Catholics in the News

[Sky Dancer]

A policy adhered to by bishops on at least four continents didn't arise by coincidence. Nor was church property set aside in a misguided effort to rehabilitate such offenders without Vatican approval. If the RCC had committed these crimes without the veil of religion, most Americans would be calling for the Pope's execution.

I doubt they would be calling for the Pope's execution, but they would be calling for his criminal indictment. Here is another story:

ST PAUL: Pope Benedict and other senior Vatican officials are facing legal action from an alleged victim of a Catholic priest accused of sexually abusing hundreds of children in the US over several decades.

A lawyer for the victim said he was taking legal action against the pope, his second-in-command Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone and Cardinal Angelo Sodano, dean of the College of Cardinals, for failing to defrock the priest.

The Vatican dismissed the suit as illegitimate. “The case against the Holy See and its officials is completely without merit. Most of the complaint rehashes old theories already rejected by US courts,” Vatican lawyer Jeffrey Lena said.

At a news conference in St Paul in Minnesota on Thursday, lawyer Jeff Anderson said the plaintiff was filing a federal lawsuit against the three men for failing to defrock Father Lawrence Murphy.

Murphy, a Wisconsin priest, is alleged to have molested as many as 200 deaf children at a Wisconsin school from 1950 to 1974, when he was sacked after begin accused of sex offences against minors. Anderson said the alleged victim sent certified letters to the Vatican in 1995 asking for Murphy to be defrocked but that he received no response.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/5850675.cms

 

[Sky Dancer]

This resource examines whether the Pope can be sued or if he has diplomatic immunity:

Judge Fernandez, observes,

"I think that the problem this case seems to present lies in the fact that Holy See is an unusual type of foreign sovereign. Most governments do, indeed, exist to afford their citizens a degree of physical protection and guidance, so that they may thrive in this world. Holy See is more focused on the next world, and that makes a universe of difference. Because of that, Holy See’s sovereign activities are not simply the passage of mortal laws and the enforcement of those. They, basically, encompass the furnishing of the kinds of services that only Holy See can give: its own kind of religious help, guidance and counseling. It may do more than most sovereigns do, but it is not engaged in the market or in commerce. In short, Holy See may not be your typical sovereign, but neither is it your typical merchant. Does that lead to some kind of impasse? Of course not. It leads back to the statute itself. Holy See is a foreign state and the commercial activity exception does not strip its immunity from it. Something else may do so, but not that exception. We hierophants of the law are adept at redefining ordinary concepts, but it is no more appropriate to declare that religious services are commercial activities than it would be to declare that ponies are small birds. Therefore, if we had jurisdiction I would not apply the commercial activity exception to this case.[citations omitted]

Judge Berzon, dissenting in part, argued that the court has subject-matter jurisdiction over the commercial activity exception as an alternative ground on appeal:
“The district court’s discomfort notwithstanding, under well-established FSIA principles and our own binding case law the employment relationship that existed between Ronan and the Holy See does constitute “commercial activity of a foreign state.’”

According to SCOTUSBlog, the Holy See's petition for certiorari remains in judicial purgatory:

"The Vatican case in which the Court invited the U.S. Solicitor General to weigh in on an attempt by the Holy See to head off a damages lawsuit in federal court in Oregon over alleged sexual abuse by a parish priest in Portland in 1965 and 1966. The lawsuit was filed by an individual identified in court papers only as “John V. Doe.” The lawsuit claimed that the Foreign Sovereign Immunities Act, which normally shields foreign governments from damage claims in U.S. courts for official actions, allows such a case to go forward if a government was responsible for one of its employees’ conduct, taken as part of their regular work.


The Vatican is formally a foreign government. The Ninth Circuit Court ruled that the “John Doe” lawsuit could go ahead, relying on an Oregon law that makes an employer responsible for an employee’s misconduct, if the employee had been placed in a position that later led to the wrongdoing — even when the wrongdoing itself was outside the scope of the employee’s job.


The Supreme Court will await the federal government’s response before deciding whether to hear the case and rule on it. There is no deadline for the Solicitor General’s response."

The Trial Warrior Blog: So You Wanna Sue the Pope?

 

[Madeline]

It may take many more years, but these cases make me more hopeful that justice will someday be done and that this evil practice will someday end.

 

[Sky Dancer]

It may take many more years, but these cases make me more hopeful that justice will someday be done and that this evil practice will someday end.

The whole world is watching and cases of child sexual abuse by priests in many different countries are chipping away little by little at the Vatican's immunity.

 

[editec]

That the RC church is treated as a national entity with the right and previleges normally associated with a national entity is a historical anamoly.

We grant no such honors and rights to any other religion, nor should we grant that to the RC church.

If ANY other organization had such a persistent patter of anitsocial behavior and victimization of children they'd be facing RICO charges.

It's time to end this fisaco, folks.

No offense to you RCs but enough is enough!

 

[Madeline]

I completely agree, editec.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Here's a rather brusing editorial:

"I do not care about the bruised feelings of church leaders. What matters the most are the hundreds and hundreds of abused victims who were prey to these predators. The church did not protect them, choosing instead to cover for these wretched individuals.

In Oregon, Archbishop John G. Vlazny asked all of the Catholic ministers in the diocese to cancel their subscriptions to the Oregonian newspaper because of an editorial denouncing the church's feeble reaction in the past to sex scandals."

The Rev. Raniero Cantalamessa — preacher of the papal household, commonly known as Pope Benedict XVI's personal preacher — even had the audacity to compare the assault on the church to the persecution of Jews.

The New York Times reported Cantalamessa as saying:

"They know from experience what it means to be victims of collective violence and also because of this they are quick to recognize the recurring symptoms."

He added that he got a letter from a Jewish friend that said, "I am following the violent and concentric attacks against the church, the pope and all the faithful by the whole world. The use of stereotypes, the passing from personal responsibility and guilt to a collective guilt, remind me of the more shameful aspects of anti-Semitism."

The fundamental reason the sexual abuse scandals continue to widen is that the Catholic Church, as an institution, has tried to have it both ways. Leaders want to issue statements denouncing the acts, while offering compassion, counseling and forgiveness to those who committed the sins.

But the real issue is trust. When the church has protected these priestly predators, they are aiding and abetting them. Instead, the Catholic Church should do like Jesus, who turned over the tables and threw out the money-changers. He needed to root evil out of the synagogues.

The church must remove every priest, bishop or cardinal who turned a blind eye and allowed this to fester, even it means cutting all ties with them. There have been settlements nationwide, and every lawsuit should be disposed of globally. The church should put in transparent rules and procedures that lets the faithful know that any allegation from this point on will be dealt with immediately; it won't just be investigated by the church, but will also be raised to local law enforcement authorities.

People no longer trust the Catholic Church because it has been culpable in the past. And making excuses and lashing out at its present critics will do nothing to rebuild the unshakeable trust people once had by these so-called men of God.

Catholic Church Leaders Wrong to Play Victim in Sex Abuse Scandals by Roland S. Martin on Creators.com - A Syndicate Of Talent

 

[Madeline]

What makes that especially offensive is that Pope Pius XIV turned his back on Italian Jews and later became the most famous Holocaust denier to ever live.

If the RCC expects lay people to rise up in anger to defend them from the inevitable, I'm betting that's a mistake. Most folks are Mommies and Daddies first, and only Catholics second. Blind obedience to every command given by a priest or bishop is more or less how this criminal activity was able to occur for so long.

 

[Sky Dancer]

What makes that especially offensive is that Pope Pius XIV turned his back on Italian Jews and later became the most famous Holocaust denier to ever live.

If the RCC expects lay people to rise up in anger to defend them from the inevitable, I'm betting that's a mistake. Most folks are Mommies and Daddies first, and only Catholics second. Blind obedience to every command given by a priest or bishop is more or less how this criminal activity was able to occur for so long.

I'm not sure you have the right pope Madeline. Did you mean Pope Pius the 12th? If so you may be wrong or it's at least, debateable:


"It is estimated that the actions of Pius XII directly led to the saving of 800,000 Jewish lives during the war. The estimate of 800,000 Jewish lives is based upon the testimony of the post-war government of the recently created State of Israel which recognized and honored that pope’s contribution.

The Israelis recognized the figure and a forest of as many trees was planted in commemoration in the Negeb, SE of Jerusalem, and was shown to Pope Paul VI with some ceremony on his first state visit to Israel.

Rev. Fr. Jean Charles-Roux, now a Rosininian priest living in London and whose father was French Ambassador to the Holy See in the 30’s, lived with his family in Rome during the fateful pre-war period. He recalls that the Pope told his father as early as 1935 that the new regime in Germany was "diabolical." The Ambassador frequently warned his government but the general reaction in France seems to have been that it was good to see the back of the Prussian militarist and that it was no bad thing that an Austrian-Czech house painter was now Chancellor."
Pope Pius XII And The Holocaust

 

[Madeline]

Thankies for the correction! My memory is more and more sieve like every day -- soon I'll be googling for how to spell my own name, LOL.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Thankies for the correction! My memory is more and more sieve like every day -- soon I'll be googling for how to spell my own name, LOL.

I am curious as to which Pope you meant.

 

[Madeline]

Vatican publicly rebukes Austria's Cardinal Christoph Schoenborn for criticism of sex-abuse coverups | cleveland.com

Pope Benedict tells clergy they have no right to criticize others who committed abuse or covered it up. This is the thinking of the man who claims to be God's Emissary on Earth? Selfish, corrupt and foolish?

 

[Gadawg73]

"Foreign nations are typically immune from civil actions in U.S. courts, but there are exceptions to the Foreign Sovereign Immunity Act which courts have said could be applied in the Kentucky case.

Bringing a head of state like the pope to a deposition in the U.S. is nearly an impossible legal hurdle to overcome, said Jonathan Levy, a Washington attorney who has sued the Vatican on behalf of Holocaust victims.

"I doubt very much a U.S. court would want to make an order that it knows it's not going to be able to enforce," Levy said. "How can a federal judge force a head of state to attend a deposition?"
The Associated Press: Vatican: Ky. abuse lawsuit lacks link to Rome

What most Americans lack is an understanding of the law. If we allow this then every nation and court on earth will have free will to subpoena deep pocket Americans and corporations for depos worldwide.
What this boils down to is $$$. I am no defender of the Catholic church but have seen the tens of millions turned down by claimants in these cases. Stubbornly litigous claimants need to take the multi million offers and settle these cases in the civil courts. The criminal courts will be dealt with the later. Jurisdictional laws should never be cast aside. If they are Americans WILL be the first to suffer long term. Bad precedence. Think about it.

 

[Madeline]

Thankies for the correction! My memory is more and more sieve like every day -- soon I'll be googling for how to spell my own name, LOL.

I am curious as to which Pope you meant.

Pius XII, who was Pope during WW II.

 

[Barb]

Gadawg73:

If we allow this then every nation and court on earth will have free will to subpoena deep pocket Americans and corporations for depos worldwide.

Oddly enough, I'm totally okay with that.

 

[Madeline]

You certainly are a defender of the RCC, Gadawg. It is disingenious to claim otherwise. Your concern for the sanctity of jurisdictional laws is moving, but there is no other nation on Planet Earth comparable to the Holy See, and pretending that decisions regarding it are going to affect Americans (apart from allowing American victims to collect) is an error.

I would also appreciate it, if you truly have worked with victims, that you respect their privacy and your duty of confidentiality. I'm very sorry you see these people as motivated by greed, but it is not your place to broadcast the terms of failed settlement offers on message boards. Unless, of course, your true purpose is to defend the RCC by any means....as it has been the Vatican's.

 

[Madeline]

Gadawg73:

If we allow this then every nation and court on earth will have free will to subpoena deep pocket Americans and corporations for depos worldwide.

Oddly enough, I'm totally okay with that.

If this were true, India would be able to claw back money and personnel from Union Carbide for the Bhopal disaster. So far, that has not happened.

 

[Sky Dancer]

The US Supreme Court declined Monday to hear an appeal by the Vatican for immunity in a high-profile pedophilia case, dealing a setback to The Holy See as it tries to protect itself from a litany of sex abuse cases.

The court refused without comment to consider whether the Vatican has legal immunity over the sexual abuse of minors by priests in the United States, allowing a lower court suit filed in 2002 to proceed.

The plaintiff in the case, identified only as John V. Doe, was abused multiple times in 1965 when he was a teenager, by an alleged pedophile priest, Father Andrew Ronan, in Portland, Oregon.

Before being accused of the offenses in Oregon, Ronan, who died in 1992, allegedly sexually molested seminarians in Ireland and children in Chicago.

An attorney for the plaintiff on Monday praised the "courage of the justices" in deciding against the Vatican. Six of the nine justices on America's highest court are Catholic.
AFP: Setback for Vatican in key US pedophilia case

 

[Barb]

Gadawg73:

If we allow this then every nation and court on earth will have free will to subpoena deep pocket Americans and corporations for depos worldwide.

Oddly enough, I'm totally okay with that.

If this were true, India would be able to claw back money and personnel from Union Carbide for the Bhopal disaster. So far, that has not happened.

"If we allow this..."
There's a qualifier there.
You shouldn't attack Gadawd73, but argue your points. His is a conservative outlook, but an honest and intellectually consistent one, and one that takes up more than a few socially liberal stands based on the information that makes sense to him. Argue your point reasonably, and even if he disagrees he'll do so respectfully. Its a rare thing, here and elsewhere. It should be encouraged.

 

[Madeline]

Mebbe so, Barb.