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There is no such thing as being "Pro-Abortion". Women have the right to the same bodily automoy as Men.
Women the right to decide their own health care. Women have the right to decide what medications they can and cannot take. At no time do MEN have the right to decide health care a Woman they do not know.
Women are NOT property. Women are owned. They are free and independent individuals who have the right to decide for themselves how they live their lives.
Well, this is where I have to disagree with you. The primary flaw of Roe was that it found an absolute right to do what you want with your body.
This simply isn't the case with American law. If it were, prostitution would be legal, drug use would be legal, and you could legally sell your kidney on eBay.
Abortion should be legal, because, as I have said, if a woman doesn't want to be pregnant, she will find a way to not be pregnant.
Just another pile of bullshit from known misogynistic asshole Joe. Fetuses are people you ignorant know nothing.Wow, Mormon Mike letting us know his vast knowledge of female biology.
Many women won't know they are pregnant at 6 weeks.
Wow, that's crazy. Making a woman jump through additional hoops. The fact is half of rapes are never reported. The woman is usually too ashamed (especially in the case of acquaintance rape.)
There's probably no reason for that, other than the Dental industry insists on it. Still no reason why a woman can't get a telemedicine prescription for Plan B.
Because Fetuses aren't people.
We don't count fetuses in the Census
You can't claim a fetus as a dependent on your taxes.
If you make a fetus a legal person, every miscarriage has to now be investigated as a potential homicide.
Pregnant women can be charged with assault for smoking, drinking, eating the wrong food, or doing any kind of exercise.
To compare fetuses to slaves or Holocaust victims is an insult to the REAL people who suffered those horrors.
Let's review Joe's view of women. HIS WORDS. "Women are just whores who want half my stuff." Biden carries Florida? Hahahaha! Not in any reality. Misogyny? That's all YOU you woman hating jackass.Hey, guy, I get that you don't want to logically argue your MISOGYNY.
You belong to a cult where the women's only job is to make babies, so I could imagine a woman desiring to be anything other than a mindless breeder horrifies you.
But when you enslave 50% of the population, you are gonna get a whoopin'.
Florida is putting Abortion on the ballot in November... and Biden will carry the state!
Maybe you should just STFU about stuff you know nothing about. Oh wait, then you'd never be able to talk....Or she can do what she pleases and you can mind your own business.
Again, keep pushing laws like this, I don't think you are going to like the result.
I respectffully disagree. There is no such thing as "Abortion on Demand." Women have the right to control their own body. The state does not enter into the decision.
Thanks for handing Florida back to dems.Naturally, liberals are up in arms over Florida's new abortion law, calling it "extreme" and even claiming that it "tramples on human rights." Let's take a look at this supposedly "extreme" law, based on the actual text of the law (LINK):
-- It allows abortions up to the sixth week of pregnancy. This is based on the medical, scientific fact that unborn babies have a heartbeat by the fifth or sixth week of pregnancy (LINK, LINK, LINK).
The argument that many women don't know they're pregnant by week six is dubious given the easy availability and low cost of DIY pregnancy tests. Furthermore, most women miss their upcoming period after they've gotten pregnant. Many women also begin to urinate much more frequently after they get pregnant and even before their upcoming period, and this is a well-known indication of pregnancy.
-- It includes exceptions for rape and incest. It allows abortions in cases of rape and incest up to week 15 of pregnancy.
Liberals are upset because the law requires that anyone claiming those exceptions must provide a copy of a police report, a medical record, or a court order. Well, yeah, because otherwise a woman could just falsely claim that she's been raped to get an abortion up to week 15. It takes about 15-20 minutes to file a police report, and you don't even have to go to a police station to do it--you can call and have the police come to your residence.
-- It includes an exception for the life of the mother. It even allows the expenditure of state funds to transport women to other states to receive an abortion for the reason of endangerment (life of the mother) if necessary.
-- Significantly, it changes the state's pregnancy support and wellness services network to expand eligibility for such services to women who are up to 12 months postpartum and to parents or guardians of children under the age of three for up to 12 months. The bill adds new services and assistance which the network is required to provide, including counseling, mentoring, educational materials, and classes, as well as material assistance including clothing, car seats, cribs, baby formula, and diapers.
-- It requires just two in-person doctor visits and only a 24-hour waiting period between the visits. People often have two doctor visits before getting any kind of surgery, even minor surgery. When I had minor shoulder surgery, I saw a doctor three times before the surgery was performed.
-- It bans abortion by telemedicine and requires any medication abortion to be dispensed in person. Liberals are howling about these provisions as well. Yet, I can't even give myself a dental fluoride treatment--my dentist or a dental tech has to do it, even though I could easily do it myself. So this is not an outrageous requirement.
One thing that stands out to me as I read liberal attacks on Florida's new abortion law is that they say nothing--absolutely nothing--about the rights and/or humanity of the unborn baby. Indeed, they talk about abortion the same way that slavery apologists in the 1800s talked about slavery, never mentioning the victims.
In fact, liberals are furious that abortions have declined in states that have placed time limits on when abortions can be performed. They aren't the least bit happy that thousands of babies who would have otherwise been killed have been spared death and allowed to live.
Well, that's interesting, because Florida voters have elected a legislature that has a large Republican majority in both chambers, and they just reelected their conservative, pro-life GOP governor by a landslide margin.Floridians are 66 to 29% of favor of reproductive rights concerning this vote.
"Women haters"?! Abortion has harmed, and continues to harm, many women, not to mention the hundreds of thousands of little baby girls who are killed by abortion each year.Well, women haters, which way do you think the vote will go?
Well, that's interesting, because Florida voters have elected a legislature that has a large Republican majority in both chambers, and they just reelected their conservative, pro-life GOP governor by a landslide margin.
Fetuses aren't people, Mormon Mike."Women haters"?! Abortion has harmed, and continues to harm, many women, not to mention the hundreds of thousands of little baby girls who are killed by abortion each year.
Since you like Links, Mormon Mike.Are you aware of the mountain of research that shows that getting an abortion increases a woman's chance of having breast cancer?
www.komen.org
This is based on the medical, scientific fact that unborn babies have a heartbeat by the fifth or sixth week of pregnancy
www.nbcnews.com
Oh, so you're going to split hairs over how far-developed the heart is at six weeks and ignore the scientific fact that cardiac activity in the baby is detected--not yet "heard," but detected--as early as five weeks, including the pumping of blood to other parts of the body by week six. You would have made a great slavery apologist.There is no heartbeat at six weeks
The correct medical term for what’s observed at this point is “cardiac activity,” said Dr. Sarah Prager, a professor of obstetrics and gynecology at University of Washington Medicine.
It’s not until around 17 to 20 weeks, when the four chambers of the heart have developed and can be detected on an ultrasound, that the term heartbeat is accurate, according to ACOG.
An emotional touchpoint
While what exists at six weeks isn’t a beating heart, pregnant people hear something during an ultrasound early in pregnancy.
“Medically speaking, when I put a stethoscope against a patient’s heart, that ‘lub dub’ sound is made by the opening and closing of the cardiac valve,” Verma said. “At six weeks, those valves don’t exist.”
In fact, the sound pregnant people hear during ultrasounds at six weeks is entirely manufactured by the ultrasound machine, Verma said. “It’s an electrical pulse that’s translated into the sound we’re hearing from the ultrasound machine.”
‘Heartbeat bills’: Is there a fetal heartbeat at six weeks of pregnancy?
The term "fetal heartbeat" is medically inaccurate and misleading, experts say.
| week 5 | The developing heart is made up of two tubes that have fused in the middle, creating a trunk with four tubes branching off. Cardiac tissue begins to contract, and it may be possible to detect it using vaginal ultrasound. |
| week 6 | The heart of the embryo has changed dramatically — the basic heart tube has looped, forming an “S” shape. |
| week 7 | The pumping chambers, or ventricles, and receiving chambers, or atria, of the heart begin to separate and develop. |
| week 8 | The valves between the atria and ventricles of the heart form. |
| weeks 9 and 10 | The aorta and pulmonary vein form. By week 10, the fetal heart has developed fully. (LINK) |
The scientific fact is there is no heart to beat at 6 weeks, only the developing nerves that will eventually control the hearts beat beginning to fire off that is being detected. It's all an emotional ploy of the anti-choice crowd.Oh, so you're going to split hairs over how far-developed the heart is at six weeks and ignore the scientific fact that cardiac activity in the baby is detected--not yet "heard," but detected--as early as five weeks, including the pumping of blood to other parts of the body by week six. You would have made a great slavery apologist.
One of my links mentioned the fact that the baby's heart does not fully develop until after it starts to beat. Did you read my links?
The Lozier Institute:
At 6 weeks gestation, the embryo has a steady heartbeat around 110 beats per minute. The heart moves oxygen-carrying blood throughout the developing embryo so that it can continue to grow. Without a heartbeat circulating blood, new tissues would not have enough oxygen to survive. (LINK)
And, BTW, the baby's heart is fully developed by week 9 or 10, not week 17-20 as one of your sources wrongly claims. Medical News Today:
week 5 The developing heart is made up of two tubes that have fused in the middle, creating a trunk with four tubes branching off.
Cardiac tissue begins to contract, and it may be possible to detect it using vaginal ultrasound.week 6 The heart of the embryo has changed dramatically — the basic heart tube has looped, forming an “S” shape. week 7 The pumping chambers, or ventricles, and receiving chambers, or atria, of the heart begin to separate and develop. week 8 The valves between the atria and ventricles of the heart form. weeks 9 and 10 The aorta and pulmonary vein form. By week 10, the fetal heart has developed fully. (LINK)
So would you be okay with banning abortions after week 10? No, of course not. You wouldn't support banning abortions after week 20, for that matter, because you couldn't care less about the baby.
Johns Hopkins Medical School website:
Although the fetal heart begins beating as early as the 5th week after the LMP, your ability to detect it will be limited by your equipment.
An ultrasound machine usually will enable you to see a heartbeat by 5 to 6 weeks gestation if equipped with a vaginal probe. (LINK)
Medical News Today:
Cardiac tissue starts to pulse at around 5–6 weeks of pregnancy, registering as a heartbeat on the ultrasound, though the heart has not developed yet. (LINK)
NIH on the fact that slower heartbeat rates in unborn babies from weeks 6 to 8 is a good predicator that the baby will die in the womb:
Embryonic heart rates below 90 beats per minute at 6 to 8 weeks of gestation have been shown to be associated with a high likelihood of subsequent first trimester demise. The boundary between slow and normal heart rates has not been established, however, in that previous studies do not identify the heart rate for each gestational age at which prognosis plateaus. We evaluated sonograms of singleton pregnancies at 6 to 8 weeks to determine the relationship between heart rate and first trimester outcome in four gestational age subgroups: < or = 6.2, 6.3-7.0, 7.1-7.5, and 7.6-8.0 weeks. Below 6.2 weeks, prognosis improved as heart rate increased to 100 beats per minute, then plateaued for rates > or = 100 beats per minute. At 6.3-7.0 weeks, prognosis improved up to 120 beats per minute, then plateaued. Heart rate norms could not be established at 7.1-8.0 weeks because of the small number of embryonic or fetal deaths in this age group; however, all embryos with heart rates below 110 beats per minute at 7.1-8.0 weeks died. We conclude that the lower limit of normal is 100 beats per minute up to 6.2 weeks' gestation and 120 bpm at 6.3-7.0 weeks.
American Pregnancy Association:
Between 5 ½ to 6 ½ weeks, a fetal pole or even a fetal heartbeat may be detected by vaginal ultrasound. The fetal pole is the first visible sign of a developing embryo. This pole structure actually has some curve to it with the embryo’s head at one end and what looks like a tail at the other end.
The fetal pole now allows for crown-to-rump measurements (CRL) to be taken so that pregnancy dating can be a bit more accurate. The fetal pole may be seen at a crown-rump length (CRL) of 2-4 mm, and the heartbeat may be seen as a regular flutter when the CRL has reached 5mm.
If a vaginal ultrasound is done and no fetal pole or cardiac activity is seen, another ultrasound scan should be done in 3-7 days. Due to the fact that pregnancy dating can be wrong, it would be much too early at this point to make a clear diagnosis of the outcome of the pregnancy.
OMNI Ultrasound & Gynaecological Care:
But how soon can an ultrasound show a baby’s heartbeat? The answer to this question depends on a few factors, such as the stage of pregnancy, the type of ultrasound used, the pregnancy being dated correctly, and the skill of the person performing the ultrasound. . . .
After six weeks of pregnancy, electrical activity can be detected in the embryo. This early on, a transvaginal ultrasound needs to be performed to get closer to the developing embryo. The tiny flicker of cardiac activity can only be seen at this stage, not heard. Still, seeing this activity depends on the quality of the ultrasound machine, the weight of the patient, and the position of the embryo and uterus. If the pregnancy has not been dated correctly, this may also affect whether the activity can be detected.
Parents may assume they are hearing the heartbeat during the ten to fourteen-week scan when conducted using a handheld Doppler fetal monitor or acoustic Doppler. This pulsing noise, however, is the sound the machine produces rather than the sound of blood circulating in the fetus. The actual heartbeat is only audible by about 20 to 22 weeks using a standard stethoscope. Alternatively, the fetus can be seen, and its heartbeat heard using a Doppler ultrasound, which is different from the handheld Doppler fetal monitor or acoustic Doppler. (LINK)
Hey, guy, I get that you don't want to logically argue your MISOGYNY.
You belong to a cult where the women's only job is to make babies, so I could imagine a woman desiring to be anything other than a mindless breeder horrifies you.
But when you enslave 50% of the population, you are gonna get a whoopin'.
Florida is putting Abortion on the ballot in November... and Biden will carry the state!
Some people just love big govt and hate bodily autonomy
You either can't read or are lying. I just quoted and linked several scientific sources on the fact that the baby's partially formed heart begins to beat and to pump blood to other parts of his/her tiny body by 5-6 weeks into pregnancy. The heartbeat can be detected by several means, as the sources also documented.The scientific fact is there is no heart to beat at 6 weeks, only the developing nerves that will eventually control the hearts beat beginning to fire off that is being detected. It's all an emotional ploy of the anti-choice crowd.
You either can't read or are lying. I just quoted and linked several scientific sources on the fact that the baby's partially formed heart begins to beat and to pump blood to other parts of his/her tiny body by 5-6 weeks into pregnancy. The heartbeat can be detected by several means, as the sources also documented.
BTW, "fetus" is the Latin word for "BABY."
www.vocabulary.com
Like the slavery apologists who denied the humanity of the slaves, you pro-abortion folks strain and dissemble to deny the humanity of the baby in the womb.
It's not at all surprising that you promote abortion and deny the humanity of the unborn child, given that you think mass murderer Mao Tse Tung is actually worthy of admiration and was less repressive than Chiang Kai-shek, and that Joseph Stalin did not really murder nearly as many people as 99% of historians say he did.This is what you want to give full human rights to, Mormon Mike.
Actually, no. The word fetus comes from the Latin "Feto," which means "I breed." In Latin, it translated into "Hatching".
The Romans didn't consider abortion to be murder, and in fact, midwives were trained to administer them.
Punishment for abortion in the Roman Republic was generally inflicted as a violation of the father's right to dispose of his offspring.[18]: 3 Because of the influence of Stoicism, which did not view the fetus as a person, the Romans did not punish abortion as homicide.[50] Although abortion was commonly accepted in Rome, around 211 AD emperors Septimius Severus and Caracalla banned abortion as infringing on parental rights; temporary exile was the punishment.[19]
For those playing along at home, Mormon Mike belongs to a deranged cult that didn't let black people join as full members until 1978, and Brigham Young tried to bring Utah into the Union as a slave state.
Okay, this is an obnoxious comparison, mostly because no one denied slaves were human and it was against the law to kill your slaves. (Which no one ever did because that was pretty much like throwing away money.) To compare the actual suffering of blacks to the elimination of fetuses who have no self-awareness or higher brain functions (must resist making another Mormon joke here!!) is obscene.
The problem with giving fetuses full human rights go well beyond abortion. It opens a whole can of worms of other legal implications.
For instance, can you now claim a fetus as a tax dependent? How many people will claim they were pregnant in December and had a "miscarriage" in January? (You may scoff, but my younger brother wanted his second daughter born in December so he could claim her as a tax deduction; he even made jokes about inducing labor.)
Speaking of miscarriages, do we now investigate every miscarriage as a homicide? You know, to make sure some doctor who was performing abortions before your abortion ban doesn't just call it a miscarriage?
And once Globby the Fetus has the same human rights as an actual baby, can we then charge his mother with child abuse if she sneaks a smoke during pregnancy? Or sips a glass of wine? Or doesn't eat the right foods?
Are all frozen embryos in IVF clinics now subject to Habeus Corpus rulings?
www.cmf.org.uk
www.firstthings.com
www.compasscare.info
link.springer.com
It's not at all surprising that you promote abortion and deny the humanity of the unborn child, given that you think mass murderer Mao Tse Tung is actually worthy of admiration and was less repressive than Chiang Kai-shek, and that Joseph Stalin did not really murder nearly as many people as 99% of historians say he did.
Susan G. Komen foundation, the leading organization on Breast Cancer and the people who run events where it's actually okay to make titty jokes, says there's no link between abortion and breast cancer... other than they both happen to people with two X Chromosones.Regarding your earlier denial of my point that a mountain of research shows that having an abortion increases the risk of breast cancer, below is some information for your education. I'll start with information from the American College of Pediatricians:
Without heart valves there is no pumping of blood and no heartbeat. It is another right to lie myth to garner an emotional response. Although the cardiac activity of the nerves is an important milestone for the development of the embryo at that stage.You either can't read or are lying. I just quoted and linked several scientific sources on the fact that the baby's partially formed heart begins to beat and to pump blood to other parts of his/her tiny body by 5-6 weeks into pregnancy. The heartbeat can be detected by several means, as the sources also documented.
Science has even determined the average heartbeat rate for the baby at this point, and can also predict the baby's demise if the heartbeat is substantially below this average heartbeat.
You tried to move the goal posts by using the strawman argument that the baby's heartbeat cannot be heard until later in the pregnancy. I never said the heartbeat could be heard when it begins. I said the baby has a heartbeat by week five or six. Although the heartbeat cannot be heard at that point, it can be detected and measured.
BTW, "fetus" is the Latin word for "BABY."
Like the slavery apologists who denied the humanity of the slaves, you pro-abortion folks strain and dissemble to deny the humanity of the baby in the womb.
