Its time to legalize secession.

[BlindBoo]

Actually no. When the supreme court ruled that states cannot secede. They stated that states cannot secede on their own without approval, But That they could secede With the approval of the other states.

The reason I suggested a constitutional amendment, Is to create certain requirements that would be mandatory for any legal secession. A state can technically secede if the other states choose to allow it but I want to see them having to do certain things and give certain concessions fore it is allowed, which is why I suggested adding those requirements to the constitution.

Again, there is no Constitutional mechanism for a nation wide vote of the States to allow succession. To make such a structural change would require an Amendment.

 

[martybegan]

Any time I hear about secession, I Google how much that state receives from the federal gov't. Politicians will flip-flop on issues, but never on money.

The thing is those States could then access the money their citizens send to the federal government themselves.

 

[martybegan]

Again, there is no Constitutional mechanism for a nation wide vote of the States to allow succession. To make such a structural change would require an Amendment.

If a State or States leave and the remaining States and the federal government don't care or actually welcome it, there would be no need for an amendment, and even if there was, the remaining States could probably muster the votes to pass it.

Amendments weren't needed to admit States.

 

[Zincwarrior]

Federal land such as national parks would be Transferred to state ownership.
Military property would be emptied out of all equipment and that equipment would be relocated.
Things that can't easily be relocated such as nasa Could make a a deal to continue operating until new facilities can be constructed outside of the state. Federal roads located in the date would be transferred to state ownership, But Citizens of states that seated would not be allowed to use them to drive into the United States without a Visa and checkpoint would be constructed to an. Ensure this.

translation: fever dream of stupid by a Russobot.

 

[BlindBoo]

If a State or States leave and the remaining States and the federal government don't care or actually welcome it, there would be no need for an amendment, and even if there was, the remaining States could probably muster the votes to pass it.

Amendments weren't needed to admit States.

The first clause of Article IV, Section 3 authorizes Congress to admit new states into the union. It is sometimes called the Admissions Clause, the Admission Clause, or the New States Clause.1

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constitution.congress.gov

Therefore a new Constitutional Amendment is not needed to admit a new state.

 

[martybegan]

The first clause of Article IV, Section 3 authorizes Congress to admit new states into the union. It is sometimes called the Admissions Clause, the Admission Clause, or the New States Clause.1

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constitution.congress.gov

Therefore a new Constitutional Amendment is not needed to admit a new state.

Agreed. But just because there is no procedure for a State leaving, doesn't mean secession cannot happen if both sides agree to it. (actually all 3 sides, the leaving states, the staying states, and the federal government).

The Civil war only showed unilateral secession cannot happen without a fight.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Agreed. But just because there is no procedure for a State leaving, doesn't mean secession cannot happen if both sides agree to it. (actually all 3 sides, the leaving states, the staying states, and the federal government).

The Civil war only showed unilateral secession cannot happen without a fight.

Just MHO, and this might just be terminology, but the Congress would be the "staying states" since they are elected by the States population for Congressional districts (Representatives) and the State (Senators). The federal government would be the Executive Branch embodied in the President.

WW

 

[martybegan]

Just MHO, and this might just be terminology, but the Congress would be the "staying states" since they are elected by the States population for Congressional districts (Representatives) and the State (Senators). The federal government would be the Executive Branch embodied in the President.

WW

if we get to the point that this actually becomes reality instead of theory, The people in congress might be more loyal to the federal government than to the States they come from.

 

[WorldWatcher]

if we get to the point that this actually becomes reality instead of theory, The people in congress might be more loyal to the federal government than to the States they come from.

Ya, I don't think we will ever get to that point where reasonable people get to decide.

But, I will say that if a State can be admitted via an application to Congress and it being signed by the President into law (upon application of the prospective state of court) then it make sense for the process to work in reverse.

Now that doesn't mean that some "injured" party won't bring suit through the Judicial Branch to try to overturn the will of the requesting State and the Congress. But is a different issue, that the court will have to decide.

WW

 

[martybegan]

Ya, I don't think we will ever get to that point where reasonable people get to decide.

But, I will say that if a State can be admitted via an application to Congress and it being signed by the President into law (upon application of the prospective state of court) then it make sense for the process to work in reverse.

Now that doesn't mean that some "injured" party won't bring suit through the Judicial Branch to try to overturn the will of the requesting State and the Congress. But is a different issue, that the court will have to decide.

WW

or as with the Civil War it comes down to a fight.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

Hawaii already declared that it does not recognize the Constitution and is not bound by its provisions. Now what?

 

[there4eyeM]

Hawaii already declared that it does not recognize the Constitution and is not bound by its provisions. Now what?

They are in error.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Texas could easily do it. They have the natural resources, ports, land. Alaska could also. Most that live there can subsist on their own. California, no, they're too subservient to the federal govt.

I don't think they have enough people.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

They are in error.

They will still operate independently. It's not like anyone is going to go to Hawaii and enforce the Second Amendment.

 

[Flash]

I believe that it's time to create a legal mechanism in the constitution that will allow for peaceful secession.

There Should be a constitutional amendment allowing for negotiations between a state and the federal government over possible secession.

Such amendment should include five requirements that are mandatory and not negotiable. Meaning that these things must happen in order for a state to secede.

1; All residents of a former state that claim citizenship in that state as a sovereign nation Shall be construed as to have renounced US citizenship. This means they lose all rights as US citizens and will be considered foreigners. If they wish to reclaim US citizenship later they will have to go through The naturalization process like any other foreigner.

2; The united states shall not give Military or economic aid to any former state that has seceded for a period of no less than ten years. Nor shall there be any trade Deal made between the united states and a former state during that period. Meaning that they are on their own if they are invaded, They are all their own if their economy collapses, And they will not have any form of free trade with the united states.

3; Former states shall be required to pay for the use of US waters. This means if texas secedes and wants to use the mississippi river to trade with canada, They have to pay the United States for the right to ship on the river because it is considered sovereign US waters.

4; Former states shall have no right to federal munitions located in their state. All arms, military vehicles, missiles, and other military equipment belonging to the US shall be removed from the state. Any Interference in this process will be an act of war and will be met with full military force.

5; Any former state which has succeeded from the US Which wishes to return to the united states shall be required to hold territory status for a period of no less than 20 years prior to being allowed to apply for statehood. This shall include the same limitation and restrictions of other federal territories, Such as having no representatives on the electoral college, They're delegates to congress having no right to vote on bills, And other such restrictions.

Secession has always been legal. The Union is not a suicide pact.

The shits in the Union can make all the claims they want and even get a Supreme Court Justice to say it is not legal but that doesn't mean anything.

 

[Zincwarrior]

Secession has always been legal. The Union is not a suicide pact.

The shits in the Union can make all the claims they want and even get a Supreme Court Justice to say it is not legal but that doesn't mean anything.

You're right. Now please try it so everyone else can see how fast you getting carted off to prison.

 

[there4eyeM]

Everyone should note who calls for or encourages secession.

 

[Zincwarrior]

Everyone should note who calls for or encourages secession.

I am pretty sure there are detailed files.

 

[d0gbreath]

If Secession was legalized, we'd fall apart like the old USSR. You want to secede, you're going to have to fight for your independence.

 

[DGS49]

It is worth noting that Jefferson Davis was never prosecuted after the Civil War for treason or insurrection. That's pretty conspicuous, isn't it?

The reason was that the Attorney General was afraid that if he were convicted and appealed the case to the Supreme Court, the Court might just say that the South had the right to secede, which would make a lot of people look silly. And a lot of dead people pissed off.