In-Depth Fortune Story on "Fast & Furious" Paints Totally Different Picture Than Issa

[The T]

So we blindly believe one report while throwing out all others.

The only people who are "blindly believing" anything around here are the right-wingers who have been making shit up about this investigation for months now, without any definitive proof of anything.

For instance, I don't blindly believe the Fortune report, but then, I certainly don't blindly believe the CBS story, which in the end is the testimony of one guy, either.

And I certainly don't believe all the right-wing spin that's been put on the story.

After all, according to them, there's a new scandal hidden in every tiny minute action this administration takes.

Hell, according to them removing cutlery from a dinner event that the president is attending is a scandal.

Quoting evidence presented in the CBS investigation is now right wing spin?

Holy shit. And CBS has far more evidence than just the testimoney of "one guy". Good grief.

Maybe SeeBS should re-hire Dan Blather since LWC thinks thier Right Wing?

 

[Richard-H]

Looks like this whole Fast & Furious thing is eventually going to blow up the the face of the congressional Repugs, the NRA and the state of Arizona.

It may take some time, but when the American people come to understand what Fast & Furious really was and was not, it'll make the wingnuts look like the political hacks that they really are.

That federal agent was killed because of Arizona state law, not becuase of Fast & Furious.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Fast and Frivolous...sounds like a Tea Dance Party for Conservative Gays

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Its disturbing when partisan hacks are willing to give politicians an automatic pass.We have a dead officer but that just doesn't matter,they are on "my team".

oh god, "we have a dead officer' -- can you be anymore pathetic?

stop hiding behind the death of a law enforcement officer you did not know.

christ you people are sick!

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

According to some people here, expecting our government officials to tell the truth and act in accordance with the law is acting "like a wingnut".

proof! stop making unfounded accusations.

 

[Vast LWC]

So we blindly believe one report while throwing out all others.

The only people who are "blindly believing" anything around here are the right-wingers who have been making shit up about this investigation for months now, without any definitive proof of anything.

For instance, I don't blindly believe the Fortune report, but then, I certainly don't blindly believe the CBS story, which in the end is the testimony of one guy, either.

And I certainly don't believe all the right-wing spin that's been put on the story.

After all, according to them, there's a new scandal hidden in every tiny minute action this administration takes.

Hell, according to them removing cutlery from a dinner event that the president is attending is a scandal.

Quoting evidence presented in the CBS investigation is now right wing spin?

Holy shit. And CBS has far more evidence than just the testimoney of "one guy". Good grief.

If they had just quoted the story, then there wouldn't have been "spin".

But they didn't just quote the story. They ran with it, exaggerated it, and presented all kinds of conspiracy theories about it.

And yes, that is, by definition, spin.

 

[Vast LWC]

Maybe SeeBS should re-hire Dan Blather since LWC thinks thier Right Wing?

Intentionally mis-quoting me again T?

Show me exactly where I said CBS is "right-wing".

 

[Vast LWC]

Maybe they do.

What did Issa do before coming to congress? Well let's see. He stole a Maserati. He got caught with an unlicensed gun. He started a car alarm business (big surprise here). He's gotten accused of torching his own business. He got elected to the house of Representives.

Good record..there.

Well I guess he's on the right committee. Apparently he knows a lot about crime...

 

[rdean]

Yea I am sure Fortune knows so much more than Issa does.


And if nothing bad is happening, why wouldn't the Hussein and Holder just give them the documents they want?

Issa has a political objective. Why won't he call the people who started the program to testify?

 

[Sallow]

Maybe they do.

What did Issa do before coming to congress? Well let's see. He stole a Maserati. He got caught with an unlicensed gun. He started a car alarm business (big surprise here). He's gotten accused of torching his own business. He got elected to the house of Representives.

Good record..there.

Well I guess he's on the right committee. Apparently he knows a lot about crime...

Generally..if you steal stuff..you can't become a cop.

True story.

 

[rdean]

Maybe they do.

What did Issa do before coming to congress? Well let's see. He stole a Maserati. He got caught with an unlicensed gun. He started a car alarm business (big surprise here). He's gotten accused of torching his own business. He got elected to the house of Representives.

Good record..there.

Well I guess he's on the right committee. Apparently he knows a lot about crime...

I suspect among the Republican leadership, he's not alone. The base just doesn't care. They forgive anyone for anything as long as they toe the party line and they aren't black.

 

[Vast LWC]

Notice the very small number of right-wingers posting in this thread...

Not surprising really.

 

[BlindBoo]

According to some people here, expecting our government officials to tell the truth and act in accordance with the law is acting "like a wingnut".

'bout time someone summarized the situation like Zander did.. Think you'll see a validation of his observation when and if a contempt vote is taken.. Be sure to look at the BIPARTISIAN participation...


I don't care CRAP about the politics. I want to know WHO is gonna get fired and WHEN youre gonna DO IT!!!!!

If we need more documents to determine that --- RAID the f'ing Justice Dept for them....

I think we should fire Issa for trying to use the ATF agents death for partisan political gain. What a scumbag.

Impeach Issa

 

[CrusaderFrank]

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Its disturbing when partisan hacks are willing to give politicians an automatic pass.We have a dead officer but that just doesn't matter,they are on "my team".

oh god, "we have a dead officer' -- can you be anymore pathetic?

stop hiding behind the death of a law enforcement officer you did not know.

christ you people are sick!

According to some people here, expecting our government officials to tell the truth and act in accordance with the law is acting "like a wingnut".

'bout time someone summarized the situation like Zander did.. Think you'll see a validation of his observation when and if a contempt vote is taken.. Be sure to look at the BIPARTISIAN participation...


I don't care CRAP about the politics. I want to know WHO is gonna get fired and WHEN youre gonna DO IT!!!!!

If we need more documents to determine that --- RAID the f'ing Justice Dept for them....

I think we should fire Issa for trying to use the ATF agents death for partisan political gain. What a scumbag.

Impeach Issa

hear, hear...

 

[flacaltenn]

'bout time someone summarized the situation like Zander did..

I don't care CRAP about the politics. I want to know WHO is gonna get fired and WHEN youre gonna DO IT!!!!!

If we need more documents to determine that --- RAID the f'ing Justice Dept for them....

I would suggest you read the article that is the subject of the thread.

If what's written there is even half true, you're going to be sorely disappointed.

OK -- I read it.. It's less than "half true".. How do I know? Because they convieniently leave out every detail that contradicts their story.. For instance from the Fortune story cited in the OP..

Ten days after the meeting with Hurley, a Saturday, Jaime Avila, a transient, admitted methamphetamine user, bought three WASR-10 rifles at the Lone Wolf Trading Company in Glendale, Ariz. The next day, a helpful Lone Wolf employee faxed Avila's purchase form to ATF to flag the suspicious activity. It was the Martin Luther King Jr. holiday weekend, so the agents didn't receive the fax until Tuesday, according to a contemporaneous case report. By that time, the legally purchased guns had been gone for three days. The agents had never seen the weapons and had no chance to seize them. But they entered the serial numbers into their gun database. Two of these were later recovered at Brian Terry's murder scene.

Well FORTUNE'S story is that it's just loose wing-nut gun sellers running circles around the ATF.. Not true. The "helpful Lone Wolf employee" turns out is the owner who was in PREVIOUS CONTACT with the ATF about the plan.. In fact, the Lone Wolf owner (Howard) was RECORDED conversing with the ATF about the whole set-up with the ATF CONFIRMING previous of the sale..

Secret recordings raise new questions in ATF 'Gunwalker' operation - CBS News Investigates - CBS News

The tapes were recorded approximately mid-March 2011 by the primary gun dealer cooperating with ATF in its "Fast and Furious" operation: Andre Howard, owner of Lone Wolf Trading Company in Glendale, Arizona. He's talking with the lead case ATF case agent Hope MacAllister.

The tapes have been turned over to Congressional investigators and the Inspector General.

As CBS News first reported last February, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives allegedly allowed thousands of weapons to "walk" onto the streets without interdiction into the hands of suspected traffickers for Mexican drug cartels in its operation "Fast and Furious."

The conversations refer to a third weapon recovered at the murder scene of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry.

The tapes were recorded approximately mid-March 2011 by the primary gun dealer cooperating with ATF in its "Fast and Furious" operation: Andre Howard, owner of Lone Wolf Trading Company in Glendale, Arizona. He's talking with the lead case ATF case agent Hope MacAllister.

So FORTUNE WANTS the story to be about "rogue" gun dealers -- but it's not..

You have an agent CONFIRMING the guns were let loose ON PURPOSE.
You have the Justice Dept confirming this basic truth.
And you have a gun dealer who did NOTHING WRONG except cooperate with a rogue ATF and Justice Dept.

Like I said..

I don't care CRAP about the politics. I want to know WHO is gonna get fired and WHEN youre gonna DO IT!!!!!

If that includes any "rogue" gun dealers that Fortune conjurs up with no names or evidence, arrest them too.. You lefties are CORRECT about one thing. We're ALL gonna be dissapointed when no one gets punished --- AGAIN..

 

[Vast LWC]

(Picture that is unrelated to the conversation)

Yeah, Frank, that has nothing to do with the conversation we are having here.

The article that was posted has little to nothing to do with Wide Receiver.

Try and catch up with your talking points.

 

[Synthaholic]

Yea I am sure Fortune knows so much more than Issa does.


And if nothing bad is happening, why wouldn't the Hussein and Holder just give them the documents they want?

Because, you stupid POS, it would be illegal for Holder to turn over those documents.

 

[Vast LWC]

OK -- I read it.. It's less than "half true".. How do I know? Because they convieniently leave out every detail that contradicts their story.. For instance from the Fortune story cited in the OP..

Ten days after the meeting with Hurley, a Saturday, Jaime Avila, a transient, admitted methamphetamine user, bought three WASR-10 rifles at the Lone Wolf Trading Company in Glendale, Ariz. The next day, a helpful Lone Wolf employee faxed Avila's purchase form to ATF to flag the suspicious activity. It was the Martin Luther King Jr. holiday weekend, so the agents didn't receive the fax until Tuesday, according to a contemporaneous case report. By that time, the legally purchased guns had been gone for three days. The agents had never seen the weapons and had no chance to seize them. But they entered the serial numbers into their gun database. Two of these were later recovered at Brian Terry's murder scene.

Well FORTUNE'S story is that it's just loose wing-nut gun sellers running circles around the ATF.. Not true. The "helpful Lone Wolf employee" turns out is the owner who was in PREVIOUS CONTACT with the ATF about the plan.. In fact, the Lone Wolf owner (Howard) was RECORDED conversing with the ATF about the whole set-up with the ATF CONFIRMING previous of the sale..

Secret recordings raise new questions in ATF 'Gunwalker' operation - CBS News Investigates - CBS News

The tapes were recorded approximately mid-March 2011 by the primary gun dealer cooperating with ATF in its "Fast and Furious" operation: Andre Howard, owner of Lone Wolf Trading Company in Glendale, Arizona. He's talking with the lead case ATF case agent Hope MacAllister.

The tapes have been turned over to Congressional investigators and the Inspector General.

As CBS News first reported last February, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives allegedly allowed thousands of weapons to "walk" onto the streets without interdiction into the hands of suspected traffickers for Mexican drug cartels in its operation "Fast and Furious."

The conversations refer to a third weapon recovered at the murder scene of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry.

The tapes were recorded approximately mid-March 2011 by the primary gun dealer cooperating with ATF in its "Fast and Furious" operation: Andre Howard, owner of Lone Wolf Trading Company in Glendale, Arizona. He's talking with the lead case ATF case agent Hope MacAllister.

So FORTUNE WANTS the story to be about "rogue" gun dealers -- but it's not..

You have an agent CONFIRMING the guns were let loose ON PURPOSE.
You have the Justice Dept confirming this basic truth.
And you have a gun dealer who did NOTHING WRONG except cooperate with a rogue ATF and Justice Dept.

Like I said..

I don't care CRAP about the politics. I want to know WHO is gonna get fired and WHEN youre gonna DO IT!!!!!

If that includes any "rogue" gun dealers that Fortune conjurs up with no names or evidence, arrest them too.. You lefties are CORRECT about one thing. We're ALL gonna be dissapointed when no one gets punished --- AGAIN..

I listened to that tape, there's a link on the site, and it doesn't say anything of the sort.

Exactly what part of that tape has an agent admitting that a federal agent asked the gun dealer to sell those weapons to said individuals?

Read the transcript.

 

[Synthaholic]

Simply give over the documents. It is that easy.

I wonder if these people will tell the same story if they are put under oath.

However, none of that matters. Even if it turns out that it was nothing more than mistakes being made, people have died and someone has to answer for that.

Holder is at the top and ultimately responsible and will be the one to answer for these wrongful deaths.

/end discussion.

Another dumbass - he cannot turn over documents without breaking the law.