Breaking News: Restaurants Closing All Over Seattle As $15 Minimum Wage Mandate Starts April 1st.

[hadit]

That's the thing, they'll never do that. People like to site that there's little historical evidence that minimum wage laws have negative consequences. But the minimum has always been so low as to be of little consequence in general.

Of course there are consequences. Lets talk about restaurant. Is it cheaper to have prep crew to wash and chop salad heads and other veggies into salad or to just buy premaid salad mix and throw it onto plate? What's the difference between two? Labor. If we compare Seattle with some cheaper inner city, I think that guy that chop salad in Seattle is about to lose his job in favor to some other guy that makes premixed salad for less money elsewhere.

I predict food assemblers will relatively soon be replaced by automated machines that can do a better, more consist job. Why pay labor costs for workers that call out sick, show up late, do shoddy work because they don't care when you can expense capital for machines that do none of those things?

 

[Ame®icano]

That's the thing, they'll never do that. People like to site that there's little historical evidence that minimum wage laws have negative consequences. But the minimum has always been so low as to be of little consequence in general.

Of course there are consequences. Lets talk about restaurant. Is it cheaper to have prep crew to wash and chop salad heads and other veggies into salad or to just buy premaid salad mix and throw it onto plate? What's the difference between two? Labor. If we compare Seattle with some cheaper inner city, I think that guy that chop salad in Seattle is about to lose his job in favor to some other guy that makes premixed salad for less money elsewhere.

I predict food assemblers will relatively soon be replaced by automated machines that can do a better, more consist job. Why pay labor costs for workers that call out sick, show up late, do shoddy work because they don't care when you can expense capital for machines that do none of those things?

When your computer doesn't perform good enough for your work, you upgrade it or replace it with new, faster one. If you have no use of old one, you dispose it. If replacing that assembler with machine is cheaper for employer, though luck for assembler then. He needs to add some upgrades to his set of skills to become relevant again.

 

[hadit]

That's the thing, they'll never do that. People like to site that there's little historical evidence that minimum wage laws have negative consequences. But the minimum has always been so low as to be of little consequence in general.

Of course there are consequences. Lets talk about restaurant. Is it cheaper to have prep crew to wash and chop salad heads and other veggies into salad or to just buy premaid salad mix and throw it onto plate? What's the difference between two? Labor. If we compare Seattle with some cheaper inner city, I think that guy that chop salad in Seattle is about to lose his job in favor to some other guy that makes premixed salad for less money elsewhere.

I predict food assemblers will relatively soon be replaced by automated machines that can do a better, more consist job. Why pay labor costs for workers that call out sick, show up late, do shoddy work because they don't care when you can expense capital for machines that do none of those things?

When your computer doesn't perform good enough for your work, you upgrade it or replace it with new, faster one. If you have no use of old one, you dispose it. If replacing that assembler with machine is cheaper for employer, though luck for assembler then. He needs to add some upgrades to his set of skills to become relevant again.

That's my point. It sounds like a lot of people don't want to have to put in the effort to remain relevant, however, and want the government to free them of that responsibility.

 

[Ame®icano]

That's the thing, they'll never do that. People like to site that there's little historical evidence that minimum wage laws have negative consequences. But the minimum has always been so low as to be of little consequence in general.

Of course there are consequences. Lets talk about restaurant. Is it cheaper to have prep crew to wash and chop salad heads and other veggies into salad or to just buy premaid salad mix and throw it onto plate? What's the difference between two? Labor. If we compare Seattle with some cheaper inner city, I think that guy that chop salad in Seattle is about to lose his job in favor to some other guy that makes premixed salad for less money elsewhere.

I predict food assemblers will relatively soon be replaced by automated machines that can do a better, more consist job. Why pay labor costs for workers that call out sick, show up late, do shoddy work because they don't care when you can expense capital for machines that do none of those things?

When your computer doesn't perform good enough for your work, you upgrade it or replace it with new, faster one. If you have no use of old one, you dispose it. If replacing that assembler with machine is cheaper for employer, though luck for assembler then. He needs to add some upgrades to his set of skills to become relevant again.

That's my point. It sounds like a lot of people don't want to have to put in the effort to remain relevant, however, and want the government to free them of that responsibility.

But putting effort is hard...

Story time: Old friend of mine had an ugly divorce. They both used to work, but when he started making more money, she stayed at home. During divorce she was demanding alimony to keep her lifestyle that would require over half of his income. When lawyers finally agreed on 60-40 split she argued she can't live on that. He told her that she could find a job to make up the difference. Her question was: "You're expecting me to work?" When judge heard it, he said "I'm expecting you to work" and his final split was 75-25 in his favor. She also got his whole 401k. He moved back to his parents, she bought herself nice house.

 

[Ame®icano]

Washington state employment data:

Link

If 200,000 people can't find job that pays $9.47 that is Washington state current minimum wage, how can they find a job that pays more than that?

Current Seattle unemployment rate is at 4.4%.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Clearly, the phrase "good way" means something very different on your planet than it does on Earth. On Earth, this would be described by the phrase "shitty way".

Passing laws through three levels of legislation, approval by three levels of Executive administrations and validated by multiple levels of the judicial branches is a shitty way to make laws according to you? Sounds like you just hate how democracy works and America in general.

Having government determine what wages should be AT ALL is a shitty way. How did you manage to read this whole thread and not grasp that point of argument at any time? Reading comprehension not your strong point?

Um, that point has only been made in your imagination. The entire thread is based on the lie of the OP about restaurants having to close due to a boost of minimum wages to 15.00 per hour. Total lie that has been proven to be a lie over and over. No restaurants closing for that reason. None. Not one.
Determining a minimum wage in a particular community such as a city is a way for voters to determine a quality of life and standard of living for their community. You seem to belong to that group of folks that believe business and the profit of business should be the determining factor. You object to citizens voting for laws that improve the quality of life in a community or the expression of moral, ethical and religious beliefs. Thankfully we live in a democracy where we allow voters to make at least some of the basic decisions that determine these things. We haven't gone full fascism yet, but thanks to folks like you kleptocracy in making great progress.

No, Chuckles. It may or may not have been proven conclusively to your satisfaction, but it has been made multiple times.

Learn to speak English.

Thank you, by the way, for validating my assertion that you've - allegedly - read the whole thread without comprehending a single thing that was said outside the reverberations of your own little propaganda echo chamber. You clearly understand nothing about who I am, what I believe, what I've SAID, the reasons why I've said them, or what "group" I belong to.

Do not waste my time and screenspace projecting your bullshit kneejerk hate onto me again. Get a microscope, find your mind, and open it enough to hear and contemplate other points of view.

Posting page after page of post in the middle of the night doesn't change the fact that you can not list or give a link to show one single restaurant in Seattle having to close due to implementation of a 15.00 per hour minimum wage. No restaurants were closed for that reason and the minimum wage law is incremental and the 15.00 pay will not come into effect for years. That means everything claimed in the OP is a lie. Your insistence that that the OP's claims have been "proven conclusively" is just the perpetuation of the lie.

1) What possible freaking difference does it make what time of day I happen to be free to read and post to the message board? Can you be any more pointlessly random?

2) Nice subject change. Too bad for you that shit doesn't work on me.

3) I never said it was "proven conclusively", dumbass. I said the point has been MADE. I actually acknowledged that it WASN'T proven conclusively, at least as far as you were concerned. What language is your mother tongue, since it clearly isn't English?

 

[Cecilie1200]

So we can confirm that this whole thread is horsesh*t...

But don't worry this won't make the Hype Right here feel embarrassed in any way...

The MW argument is a valid one regardless of the validity of the impetus of the discussion

Problem is, leftists are such children, living in the moment with an attention span of about five minutes. So they proudly trumpet, "See? Nothing bad has happened yet!" right after they do something heinously stupid, and by the time the effects of their action can actually be seen - because most things simply don't work that fast, and particularly not economics - they've already forgotten what they did, what the predictions were that have now come true, and that there was even an argument at all. By the time you can say, "See? This is the result of what you did, just like I said it would be. NOW defend it", they've already moved the goalpost and made the argument about something else entirely and tried to define the parameters as including the inevitability and rightness of their actions, as though the world has ALWAYS been that way.

The older my youngest child gets, the more he reminds me of debating with leftists. Or vice versa.

 

[Cecilie1200]

That's the thing, they'll never do that. People like to site that there's little historical evidence that minimum wage laws have negative consequences. But the minimum has always been so low as to be of little consequence in general.

Of course there are consequences. Lets talk about restaurant. Is it cheaper to have prep crew to wash and chop salad heads and other veggies into salad or to just buy premaid salad mix and throw it onto plate? What's the difference between two? Labor. If we compare Seattle with some cheaper inner city, I think that guy that chop salad in Seattle is about to lose his job in favor to some other guy that makes premixed salad for less money elsewhere.

I predict food assemblers will relatively soon be replaced by automated machines that can do a better, more consist job. Why pay labor costs for workers that call out sick, show up late, do shoddy work because they don't care when you can expense capital for machines that do none of those things?

When your computer doesn't perform good enough for your work, you upgrade it or replace it with new, faster one. If you have no use of old one, you dispose it. If replacing that assembler with machine is cheaper for employer, though luck for assembler then. He needs to add some upgrades to his set of skills to become relevant again.

That's my point. It sounds like a lot of people don't want to have to put in the effort to remain relevant, however, and want the government to free them of that responsibility.

I have worked in a field that changed drastically thanks to computers. My job didn't become obsolete, but the skills and how they were used became very different, and required ongoing training. I certainly didn't expect improved software and its usage to be suppressed so that I could continue on without any effort or change, nor did I expect someone to pay me a buttload of money for something that could now be done better by a machine. I adapted and found ways to earn the money I wanted to be paid.

 

[hadit]

That's the thing, they'll never do that. People like to site that there's little historical evidence that minimum wage laws have negative consequences. But the minimum has always been so low as to be of little consequence in general.

Of course there are consequences. Lets talk about restaurant. Is it cheaper to have prep crew to wash and chop salad heads and other veggies into salad or to just buy premaid salad mix and throw it onto plate? What's the difference between two? Labor. If we compare Seattle with some cheaper inner city, I think that guy that chop salad in Seattle is about to lose his job in favor to some other guy that makes premixed salad for less money elsewhere.

I predict food assemblers will relatively soon be replaced by automated machines that can do a better, more consist job. Why pay labor costs for workers that call out sick, show up late, do shoddy work because they don't care when you can expense capital for machines that do none of those things?

When your computer doesn't perform good enough for your work, you upgrade it or replace it with new, faster one. If you have no use of old one, you dispose it. If replacing that assembler with machine is cheaper for employer, though luck for assembler then. He needs to add some upgrades to his set of skills to become relevant again.

That's my point. It sounds like a lot of people don't want to have to put in the effort to remain relevant, however, and want the government to free them of that responsibility.

I have worked in a field that changed drastically thanks to computers. My job didn't become obsolete, but the skills and how they were used became very different, and required ongoing training. I certainly didn't expect improved software and its usage to be suppressed so that I could continue on without any effort or change, nor did I expect someone to pay me a buttload of money for something that could now be done better by a machine. I adapted and found ways to earn the money I wanted to be paid.

That is the correct motorcycle. Whole industries come and go, and with them careers. I'm sure there were whip manufacturers that cursed the automobile.

 

[dblack]

I suspect that what will see, rather than obvious spikes in unemployment or inflation, is a gradual gentrification of the communities that implement the higher minimums. Which, of course, liberals will cite as evidence of their "success".

 

[Ame®icano]

I suspect that what will see, rather than obvious spikes in unemployment or inflation, is a gradual gentrification of the communities that implement the higher minimums. Which, of course, liberals will cite as evidence of their "success".

The key is in outsourcing. If is too expensive for Seattle business to have someone assemble widget in Seattle, they will order it from some shop in state with lower wage. The Seattle will still live good on expense of someone else. That's what US is doing to the rest of the world since NAFTA.

 

[Ame®icano]

Problem is, leftists are such children, living in the moment with an attention span of about five minutes. So they proudly trumpet, "See? Nothing bad has happened yet!" right after they do something heinously stupid, and by the time the effects of their action can actually be seen - because most things simply don't work that fast, and particularly not economics - they've already forgotten what they did, what the predictions were that have now come true, and that there was even an argument at all. By the time you can say, "See? This is the result of what you did, just like I said it would be. NOW defend it", they've already moved the goalpost and made the argument about something else entirely and tried to define the parameters as including the inevitability and rightness of their actions, as though the world has ALWAYS been that way.

The older my youngest child gets, the more he reminds me of debating with leftists. Or vice versa.

Everything leftist are doing is short sighted and ignores evident reality.

 

[charwin95]

Clearly, the phrase "good way" means something very different on your planet than it does on Earth. On Earth, this would be described by the phrase "shitty way".

Passing laws through three levels of legislation, approval by three levels of Executive administrations and validated by multiple levels of the judicial branches is a shitty way to make laws according to you? Sounds like you just hate how democracy works and America in general.

Having government determine what wages should be AT ALL is a shitty way. How did you manage to read this whole thread and not grasp that point of argument at any time? Reading comprehension not your strong point?

Um, that point has only been made in your imagination. The entire thread is based on the lie of the OP about restaurants having to close due to a boost of minimum wages to 15.00 per hour. Total lie that has been proven to be a lie over and over. No restaurants closing for that reason. None. Not one.
Determining a minimum wage in a particular community such as a city is a way for voters to determine a quality of life and standard of living for their community. You seem to belong to that group of folks that believe business and the profit of business should be the determining factor. You object to citizens voting for laws that improve the quality of life in a community or the expression of moral, ethical and religious beliefs. Thankfully we live in a democracy where we allow voters to make at least some of the basic decisions that determine these things. We haven't gone full fascism yet, but thanks to folks like you kleptocracy in making great progress.

No, Chuckles. It may or may not have been proven conclusively to your satisfaction, but it has been made multiple times.

Learn to speak English.

Thank you, by the way, for validating my assertion that you've - allegedly - read the whole thread without comprehending a single thing that was said outside the reverberations of your own little propaganda echo chamber. You clearly understand nothing about who I am, what I believe, what I've SAID, the reasons why I've said them, or what "group" I belong to.

Do not waste my time and screenspace projecting your bullshit kneejerk hate onto me again. Get a microscope, find your mind, and open it enough to hear and contemplate other points of view.

Posting page after page of post in the middle of the night doesn't change the fact that you can not list or give a link to show one single restaurant in Seattle having to close due to implementation of a 15.00 per hour minimum wage. No restaurants were closed for that reason and the minimum wage law is incremental and the 15.00 pay will not come into effect for years. That means everything claimed in the OP is a lie. Your insistence that that the OP's claims have been "proven conclusively" is just the perpetuation of the lie.

I am business owner but not in the restaurant business and I do not believe 100% that a restaurant will close due increase of min. wage. Where in the world that a min. wage jump from ? to $15. over night? It's incremental. The sandwich you pay from last year is it the same price today? No. Prices had increased many times over the years but not the min. wage.

 

[Ame®icano]

I am business owner but not in the restaurant business and I do not believe 100% that a restaurant will close due increase of min. wage. Where in the world that a min. wage jump from ? to $15. over night? It's incremental. The sandwich you pay from last year is it the same price today? No. Prices had increased many times over the years but not the min. wage.

I am not talking about restaurant workers only because its not about them. It about minimum wage and everyone affected. I don't wanna repeat what I've said already, so I'll just add few things.

I think this trend may further increase wealth difference. If more manual work is outsourced due to higher wage, more lower paying jobs will leave the Seattle area. Sure, those that are already paid high enough will be OK, so Seattle in general may get through it. Just like SeaTac did it year ago, and they had some problems.

Due to big companies like Boeing and Microsoft, the greater Seattle area already imports an extremely large amount of talent from all across the country, and the world, and then turns around and outsources the low level labor needed to support their industry. Raising the minimum wage in Seattle is just one more step towards further clinching this region's wealthy status.

 

[Ame®icano]

Seattle EMT worker salary today is $34,367 that translates to $15 hourly. Link.

Minimum wage increase could cause increase in hourly pay of others, but I don't think their increase will be as high.

To me its strange to think that food service people will be making almost the same amount as an EMT personnel.

 

[KissMy]

Seattle EMT worker salary today is $34,367 that translates to $15 hourly. Link.

Minimum wage increase could cause increase in hourly pay of others, but I don't think their increase will be as high.

To me its strange to think that food service people will be making almost the same amount as an EMT personnel.

Professionals should also go ask for raises. Inflation has gone through the roof & it's time wages attempted to catch up.

 

[KissMy]

I suspect that what will see, rather than obvious spikes in unemployment or inflation, is a gradual gentrification of the communities that implement the higher minimums. Which, of course, liberals will cite as evidence of their "success".

The working poor will not be pushed out, they will rise out of poverty & rebuild their communities without inflationary government money.

 

[DrDoomNGloom]

I suspect that what will see, rather than obvious spikes in unemployment or inflation, is a gradual gentrification of the communities that implement the higher minimums. Which, of course, liberals will cite as evidence of their "success".

The working poor will not be pushed out, they will rise out of poverty & rebuild their communities without inflationary government money.

ROFLMMFAO. Liberals are addicted to money just like crack cocaine and Magnum Malt Liquor ...............

Be a good hat trick to take those shit holes you have created and rebuild them without money.

By the way there is no government money and private citizen money, your lunatic rant needs to realize there is only one money source and that is the government.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I suspect that what will see, rather than obvious spikes in unemployment or inflation, is a gradual gentrification of the communities that implement the higher minimums. Which, of course, liberals will cite as evidence of their "success".

The working poor will not be pushed out, they will rise out of poverty & rebuild their communities without inflationary government money.

ROFLMMFAO. Liberals are addicted to money just like crack cocaine and Magnum Malt Liquor ...............

Be a good hat trick to take those shit holes you have created and rebuild them without money.

By the way there is no government money and private citizen money, your lunatic rant needs to realize there is only one money source and that is the government.

So . . . stolen money and not-stolen money?

 

[Jarlaxle]

Third World Misery. Hands down the worst miserable shopping experience existing today. I gladly pay more for a peaceful pleasant shopping experience. But hey, enjoy that misery. On the bright side, you'll get more cheap Chinese shit you don't need. Have fun.

Then stay the fuck out. I love Walmart...they sell the same things other stores sell...but for less money. And instead of going to five stores, I can usually get everything on the shopping list (from groceries to oil-change supplies) there.