Is it just me, or what?...

[The Rabbi]

If you had no TV, Radio, Newspaper, would you, or I, even be aware he was President?

The only fucking difference I can tell in my life in the past year has been wrenching my fucking knee when I slipped on ice last week.

I really don't blame Obama.

OK. I dont know what you do that you are so insulated.
In my little gun shop the first result was a panic buying of unprecedented proportions. This was followed by a scarcity of guns and ammunition that still hasn't quite sorted itself out. This was followed by a drop off in sales as my working-class customers are looking at layoffs or cuts in hours.
Yes, I blame Obama for all of it.

First: My fucking knee fucking hurts.

Second: You think Obama controls the Gun Market? How do you know there wasn't a Crime Wave in the neighborhood? Or someone saw a Grizzlie Bear? Or someone saw an Alien?

Sorry about your knee. Try ice.

Second, Obama doesn't control the gun market. Nor does he control any other market. But he does have influence over the entire American economy. And every other gun shop experienced exactlyt he same thing all across the country.
And maybe the alien they saw was Obama getting sworn in.

 

[amrchaos]

The economy? I blame Bush
Iraq? I blame Bush
Afghanistan? Its now Obama's
Healthcare? Obama
Climate Legislation? Obama
Guantanamo? I blame Bush

The economy. I'll blame Bush too only to the extent that he didn't mobilize public opinion to get the godamn thing fixed. The dems had their cash cows and liked Fannie & Freddie just as they were...right up to the point of bankruptcy. Wall Street went berzerk with no regulation. How the fuck could Bernie Madoff brag about being the next head of the SEC??? No one was driving the bus and it showed.

Iraq? blame Bush. How come the dems whined when Bush-1 didn't get rid of Saddam at Gulf-1? Then they whine when Bush-2 gets rid of Saddam during Gulf-2. Most of us like the ME a lot better w/o Saddam and his larvae there.

Afghanistan? Its now Obama's. Its still a puss case. Better off using MOABs or neutrons and bailing. It would be cheaper.

Healthcare? Obama. Mega-puss case. He'll be long gone before any of his garbage policies kick-in. Hopefully they can short-circuit UHC & C+T before they kick-in.

Climate Legislation? Obama
Never happen. Cost too many jobs and money we don't have.

Guantanamo? I blame Bush
Keep the MFs there.....or Illinois...they need the work. WTF is the diff where we stockpile the SNs????? (what blame??)

Concerning Iraq---there was no need to getting rid of Saddam in terms of American Interests. The question is why the rush to get rid of Saddam and the need for a second war? Oh yeah, "Those who shoot their shadows" was jumping up and down and fabricating the threat.

By invading Iraq the second time, all that was accomplished was proving Bush I correct on the reasons to avoid such a conflict.

 

[amrchaos]

And the results of Obama's presidency have been disaster.

What results?

Not just anyone can win a Nobel Peace Prize.

Sure they can. I received two in Christmas cards this year, and you see ads for them all over the place. This place in Rockwall TX is offering one free with every oil change:

But--Obama got his for free!! Where can I get one for doing nothing!?

 

[MaggieMae]

Obama has been a major disappointment.

In a lot of ways, yes. But with all the shit on his plate, I wonder who could have done any better.

Someone with more experience than Obama could have done better, which includes everyone who ran in the primaries. Obama is going to be signing some of the worst legislation in history very soon: Health care. It will raise rates for everyone and cost the country trillions. It could prove to be the final nail in the coffin which bankrupts our country for good. He also sent 30,000 troops to Afghanistan just before accepting a Nobel Peace Prize which he did absolutely nothing to earn. There's plenty more major screw-ups to list, but you get the idea. Even McCain could have done better.

McCain's plan would [have]:

. Give a health insurance tax credit of up to $5,000 for couples and families and $2,500 for individuals. Those who choose to buy insurance on their own would be able to use the credit to pay for their health coverage, with payment going directly from the government to the insurance company. Nobody would be required to buy insurance for themselves or their children, and employers large or small would not be required to offer health insurance as a benefit.
All those tax credits would deplete the treasury even further than the Bush tax cuts already have. At the time of the campaign, little was being discussed by either candidate about providing health care cost relief AND making it deficit friendly.

. Tax the value of employer-provided health benefits. Employees would pay federal income taxes (but not Social Security or Medicare payroll taxes) on the value of those benefits. The tax credit would offset those taxes. Companies would not be taxed.
Small businesses already can't afford employer-provided health benefits, let alone endure an added tax. That problem already existed during the campaign, as small businesses by dropping their health insurance coverage were gradually adding to the problem of more and more people going without.

. Expand health savings accounts so that any money left over from the tax credit could be put into such an account, where it could be used for approved medical expenses.
Of course only those who have extra money can afford to even consider a health care savings account. And, again, even more tax credits.

. Allow the sale and purchase of insurance across state lines. No federal standards would be imposed, and insurance companies would not be required to cover preexisting conditions.

. Expand high-risk pools that exist in many states to cover those who have been denied coverage or have high-cost health issues. Some financial assistance would be given to low-income people in such pools.
"Some" financial assistance was not defined of course. Such politices would necessarily include super high deductibles.

 

[uscitizen]

I just get tired of the BOOOOOSH is no longer president rhetoric from the right so I generally do not mention Bush. I only blame things on FDR, Carter and Clinton.

 

[MaggieMae]

Obama has been a major disappointment.

In a lot of ways, yes. But with all the shit on his plate, I wonder who could have done any better.

Anyone with a brain or political experience.

Riddle me this; Obama during the campaign used to say ad nauseum "Someone needs to tell Bush that when you're in a hole you need to stop diggin"

The US economy generally ran in 14-year cycles, with periodic recessions and growth cycles. Since so many factories were moved overseas employment is not as assured as in years past. Obama can't bring back those factories, he'd need to build new ones. I don't see any Obama policies geared to create wealth or grow jobs. Bernanke keep talking about a "jobless recovery" which is moronic, since a recovery is measured by job growth.

Can you admit that Cap+Trade will kill jobs with high utility rates? Also, that he is pushing "wish-list" agenda items like UHC instead of policies that will create jobs ASAP. UHC won't take effect for 5 - 10 years!! Obama ignores medicare and Social Security going bankrupt. He only seems intent on setting up kickback schemes.

Your last two paragraphs are related. OF COURSE many "old" manufacturing jobs will not return, and that is why an energetic (pun intended) alternative energy bill is so badly needed, in order to create jobs in the new private sector industries. The Spain analysis was debunked when it was discovered their measurements included jobs that would have been lost in any event due to their own economic downturn and were not as a result of lack of green jobs to replace the old ones.

Also, cap and trade will die for reasons other than high utility bills. That has also been debunked also because inaccurate measurements were used. Start reading here at "What About My Bill?" I tried to copy the excerpt but got bounced off the Internet by IE three times, so I'm not going to try again.

Cap and Trade: What It Will Cost You - CBS MoneyWatch.com

 

[MaggieMae]

I am still trying to figure out what capNtrade actually is.

Do we maintain such restrictions on foreign goods--that is if they do not meet said restrictions, they cannot sell their products here? If so, then is it no more than a form of BACK DOOR PROTECTIONISM?

Just when I started to look at the benefits of a Universal currency(a one world currency, for the conspiracy nuts out there), this thing pops up.

Oh well. Looks like the Libertarian Isolationists have a friend in the Libs, although this is not how the LiberIs probably wish to pursue their concepts of Protectionism.

Here is the wiki version. Emissions trading - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Its a scam no matter how you look at it. Its not like you buy pounds of baloney or a pizza and take it home. $billions to be scammed...from the CHUMPS.

The principle itself isn't an intended scam, but I agree that such a program would be wide open for major loopholes, fraud and corruption. Which is why it will never pass, as is. An energy bill will undoubtedly pass at some point, but not with that clause in it.

 

[MaggieMae]

The economy? I blame Bush
Iraq? I blame Bush
Afghanistan? Its now Obama's
Healthcare? Obama
Climate Legislation? Obama
Guantanamo? I blame Bush

The economy. I'll blame Bush too only to the extent that he didn't mobilize public opinion to get the godamn thing fixed. The dems had their cash cows and liked Fannie & Freddie just as they were...right up to the point of bankruptcy. Wall Street went berzerk with no regulation. How the fuck could Bernie Madoff brag about being the next head of the SEC??? No one was driving the bus and it showed.

Iraq? blame Bush. How come the dems whined when Bush-1 didn't get rid of Saddam at Gulf-1? Then they whine when Bush-2 gets rid of Saddam during Gulf-2. Most of us like the ME a lot better w/o Saddam and his larvae there.

Afghanistan? Its now Obama's. Its still a puss case. Better off using MOABs or neutrons and bailing. It would be cheaper.

Healthcare? Obama. Mega-puss case. He'll be long gone before any of his garbage policies kick-in. Hopefully they can short-circuit UHC & C+T before they kick-in.

Climate Legislation? Obama
Never happen. Cost too many jobs and money we don't have.

Guantanamo? I blame Bush
Keep the MFs there.....or Illinois...they need the work. WTF is the diff where we stockpile the SNs????? (what blame??)

Re Iraq only, if Saddam Hussein was the sole reason, then why didn't we declare victory THEN and come home? Sorry, but the Iraq problem had little to do with Saddam Hussein.

 

[Claudette]

And the results of Obama's presidency have been disaster.

What results?

Not just anyone can win a Nobel Peace Prize.

Sure they can. I received two in Christmas cards this year, and you see ads for them all over the place. This place in Rockwall TX is offering one free with every oil change:

Good one.

Don't forget, OL'BO gave himself a B+ on his first year in office. I think it was wishful thinking.

Wonder how he'll grade himself in 2010?????

 

[Foxfyre]

What results?

Not just anyone can win a Nobel Peace Prize.

Sure they can. I received two in Christmas cards this year, and you see ads for them all over the place. This place in Rockwall TX is offering one free with every oil change:

But--Obama got his for free!! Where can I get one for doing nothing!?

He didn't exactly get it for doing nothing. He spent a lot of taxpayer money going over there to go get it. And he got it apparently for being really good with a teleprompter and knowing a lot of words that are high sounding to anti-American Europeans.

So you'll probably have to do something, but here. This is pretty close to free:

 

[MaggieMae]

The economy? I blame Bush
Iraq? I blame Bush
Afghanistan? Its now Obama's
Healthcare? Obama
Climate Legislation? Obama
Guantanamo? I blame Bush

OK. So what has Obama done in the nearly one year he's been in office to change of that or make it better?
Tool.

Thanks for asking

The economy- a major accomplishment for Obama. He assumed office in the midst of the worst recession in seventy years. Since Obama....54% increase in stock market, 27% increase in home sales, GDP up, interest ratesl low, inflation low. Jobs? Did you say jobs? A year ago we were losing 700,000 jobs a month. Last month 11,000 jobs...major improvement

Iraq- President Obama has been drawing down forces and moved out of the hot zones. Casualties are down

Afghanistan- Obama has tripled troop strength and has authorized more drone strikes on terrorist targets than Bush did in eight years

Healthcare- President Obama now has the votes to pass the first comprehensive healthcare program in US History. Presidents since Truman have been trying to accomplish what Obama has done in one year

Climate Change_ President Obama personally negotiated the first major global pact in history. He brought together leaders from around the world and laid the groundwork for future discussions

They don't want excuses, RW. They want to blame someone, and Obama happens to be the target, of course. I remain constantly amazed at how little the average person actually grasps of what has been going on in this country for decades, leading up to the mess we're in today. There are a plethora of yesterday's problems that are impossible to solve in one year.

That said, I DO fault Obama for several things.

First, I think he should have nudged Congress toward the trigger option on health care which would have signaled a willingness for true bipartisanship AND it wouldn't be such a scary deficit UNfriendly bill such as being debated now. At least he would have gotten through something on health care after 40 years of promises, and then proceed to try to make it even better. I'm still optimistic that the trigger option is what will be the final resolution.

Second, I think he relies too heavily on the best-case-scenario projections given to him by his economic advisors, and too little on the hands-on experience of business leaders. While I think the TARP loans were absolutely necessary, the favoritism displayed by Geithner to the same Wall Street giants that caused the problem in the first place has dragged on to the point that they are now positioned to create another bubble (which other economists predicted and whose analyses were dismissed). I've said all along that Geithner was a poor choice for that job.

Finally, I also think that Obama listens too much to Rahm Emanuel, who is a true liberal, and who has the President's ear more than any other advisor. He has extremely strong influence over Congress's actions, a lobbyist in his own right, whereas he should be limited to liaison between the two branches, period, and allow Obama to make up his own mind after consulting with the respective advisors on any given issue. Emanuel is another one that I thought was a poor choice because he's doing the exact same thing that I predicted he would do. You can't strong-arm Congress in one ideological direction and expect to continue to win elections. Tom DeLay found that out the hard way.

 

[MaggieMae]

And the results of Obama's presidency have been disaster.

What results?

Not just anyone can win a Nobel Peace Prize.

Oh yeah, I forgot to add that one to my own list. I think Obama should have declined the Nobel Peace Prize (at this time).

 

[MaggieMae]

Is it just me, or what? I don't believe I am seeing everything being blamed on Bush the way that I did when I first joined up with this board. Have people grown weary, became more informed, or just seem to be moving away from the trend. What's up? I'm curious.

When your savior makes the Bush years look like a decade of rationality, one tends to keep quiet.

All that proves is that people like you weren't paying attention.

 

[MaggieMae]

And the results of Obama's presidency have been disaster.

What results?

Not just anyone can win a Nobel Peace Prize.

Sure they can. I received two in Christmas cards this year, and you see ads for them all over the place. This place in Rockwall TX is offering one free with every oil change:

Texas...no surprises there. When will you secede? Soon, please?

 

[Foxfyre]

The economy? I blame Bush
Iraq? I blame Bush
Afghanistan? Its now Obama's
Healthcare? Obama
Climate Legislation? Obama
Guantanamo? I blame Bush

The economy. I'll blame Bush too only to the extent that he didn't mobilize public opinion to get the godamn thing fixed. The dems had their cash cows and liked Fannie & Freddie just as they were...right up to the point of bankruptcy. Wall Street went berzerk with no regulation. How the fuck could Bernie Madoff brag about being the next head of the SEC??? No one was driving the bus and it showed.

Iraq? blame Bush. How come the dems whined when Bush-1 didn't get rid of Saddam at Gulf-1? Then they whine when Bush-2 gets rid of Saddam during Gulf-2. Most of us like the ME a lot better w/o Saddam and his larvae there.

Afghanistan? Its now Obama's. Its still a puss case. Better off using MOABs or neutrons and bailing. It would be cheaper.

Healthcare? Obama. Mega-puss case. He'll be long gone before any of his garbage policies kick-in. Hopefully they can short-circuit UHC & C+T before they kick-in.

Climate Legislation? Obama
Never happen. Cost too many jobs and money we don't have.

Guantanamo? I blame Bush
Keep the MFs there.....or Illinois...they need the work. WTF is the diff where we stockpile the SNs????? (what blame??)

Re Iraq only, if Saddam Hussein was the sole reason, then why didn't we declare victory THEN and come home? Sorry, but the Iraq problem had little to do with Saddam Hussein.

Saddam was the whole reason for invading Iraq. Once he was removed from power, then the mssion changed to prevent other devils from filling the void left by Saddam's departure.

 

[MaggieMae]

Obama has been a major disappointment.

In a lot of ways, yes. But with all the shit on his plate, I wonder who could have done any better.

this leaves me wondering where this thought originated. How will we ever know what could have and would have been done different, better or otherwise since so many people went out and voted blindly for a man that they didn't know, didn't want to know, didn't care to know...and believed EVERYTHING he said just because he was different. You get what you ask for in this case...and the results are the price you pay.

We will NEVER know what could have been. We will never know if America had a chance to come back.

A lot of people voted for him because they were simply sick of the Republicans spending us into oblivion. Bush never vetoed a spending bill. Not one. If you go to the Taxpayers for Common Sense website, they do a complete analysis of all the earmarks and spending from previous years (they're the ones that publish the annual "Pig Book).

A lot of black people voted for him because of his race.

A lot of young people voted for him because he represented change from the systemic old white guy image of those who make all the rules.

But a lot of people like me voted for him (actually Biden was the one I supported before he dropped out) because I think domestic issues had been put on the back burner far too long in favor of monumental amounts of OUR money going to support "peace and harmony" in other worlds which don't seem to want it anyway. And I'm not just talking about Iraq. I voted for Obama because I knew he would improve our dismal education system, hopefully at least pulling this country up to the level where we can compete globally for the same job-producing disciplines and not have to import the talent we need. NCLB didn't go anywhere near far enough, and it remains a program that is either level-funded year after year or states get cut from federal funding if they dare to come up with a plan that's actually better than NCLB. Where's the logic in that?

I could go on about WHY I chose Obama (or ANY Democrat over a Republican this cycle), but I'm specifically speaking about issues that arose during the campaign. Very few people saw the total economic breakdown (on a global level, by the way), so that was not discussed by any candidate on a massive level. Thereafter, Obama had a duty to at least try to bring into action his major campaign promises, just as ANY new president will do. So he has had a delicate balance to contend with. Was he naive about lobbyists? Was he naive about promoting bipartisanship? Yes, he was. So I guess the question remains, when will ANY president attempt to deal with those last to very real problems? Does any president really have much control over which way major new policy will go?

 

[MaggieMae]

Obama has been a major disappointment.

If you had no TV, Radio, Newspaper, would you, or I, even be aware he was President?

The only fucking difference I can tell in my life in the past year has been wrenching my fucking knee when I slipped on ice last week.

I really don't blame Obama.

I think the difference is that people THINK they are becoming informed because they tend to believe everything the Internet tells them. On the one hand, I'm happy that younger people seem to want to become more involved in what happens in Washington, but on the other hand, many are sadly far too optimistic that the whole sad state of affairs can be changed simply by changing who heads up the party.

 

[Foxfyre]

OK. So what has Obama done in the nearly one year he's been in office to change of that or make it better?
Tool.

Thanks for asking

The economy- a major accomplishment for Obama. He assumed office in the midst of the worst recession in seventy years. Since Obama....54% increase in stock market, 27% increase in home sales, GDP up, interest ratesl low, inflation low. Jobs? Did you say jobs? A year ago we were losing 700,000 jobs a month. Last month 11,000 jobs...major improvement

Numbers produced by spending taxpayer money that we don't have should not be used as 'accomplishments'. I give Obama a D minus on the economy.

Iraq- President Obama has been drawing down forces and moved out of the hot zones. Casualties are down

Given the mid-year upsurge in casualties in Iraq, it is too soon to say whether Obama has called it right or not, but I have no serious problem with what he has been doing in Iraq other than telegraphing his intentions to the enemy which I think is utter stupidity.

Afghanistan- Obama has tripled troop strength and has authorized more drone strikes on terrorist targets than Bush did in eight years

Again its too early to say whether Obama's policy in Afghanistan has produced good results. While giving utmost urgency to what most Americans deem unwise spending and legislation in America, he dragged his feet for an unconscionably long time before making any decision re Afghanistan.

Healthcare- President Obama now has the votes to pass the first comprehensive healthcare program in US History. Presidents since Truman have been trying to accomplish what Obama has done in one year

If only that healthcare program was true reform that would do good things for Americans and the economy instead of placating big government, socialist interests.

Climate Change_ President Obama personally negotiated the first major global pact in history. He brought together leaders from around the world and laid the groundwork for future discussions.

Again it would be wonderful if the policy being pushed was applauded by economists and business leaders who are the backbone of free enterprise and the economy. Instead he leans on what most Americans are coming to understand as myth, fraud, and international manipulation intended to take power from the people and concentrate it with a few who may or may not know what they are doing and/or who may or may not give a tinker's dam about freedom, opportunity, and/or prosperity.

They don't want excuses, RW. They want to blame someone, and Obama happens to be the target, of course. I remain constantly amazed at how little the average person actually grasps of what has been going on in this country for decades, leading up to the mess we're in today. There are a plethora of yesterday's problems that are impossible to solve in one year.

It is true that problems that have been decades in the making cannot be solved in a single year or even in a few years. Sometimes we just have to reverse the process that created them and let them slowly but certainly correct themselves. Obama isn't doing that, however, and he ran for and won the U.S. Presidency. He is the one to blame for decisions that he does or does not make as President.

That said, I DO fault Obama for several things.

First, I think he should have nudged Congress toward the trigger option on health care which would have signaled a willingness for true bipartisanship AND it wouldn't be such a scary deficit UNfriendly bill such as being debated now. At least he would have gotten through something on health care after 40 years of promises, and then proceed to try to make it even better. I'm still optimistic that the trigger option is what will be the final resolution.

I would have a lot more respect for Obama and the Democrats in their healthcare reform if they had included ANY of the true reform initiatives that were recommended to them. They didn't.

Second, I think he relies too heavily on the best-case-scenario projections given to him by his economic advisors, and too little on the hands-on experience of business leaders. While I think the TARP loans were absolutely necessary, the favoritism displayed by Geithner to the same Wall Street giants that caused the problem in the first place has dragged on to the point that they are now positioned to create another bubble (which other economists predicted and whose analyses were dismissed). I've said all along that Geithner was a poor choice for that job.

Agreed here. But he wouldn't be the first President to be clueless about the ramifications of what his advisors recommend to him.

Finally, I also think that Obama listens too much to Rahm Emanuel, who is a true liberal, and who has the President's ear more than any other advisor. He has extremely strong influence over Congress's actions, a lobbyist in his own right, whereas he should be limited to liaison between the two branches, period, and allow Obama to make up his own mind after consulting with the respective advisors on any given issue. Emanuel is another one that I thought was a poor choice because he's doing the exact same thing that I predicted he would do. You can't strong-arm Congress in one ideological direction and expect to continue to win elections. Tom DeLay found that out the hard way.

I don't know if he is really calling any of the shots--I have a growing sense of forboding that he may be little more than a puppet manipulated by unseen but stronger forces--Obama has embraced Rahm as he has embraced the truly radical, extremist, and Marxist types that he surrounds himself with--in fact has surrounded himself with as he climbed the ladder to power. I wish I had confidence that Obama had an original thought or that he was actually committed to making America a better place to live. With just eleven month's track record, I have no such confidence.

 

[MaggieMae]

I take exception to that. America is still a great country peopled by great people. A change in policy and a change in leadership and we will see America's greatness come out again. The country is much bigger than Barak Insane Obama, no matter what he thinks.

There is a part of me that agrees with you, but there is a part of me that is grounded in the mindset and philosophy of our Founders and that warned us that apathy, complacency, and failure to defend our rights that were intended to be protected by the Constitution would be our undoing.

The problem did not originate with Barack Obama. It began with the first unchallenged act of using the people's money to dispense favors and largesse. Once we accepted that those in government would have ability to increase their own prestige, power, authority, and fortune by favoring targeted constituencies, it has been slowly unraveling.

Barack Obama is not the cause of this, but is evidence of how badly we have conceded the basic values that made America the glorious and shining experiment that it has been. He is the poster child for government that uses power of selective benevolence to take away freedom rather than protecting it. He is not interested in American values of borders, language, and culture. I believe he is interested in one world government of complete authority and harbors illusions of grandeur that he is the chosen one to lead it.

I do not believe that we have yet reached the point of no return. But I do believe that if we don't wake up, dig in our heels, and demand the America of the Constitution, we will lose America as we have known it.

You're always very articulate in expressing your opinions, and you certainly drive home certain points. But that one is pure bullshit. Where is your evidence of such a conspiracy?

 

[MaggieMae]

Obama has been a major disappointment.

If you had no TV, Radio, Newspaper, would you, or I, even be aware he was President?

The only fucking difference I can tell in my life in the past year has been wrenching my fucking knee when I slipped on ice last week.

I really don't blame Obama.

OK. I dont know what you do that you are so insulated.
In my little gun shop the first result was a panic buying of unprecedented proportions. This was followed by a scarcity of guns and ammunition that still hasn't quite sorted itself out. This was followed by a drop off in sales as my working-class customers are looking at layoffs or cuts in hours.
Yes, I blame Obama for all of it.

That one is so easy to figure out it's mind-boggling that you haven't yet. There has been a 400% increase in the number of threats on Obama's life. The radical right is gearing up to storm the White House as we type, and of course they want to be armed. They won't succeed, but they're everywhere and they are organized. Hello?