If this board is any

[geauxtohell]

You would have to understand the concept of Private Property for it to have meaning.

Enlighten me.

Imagine a place where the Society actually exists in part to defend, protect, and enrich It's Members both Individually and Collectively, establishing Justice, by the consent of the Governed. Imagine that there is no justification to abuse any member of that Society, and that is is a gross offense to do so, an abomination. Imagine that All Government resolution was by due process, was transparent, and held to account.

Study Locke and Madison on matters of Conscience. Thoreau, King, and Gandhi did.

Locke
John Locke: Second Treatise of Civil Government

Madison
Religious Freedom Page: Memorial and Remonstrance Against Religious Assessments, James Madison (1785)

Esoterics are fine.

However, we live in a world that is defined by pragmatism. Men are imperfect and instruments of man are also imperfect. In the end, we find a middle ground between a purely utilitarianist perspective and preserving individual liberties.

It's not always perfect, but it's certainly not defunct either.

That being said, how does our current situation deprive you of your rights and liberties?

I do enjoy Locke though. Nice to see a physician make a contribution to political thought.

 

[FireGod]

Right Wing Lunatics and Left Wing Whackos here have stated compromise is evil....yet our foundings as a nation were built on compromise. and both groups pretend to represent the ideals and principles of the founders....maybe they do, but they ALL lack the key element of success...the ability and the predisposition to compromise

The above (in bold) is the only tradition worth going back to.

If You were under physical assault, or being raped, what would You consider compromising?
How do You justify signing into Law something You haven' even read?

How could You trust for a second, People that are that irresponsible, incompetent, and corrupted by the process?

This ain't Candy Land. Every decision bears consequence. We are so far from original intent, the only solution that can be bloodless, is to dismantle, piece by piece, step by step, and eliminate the offense. If it can't be justified, why are we paying for it. I want a refund.

Does not pertain to the discussion

I am not a law maker your rage is a bit misdirected

Do we have a choice other than a mind wipe of the entire population?


Aint gonna happen till the corruption and hate stops.

 

[geauxtohell]

Imagine a place where the Society actually exists in part to defend, protect, and enrich It's Members both Individually and Collectively, establishing Justice, by the consent of the Governed. Imagine that there is no justification to abuse any member of that Society, and that is is a gross offense to do so, an abomination. Imagine that All Government resolution was by due process, was transparent, and held to account.

Study Locke and Madison on matters of Conscience. Thoreau, King, and Gandhi did.

Locke
John Locke: Second Treatise of Civil Government

Madison
Religious Freedom Page: Memorial and Remonstrance Against Religious Assessments, James Madison (1785)

Please, since when has the GOP stood up for conservative ideals like that?

Individuals, that support Federalism, do. I don't speak well for groups or clubs. Separate the Rhino's, Neo-Cons, Progressives, Statists, Blue Blooded Oligarchy, and You might have something. I'm Independent, until McCain and Graham leave.

The problem is defined here: you can label and marginalize anyone that doesn't subscribe to your exact beliefs.

However, in doing so, you only truly marginalize yourself.

 

[geauxtohell]

Enlighten me.

Imagine a place where the Society actually exists in part to defend, protect, and enrich It's Members both Individually and Collectively, establishing Justice, by the consent of the Governed. Imagine that there is no justification to abuse any member of that Society, and that is is a gross offense to do so, an abomination. Imagine that All Government resolution was by due process, was transparent, and held to account.

Study Locke and Madison on matters of Conscience. Thoreau, King, and Gandhi did.

Locke
John Locke: Second Treatise of Civil Government

Madison
Religious Freedom Page: Memorial and Remonstrance Against Religious Assessments, James Madison (1785)

Please, since when has the GOP stood up for conservative ideals like that?

Locke was far from a conservative.

Are you going to claim Voltaire too?

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Imagine a place where the Society actually exists in part to defend, protect, and enrich It's Members both Individually and Collectively, establishing Justice, by the consent of the Governed. Imagine that there is no justification to abuse any member of that Society, and that is is a gross offense to do so, an abomination. Imagine that All Government resolution was by due process, was transparent, and held to account.

Study Locke and Madison on matters of Conscience. Thoreau, King, and Gandhi did.

Locke
John Locke: Second Treatise of Civil Government

Madison
Religious Freedom Page: Memorial and Remonstrance Against Religious Assessments, James Madison (1785)

Please, since when has the GOP stood up for conservative ideals like that?

Locke was far from a conservative.

Are you going to claim Voltaire too?

Does it lead to more personal freedom and liberty or repudiation of personal liberty?
There is nothing the left does that leads to personal liberty In my lifetime that I recall.

What gift cards and welfare?
No, just another control scheme .

 

[Intense]

Enlighten me.

Imagine a place where the Society actually exists in part to defend, protect, and enrich It's Members both Individually and Collectively, establishing Justice, by the consent of the Governed. Imagine that there is no justification to abuse any member of that Society, and that is is a gross offense to do so, an abomination. Imagine that All Government resolution was by due process, was transparent, and held to account.

Study Locke and Madison on matters of Conscience. Thoreau, King, and Gandhi did.

Locke
John Locke: Second Treatise of Civil Government

Madison
Religious Freedom Page: Memorial and Remonstrance Against Religious Assessments, James Madison (1785)

Esoterics are fine.

However, we live in a world that is defined by pragmatism. Men are imperfect and instruments of man are also imperfect. In the end, we find a middle ground between a purely utilitarianist perspective and preserving individual liberties.

It's not always perfect, but it's certainly not defunct either.

That being said, how does our current situation deprive you of your rights and liberties?

I do enjoy Locke though. Nice to see a physician make a contribution to political thought.

Some things are never meant to be compromised. There have to be boundaries to address negative behavior and action, no matter the source. We are not perfect, yet in this life We learn and change so much, that is part of the point. Life, Liberty, Property, was what He recognized as the best defense against Tyranny. When Private Property is conditionally recognized, ignored, disrespected, it is a sign of very bad things to come.
How is Our Liberty bound, by the excessive cost of Governance. I live in NY, the Empire State, literally, fines, fee's, and penalties, on a good day. Obstruction and interference morning to night.

 

[geauxtohell]

Please, since when has the GOP stood up for conservative ideals like that?

Locke was far from a conservative.

Are you going to claim Voltaire too?

Does it lead to more personal freedom and liberty or repudiation of personal liberty?
There is nothing the left does that leads to personal liberty In my lifetime that I recall.

What gift cards and welfare?
No, just another control scheme .

Yeah, that damn civil rights act was just a big personal liberty grab.

I mean, whites had to actually share water fountains with blacks!

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Imagine a place where the Society actually exists in part to defend, protect, and enrich It's Members both Individually and Collectively, establishing Justice, by the consent of the Governed. Imagine that there is no justification to abuse any member of that Society, and that is is a gross offense to do so, an abomination. Imagine that All Government resolution was by due process, was transparent, and held to account.

Study Locke and Madison on matters of Conscience. Thoreau, King, and Gandhi did.

Locke
John Locke: Second Treatise of Civil Government

Madison
Religious Freedom Page: Memorial and Remonstrance Against Religious Assessments, James Madison (1785)

Please, since when has the GOP stood up for conservative ideals like that?

Individuals, that support Federalism, do. I don't speak well for groups or clubs. Separate the Rhino's, Neo-Cons, Progressives, Statists, Blue Blooded Oligarchy, and You might have something. I'm Independent, until McCain and Graham leave.

Leave ?they will have to be
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YCGtT_FRYg]YouTube - Rob dougan clubbed to death videoclip[/ame]

 

[geauxtohell]

Imagine a place where the Society actually exists in part to defend, protect, and enrich It's Members both Individually and Collectively, establishing Justice, by the consent of the Governed. Imagine that there is no justification to abuse any member of that Society, and that is is a gross offense to do so, an abomination. Imagine that All Government resolution was by due process, was transparent, and held to account.

Study Locke and Madison on matters of Conscience. Thoreau, King, and Gandhi did.

Locke
John Locke: Second Treatise of Civil Government

Madison
Religious Freedom Page: Memorial and Remonstrance Against Religious Assessments, James Madison (1785)

Esoterics are fine.

However, we live in a world that is defined by pragmatism. Men are imperfect and instruments of man are also imperfect. In the end, we find a middle ground between a purely utilitarianist perspective and preserving individual liberties.

It's not always perfect, but it's certainly not defunct either.

That being said, how does our current situation deprive you of your rights and liberties?

I do enjoy Locke though. Nice to see a physician make a contribution to political thought.

Some things are never meant to be compromised. There have to be boundaries to address negative behavior and action, no matter the source. We are not perfect, yet in this life We learn and change so much, that is part of the point. Life, Liberty, Property, was what He recognized as the best defense against Tyranny. When Private Property is conditionally recognized, ignored, disrespected, it is a sign of very bad things to come.
How is Our Liberty bound, by the excessive cost of Governance. I live in NY, the Empire State, literally, fines, fee's, and penalties, on a good day. Obstruction and interference morning to night.

You still haven't provided much of anything that supports the notion that your rights are being infringed upon.

Furthermore, Locke's credo of "Life, Liberty, and Property" was stolen by the founders, but changed to "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness".

Now why would they do that?

 

[Intense]

Imagine a place where the Society actually exists in part to defend, protect, and enrich It's Members both Individually and Collectively, establishing Justice, by the consent of the Governed. Imagine that there is no justification to abuse any member of that Society, and that is is a gross offense to do so, an abomination. Imagine that All Government resolution was by due process, was transparent, and held to account.

Study Locke and Madison on matters of Conscience. Thoreau, King, and Gandhi did.

Locke
John Locke: Second Treatise of Civil Government

Madison
Religious Freedom Page: Memorial and Remonstrance Against Religious Assessments, James Madison (1785)

Please, since when has the GOP stood up for conservative ideals like that?

Locke was far from a conservative.

Are you going to claim Voltaire too?

He lived by the two Great Commandments. I think You should not believe all of the crap You read about Conservatives. He believed in Private Property, Limited Government, Separation of Church and State, Conscience Dictating before Government Mandate, Non Violent Civil Disobedience. Madison, a True Federalist was saturated in His teachings.

You best decipher Who supports Free Will, as opposed to Who supports an all powerful Government mandate to control every aspect of Our Lives.

 

[geauxtohell]

Please, since when has the GOP stood up for conservative ideals like that?

Locke was far from a conservative.

Are you going to claim Voltaire too?

He lived by the two Great Commandments. I think You should not believe all of the crap You read about Conservatives. He believed in Private Property, Limited Government, Separation of Church and State, Conscience Dictating before Government Mandate, Non Violent Civil Disobedience. Madison, a True Federalist was saturated in His teachings.

You best decipher Who supports Free Will, as opposed to Who supports an all powerful Government mandate to control every aspect of Our Lives.

Madison was not so enamored by Locke that he insisted that our founding documents took a strictly Lockian view.

 

[Xenophon]

You are certainly taking the end of 'American chopper' very hard.

 

[Intense]

Esoterics are fine.

However, we live in a world that is defined by pragmatism. Men are imperfect and instruments of man are also imperfect. In the end, we find a middle ground between a purely utilitarianist perspective and preserving individual liberties.

It's not always perfect, but it's certainly not defunct either.

That being said, how does our current situation deprive you of your rights and liberties?

I do enjoy Locke though. Nice to see a physician make a contribution to political thought.

Some things are never meant to be compromised. There have to be boundaries to address negative behavior and action, no matter the source. We are not perfect, yet in this life We learn and change so much, that is part of the point. Life, Liberty, Property, was what He recognized as the best defense against Tyranny. When Private Property is conditionally recognized, ignored, disrespected, it is a sign of very bad things to come.
How is Our Liberty bound, by the excessive cost of Governance. I live in NY, the Empire State, literally, fines, fee's, and penalties, on a good day. Obstruction and interference morning to night.

You still haven't provided much of anything that supports the notion that your rights are being infringed upon.

Furthermore, Locke's credo of "Life, Liberty, and Property" was stolen by the founders, but changed to "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness".

Now why would they do that?

It wasn't stolen, are We don't be lame. Jefferson changed it, being partial to the French perspective. Personally I think He should have Added it rather than substituted. That's how I look at it. Shared Idea's are not stolen.

Like Hamilton are You going to deny Enumerated Powers? The cost of Government takes from All that actually work. I'm sorry, but it is past abusive. That's all You are going to get for now.

 

[beowolfe]

indication, the political hackery will never end.
the country will perish.
The people will live under tyranny.
I see a slight willingness on the right to call a pout the anti constitutionist
On the left I see no introspection .
Feel free to link to any post to prove me wrong Id be happy to so.

Call a pout the anti constitutionist??? What do you mean by that?

 

[geauxtohell]

It wasn't stolen, are We don't be lame. Jefferson changed it, being partial to the French perspective. Personally I think He should have Added it rather than substituted. That's how I look at it. Shared Idea's are not stolen.

Like Hamilton are You going to deny Enumerated Powers? The cost of Government takes from All that actually work. I'm sorry, but it is past abusive. That's all You are going to get for now.

You are dodging the question. I'll provide the answer:

The founding fathers changed a concrete and quantifiable concept like "property" to an abstract and non-quantifiable concept like "pursuit of happiness", because they did not believe that all men (and no women) were entitled to property. It had nothing to do with a hoodwink by Hamilton, they were products of their time where only white males who owned property were allowed access to any power.

The country you are arguing for is an abstract concept that never existed.

If anything, we have gained liberties in the past 250+ years. Now, any citizen can own property and vote.

So, and again, how are your liberties being infringed upon by the government?

I'll agree that there are some problems. I thought Kelo was a terrible decision. However, if the problem ever becomes large enough, we have the means to address it.

 

[Ravi]

indication, the political hackery will never end.
the country will perish.
The people will live under tyranny.
I see a slight willingness on the right to call a pout the anti constitutionist
On the left I see no introspection .
Feel free to link to any post to prove me wrong Id be happy to so.

We're all gonna die! *sob*

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Esoterics are fine.

However, we live in a world that is defined by pragmatism. Men are imperfect and instruments of man are also imperfect. In the end, we find a middle ground between a purely utilitarianist perspective and preserving individual liberties.

It's not always perfect, but it's certainly not defunct either.

That being said, how does our current situation deprive you of your rights and liberties?

I do enjoy Locke though. Nice to see a physician make a contribution to political thought.

Some things are never meant to be compromised. There have to be boundaries to address negative behavior and action, no matter the source. We are not perfect, yet in this life We learn and change so much, that is part of the point. Life, Liberty, Property, was what He recognized as the best defense against Tyranny. When Private Property is conditionally recognized, ignored, disrespected, it is a sign of very bad things to come.
How is Our Liberty bound, by the excessive cost of Governance. I live in NY, the Empire State, literally, fines, fee's, and penalties, on a good day. Obstruction and interference morning to night.

You still haven't provided much of anything that supports the notion that your rights are being infringed upon.

Furthermore, Locke's credo of "Life, Liberty, and Property" was stolen by the founders, but changed to "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness".

Now why would they do that?

Beyond that fact the governments policies over the decades is now making the dollar worthless
the government also is taking more of your money
Here are some of the ways you are losing your freedom

Tag renewal tax
City and county property tax
Battery core tax
Accounts Receivable Tax
Building Permit Tax
CDL License Tax
Cigarette Tax
Corporate Income Tax
Dog License Tax
Federal Income Tax
Federal Unemployment Tax (FUTA)
Fishing License Tax
Food License Tax
Fuel Permit Tax
Gasoline Tax
Hunting License Tax
Inheritance Tax
Inventory Tax
IRS Interest Charges (tax on top of tax),
IRS Penalties (tax on topof tax),
Liquor Tax,
Luxury Tax,
Marriage License Tax,
Medicare Tax,
Property Tax,
Real Estate Tax,
Service charge taxes,
Social Security Tax,
Road Usage Tax (Truckers),
Sales Taxes,
Recreational Vehicle Tax,
School Tax,
State Income Tax,
State Unemployment Tax (SUTA),
Telephone Federal Excise Tax,
Telephone Federal Universal Service Fee Tax,
Telephone Federal, State and Local Surcharge Tax,
Telephone Minimum Usage Surcharge Tax, Telephone Recurring and Non-recurring Charges Tax,
TelephoneState and Local Tax,
Telephone Usage Charge Tax,
Utility Tax,
Vehicle License Registration Tax,
Vehicle Sales Tax,
Watercraft Registration Tax,
Well Permit Tax,
Workers Compensation Tax.

Feel free to asnwer what freedoms have you lost.

in the name of combating "money laundering & Drug Trafficking", a policy was instituted that said any cash transaction of US$ 10,000 had to be reported to the Treasury Department. Within the just the last few years, without any public notice, that figured was reduced down to US$ 3,000

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Im sure none of those property rights mean anything to a man of your means

 

[geauxtohell]

Im sure none of those property rights mean anything to a man of your means

Are you talking to me? I am a grad student.

Must you and your weak mind continue to project falsehoods upon me?

 

[geauxtohell]

Some things are never meant to be compromised. There have to be boundaries to address negative behavior and action, no matter the source. We are not perfect, yet in this life We learn and change so much, that is part of the point. Life, Liberty, Property, was what He recognized as the best defense against Tyranny. When Private Property is conditionally recognized, ignored, disrespected, it is a sign of very bad things to come.
How is Our Liberty bound, by the excessive cost of Governance. I live in NY, the Empire State, literally, fines, fee's, and penalties, on a good day. Obstruction and interference morning to night.

You still haven't provided much of anything that supports the notion that your rights are being infringed upon.

Furthermore, Locke's credo of "Life, Liberty, and Property" was stolen by the founders, but changed to "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness".

Now why would they do that?

Beyond that fact the governments policies over the decades is now making the dollar worthless
the government also is taking more of your money
Here are some of the ways you are losing your freedom

Tag renewal tax
City and county property tax
Battery core tax
Accounts Receivable Tax
Building Permit Tax
CDL License Tax
Cigarette Tax
Corporate Income Tax
Dog License Tax
Federal Income Tax
Federal Unemployment Tax (FUTA)
Fishing License Tax
Food License Tax
Fuel Permit Tax
Gasoline Tax
Hunting License Tax
Inheritance Tax
Inventory Tax
IRS Interest Charges (tax on top of tax),
IRS Penalties (tax on topof tax),
Liquor Tax,
Luxury Tax,
Marriage License Tax,
Medicare Tax,
Property Tax,
Real Estate Tax,
Service charge taxes,
Social Security Tax,
Road Usage Tax (Truckers),
Sales Taxes,
Recreational Vehicle Tax,
School Tax,
State Income Tax,
State Unemployment Tax (SUTA),
Telephone Federal Excise Tax,
Telephone Federal Universal Service Fee Tax,
Telephone Federal, State and Local Surcharge Tax,
Telephone Minimum Usage Surcharge Tax, Telephone Recurring and Non-recurring Charges Tax,
TelephoneState and Local Tax,
Telephone Usage Charge Tax,
Utility Tax,
Vehicle License Registration Tax,
Vehicle Sales Tax,
Watercraft Registration Tax,
Well Permit Tax,
Workers Compensation Tax.

Feel free to asnwer what freedoms have you lost.

in the name of combating "money laundering & Drug Trafficking", a policy was instituted that said any cash transaction of US$ 10,000 had to be reported to the Treasury Department. Within the just the last few years, without any public notice, that figured was reduced down to US$ 3,000

Okay, you don't like taxes. I fail to see how that is an infringement upon your rights. If you hate taxes, change the policies and laws. Taxes are not innate or inherent.

I also fail to see how reporting your deposits causes you any sort of net harm either.