Its time to legalize secession.

[Leviticus]

I believe that it's time to create a legal mechanism in the constitution that will allow for peaceful secession.

There Should be a constitutional amendment allowing for negotiations between a state and the federal government over possible secession.

Such amendment should include five requirements that are mandatory and not negotiable. Meaning that these things must happen in order for a state to secede.

1; All residents of a former state that claim citizenship in that state as a sovereign nation Shall be construed as to have renounced US citizenship. This means they lose all rights as US citizens and will be considered foreigners. If they wish to reclaim US citizenship later they will have to go through The naturalization process like any other foreigner.

2; The united states shall not give Military or economic aid to any former state that has seceded for a period of no less than ten years. Nor shall there be any trade Deal made between the united states and a former state during that period. Meaning that they are on their own if they are invaded, They are all their own if their economy collapses, And they will not have any form of free trade with the united states.

3; Former states shall be required to pay for the use of US waters. This means if texas secedes and wants to use the mississippi river to trade with canada, They have to pay the United States for the right to ship on the river because it is considered sovereign US waters.

4; Former states shall have no right to federal munitions located in their state. All arms, military vehicles, missiles, and other military equipment belonging to the US shall be removed from the state. Any Interference in this process will be an act of war and will be met with full military force.

5; Any former state which has succeeded from the US Which wishes to return to the united states shall be required to hold territory status for a period of no less than 20 years prior to being allowed to apply for statehood. This shall include the same limitation and restrictions of other federal territories, Such as having no representatives on the electoral college, They're delegates to congress having no right to vote on bills, And other such restrictions.

 

[Esdraelon]

4; Former states shall have no right to federal munitions located in their state. All arms, military vehicles, missiles, and other military equipment belonging to the US shall be removed from the state. Any Interference in this process will be an act of war and will be met with full military force.

THAT would guarantee war. Why not just cut to the chase you totalitarian bastard? If it weren't for DC becoming irredeemably corrupt, secession wouldn't be necessary. The states that part company, despite your power-trip fantasies, won't NEED your pathetic, crime-ridden chaotic "union" any longer.

 

[XponentialChaos]

Its time to legalize secession.​

 

[sparky]

What of properties federally owned w/in the state??

~S~

 

[frigidweirdo]

I believe that it's time to create a legal mechanism in the constitution that will allow for peaceful secession.

There Should be a constitutional amendment allowing for negotiations between a state and the federal government over possible secession.

Such amendment should include five requirements that are mandatory and not negotiable. Meaning that these things must happen in order for a state to secede.

1; All residents of a former state that claim citizenship in that state as a sovereign nation Shall be construed as to have renounced US citizenship. This means they lose all rights as US citizens and will be considered foreigners. If they wish to reclaim US citizenship later they will have to go through The naturalization process like any other foreigner.

2; The united states shall not give Military or economic aid to any former state that has seceded for a period of no less than ten years. Nor shall there be any trade Deal made between the united states and a former state during that period. Meaning that they are on their own if they are invaded, They are all their own if their economy collapses, And they will not have any form of free trade with the united states.

3; Former states shall be required to pay for the use of US waters. This means if texas secedes and wants to use the mississippi river to trade with canada, They have to pay the United States for the right to ship on the river because it is considered sovereign US waters.

4; Former states shall have no right to federal munitions located in their state. All arms, military vehicles, missiles, and other military equipment belonging to the US shall be removed from the state. Any Interference in this process will be an act of war and will be met with full military force.

5; Any former state which has succeeded from the US Which wishes to return to the united states shall be required to hold territory status for a period of no less than 20 years prior to being allowed to apply for statehood. This shall include the same limitation and restrictions of other federal territories, Such as having no representatives on the electoral college, They're delegates to congress having no right to vote on bills, And other such restrictions.

It's funny because in the UK, in Spain and other such countries, the right wingers HATE secession. Though the Tories in the UK wanted out of the EU, but when it came to Scotland it was all "we're better off together".

 

[BertramN]

A rebuilding of a Conservative Confederacy of American States would fail within a decade.

The conservative contempt for education, the educated, people of color, ambitious women, and the many, many other groups they openly hate would doom their "nation" to third world status.

With a workforce of limited skills prevalent in today's red states, even the lure of government enforced low wages and crappy working conditions could not encourage industry to move to this uneducated confederacy. (China, after all, has decades as a very pro education country. Therefore, China will continue to offer workers with superior skills over anything the Conservative Confederacy of American States could provide.)

The industry that would stay following secession and the inevitable deregulation would very soon push environmental pollution past the point of human tolerance. This is fine for the upper management that would headquarter somewhere outside the confederacy, but it would be fatal to the low-paid residents.

Yes, for the red states to secede would immensely benefit blue states. However, the red states' new country would be a disaster in short order. Representatives from this confederacy would soon arrive on the United States' doorstep with their hands out begging for financial help. (The inability to cope with an ever-worsening hurricane seasons alone would quickly prove the inferior nature of the Conservative Confederacy of American States, especially those on the Gulf Coast. FEMA is, after all, a form of socialism.)

The benefits for the U.S. would, indeed, increase with each red state's departure.

Also, each seceding red state assumes responsibility for their portion of the current National Debt. There will be no "dine and dash" in this deal.




.

 

[Leviticus]

What of properties federally owned w/in the state??

~S~

Federal land such as national parks would be Transferred to state ownership.
Military property would be emptied out of all equipment and that equipment would be relocated.
Things that can't easily be relocated such as nasa Could make a a deal to continue operating until new facilities can be constructed outside of the state. Federal roads located in the date would be transferred to state ownership, But Citizens of states that seated would not be allowed to use them to drive into the United States without a Visa and checkpoint would be constructed to an. Ensure this.

 

[Mac1958]

A rebuilding of a Conservative Confederacy of American States would fail within a decade.

It's just sad to see this happen, for it even to get this far. At a fundamental level, politics can be about problem-solving. You recognize a problem and work together to solve it. This is basic shit, and it's a goddamn critical skill.

We now have a large segment of the population that lacks that skill, because it has been told it has to "fight", and that other Americans are not co-collaborators, but rather are "evil" and the "enemy" with whom they are at "war".

Our political disagreements should be our strength, but they require communication and collaboration if we want to improve anything. Taking your toys and running away? This conversation shouldn't even be happening.

 

[BertramN]

It's just sad to see this happen, for it even to get this far. At a fundamental level, politics can be about problem-solving. You recognize a problem and work together to solve it. This is basic shit, and it's a goddamn critical skill.

We now have a large segment of the population that lacks that skill, because it has been told it has to "fight", and that other Americans are not co-collaborators, but rather are "evil" and the "enemy" with whom they are at "war".

Our political disagreements should be our strength, but they require communication and collaboration if we want to improve anything. Taking your toys and running away? This conversation shouldn't even be happening.

Ideally, yes. But we've had sixty years of the GOP's Southern Strategy preaching hate to the right-wingers, and forty years with the Republicans and moderate Democrats trying to make Reaganomics appear viable. But Reaganomics has always been snake oil that's gradually killing off the middle class and creating more and more poverty. Reagan's promised trickledown just ain't happening and hasn't for over forty years.

Keeping the right and left at each other's throats has been extremely profitable for the billionaire class and Big Business. Tax cuts, subsidies, forgivable loans and other federal giveaways to the fat cats have run this country into more than thirty trillion dollars of debt, with no end in sight.

Conservatives claim to abhor socialism, but they have no qualms with the "wealthfare" practiced in our predatory capitalist system. The more federal dollars raked in by the billionaires, the better.





.

 

[there4eyeM]

Secession should be legal in China and Russia, perhaps. The Perpetual Union was voluntarily created by Americans. That agreement stands. Those who would attack it are the enemies of the Republic and all Americans.

 

[WinterBorn]

Any time I hear about secession, I Google how much that state receives from the federal gov't. Politicians will flip-flop on issues, but never on money.

 

[WorldWatcher]

I believe that it's time to create a legal mechanism in the constitution that will allow for peaceful secession.

There Should be a constitutional amendment allowing for negotiations between a state and the federal government over possible secession.

Such amendment should include five requirements that are mandatory and not negotiable. Meaning that these things must happen in order for a state to secede.

1; All residents of a former state that claim citizenship in that state as a sovereign nation Shall be construed as to have renounced US citizenship. This means they lose all rights as US citizens and will be considered foreigners. If they wish to reclaim US citizenship later they will have to go through The naturalization process like any other foreigner.

2; The united states shall not give Military or economic aid to any former state that has seceded for a period of no less than ten years. Nor shall there be any trade Deal made between the united states and a former state during that period. Meaning that they are on their own if they are invaded, They are all their own if their economy collapses, And they will not have any form of free trade with the united states.

3; Former states shall be required to pay for the use of US waters. This means if texas secedes and wants to use the mississippi river to trade with canada, They have to pay the United States for the right to ship on the river because it is considered sovereign US waters.

4; Former states shall have no right to federal munitions located in their state. All arms, military vehicles, missiles, and other military equipment belonging to the US shall be removed from the state. Any Interference in this process will be an act of war and will be met with full military force.

5; Any former state which has succeeded from the US Which wishes to return to the united states shall be required to hold territory status for a period of no less than 20 years prior to being allowed to apply for statehood. This shall include the same limitation and restrictions of other federal territories, Such as having no representatives on the electoral college, They're delegates to congress having no right to vote on bills, And other such restrictions.

You forgot two:

6; The former state would assume financial responsibility for a proportion of the National Debt equal to their proportion of population based on the last National Census. Such debt to be paid at the time of secession with the former state having the responsibility to provide financing to assume the debt.

7; The former state assumes full responsibility for any prior and future application of any programs the new country wishes to establish for retirement supplemental income and medical assistance. Except at the time of secession the former state WOULD be eligible to receive any excess funds held in trust in the Hospital Insurance (Medicare), Old-Age and Survivors Insurance (Social Security). The United States will be absolved of any responsibility to it's former citizens.

WW

 

[1srelluc]

I believe we are seeing sort of a "silent secession" now as far as fed .gov edicts being ignored by large segments of the population, regardless of the state they reside in.

It's like sane folks have said "No Mr. Federal Man, I won't be doing that today or any other day". They don't rend their garments over it, they just don't do it.

 

[sparky]

The devil be in the details here....~S~

 

[OldFlame]

It's just sad to see this happen, for it even to get this far. At a fundamental level, politics can be about problem-solving. You recognize a problem and work together to solve it. This is basic shit, and it's a goddamn critical skill.

We now have a large segment of the population that lacks that skill, because it has been told it has to "fight", and that other Americans are not co-collaborators, but rather are "evil" and the "enemy" with whom they are at "war".

Our political disagreements should be our strength, but they require communication and collaboration if we want to improve anything. Taking your toys and running away? This conversation shouldn't even be happening.

Yes, it is sad. That's what happens when you belittle half of the population and accuse them of being in a cult and trying to 'destroy democracy'. Trump and his supporters have been declared the enemy by the current administration, not just faceless and nameless people on the left, but the current administration and therefore, the federal government. Those aren't light words, and it's directly from federal authority, a corrupted authority. The leftist government just keeps throwing them around and then expects some kind of collaboration? They may look at them as meaningless soundbites, but they are anything but that, people are listening. As usual, your comments are not serious, they only accuse the half that you hate, while leaving blameless the side that you actually reside on. You don't 'collaborate' with anyone, you are drunk with power and corruption and think you can dictate to the other side what it will and will not accept. We also do not have 'political' disagreements, our disagreements are at the core moral fiber of a society and how it operates, which is why we are where we are today. Since you're nothing but a political hack, I certainly wouldn't expect you to understand any of that, none of means anything to you. The only thing that means anything to you is 'winning', and you do that via any means necessary, you don't care about the country or the people in it, nor do you care about the Constitution. You only care about your supposed 'ideals' being forced on everyone else around you, and using any means necessary to ensure it happens. Enjoy the shitshow that you helped to create, because it's not going away any time soon.

 

[OldFlame]

And all the asshole does is laugh, but yet talks about having 'dialogue' and 'collaboration', he's not capable of it, simple as that.

Just as I said, nothing serious about any of his posts, they're merely designed to insult and inflame, nothing more.

 

[there4eyeM]

America has descended into a pathological personality crisis. The absolute incapacity to see beyond only two views, two sides maintains the nation in a state of irresoluble situations. If 'either' 'side' were ever to be correct or have a good idea, it is necessarily an unacceptable defeat for the 'other'. Bitter denunciation and accusation follows every minor issue that is trotted out for us.
Alternatives exist.

 

[Resnic]

I believe that it's time to create a legal mechanism in the constitution that will allow for peaceful secession.

There Should be a constitutional amendment allowing for negotiations between a state and the federal government over possible secession.

Such amendment should include five requirements that are mandatory and not negotiable. Meaning that these things must happen in order for a state to secede.

1; All residents of a former state that claim citizenship in that state as a sovereign nation Shall be construed as to have renounced US citizenship. This means they lose all rights as US citizens and will be considered foreigners. If they wish to reclaim US citizenship later they will have to go through The naturalization process like any other foreigner.

2; The united states shall not give Military or economic aid to any former state that has seceded for a period of no less than ten years. Nor shall there be any trade Deal made between the united states and a former state during that period. Meaning that they are on their own if they are invaded, They are all their own if their economy collapses, And they will not have any form of free trade with the united states.

3; Former states shall be required to pay for the use of US waters. This means if texas secedes and wants to use the mississippi river to trade with canada, They have to pay the United States for the right to ship on the river because it is considered sovereign US waters.

4; Former states shall have no right to federal munitions located in their state. All arms, military vehicles, missiles, and other military equipment belonging to the US shall be removed from the state. Any Interference in this process will be an act of war and will be met with full military force.

5; Any former state which has succeeded from the US Which wishes to return to the united states shall be required to hold territory status for a period of no less than 20 years prior to being allowed to apply for statehood. This shall include the same limitation and restrictions of other federal territories, Such as having no representatives on the electoral college, They're delegates to congress having no right to vote on bills, And other such restrictions.

No secession.

If a part of the country secedes then that means they gave up on the country. America as a whole and America needs to be fixed and not divided up.

Dicing it up into parts will just further destroy the country beyond what it already is.

 

[BlindBoo]

There Should be a constitutional amendment

I'm pretty sure that is the requirement since there is no mechanism in the Constitution today.

 

[Moonglow]

I believe that it's time to create a legal mechanism in the constitution that will allow for peaceful secession.

There Should be a constitutional amendment allowing for negotiations between a state and the federal government over possible secession.

Such amendment should include five requirements that are mandatory and not negotiable. Meaning that these things must happen in order for a state to secede.

1; All residents of a former state that claim citizenship in that state as a sovereign nation Shall be construed as to have renounced US citizenship. This means they lose all rights as US citizens and will be considered foreigners. If they wish to reclaim US citizenship later they will have to go through The naturalization process like any other foreigner.

2; The united states shall not give Military or economic aid to any former state that has seceded for a period of no less than ten years. Nor shall there be any trade Deal made between the united states and a former state during that period. Meaning that they are on their own if they are invaded, They are all their own if their economy collapses, And they will not have any form of free trade with the united states.

3; Former states shall be required to pay for the use of US waters. This means if texas secedes and wants to use the mississippi river to trade with canada, They have to pay the United States for the right to ship on the river because it is considered sovereign US waters.

4; Former states shall have no right to federal munitions located in their state. All arms, military vehicles, missiles, and other military equipment belonging to the US shall be removed from the state. Any Interference in this process will be an act of war and will be met with full military force.

5; Any former state which has succeeded from the US Which wishes to return to the united states shall be required to hold territory status for a period of no less than 20 years prior to being allowed to apply for statehood. This shall include the same limitation and restrictions of other federal territories, Such as having no representatives on the electoral college, They're delegates to congress having no right to vote on bills, And other such restrictions.

Make it easy on us and exile yer ass from the USA.