CDZ Help me review a hiring decision

[Boss]

I think that's what stupid job seekers do.

I don't think it has anything to do with "stupid" it's just different strokes for different folks. They may feel like, if they ask for too much, they will get passed over for someone with lesser expectations. They may feel like, if they don't ask for enough, they're going to get screwed. Most people will answer with what they think you want to hear. Asking less is humble, asking more is greedy. Err on the side of humble.

I think it's a mistake on part of the OP to assume undervaluing is a red flag for low self confidence. What you expect to be paid and what you believe you're worth are two different questions.

 

[320 Years of History]

I think that's what stupid job seekers do.

I don't think it has anything to do with "stupid" it's just different strokes for different folks. They may feel like, if they ask for too much, they will get passed over for someone with lesser expectations. They may feel like, if they don't ask for enough, they're going to get screwed. Most people will answer with what they think you want to hear. Asking less is humble, asking more is greedy. Err on the side of humble.

I think it's a mistake on part of the OP to assume undervaluing is a red flag for low self confidence. What you expect to be paid and what you believe you're worth are two different questions.

Red:
Well, there's another stupid thing to do. What makes any sense about being asked what one wants/expects to earn and then responding with what one surmises the interviewer wants to hear instead of what one either needs as a minimum, wants because one feels it's fair, or expects/wants for any number of perfectly good reasons? Seems to me any response that reflects something other than what one has rationally determined is what one wants or needs is just a silly answer.

Do people honestly go into job interviews unprepared to defend their salary requests when given a little bit of initial pushback? Hell, doing that amounts to just picking a figure because it sounds good. Really? God forbid they find themselves working in a partnership...

Blue:
I agree with that.

 

[Boss]

What makes any sense about being asked what one wants/expects to earn and then responding with what one surmises the interviewer wants to hear instead of what one either needs as a minimum, wants because one feels it's fair, or expects/wants for any number of perfectly good reasons?

Okay... so you don't comprehend why a person who wants a job would want to tell the person who has the job to give what they want to hear? Do you understand why a car salesman tells his potential customer what he thinks the customer wants to hear in order to sell him a car? Do you understand why a man may tell a woman what she wants to hear in order to further their relationship together? Do you understand why a politician would tell a voter what they want to hear in order to win their vote? All of these things make perfect sense to me, I'm not sure why they don't make sense to you.

I never said it made sense to ask for something less than they think is fair or what they need as a minimum. But again... what someone may think is fair or need for a minimum has little to do with what they think they are worth. This is the correlation I am objecting to.

 

[eagle1462010]

B............kind of giving it away on who the Op wanted......................like a spoiler.................

If the Op was the final decision though.

 

[initforme]

Only having a high school diploma is a huge red flag. DQ

 

[320 Years of History]

What makes any sense about being asked what one wants/expects to earn and then responding with what one surmises the interviewer wants to hear instead of what one either needs as a minimum, wants because one feels it's fair, or expects/wants for any number of perfectly good reasons?

Okay... so you don't comprehend why a person who wants a job would want to tell the person who has the job to give what they want to hear? Do you understand why a car salesman tells his potential customer what he thinks the customer wants to hear in order to sell him a car? Do you understand why a man may tell a woman what she wants to hear in order to further their relationship together? Do you understand why a politician would tell a voter what they want to hear in order to win their vote? All of these things make perfect sense to me, I'm not sure why they don't make sense to you.

I never said it made sense to ask for something less than they think is fair or what they need as a minimum. But again... what someone may think is fair or need for a minimum has little to do with what they think they are worth. This is the correlation I am objecting to.

No, I do not. Behaving that way suggests to me a lack of integrity and I have no tolerance for that. If I'm asked what I want or expect, I'm going to answer that question honestly and with regard to what I want or expect, not what I think someone else wants or expects to hear.

Telling me what they think I want to hear when I'm the interviewer is necessarily going to, among other things, lead me to believe there is a strong degree of similarity between theirs and my expectations. Then when one or the other of our expectations isn't later met -- because they don't have the money they truly feel they deserve, because they don't perform at the level I feel is warranted given the sum I'm paying them, etc. -- then what? One of us is ticked off, maybe both. That could easily have been avoided if they merely answered with integrity the question they were asked.

I don't think enough folks realize that simply telling the truth -- among the easiest things one is ever called to do -- is the single most effective means by which one can manage expectations...and we all know the importance of managing expectations. Unfortunately, too many folks think managing expectations means misrepresenting reality. That is manipulating expectations, not managing them.

Red:
The answer to each of those questions for me is that while I understand why one might do as you've indicated, I nonetheless find each and every example to be an illustration of lying and a failing in one's character, a lack of integrity. Wherever and whenever that manifests itself, I consider it to be disingenuous and manipulative, and I understand quite well why one might want to be manipulative. I also don't agree with one's being that way, regardless of how many or how few folks are, and regardless of how effective manipulative behavior might be for achieving one's ends.

 

[Boss]

Well, I tell you something, 320.. If I were interviewing you, there's no way you'd ever get hired. Because before the interview was finished, you'd be trying to argue and nit-pick with me about how to properly conduct the interview. So your ass would get rejected.

This is not that important to me, so I am going to leave this thread now. I don't really give a shit if you understand my point or not and I'm not going to continue arguing with you. I've probably hired several thousand people in my life and I know what the fuck I am talking about. I don't have to prove myself to you or anyone here, I was simply presenting my opinion on the topic. You want to turn it into a "debate" and frankly, I don't feel like debating this.

 

[320 Years of History]

...

This is not that important to me, so I am going to leave this thread now. I don't really give a shit if you understand my point or not and I'm not going to continue arguing with you. I've probably hired several thousand people in my life and I know what the fuck I am talking about. I don't have to prove myself to you or anyone here, I was simply presenting my opinion on the topic. You want to turn it into a "debate" and frankly, I don't feel like debating this.

It's not that I don't understand your point. It's that I find distasteful the ethical principles (or lack thereof, as some might say) that underpin it.

 

[alpine]

Wow, that escalated quickly...