's really nothing that would be more treasonous that I could think of, with the possible exception of a violent coup d'tat.

 

[Charles Stucker]

Wow, check it out, we have an honest to goodness Traitor right here on USMB.

Not just one of those rhetorical traitors, which people on each end of the political spectrum are constantly calling each other, but the real McCoy.

Sure, wanting a return to the CONSTITUTION makes one a traitor. Wait no, the scum who overthrew the constitution are traitors. Like the members of Vast Left Wing Conspiracies. Those are the traitors.

You're advocating the secession of your state from the Union.

That is the very definition of treason.

There's really nothing that would be more treasonous that I could think of, with the possible exception of a violent coup d'tat.

Right because the TRAITOROUS WOULD BE TYRANTS like you and Rightwinger want the federal government to have all the power, ignoring constitutional limits.
Voting to be free of such tyranny is exactly what the revolutionary war was about, or was George Washington a Traitor?
How about the signers of the Declaration of Independence - you know the one that starts "When in the course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bonds"
You talk about treason and traitors, but the real traitors are the people turning their backs on the actual traditions of this nation; liberty being a prime one.

 

[rightwinger]

Sure, wanting a return to the CONSTITUTION makes one a traitor. Wait no, the scum who overthrew the constitution are traitors. Like the members of Vast Left Wing Conspiracies. Those are the traitors.

You're advocating the secession of your state from the Union.

That is the very definition of treason.

There's really nothing that would be more treasonous that I could think of, with the possible exception of a violent coup d'tat.

Right because the TRAITOROUS WOULD BE TYRANTS like you and Rightwinger want the federal government to have all the power, ignoring constitutional limits.
Voting to be free of such tyranny is exactly what the revolutionary war was about, or was George Washington a Traitor?
How about the signers of the Declaration of Independence - you know the one that starts "When in the course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bonds"
You talk about treason and traitors, but the real traitors are the people turning their backs on the actual traditions of this nation; liberty being a prime one.

Comrade Stucker. We understand why you and your America hating cohorts are upset. "We the People of the United States" held a vote and your side was unanimously defeated. Now you want to withdraw from the greatest nation on earth.


"We the People" are glad to see you leave

 

[Missourian]

Sorry, but anyone in this thread calling Charles a traitor is absolutely and without doubt as WRONG as they could possibily be.

Here is the U.S. Armed services Oath:

"I, _____ (SSAN), having been appointed an officer in the Army of the United States, as indicated above in the grade of _____ do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign or domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservations or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter; So help me God." (DA Form 71, 1 August 1959, for officers.)

​

Nothing about the Union, the United States...only the Constitution.

As Charles bases his entire argument on defending the Constitution...he is a Patriot of the HIGHEST order.

 

[Zona]

Whether it is legal or not, Secession in this day and age is not technically possible. Too many functions are performed at the federal level to allow states to pull away and still function idependently. It would be the equivalent of cutting off your head

Imagine the joy the mexicans would have if Texas really did leave the united states.......how fun would that be to see how fast Mexico would come up, delcare war on Texas and take it back.

How fucking great would that be.