Church cancels teen gun giveaway

[Chris]

Simple lie. Guns don't DO anything except lie there. A PERSON has to USE one or rig one to fire. But hey you like the sound bite don't ya?

Guns make it easy to kill.

You want to make it easier to kill.

I want to make it harder to kill.

That is the difference between us.

 

[Steerpike]

If there is a gun in your house you are more likely to die of a gun death. Guns are a threat to their owners. Suicide is part of that threat.

This is a bit sophmoric given the discussion we're having. I don't have a risk of suicide whether I have guns or not.

And none of your suicide figures give a number for how many of those people would be alive but for the guns, either.

 

[Ninja]

If there is a gun in your house you are more likely to die of a gun death.

We've covered this before, idiot.

Tell me, what's the likelihood of you using deadly force to defend yourself from a serial killer who's standing just outside your bedroom door with a sawed-off shotgun, Korky?

 

[BrianH]

Once again you are changing the subject. The issue is gun deaths not automobiles.

No, I'm not changing the subject. You are using the logic that gun death statistics are high, therefore, they should be banned.... Using your logic for banning guns, we should also ban automobiles considering the death-rate per year and the total number of deaths since 1960 are doubled that of gun deaths. It's not changing the subject at all. It's called putting you in your place and forcing you to not address a damn thing in you next post, other than a crappy accusation of me changing the subject.

You can't cherry-pick statistics to fit your own opinions. If you're going to say that gun death-rates are high, therefore, we should ban guns...then there are many other things we should ban also....correct? What should be done, is ban trigger-happy city-folk who don't know crap about guns and how to be safe with them.

 

[BrianH]

If there is a gun in your house you are more likely to die of a gun death. Guns are a threat to their owners. Suicide is part of that threat.

As opposed to razor-blade deaths, hangings, etc...? I guess we should ban razor-blades, rope, etc... You are not more likely to die by a gun just because you have a gun in you house. If you want to look at statistics, you have to look at the fact that someone may enter your house and try to shoot you, then, the fact that you have a gun in the house may improve your odds of survival. Using your logic, one could be less at risk from dying of a gun-shot wound. Guns are not a threat to owners. Careless gunowners are a threat to themselves, criminals are a threat to law-abiding citizens, and people who kill other people are a threat, period. You could go strangle someone, or hang yourself with a shoelace, guitar-string, etc... does that mean you're more likely to die of a shoe-lace, guitar-string-related death?

 

[BrianH]

No I wouldn't mix it in. The salient info in my mind is whether someone is likely to come try to kill me with a gun. Suicide is outside of that. It doesn't tell me anything about the inherent danger to me due to guns in society.

Like I said before, if you wanted to total the number of people killed every year by doctors, so you could evaluate your risk in a medical procedure, would you include doctor suicides? No. If you wanted to evaluate your risk on the highway, would you include people who turned their car on in their garage and killed themselves? No. None of these are risks to you, so adding them skews the numbers.

What I want to know about these things is what is the risk to me. That's the most sensible question to ask.

Exactly, there's no way to tell who would or would not choose to kill themself with a gun. Some people take pills, some hang themselves, some shoot themselves, etc...

 

[BrianH]

Doctors heal people. Guns kill people. Guns have no purpose except to kill. That is the difference.

I've got 7 guns that have never killed anyone...INFACT, the majority of guns owned by civilians have never killed anyone. How do you like that statistic?


Gun politics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

(It's estimated that 2.5 million crimes ANNUALLY are prevented by civilians using firearms. More than your 1,000,000 number from 1960 to present. More crimes are prevented than what guns actually kill per year.

ALSO...JAPAN has the highest suicide rate in the world..........

 

[Chris]

I've got 7 guns that have never killed anyone...INFACT, the majority of guns owned by civilians have never killed anyone. How do you like that statistic?


Gun politics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

(It's estimated that 2.5 million crimes ANNUALLY are prevented by civilians using firearms. More than your 1,000,000 number from 1960 to present. More crimes are prevented than what guns actually kill per year.

ALSO...JAPAN has the highest suicide rate in the world..........

That 2.5 million crimes prevented figure is bogus. When they interviewed people who claimed to use their gun in self defense, most of the stories were "I got in an argument with my neighbor, so I went and got my gun."

 

[Chris]

No, I'm not changing the subject. You are using the logic that gun death statistics are high, therefore, they should be banned.... Using your logic for banning guns, we should also ban automobiles considering the death-rate per year and the total number of deaths since 1960 are doubled that of gun deaths. It's not changing the subject at all. It's called putting you in your place and forcing you to not address a damn thing in you next post, other than a crappy accusation of me changing the subject.

You can't cherry-pick statistics to fit your own opinions. If you're going to say that gun death-rates are high, therefore, we should ban guns...then there are many other things we should ban also....correct? What should be done, is ban trigger-happy city-folk who don't know crap about guns and how to be safe with them.

It sucks when the facts don't fit your world view. Then you have to blame the "city-folk."

 

[Chris]

Friday, April 17, 1998
U.S. Leads Richest Nations In Gun Deaths




BY CHELSEA J. CARTER
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS



ATLANTA -- The United States has by far the highest rate of gun deaths -- murders, suicides and accidents -- among the world's 36 richest nations, a government study found.
The U.S. rate for gun deaths in 1994 was 14.24 per 100,000 people. Japan had the lowest rate, at .05 per 100,000.
The study, done by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, is the first comprehensive international look at gun-related deaths. It was published Thursday in the International Journal of Epidemiology.
The CDC would not speculate why the death rates varied, but other researchers said easy access to guns and society's acceptance of violence are part of the problem in the United States.
``If you have a country saturated with guns -- available to people when they are intoxicated, angry or depressed -- it's not unusual guns will be used more often,'' said Rebecca Peters, a Johns Hopkins University fellow specializing in gun violence. ``This has to be treated as a public health emergency.''
The National Rifle Association called the study shoddy because it failed to examine all causes of violent deaths.
``What this shows is the CDC is after guns. They aren't concerned with violence. It's pretending that no homicide exists unless it's related to guns,'' said Paul Blackman, a research coordinator for the NRA in Fairfax, Va.
The 36 countries chosen were listed as the richest in the World Bank's 1994 World Development Report, with the highest GNP per capita income.
The study used 1994 statistics supplied by the 36 countries. Of the 88,649 gun deaths reported by all the countries, the United States accounted for 45 percent, said Etienne Krug, a CDC researcher and co-author of the article.
Japan, where very few people own guns, averages 124 gun-related attacks a year, and less than 1 percent end in death. Police often raid the homes of those suspected of having weapons.
The study found that gun-related deaths were five to six times higher in the Americas than in Europe or Australia and New Zealand and 95 times higher than in Asia.
Here are gun-related deaths per 100,000 people in the world's 36 richest countries in 1994: United States 14.24; Brazil 12.95; Mexico 12.69; Estonia 12.26; Argentina 8.93; Northern Ireland 6.63; Finland 6.46; Switzerland 5.31; France 5.15; Canada 4.31; Norway 3.82; Austria 3.70; Portugal 3.20; Israel 2.91; Belgium 2.90; Australia 2.65; Slovenia 2.60; Italy 2.44; New Zealand 2.38; Denmark 2.09; Sweden 1.92; Kuwait 1.84; Greece 1.29; Germany 1.24; Hungary 1.11; Republic of Ireland 0.97; Spain 0.78; Netherlands 0.70; Scotland 0.54; England and Wales 0.41; Taiwan 0.37; Singapore 0.21; Mauritius 0.19; Hong Kong 0.14; South Korea 0.12; Japan 0.05.

 

[BrianH]

That 2.5 million crimes prevented figure is bogus. When they interviewed people who claimed to use their gun in self defense, most of the stories were "I got in an argument with my neighbor, so I went and got my gun."

You consider, two neighbor's arguing a crime? It says CRIMES thwarted....You're pulling your neighbor's arguing out of your butt dude. And you're discrediting my information because 1. It blows your argument and logic out of the water, and 2. it's your usual tactic when that happens....discredit information and make up a baseless opinion most of the crimes they're talking about were two neighbors arguing.

And also, you've chosen to ignore the fact that JAPAN has the highest suicide rate in the world, despite a ban on firearms. Your logic is being shredded to bits and you know it. You can't use your logic on one thing, then not use the same logic with something else with the same/more danger potential.

 

[Chris]

You consider, two neighbor's arguing a crime? It says CRIMES thwarted....You're pulling your neighbor's arguing out of your butt dude. And you're discrediting my information because 1. It blows your argument and logic out of the water, and 2. it's your usual tactic when that happens....discredit information and make up a baseless opinion most of the crimes they're talking about were two neighbors arguing.

And also, you've chosen to ignore the fact that JAPAN has the highest suicide rate in the world, despite a ban on firearms. Your logic is being shredded to bits and you know it. You can't use your logic on one thing, then not use the same logic with something else with the same/more danger potential.

How about a link to the academic study....

 

[Gunny]

Friday, April 17, 1998
U.S. Leads Richest Nations In Gun Deaths




BY CHELSEA J. CARTER
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS



ATLANTA -- The United States has by far the highest rate of gun deaths -- murders, suicides and accidents -- among the world's 36 richest nations, a government study found.
The U.S. rate for gun deaths in 1994 was 14.24 per 100,000 people. Japan had the lowest rate, at .05 per 100,000.
The study, done by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, is the first comprehensive international look at gun-related deaths. It was published Thursday in the International Journal of Epidemiology.
The CDC would not speculate why the death rates varied, but other researchers said easy access to guns and society's acceptance of violence are part of the problem in the United States.
``If you have a country saturated with guns -- available to people when they are intoxicated, angry or depressed -- it's not unusual guns will be used more often,'' said Rebecca Peters, a Johns Hopkins University fellow specializing in gun violence. ``This has to be treated as a public health emergency.''
The National Rifle Association called the study shoddy because it failed to examine all causes of violent deaths.
``What this shows is the CDC is after guns. They aren't concerned with violence. It's pretending that no homicide exists unless it's related to guns,'' said Paul Blackman, a research coordinator for the NRA in Fairfax, Va.
The 36 countries chosen were listed as the richest in the World Bank's 1994 World Development Report, with the highest GNP per capita income.
The study used 1994 statistics supplied by the 36 countries. Of the 88,649 gun deaths reported by all the countries, the United States accounted for 45 percent, said Etienne Krug, a CDC researcher and co-author of the article.
Japan, where very few people own guns, averages 124 gun-related attacks a year, and less than 1 percent end in death. Police often raid the homes of those suspected of having weapons.
The study found that gun-related deaths were five to six times higher in the Americas than in Europe or Australia and New Zealand and 95 times higher than in Asia.
Here are gun-related deaths per 100,000 people in the world's 36 richest countries in 1994: United States 14.24; Brazil 12.95; Mexico 12.69; Estonia 12.26; Argentina 8.93; Northern Ireland 6.63; Finland 6.46; Switzerland 5.31; France 5.15; Canada 4.31; Norway 3.82; Austria 3.70; Portugal 3.20; Israel 2.91; Belgium 2.90; Australia 2.65; Slovenia 2.60; Italy 2.44; New Zealand 2.38; Denmark 2.09; Sweden 1.92; Kuwait 1.84; Greece 1.29; Germany 1.24; Hungary 1.11; Republic of Ireland 0.97; Spain 0.78; Netherlands 0.70; Scotland 0.54; England and Wales 0.41; Taiwan 0.37; Singapore 0.21; Mauritius 0.19; Hong Kong 0.14; South Korea 0.12; Japan 0.05.

Provide a link please, or the article will be removed.

We won't even go into what disenguous swill it is until then.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

This is a bit sophmoric given the discussion we're having. I don't have a risk of suicide whether I have guns or not.

And none of your suicide figures give a number for how many of those people would be alive but for the guns, either.

None of them would be because if they WANTED to die they would use what ever means was available. If they took pills and were rescued in time, the only thing stopping them from doing something else later would be if they had enough support to get through the suicidal period and every one that happened after that.

Suicide is easy. Guns are no easier to kill yourself then rope, buildings ,roads, bridges, pills etc etc. In fact it is HARDER to get a gun for suicide since you have to be old enough , have the money, not be barred from owning one, Buy the bullets, etc etc. Quicker to jump off something or take some pills or step in front of a truck.

 

[Chris]

Provide a link please, or the article will be removed.

We won't even go into what disenguous swill it is until then.

You love your guns, don't you?


Gun Deaths - Health and Medical Information Produced by Doctors - MedicineNet.com

 

[RetiredGySgt]

14.24 per 100,000, that is a rate of .1424 percent, that is right a little over 1/10th of 1 percent.

By the way if that figure were true it would mean 42600 deaths a year to guns. There are not that many deaths in a year to guns, well maybe if you factored in every soldier killed, wait nope not even then.

Your figures are a crock of shit.

 

[Chris]

14.24 per 100,000, that is a rate of .1424 percent, that is right a little over 1/10th of 1 percent.

By the way if that figure were true it would mean 42600 deaths a year to guns. There are not that many deaths in a year to guns, well maybe if you factored in every soldier killed, wait nope not even then.

Your figures are a crock of shit.

The study is from 1994, so your figures are off. The population was lower then. Sorry...

 

[RetiredGySgt]

The study is from 1994, so your figures are off. The population was lower then. Sorry...

There were not 42000 people killed with guns in 1994. Your study is off. But then we all know how trustworthy doctors are, they kill thousands every year for every one gun death. They give us studies like the Lancet report that claimed hundreds of thousands of Iraqis were killed when it was more like around 20 thousand.

But ya you have a credible source there. Now do a study of how many people die every year in car accidents. How many have died since 1960. Give us a sound bite about how if you own a car you are more likely to die in a car accident.

We can do Doctors if you want, Lets pretend your 42k is right that still means 3 to 5 times as many people are killed by doctors by ACCIDENT. Where is that sound bite, If you have a doctor your more likely to be killed by a doctor?

 

[Chris]

There were not 42000 people killed with guns in 1994. Your study is off. But then we all know how trustworthy doctors are, they kill thousands every year for every one gun death. They give us studies like the Lancet report that claimed hundreds of thousands of Iraqis were killed when it was more like around 20 thousand.

But ya you have a credible source there. Now do a study of how many people die every year in car accidents. How many have died since 1960. Give us a sound bite about how if you own a car you are more likely to die in a car accident.

We can do Doctors if you want, Lets pretend your 42k is right that still means 3 to 5 times as many people are killed by doctors by ACCIDENT. Where is that sound bite, If you have a doctor your more likely to be killed by a doctor?

This is a more recent article. Sorry you can't accept reality.

The cost of firearm deaths in the United States: reduced life expectancies and increased insurance costs. | North America > United States from AllBusiness.com

 

[RetiredGySgt]

This is a more recent article. Sorry you can't accept reality.

The cost of firearm deaths in the United States: reduced life expectancies and increased insurance costs. | North America > United States from AllBusiness.com

Must suck to be you and knowing the Supreme Court cut the legs out from under all your dreams of stealing everyones guns. Maybe you should see a shrink about that before YOU get too depressed and go buy a gun?