Home from my trips to Israel

[a loss for words]

I was there 5 weeks. I had a good time.

I had prejudices, mostly blown up. A few tempered from iron to titanium steel.

The place is horribly expensive . For an American it is sticker shock every day. There are some things that are cheaper, busses and trains. But most things are just way to much.

Jews are mostly vegetarian, mostly . There is small amounts of meat compared to American stores. There are lots of fruit and vegetables stores , very few meat stores. I think this is both a factor of high price and preferences.

People in Tel Aviv are mostly secular, when they have a religious preference, they seem to prefer the more stringent style.

There are religious , sort of proselytizing Jews around . They have the straps and cloth, but they mostly just have them for those who want them, they don't preach.

For me, I am more pro Israel in most ways. I don't like the way they do others.

I met some Palestinian folks. They didn't convert me at all, quite the reverse . In Hebron especially . He tried, and there were some very intense conversation , but the Israeli attitude was more convincing .


I did like it there. I would advise to do the same. I lived in hostels I ate mostly fruit. I did lots of walking around. I didn't see everything by a long shot, but I did see quite a few things .

I do think if you are going to have an opinion , you should have some personal facts.

 

[Pete7469]

Thanks for sharing your experience.

 

[pismoe]

too hard , expensive for everyone or just me to see Israel . I just support and like Israelis and Jews more than 'muslims' . Most Jews and Israelis that i knew were from Europe and resettled in Miami after ww2 and i knew them back in the mid 60s , early 70s , Anyway , sounds like a nice trip ALWords .

 

[Sixties Fan]

I was there 5 weeks. I had a good time.

I had prejudices, mostly blown up. A few tempered from iron to titanium steel.

The place is horribly expensive . For an American it is sticker shock every day. There are some things that are cheaper, busses and trains. But most things are just way to much.

Jews are mostly vegetarian, mostly . There is small amounts of meat compared to American stores. There are lots of fruit and vegetables stores , very few meat stores. I think this is both a factor of high price and preferences.

People in Tel Aviv are mostly secular, when they have a religious preference, they seem to prefer the more stringent style.

There are religious , sort of proselytizing Jews around . They have the straps and cloth, but they mostly just have them for those who want them, they don't preach.

For me, I am more pro Israel in most ways. I don't like the way they do others.

I met some Palestinian folks. They didn't convert me at all, quite the reverse . In Hebron especially . He tried, and there were some very intense conversation , but the Israeli attitude was more convincing .


I did like it there. I would advise to do the same. I lived in hostels I ate mostly fruit. I did lots of walking around. I didn't see everything by a long shot, but I did see quite a few things .

I do think if you are going to have an opinion , you should have some personal facts.

<<There are religious , sort of proselytizing Jews around . They have the straps and cloth, but they mostly just have them for those who want them, they don't preach.>>

Could you tell that they were Jews, or could they have been Christians doing the proselytizing. I am not aware of Jews attempting to "proselytize" anyone. And the word would mean convert someone to Judaism.

What some Jews might do is to offer to teach the Torah to the Jews who might be interested, to make their bond to Judaism stronger. See below.

These are probably any one of these groups:

Proselytization and counter-proselytization of Jews - Wikipedia

 

[Tijn Von Ingersleben]

Very cool! Nothing broadens the mind like travel. Thank you!

 

[fncceo]

I was there 5 weeks. I had a good time.

I had prejudices, mostly blown up. A few tempered from iron to titanium steel.

The place is horribly expensive . For an American it is sticker shock every day. There are some things that are cheaper, busses and trains. But most things are just way to much.

Jews are mostly vegetarian, mostly . There is small amounts of meat compared to American stores. There are lots of fruit and vegetables stores , very few meat stores. I think this is both a factor of high price and preferences.

People in Tel Aviv are mostly secular, when they have a religious preference, they seem to prefer the more stringent style.

There are religious , sort of proselytizing Jews around . They have the straps and cloth, but they mostly just have them for those who want them, they don't preach.

For me, I am more pro Israel in most ways. I don't like the way they do others.

I met some Palestinian folks. They didn't convert me at all, quite the reverse . In Hebron especially . He tried, and there were some very intense conversation , but the Israeli attitude was more convincing .


I did like it there. I would advise to do the same. I lived in hostels I ate mostly fruit. I did lots of walking around. I didn't see everything by a long shot, but I did see quite a few things .

I do think if you are going to have an opinion , you should have some personal facts.

I prefer in getting my personal opinions the old-fashioned way ... from someone with agenda.

 

[fncceo]

They have the straps and cloth, but they mostly just have them for those who want them

The 'straps' are tefillin and the 'cloth' is talit. They are both items of religious significance described in Torah.

Wearing them daily during prayer (except on Shabbat) is a biblical commandment (or mitzvah) for Jews. The ritual however is a little complex and not a practice done by most Jews.

Groups like Chabad go to places where Jews congregate (which in Israel is pretty much everywhere) with 'Mitzvah Vans' to show Jews how to use the Tallit and Tefillin and offer them a chance to perform the mitzvah.

The don't offer this service to non-Jews (at least not knowingly).

 

[a loss for words]

I was there 5 weeks. I had a good time.

I had prejudices, mostly blown up. A few tempered from iron to titanium steel.

The place is horribly expensive . For an American it is sticker shock every day. There are some things that are cheaper, busses and trains. But most things are just way to much.

Jews are mostly vegetarian, mostly . There is small amounts of meat compared to American stores. There are lots of fruit and vegetables stores , very few meat stores. I think this is both a factor of high price and preferences.

People in Tel Aviv are mostly secular, when they have a religious preference, they seem to prefer the more stringent style.

There are religious , sort of proselytizing Jews around . They have the straps and cloth, but they mostly just have them for those who want them, they don't preach.

For me, I am more pro Israel in most ways. I don't like the way they do others.

I met some Palestinian folks. They didn't convert me at all, quite the reverse . In Hebron especially . He tried, and there were some very intense conversation , but the Israeli attitude was more convincing .


I did like it there. I would advise to do the same. I lived in hostels I ate mostly fruit. I did lots of walking around. I didn't see everything by a long shot, but I did see quite a few things .

I do think if you are going to have an opinion , you should have some personal facts.

<<There are religious , sort of proselytizing Jews around . They have the straps and cloth, but they mostly just have them for those who want them, they don't preach.>>

Could you tell that they were Jews, or could they have been Christians doing the proselytizing. I am not aware of Jews attempting to "proselytize" anyone. And the word would mean convert someone to Judaism.

What some Jews might do is to offer to teach the Torah to the Jews who might be interested, to make their bond to Judaism stronger. See below.

These are probably any one of these groups:

Proselytization and counter-proselytization of Jews - Wikipedia

That is what I saw. They had the Talits and the leathers and they usually had a prayer book. They were not actively proselytize, they were there to help. Doing the leather straps looked extremely complicated. I saw them at Carmel Market and places like that.

One of the things I like about Judaism is they don't do the "Come To JESUS" type of pushing their religion. Or their anything. They will correct you, but they by and large don't force you.

That is sort of what was more convincing about the Hebron trip. The palestinians were intense about convincing about a not very good position, the Jews had just a set of facts. I think the jews knew their customers better than the palestinians did and sold it better, but I also think they had a better product

 

[USAF 2023]

I was there 5 weeks. I had a good time.

I had prejudices, mostly blown up. A few tempered from iron to titanium steel.

The place is horribly expensive . For an American it is sticker shock every day. There are some things that are cheaper, busses and trains. But most things are just way to much.

Jews are mostly vegetarian, mostly . There is small amounts of meat compared to American stores. There are lots of fruit and vegetables stores , very few meat stores. I think this is both a factor of high price and preferences.

People in Tel Aviv are mostly secular, when they have a religious preference, they seem to prefer the more stringent style.

There are religious , sort of proselytizing Jews around . They have the straps and cloth, but they mostly just have them for those who want them, they don't preach.

For me, I am more pro Israel in most ways. I don't like the way they do others.

I met some Palestinian folks. They didn't convert me at all, quite the reverse . In Hebron especially . He tried, and there were some very intense conversation , but the Israeli attitude was more convincing .


I did like it there. I would advise to do the same. I lived in hostels I ate mostly fruit. I did lots of walking around. I didn't see everything by a long shot, but I did see quite a few things .

I do think if you are going to have an opinion , you should have some personal facts.

What is the Palestinian point of view? Thanks

 

[a loss for words]

The guy in Hebron went on about Bernard Goldstein, who was a monster who most everyone in the Jewish community excoriated, but he made him the poster boy of Jewish thought. He also went on about the reaction of the Israeli government to Goldstein's crime being harsher to the Arabs than was sensible. It struck me that the actions of the Israeli government toward the citizens was not in response to what Goldstien did.

He said that the actions of the jewish citizens were nasty and rude.

The actions of the government toward the citizens of Hebron was to treat them like maximum security prisoners. There was a great deal of truth to that.

He said it was the goal of the government to shut down business on the path to the patriarchs.

Hebron was a special case.

 

[Sixties Fan]

The guy in Hebron went on about Bernard Goldstein, who was a monster who most everyone in the Jewish community excoriated, but he made him the poster boy of Jewish thought. He also went on about the reaction of the Israeli government to Goldstein's crime being harsher to the Arabs than was sensible. It struck me that the actions of the Israeli government toward the citizens was not in response to what Goldstien did.

He said that the actions of the jewish citizens were nasty and rude.

The actions of the government toward the citizens of Hebron was to treat them like maximum security prisoners. There was a great deal of truth to that.

He said it was the goal of the government to shut down business on the path to the patriarchs.

Hebron was a special case.

His name was Baruch, not Bernard.

He did something monstrous, but I would not call him a monster.
One needs to be aware of what was happening at that time, the Oslo Accords being signed and Arab attacks on Jews continued to happen instead of the Accord putting a stop to them. As they continue to this day.

Cave of the Patriarchs massacre - Wikipedia

 

[a loss for words]

He presented Goldstein's act was if it were a totally out of a blue sky act with no acts by anyone else. This was the days of the bus bombings.

I tried to present his argument as he presented it. I really can't do that.

 

[Sixties Fan]

He presented Goldstein's act was if it were a totally out of a blue sky act with no acts by anyone else. This was the days of the bus bombings.

I tried to present his argument as he presented it. I really can't do that.

I understand that you were presenting how they present what happened. They were not there, they only know what they have been told.

Thank you for relating it to us.

 

[theliq]

He presented Goldstein's act was if it were a totally out of a blue sky act with no acts by anyone else. This was the days of the bus bombings.

I tried to present his argument as he presented it. I really can't do that.

Thanks for your Exposae,Losty ..I have been to Israel on many occasions and your point of I met a few Palestinians,is a regret because on both sides there are some very beautiful,lovely people,I have been to many gathering where both Palestinians and Jews socialize very well,a lot of information out of Israel is extremely negative,from the few % that have HATE as their motivation.....a lot of Palestinians like living in Israel,dispite some occasional detriment.

They I think on reflection these days feel fairly included in Israeli Society if I am honest......BUT there is a strain of Jews who are quite detestible towards Palestinian Women and Older Jewish people...But you find that in a lot of societies worldwide.....Some of the Jewish history that is taught is suspect but as a score out of 10,I would give Israel circa 7.5 and by comparison the US 7 and Australia 9.8....this is but my opinion...steve,again thanks for you observations on this young and progressive country,thanks indeed Loss4Words

 

[Humanity]

He did something monstrous, but I would not call him a monster.

Clearly, if it had been a Muslim who committed mass murder of 29 Jews and injured a further 125 he WOULD be a monster in your eyes!

 

[Sixties Fan]

He did something monstrous, but I would not call him a monster.

Clearly, if it had been a Muslim who committed mass murder of 29 Jews and injured a further 125 he WOULD be a monster in your eyes!

You wish to not know the circumstances and understand why he snapped.
Do not look at history, or what was happening at the time at all.

That was one instance of a Jew committing such a barbaric act.

Now, you do not really want to look at all of the barbaric acts Muslims have committed from 1920 until present day. Fine.

Even less, do not look at all the Muslim barbaric acts committed against Jews from the 7th Century until today.

And especially more, do not look at the Barbaric acts committed by Muslims against Muslims
or any other group in pursuit of the Islamic Caliphate.

 

[a loss for words]

He did something monstrous, but I would not call him a monster.

Clearly, if it had been a Muslim who committed mass murder of 29 Jews and injured a further 125 he WOULD be a monster in your eyes!

I think this is a stark difference between jews and other folks. They seem to distinguish between the act and the actor to a excessive degree. So I think your comment is incorrect.

As is the belief that context matters more than with us.

Context, like the buss bombings of school kids, does not in any way excuse this. But the relentless and heartbreaking bus bombings does inform on the wall.

 

[Humanity]

You wish to not know the circumstances and understand why he snapped.
Do not look at history, or what was happening at the time at all.

That was one instance of a Jew committing such a barbaric act.

Yes, that's lovely dear, but...

Justifying mass murder because of 'circumstance' for a Jew and ignoring the 'circumstance' of the Palestinians is laughable!

You can see, the rest of your comment I chose not to quote as it is a deflection from the issue.

Mass murder, carried out by anyone, makes them a monster. Whether there are extenuating circumstances, mental illness or any other 'excuse'.

 

[Sixties Fan]

He did something monstrous, but I would not call him a monster.

Clearly, if it had been a Muslim who committed mass murder of 29 Jews and injured a further 125 he WOULD be a monster in your eyes!

I think this is a stark difference between jews and other folks. They seem to distinguish between the act and the actor to a excessive degree. So I think your comment is incorrect.

As is the belief that context matters more than with us.

Context, like the buss bombings of school kids, does not in any way excuse this. But the relentless and heartbreaking bus bombings does inform on the wall.

I never said that Goldberg's act was not horrific or barbaric.
What I am saying is that Jews do NOT commit such acts in general.
It is not something which is taught in Judaism.
If it were, history would have been very different that it has been.

This is no different than one being sane and normal in the USA and committing a crime, or being mentally ill and committing a crime.

But again, let it be said that that kind of horrible crime was a ONE in a Billion amongst Jews who have been attempting to live in peace with the Muslims on their homeland, and the Muslims who have done nothing but want ALL of the LAND, because Islam tells them that it is how it should be.

It has always been about Muslims have the right to keep the Jews as Dhimmis and return the land of Israel into Muslim hands.

Do you want to count the times Jews started any attacks on Arabs from 1920 to 1948?

Do you know how to find the information?

How about attacks on Arabs since 1948?

Do you know how to find the information?

If none of you know the difference between Judaism and Islam and what each teaches, and do not care to know or find out, then one is always going to find any Jewish attack on Arabs or anyone else as a common thing.

It was a crime, but if you do not know what was at stake at the time, what was happening before it happened, than one is always going to equate any Jewish attack on Muslims as the same thing, when it is not.

-------
<<<But the relentless and heartbreaking bus bombings does inform on the wall.>>>

What does that mean?

 

[Humanity]

He did something monstrous, but I would not call him a monster.

Clearly, if it had been a Muslim who committed mass murder of 29 Jews and injured a further 125 he WOULD be a monster in your eyes!

I think this is a stark difference between jews and other folks. They seem to distinguish between the act and the actor to a excessive degree. So I think your comment is incorrect.

As is the belief that context matters more than with us.

Context, like the buss bombings of school kids, does not in any way excuse this. But the relentless and heartbreaking bus bombings does inform on the wall.

You believe that you can justify mass murder because it was carried out by a Jew?