Gay marriage and religious freedom: Why we're concerned

Discussion in 'Religion and Ethics' started by SGdsn, Oct 11, 2010.

  1. SGdsn
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    SGdsn Member

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    Let me explain this for people who think the fear religious people have that their religious freedoms will be infringed upon if gay marriage is legalized.

    This fear is common when it comes to states who legalize gay marriage through the courts, like the situation with California and Prop 8. See, religious people don't believe that gay marriage is a right; no, they really don't. They're not just saying that because they're trying to contradict liberals...they honestly disagree with you. So when they see a court "find" (see: invent) the right to gay marriage, they believe that that judge or judges have effectively taken a side on this contentious cultural, political (see: non-judicial) issue, and they don't trust any legislature, governor, or judicial body who would oppose the will of the people to then protect the people's right to religious freedom.

    I think that's part of the reason why the Yes on 8 side made people believe that their religious freedom would come under attack if Prop 8 passed. Because the people reasoned, "well shoot, if they're willing to overturn the votes of millions of people who voted for Prop 22, they're probably not that concerned about my religious freedoms, either." The right to vote is just as fundamental a right in a democracy as the supposed right to marry is, and you can't expect people to compromise one for the other.

    And then, I'd also say, there's a way for people to get back at a church for not recognizing gay marriages without forcing them to do it: namely, their tax exempt status. See, this is actually contradictory to what they believe, but I think there are some in the gay community spiteful enough to use whatever argument they can get away with. The argument would go like this:

    They could very easily make that argument and find people to accept it. Gay rights groups already tried that once when it came to the Boy Scouts not allowing scoutmasters to be gay. The Supreme Court found that the Boy Scouts have a right to associate with whomever they want, but that hasn't stopped them from challenging their tax-exempt status.

    The point is, the gay marriage lobby is trying to tie "opposition to gay marriage" with "anti-gay discrimination" (since to them it's the same thing) and deal with it the same way. They want to punish everyone who opposes gay marriage in some way, and it doesn't matter if it's at the expense of people's other rights.

    Like I said, they got Prop 22 overturned and that was enacted by the expressed will of the people. They tried to get Prop 8 overturned as a revision and not an amendment (a case you don't even hear about anymore), and then took it to federal court and the governor and AG didn't even defend it.

    People see the legal jujitsu being used to legalize gay marriage at all costs. It should be no wonder why they don't trust these same people who are willing to undermine the votes of millions of people to respect their religious liberties.
     
  2. Oddball
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    Oddball BANNED Supporting Member

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    If dumbbell so-called "conservatives" (whatever the hell that's supposed to mean anymore) would do the true small gubmint thing here and do away with state marriage licenses, this "problem" would go away.

    Fools.
     
  3. SGdsn
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    SGdsn Member

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    ...because it's really up to conservatives to do away with state-sponsored marriages... Liberals are all for doing away with them, but it's conservatives who want to keep them.

    Yeah right.
     
  4. Tom Clancy
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    Tom Clancy Clancy for Ron Paul

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    Who cares if they marry?
     
  5. Oddball
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    Oddball BANNED Supporting Member

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    Some of us call it practicing what you preach.

    Something that seems to elude republicans and fake "conservatives".
     
  6. AllieBaba
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    AllieBaba BANNED

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    The primary fear is that when you make it a violation of civil rights to refuse to marry people, whether it's because of their sexual orientation or anything else, then GOVERNMENT is dictating what the CHURCH must do.

    Next will be making it illegal to preach certain views in the pulpit.
     
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  7. Tom Clancy
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    Tom Clancy Clancy for Ron Paul

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    And the Government is dictating what the people should and shouldn't do, for example gay marriage.

    What authority do you have to dictate who is and isn't allowed to marry?

    Do you follow the constitution? Aren't all men created equal? Or just the people you want?
     
  8. mattskramer
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    mattskramer Senior Member

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    Yours is a weak argument. There are (or will be) churches that will marry gay couples if and when gay marriage becomes legal in a particular state.

    Support and affirmation of marriage rights for same-sex couples increasingly come from those who practice progressive Christianity. Some examples of religious organizations voicing their support for marriage equality include the Metropolitan Community Church, the United Church of Christ, the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ), the Episcopal Church of the United States, the Anglican Church of Canada, the Evangelical Lutheran Church In America and the Unitarian Universalists church which has long supported the rights of gays and lesbians to marry both in the church and through the state.

    Religious views on same-sex marriage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    If not, then the gay couple can go to a Justice of the Peace and get married outside of the church.
     
  9. AllieBaba
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    The Constitution doesn't provide the right of marriage to gay people.

    And the state has no business dictating to the churches what they will and won't do. That's one of the basic tenets of the Constitution. We can worship as we please, so long as we are not violating the rights of others in doing so. And nobody is convinced that gays have a right to be married in any church they so desire.
     
  10. Tom Clancy
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    Of course it doesn't, neither did it provide Civil Rights for Blacks and Women, which brings me back to the "All men are created equal" part of the COTUS.

    Shouldn't it be up to the church? Some churches would probably let Gay people marry, and how many people were for the Civil right's movement back int he 60's?

    Civil rights triumph over Religion.

    Hmm, The state has no business on what Churches do or don't do, so why not let the Church chose if they want to let Gay marriages happen in their church?
     
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