Catholics in the News

[Sky Dancer]

Officials in Belgium seem well within their rights to press their investigation into child abuse at the hands of Catholic priests and coverups by high church officials. The Catholic Church has exhausted what would otherwise be a strong public presumption that it could handle such cases itself. In April, for example, Belgium’s longest-serving bishop, Roger Vangheluwe, stepped down after confessing to sexually abusing a young boy as a priest as well as when he was serving as archbishop.

That kind of repeated behavior, without intervention from the church, has forced the hand of Belgian civil authorities. Depending on what the investigation discovers, authorities in other countries may begin to take similar action.
Civil authorities right to intervene in Catholic abuse inquiry | Jay Bookman

 

[Gadawg73]

You certainly are a defender of the RCC, Gadawg. It is disingenious to claim otherwise. Your concern for the sanctity of jurisdictional laws is moving, but there is no other nation on Planet Earth comparable to the Holy See, and pretending that decisions regarding it are going to affect Americans (apart from allowing American victims to collect) is an error.

I would also appreciate it, if you truly have worked with victims, that you respect their privacy and your duty of confidentiality. I'm very sorry you see these people as motivated by greed, but it is not your place to broadcast the terms of failed settlement offers on message boards. Unless, of course, your true purpose is to defend the RCC by any means....as it has been the Vatican's.

Protection of privacy? The invasion in Belgium exposed all of those victims to the media and press with that raid. That hurt the victims more than anyone else.
Madeline, respectfully, if you prosecute a case criminally there is no privacy. The victims HAVE TO testify.
The families are more concerned with the civil cases. $, NOT prosecution pays for the needed counseling.
The lawyers are motivated by greed and I am not necessarily opposed to that.
You folks are naive as hell if you believe this is some kind of international protection cult racket going on. Most of the cases I have seen have had the full cooperation of the RCC. Many haven't and we find those cases mainly in the northeast.
We have a very low opinion of child abuse in any form these ways. However, we know myth from fact and the myths distinguishing the RCC from any other form of religion when it comes to secrecy is absurd. When confronted with bad news that will hurt their pocket books religions always CTA.

 

[Sky Dancer]

You certainly are a defender of the RCC, Gadawg. It is disingenious to claim otherwise. Your concern for the sanctity of jurisdictional laws is moving, but there is no other nation on Planet Earth comparable to the Holy See, and pretending that decisions regarding it are going to affect Americans (apart from allowing American victims to collect) is an error.

I would also appreciate it, if you truly have worked with victims, that you respect their privacy and your duty of confidentiality. I'm very sorry you see these people as motivated by greed, but it is not your place to broadcast the terms of failed settlement offers on message boards. Unless, of course, your true purpose is to defend the RCC by any means....as it has been the Vatican's.

Protection of privacy? The invasion in Belgium exposed all of those victims to the media and press with that raid. That hurt the victims more than anyone else.
Madeline, respectfully, if you prosecute a case criminally there is no privacy. The victims HAVE TO testify.
The families are more concerned with the civil cases. $, NOT prosecution pays for the needed counseling.
The lawyers are motivated by greed and I am not necessarily opposed to that.
You folks are naive as hell if you believe this is some kind of international protection cult racket going on. Most of the cases I have seen have had the full cooperation of the RCC. Many haven't and we find those cases mainly in the northeast.
We have a very low opinion of child abuse in any form these ways. However, we know myth from fact and the myths distinguishing the RCC from any other form of religion when it comes to secrecy is absurd. When confronted with bad news that will hurt their pocket books religions always CTA.

Actually, the raid in Belgium hurt the RCC. Why else would they have publically protested? I wonder if the victims actually want to testify? While it is painful, I think the victims would have a vested interest in seeing the perpetrators prosecuted.

 

[Madeline]

So often, there have been claims that other religions rival the RCC in child abuse and cover ups. I'd like to see some evidence of this, because my sense of the facts is that there is NO organization on Planet Earth that can "compete" with the RCC in this regard.

The RCC seems to stand alone in the depth of its evil.

 

[Sky Dancer]

So often, there have been claims that other religions rival the RCC in child abuse and cover ups. I'd like to see some evidence of this, because my sense of the facts is that there is NO organization on Planet Earth that can "compete" with the RCC in this regard.

The RCC seems to stand alone in the depth of its evil.

I don't know that I'd go quite that far, Madeline, neither do I excuse their unconscionable policies of protecting pedophile priests.

They don't seem to get it no matter how many lawsuits are filed.

 

[Madeline]

I don't think the RCC is going to get it unless and until a death blow is landed.

Demand that Pope Benedict and any other clergy involved in child abuse cover ups resigns...immediately. Open the records to anyone who wants them.

 

[Barb]

So often, there have been claims that other religions rival the RCC in child abuse and cover ups. I'd like to see some evidence of this, because my sense of the facts is that there is NO organization on Planet Earth that can "compete" with the RCC in this regard.

The RCC seems to stand alone in the depth of its evil.

I think it has more to do with the unnatural nature of the lives they are required to lead to serve the church. A lifetime of celibacy is not a natural or healthy state.

 

[FA_Q2]

So often, there have been claims that other religions rival the RCC in child abuse and cover ups. I'd like to see some evidence of this, because my sense of the facts is that there is NO organization on Planet Earth that can "compete" with the RCC in this regard.

The RCC seems to stand alone in the depth of its evil.

I think it has more to do with the unnatural nature of the lives they are required to lead to serve the church. A lifetime of celibacy is not a natural or healthy state.

That certainly is a major player here as well as the sheer POWER that the church itself wields. There are those that have ultimate devotion to the church and its representatives and that power is very prone to corruption. Do not forget that not only does the lifestyle ATTRACT people like this but the system HIDES these people. To anyone that denies this there is plenty of evidence in the trials that have come to pass for it. Many of these priests were MOVED AROUND to avoid detection and save face rather than condemning them. I would not prescribe to a major cover-up of conspiracy. I believe that is rather absurd but there are local instances where several layers or clergy were involved in cover-ups and I belive that speaks to the overall climate within the church. It seems to me that the church values politics and power FAR more than it cares about religion and faith.

 

[Newby]

The Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests (SNAP) has released this statement:

This raid is precisely what's needed, not just in Belgium but in other church offices across the globe. Law enforcement officials must stop giving the Catholic hierarchy a 'free pass' when it comes to clergy sex crimes and cover ups. Police and prosecutors need to step up, and promptly and thoroughly investigate allegations against predator priests and corrupt bishops, and use their full powers to gain access to and control over church records that likely document the crimes and cover ups.

Kids will be safer only when secular authorities stop giving excessive deference to church officials and start doing all that they can to catch, expose, prosecute and jail both child molesting clerics and their complicit colleagues and supervisors.

We call on all citizens of Belgium - Catholic and non-Catholic - to contact law enforcement with any information or suspicions they may have - however old, small, or seemingly insignificant - so that this can be an effective investigation that results in the imprisonment of those who hurt children and those who enable others to hurt children
Clergy]Clergy Abuse Investigators Raid Church Headquarters, Cardinal's Home in Belgium - Belief Beat Abuse Investigators Raid Church Headquarters, Cardinal's Home in Belgium - Belief Beat[/url]

When are we going to start raiding mosques across the globe looking for terrorists?

 

[Newby]

That Church needs a thorough sweeping.

Its cabal of pederastes needs to be rootede out from the OUTSIDE.

The Church obviously cannot do it since so many of the cabal are LEADERS of the CHURCH.

To those of you who are good Catholics, I am sorry.

I know that most of you are thoroughly decent people, but your church is infected with an evil cabal, and since you laymen are powerless to stop them, it falls to the governments to try to root it out.

I do not think the governments will succeed, by the way.

That infection of conspiring pederastes is NOT LIMITED to the Mother Church.

Plenty of that happening in our governments, too.

Do you feel the same is true of parts of Islam?

 

[Barb]

That Church needs a thorough sweeping.

Its cabal of pederastes needs to be rootede out from the OUTSIDE.

The Church obviously cannot do it since so many of the cabal are LEADERS of the CHURCH.

To those of you who are good Catholics, I am sorry.

I know that most of you are thoroughly decent people, but your church is infected with an evil cabal, and since you laymen are powerless to stop them, it falls to the governments to try to root it out.

I do not think the governments will succeed, by the way.

That infection of conspiring pederastes is NOT LIMITED to the Mother Church.

Plenty of that happening in our governments, too.

Do you feel the same is true of parts of Islam?

Really? Your response to this is "Bbbbut, Mooommmm...billy,?"

 

[FA_Q2]

The Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests (SNAP) has released this statement:

This raid is precisely what's needed, not just in Belgium but in other church offices across the globe. Law enforcement officials must stop giving the Catholic hierarchy a 'free pass' when it comes to clergy sex crimes and cover ups. Police and prosecutors need to step up, and promptly and thoroughly investigate allegations against predator priests and corrupt bishops, and use their full powers to gain access to and control over church records that likely document the crimes and cover ups.

Kids will be safer only when secular authorities stop giving excessive deference to church officials and start doing all that they can to catch, expose, prosecute and jail both child molesting clerics and their complicit colleagues and supervisors.

We call on all citizens of Belgium - Catholic and non-Catholic - to contact law enforcement with any information or suspicions they may have - however old, small, or seemingly insignificant - so that this can be an effective investigation that results in the imprisonment of those who hurt children and those who enable others to hurt children
Clergy]Clergy Abuse Investigators Raid Church Headquarters, Cardinal's Home in Belgium - Belief Beat Abuse Investigators Raid Church Headquarters, Cardinal's Home in Belgium - Belief Beat[/url]

When are we going to start raiding mosques across the globe looking for terrorists?

Yes, if there is evidence that they are harboring them. Then of course, we already are doing that are we not?

 

[editec]

"Foreign nations are typically immune from civil actions in U.S. courts, but there are exceptions to the Foreign Sovereign Immunity Act which courts have said could be applied in the Kentucky case.

Bringing a head of state like the pope to a deposition in the U.S. is nearly an impossible legal hurdle to overcome, said Jonathan Levy, a Washington attorney who has sued the Vatican on behalf of Holocaust victims.

"I doubt very much a U.S. court would want to make an order that it knows it's not going to be able to enforce," Levy said. "How can a federal judge force a head of state to attend a deposition?"
The Associated Press: Vatican: Ky. abuse lawsuit lacks link to Rome

What most Americans lack is an understanding of the law. If we allow this then every nation and court on earth will have free will to subpoena deep pocket Americans and corporations for depos worldwide.
What this boils down to is $$$. I am no defender of the Catholic church but have seen the tens of millions turned down by claimants in these cases. Stubbornly litigous claimants need to take the multi million offers and settle these cases in the civil courts. The criminal courts will be dealt with the later. Jurisdictional laws should never be cast aside. If they are Americans WILL be the first to suffer long term. Bad precedence. Think about it.

Hey! ~ very interesting point, there, Gad.

But the issue of the VATICAN being a national entity is, I think, THE important distinction.

In fact, courts around the world CAN already subpoena deep pocket Americans and corporations for depos worldwide.

In fact those courts don't much matter UNLESS the US government is willing to work with them to fgorce those people to respond.

Isn't Henry Kissinger ALREADY unable to visit some nations in EUROPE as a result of their courts deciding that he must testify on issues pertaining to his actions?

The reason this RC church scandal is co complex is because of the nature of the relationship between the USA and the Vatican.

We recognize that organization as a STATE.

Ergo, forcing their officers (Bishop and so forth) to appear in court, if they are not already in the USA, is not possible.

If the USA wanted to get tough, it could (I suppose) freeze the assets of the RC church in the USA, mucn in the same way we've done to Iran and other nations we were having a pissing match with.

Now we KNOW that's gonna happen, right?

 

[editec]

"Foreign nations are typically immune from civil actions in U.S. courts, but there are exceptions to the Foreign Sovereign Immunity Act which courts have said could be applied in the Kentucky case.

Bringing a head of state like the pope to a deposition in the U.S. is nearly an impossible legal hurdle to overcome, said Jonathan Levy, a Washington attorney who has sued the Vatican on behalf of Holocaust victims.

"I doubt very much a U.S. court would want to make an order that it knows it's not going to be able to enforce," Levy said. "How can a federal judge force a head of state to attend a deposition?"
The Associated Press: Vatican: Ky. abuse lawsuit lacks link to Rome

What most Americans lack is an understanding of the law. If we allow this then every nation and court on earth will have free will to subpoena deep pocket Americans and corporations for depos worldwide.
What this boils down to is $$$. I am no defender of the Catholic church but have seen the tens of millions turned down by claimants in these cases. Stubbornly litigous claimants need to take the multi million offers and settle these cases in the civil courts. The criminal courts will be dealt with the later. Jurisdictional laws should never be cast aside. If they are Americans WILL be the first to suffer long term. Bad precedence. Think about it.

Hey! ~ very interesting point, there, Gad.

But the issue of the VATICAN being a national entity is, I think, THE important distinction.

In fact, courts around the world CAN already subpoena deep pocket Americans and corporations for depos worldwide.

In fact those courts don't much matter UNLESS the US government is willing to work with them to fgorce those people to respond.

Isn't Henry Kissinger ALREADY unable to visit some nations in EUROPE as a result of their courts deciding that he must testify on issues pertaining to his actions?

The reason this RC church scandal is co complex is because of the nature of the relationship between the USA and the Vatican.

We recognize that organization as a STATE.

Ergo, forcing their officers (Bishop and so forth) to appear in court, if they are not already in the USA, is not possible.

If the USA wanted to get tough, it could (I suppose) freeze the assets of the RC church in the USA, mucn in the same way we've done to Iran and other nations we were having a pissing match with.

Now we KNOW that's gonna not happen, right?

 

[editec]

"Foreign nations are typically immune from civil actions in U.S. courts, but there are exceptions to the Foreign Sovereign Immunity Act which courts have said could be applied in the Kentucky case.

Bringing a head of state like the pope to a deposition in the U.S. is nearly an impossible legal hurdle to overcome, said Jonathan Levy, a Washington attorney who has sued the Vatican on behalf of Holocaust victims.

"I doubt very much a U.S. court would want to make an order that it knows it's not going to be able to enforce," Levy said. "How can a federal judge force a head of state to attend a deposition?"
The Associated Press: Vatican: Ky. abuse lawsuit lacks link to Rome

What most Americans lack is an understanding of the law. If we allow this then every nation and court on earth will have free will to subpoena deep pocket Americans and corporations for depos worldwide.
What this boils down to is $$$. I am no defender of the Catholic church but have seen the tens of millions turned down by claimants in these cases. Stubbornly litigous claimants need to take the multi million offers and settle these cases in the civil courts. The criminal courts will be dealt with the later. Jurisdictional laws should never be cast aside. If they are Americans WILL be the first to suffer long term. Bad precedence. Think about it.

Hey! ~ very interesting point, there, Gad.

But the issue of the VATICAN being a national entity is, I think, THE important distinction.

In fact, courts around the world CAN already subpoena deep pocket Americans and corporations for depos worldwide.

In fact those courts don't much matter UNLESS the US government is willing to work with them to fgorce those people to respond.

Isn't Henry Kissinger ALREADY unable to visit some nations in EUROPE as a result of their courts deciding that he must testify on issues pertaining to his actions?

The reason this RC church scandal is co complex is because of the nature of the relationship between the USA and the Vatican.

We recognize that organization as a NATION STATE.

Ergo, forcing their officers (Bishops and so forth) to appear in court, if they are not already in the USA, is not possible.

If the USA wanted to get tough, it could (I suppose) freeze the assets of the RC church in the USA, much in the same way we've done to Iran and other nations we were having a pissing match with.

Now we KNOW that's gonna not happen, right?

 

[FA_Q2]

If the USA wanted to get tough, it could (I suppose) freeze the assets of the RC church in the USA, mucn in the same way we've done to Iran and other nations we were having a pissing match with.

Now we KNOW that's gonna not happen, right?

Nor should it. The Vatican in not sponsoring this behavior and I do not believe that the grater policy here is to hide these individuals. The environment that the church operates in DOES cause that but the institution as a whole is not responsible. The individuals that are operating here and have covered these things up should be fully prosecuted but this is not a witch hunt. If they come to this country then, by all means, detain them until the truth has been proven but if they are not involved then we need not go any further.

 

[Sky Dancer]

If the USA wanted to get tough, it could (I suppose) freeze the assets of the RC church in the USA, mucn in the same way we've done to Iran and other nations we were having a pissing match with.

Now we KNOW that's gonna not happen, right?

Nor should it. The Vatican in not sponsoring this behavior and I do not believe that the grater policy here is to hide these individuals. The environment that the church operates in DOES cause that but the institution as a whole is not responsible. The individuals that are operating here and have covered these things up should be fully prosecuted but this is not a witch hunt. If they come to this country then, by all means, detain them until the truth has been proven but if they are not involved then we need not go any further.

The Vatican certainly sponsored pedophile priests through their long standing policy of moving priests around and protecting them from prosecution. The Vatican is ultimately responsible for the actions of their employees--pedophile priests.

 

[Madeline]

Pope Benedict is personally involved in at least two such scandals that we know of, one involving the abuse of over 200 children. It is beyond belief that the Vatican has not known all along about every priest who was moved, "tried" in canonical law trials, "sent to rehab", etc. And of course, has known in detail about every Bishop's decision to pay victims or to cover up.

No one gets to be a bishop unless appointed by the Vatican. The RCC needs transparency on this issue and will never give it willingly. It's about time they were treated as the criminal organization that they are.

 

[Sky Dancer]

I was surprised to hear about this:

"In Africa, where Catholic priests often have open heterosexual contact, the church's ranks are hefty with converts only a few generations removed from the illiterate, poor, uneducated innocents that missionaries first discovered living in tribal communities. Totally unaware of concepts like gender equity or criminal punishment for sexual assault, many of those locals came to a church that offered food, medical care and education in exchange for religious conversion. If there were crimes also committed around them, congregants paid for their survival with their silence.

The crisis of religious abuse in Africa and India was brought to Rome's attention in 1998 when a four-page paper titled "The Problem of the Sexual Abuse of African Religious in Africa and Rome" was presented by Sister Marie McDonald, mother superior of the Missionaries of Our Lady of Africa. A March 2001 National Catholic Reporter article detailed McDonald's claims, which included accounts of sexual abuse by priests and bishops.

The AIDS pandemic in Africa and India is said to have made nuns "safer" sex partners and, also for that reason, targets of priests seeking sex. (Some nuns also reported sexual abuse by mothers superior.) The women, culturally brainwashed not to challenge men or female figures of authority, felt they had no choice, and the priests took further advantage by arguing that Catholic rules for priests required them to have sex "only with virgins."

More allegations came from Sister Jesme, an ex-nun from the Indian state of Kerala, who told of sexual abuse and forced homosexual relationships in a 2009 autobiography. But when the book was released, a spokesman for the Syro-Malabar order of the Catholic Church in India dismissed it as a "book of trivialities."

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2010/04/23/next_catholic_priest_abuse_scandal

 

[Newby]

That Church needs a thorough sweeping.

Its cabal of pederastes needs to be rootede out from the OUTSIDE.

The Church obviously cannot do it since so many of the cabal are LEADERS of the CHURCH.

To those of you who are good Catholics, I am sorry.

I know that most of you are thoroughly decent people, but your church is infected with an evil cabal, and since you laymen are powerless to stop them, it falls to the governments to try to root it out.

I do not think the governments will succeed, by the way.

That infection of conspiring pederastes is NOT LIMITED to the Mother Church.

Plenty of that happening in our governments, too.

Do you feel the same is true of parts of Islam?

Really? Your response to this is "Bbbbut, Mooommmm...billy,?"

Well, your response doesn't surprise me in the least. I completely agree about what is being said regarding the Catholic church. What I find interesting is that you see these conversations taking place everywhere and the Catholic church being run thru the coals, and rightly so. But you never see the same sort of questioning going on about the foundation of the Islamic church and what evil they allow to get promoted within their religion and the thousands that have lost their lives, including children, because of what is promoted behind their doors. It's not as tho it is covered up, it's actually promoted in some of them. Yet the same type of people in here talking about the Catholic church will stand up and defend the Islamic church against such criticism.